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Old 2nd September 2022, 07:27 PM   #121
Stout
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
While the population of the UK is feeling the frankly catastrophic consequences of its governments embargoes against Russia and flying their little yellow and blue flags, gas-dependent European states (for which read "energy companies") are quietly being supplied with Russian LNG (liquid gas) from the Chinese at massively inflated prices.

China-Is-Quietly-Reselling-Its-Excess-Russian-LNG-To-Europe.html

Well, well.
Interesting. Those sanctions are really delivering a bite but with Nordstream 1 shut down Europe has to get their gas from somewhere. Speaking of somewhere I was reading somewhere that Finns have been driving across the border to fill up their cars on cheap Russian gas. That'll look good on their NATO application form.
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Old 2nd September 2022, 11:31 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Interesting. Those sanctions are really delivering a bite but with Nordstream 1 shut down Europe has to get their gas from somewhere. Speaking of somewhere I was reading somewhere that Finns have been driving across the border to fill up their cars on cheap Russian gas. That'll look good on their NATO application form.
I think you'll need to provide a source for that one.

I've searched and there were stories from around 10 years ago about Finns doing this but nothing I could easily find from the last 6 months.
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Old 2nd September 2022, 11:33 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
While the population of the UK is feeling the frankly catastrophic consequences of its governments embargoes against Russia and flying their little yellow and blue flags, gas-dependent European states (for which read "energy companies") are quietly being supplied with Russian LNG (liquid gas) from the Chinese at massively inflated prices.

China-Is-Quietly-Reselling-Its-Excess-Russian-LNG-To-Europe.html

Well, well.
I wonder how reliable that article is.

oilprice.com seems to be from the same stable as zerohedge so I would take their reports with a good pinch of salt.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 12:32 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
Right now I'm choosing to leave my payments where they are, because my faith in British Gas's ability to calculate the correct amount is pretty minimal - and they don't show their work anywhere. My gut feeling is that this figure is wrong, but it probably won't be far out once we get into next year.
Last month I was advised by Shell Energy to increase my payments by £70. Today when I checked my account I was advised to decrease my payments by £100! The issue is, as always, no matter who I'm with, that I build up a large credit over the summer months and they don't like that for some reason.

I'll need it (and always do) as I'll be looking at around £600 per month if my projections are correