Charles III's coronation

[Carrot Flower King]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ort-for-royals

Oh looky here! Our lovely, not at all right wing and not at all biased media have been exaggerating the levels of support for Chucky and the whole **** show. No, shirley not! I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!

All that bollocks I was listening to on the Beeb, as there is no other news, must be completely representative and not in any way manner or form manufactured consent. Oh, no!

Have I been sarcastic enough now?

[TragicMonkey]

Originally Posted by GlennB

I see that wankers some true patriots have already started camping on The Mall in the hope of getting a passing glimpse of Chas and Cammy. Twats.

I read this too quickly and missed the penultimate punctuation mark and for an uncomfortable moment thought there was some traditional costume thing for the royal couple.

[The Don]

I have been very surprised at the comparative lack of interest in the coronation. I was expecting that there'd be street parties everywhere, that pretty much every business would be promoting Coronation offers and that every business would be dripping in bunting.

Instead we have comparative disinterest. Our village, like most others round here, isn't bothering to host a coronation event at the village hall. There are a couple of businesses with Coronation-themed window displays in the local town, but that's about it, no real Coronation push. The one prominent exception is the local pub where the management team are ardently pro-royal - they've got a weekend of events (and Mrs Don and I have got a paying gig out of it ).

It's all in stark contrast to the various Jubilee celebrations I remember since 1977.

[Jack by the hedge]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Who, or where, or why, or what, is the Stone of Scone? I wasn't sure if that was 'scon' or 'scone' so looked it up. According to wiki it is neither, it is sku'n in a Scottish accent and a clipped 'n'.

Well of course it's just the name of a place and nothing to do with baked goods. And it's also just a block of local sandstone despite fanciful back-story legends. Before Edward I seized it as a trophy of war I believe the earliest reference we have of it's history is that when John Bailliol was crowned on it that was described as following ancient tradition. If anyone ever wrote down the story of why it's used, that's lost. It's like cargo cult science. Copy what the predecessors did without knowing why they did it. It does now at least symbolise some inheritance from the increasing line of known predecessors.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by The Don

I have been very surprised at the comparative lack of interest in the coronation. I was expecting that there'd be street parties everywhere, that pretty much every business would be promoting Coronation offers and that every business would be dripping in bunting.

...snip...

It's all in stark contrast to the various Jubilee celebrations I remember since 1977.

I'd say there is a fair amount going on around here - a little bit more than last year's jubilee celebrations. But we are in old terms very much a blue rinse area.

[P.J. Denyer]

There's an organised event round here, complete with Elton John impersonator, you couldn't pay me enough to attend. More worryingly the house behind us with a flagpole in the back garden has another flagpole in the front garden and a load of bunting up, this is the house that holds rediculously big (for a moderate sized semi in the middle of a residential area) fireworks displays several times a year, my dog is terrified of fireworks so I guess I'm spending more money at the vet today for calmatives.

[Nessie]

Originally Posted by The Don

I have been very surprised at the comparative lack of interest in the coronation. I was expecting that there'd be street parties everywhere, that pretty much every business would be promoting Coronation offers and that every business would be dripping in bunting.

Instead we have comparative disinterest. Our village, like most others round here, isn't bothering to host a coronation event at the village hall. There are a couple of businesses with Coronation-themed window displays in the local town, but that's about it, no real Coronation push. The one prominent exception is the local pub where the management team are ardently pro-royal - they've got a weekend of events (and Mrs Don and I have got a paying gig out of it ).

It's all in stark contrast to the various Jubilee celebrations I remember since 1977.

There is one pub/restaurant in my area that has put up some flags and bunting. That is one more than I was expecting.

I think the lack of interest in the Coronation is indicative of a disconnect between the public and those in power, as the old power of public school boy politicians and the aristocracy increasingly wanes.

Get rid of a House of Lords second chamber, further reduce the role of the Monarch and stop electing corrupt Old Etonian's who want Parliament to run like one of their archaic clubs.

[malbui]

Because of my accent I'm getting lots of questions at work about the whole coronation thing. I’ve ended up printing a sheet reading ‘Not my king’ and sticking it on my office door.

[Gulliver Foyle]

Originally Posted by Worm

This may help :

https://davidallengreen.com/2021/03/...-written-down/

Our constiution is not a single written, codified document. It is rather a collection of rules, guinelines, and practices that collectively form our consitutional arrangements. (IANAL)

Yes, I know what is purported to be the UK "constitution". Given that none of it can survive the first parliament that opposes the various documents making it up, I would say it doesn't survive scrutiny.

Oh and of the four documents David Green pointed to, two are advisory documents to government, one is the rules fo how MPs conduct themselves in parliament and the last just sets out the current (temporary) roles of the judiciary. Not one of these, nor all of them together, are sufficient to constitute even part of a constitution.

If you want to see a well functioning constitution, just google Bunréach na hÉireann.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle

Yes, I know what is purported to be the UK "constitution". Given that none of it can survive the first parliament that opposes the various documents making it up, I would say it doesn't survive scrutiny.

Oh and of the four documents David Green pointed to, two are advisory documents to government, one is the rules fo how MPs conduct themselves in parliament and the last just sets out the current (temporary) roles of the judiciary. Not one of these, nor all of them together, are sufficient to constitute even part of a constitution.

If you want to see a well functioning constitution, just google Bunréach na hÉireann.

Written constitutions aren't even worth the goat skin they are wrote on. All constitutions stand by the will of the people afterwards agreeing to abide by them.

[bruto]

Originally Posted by Darat

Written constitutions aren't even worth the goat skin they are wrote on. All constitutions stand by the will of the people afterwards agreeing to abide by them.

Or, as we poor sods over here are finding, the will of some people.

[Trebuchet]

Originally Posted by theprestige

The first in the procession to enter Westminster Abbey will be representatives from the Jewish, Sunni and Shiite Muslim, Sikh, Buddhist, Hindu, Jain, Bahai and Zoroastrian communities...

During the service, four peers from the House of Lords — a Muslim, Hindu, Jew and Sikh — will hand to Charles objects of the royal regalia.

https://archive.is/s9YpA (WaPo)

I do appreciate the symbolism of having representatives from religions of all the places once subjugated by the British Empire, leading the way in blessing the coronation of the new monarch.

Does the Sikh get to wear his ceremonial dagger?

[Dave_46]

I saw a poster today on a hoarding just along the road outside West Ruislip station. It was about 1.5m high, an image of Diana as if on a postage stamp, with the words "God save the Queen" on it. Weird.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by Darat

Written constitutions aren't even worth the goat skin they are wrote on. All constitutions stand by the will of the people afterwards agreeing to abide by them.

Ah, the British contempt for a written constituion.
But then,"Muddling along" seems to a basic part of the British Charecter.
Me, I beleiver in the old legal saying "Always get it in writing".

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by Nessie

There is one pub/restaurant in my area that has put up some flags and bunting. That is one more than I was expecting.

I think the lack of interest in the Coronation is indicative of a disconnect between the public and those in power, as the old power of public school boy politicians and the aristocracy increasingly wanes.

Get rid of a House of Lords second chamber, further reduce the role of the Monarch and stop electing corrupt Old Etonian's who want Parliament to run like one of their archaic clubs.

Or make the House of Lords an elected chamber, like the US Senate.
You can make a strong arugment for a second chamber to ,frankly, put a brake on the first house when necessary.

[Blue Mountain]

I was thinking of watching the coronation live (even though I'm 6 hours removed from it, I have a wonky sleep schedule) until I read about the objections of some of Canada's Indigenous peoples. There's certainly no love lost between them the and the Brits who put Canada together, and to them the monarchy is a very visible symbol of the repression they've suffered.

I was a fan of the late Queen Elizabeth. But I'm not a fan of the monarchy itself, especially one as entrenched and self-important as the British one. The idea that someone should be at the top of heap because he popped out of the correct womb in the proper order is extremely outdated.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Does the Sikh get to wear his ceremonial dagger?

Not a dagger, it's a kirpan.

[Vixen]

Originally Posted by dudalb

Or make the House of Lords an elected chamber, like the US Senate.
You can make a strong arugment for a second chamber to ,frankly, put a brake on the first house when necessary.

Sounds great as an idea but think of the cold reality: President Boris Johnson? Nooooooooooooo!

[junkshop]

Originally Posted by dudalb

Or make the House of Lords an elected chamber, like the US Senate.
You can make a strong arugment for a second chamber to ,frankly, put a brake on the first house when necessary.

I am very much in favour of making the HOL an elected body. An unelected house, be it appointed or hereditary, is undeniably anti-democratic. Making it like the US senate? Given what I've seen/read, maybe we could find a better model?

[dudalb]

The US Senate is not working well due to it's stupid rules, but the concpet of a upper house to ,frankly, put a brake on the lower house is a good idea.

[junkshop]

Originally Posted by Vixen

Originally Posted by dudalb

Or make the House of Lords an elected chamber, like the US Senate.
You can make a strong arugment for a second chamber to ,frankly, put a brake on the first house when necessary.

Sounds great as an idea but think of the cold reality: President Boris Johnson? Nooooooooooooo!

There seem to be some steps missing here. How does an elected second house result in a President Johnson?
How does it result in a President anyone? An elected second house does not necessitate a presential republic.

[junkshop]

Originally Posted by dudalb

The US Senate is not working well due to it's stupid rules, but the concpet of a upper house to ,frankly, put a brake on the lower house is a good idea.

I have no argument with this.

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Chuck is a few weeks younger than me, and I plan on another 20 years or so. And he'll have better healthcare, not to mention that both parents were in their late 90's when they passed and his gran was 101.

I take it you've never seen "Macbeth".

[P.J. Denyer]

If an elected head of state retained the symbolic status of our current one then Johnson becoming president might have satisfied his ego without putting him in a position to do so much damage to the country. Anyway, I like to think we might end up with a President Attenborough, Dench or Fry, maybe all three (or President Coleman, if she doesn't consider it a step down after already being Queen).

[P.J. Denyer]

Originally Posted by Craig4

I take it you've never seen "Macbeth".

Hot Potato
Off his Drawers
Pluck to make Amends
Arrgh!

[Skeptic Ginger]

Question for you UKians, if Charles dies before Camilla does she stay Queen? I'm assuming she doesn't so what does she become?

Then you have Wm and Kate, same question, when Wm becomes King and dies before Kate, does Kate stay queen?

Seems like it could get very confusing.

[erwinl]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Question for you UKians, if Charles dies before Camilla does she stay Queen? I'm assuming she doesn't so what does she become?

Then you have Wm and Kate, same question, when Wm becomes King and dies before Kate, does Kate stay queen?

Seems like it could get very confusing.

Wouldn’t she then become dowager queen?

[junkshop]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Question for you UKians, if Charles dies before Camilla does she stay Queen? I'm assuming she doesn't so what does she become?

Then you have Wm and Kate, same question, when Wm becomes King and dies before Kate, does Kate stay queen?

Seems like it could get very confusing.

Queen Camilla, the King Stepmother?

[P.J. Denyer]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Question for you UKians, if Charles dies before Camilla does she stay Queen? I'm assuming she doesn't so what does she become?

Then you have Wm and Kate, same question, when Wm becomes King and dies before Kate, does Kate stay queen?

Seems like it could get very confusing.

Kate would become "Queen Mother" as Queen Elizabeth's mother (Also Queen Elizabeth) did. erminl's suggestion for Camilla sounds like it's almost certainly right, the only precedent that springs to mind is Catherine (or Katherine) Parr who held the title Dowager Queen after Henry died.

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by junkshop

Queen Camilla, the King Stepmother?

Just Queen Stepmother, though I doubt they’d go for that.

[Darat]

They'll just make up another new instant tradition like they did for the queen mother and now for Camilla it will depend on William's whims at the time.

[The Atheist]

Isn't "Queen Mother" an an informal title conferred only because she and the actual queen shared the same name?

Queen Mary remained Queen Mary after the death of King George V. Nobody got confused having two queens.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Isn't "Queen Mother" an an informal title conferred only because she and the actual queen shared the same name?

Queen Mary remained Queen Mary after the death of King George V. Nobody got confused having two queens.

It's all made up, they produce instant traditions on what they want, whenever they want. They are never beholden to past traditions unless they want to be.

[Carrot Flower King]

Originally Posted by junkshop

There seem to be some steps missing here. How does an elected second house result in a President Johnson?
How does it result in a President anyone? An elected second house does not necessitate a presential republic.

it's Monarchist Apologist Argument 2A: if you don't want the royals you MUST want President Whoeverisunpopularnow (it was Tony Blair for ages).

But so many steps, as you say, are missing, beginning with why do we need a head of state? And ignores voting for someone else...

Odd how across the Irish Sea they seem to manage to have a whole bunch of presidents who are viewed positively and are not in any way unpopular ex-politicians...

[zooterkin]

Originally Posted by The Atheist

Isn't "Queen Mother" an an informal title conferred only because she and the actual queen shared the same name?

Queen Mary remained Queen Mary after the death of King George V. Nobody got confused having two queens.

Not according to wikipedia.. Queen Mary preferred not to use the title, but it goes back to 1660, apparently.

Seriously, as much as it matters, I think erwinl is correct, Camilla would just be the queen dowager.

Quote:

The title "queen mother" evolved to distinguish a queen dowager from all other queens when she is also the mother of the reigning sovereign. Thus, upon the death of her husband, King George V, Queen Mary became queen mother, retaining the status throughout the reigns of her sons, Edward VIII and George VI.

The title also distinguishes former queens consort from those who are simply the mother of the current monarch.

[The Don]

We're preparing for our pre-coronation party tomorrow.

I've prepared a resolutely republican playlist and we've made Coronation Chickpeas and vegan Eton Mess (a commentary on the current political situation in the UK). Our guests will be bringing dishes including The Quiche which I can try but Mrs Don and our other vegan guests will have to miss.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Darat

It's all made up, they produce instant traditions on what they want, whenever they want. They are never beholden to past traditions unless they want to be.

??? Of course it is made up. Every royal title in every country throughout the entirety of history has been made up by people. (Unless you think that royalty rules by some sort of divine decree handed down from on high with all titles already in place. )

[catsmate]

Originally Posted by Worm

This may help :

https://davidallengreen.com/2021/03/...-written-down/

Our constiution is not a single written, codified document. It is rather a collection of rules, guinelines, and practices that collectively form our consitutional arrangements. (IANAL)

So what, exactly and in total, constitute the 'constitution' of the UK? Which bits are canon and which are not?

[Darat]

Originally Posted by Steve

??? Of course it is made up. Every royal title in every country throughout the entirety of history has been made up by people. (Unless you think that royalty rules by some sort of divine decree handed down from on high with all titles already in place. )

I was talking about their many claimed "traditions" - most of the time they are anything but traditional - they are simply things they want to do now. A classic example was the current King's investiture as Prince of Wales. They are just invented when they are wanted on the whim of the monarch and their family.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by catsmate

So what, exactly and in total, constitute the 'constitution' of the UK? Which bits are canon and which are not?

Like all constitutions the bits that those holding power say are canon.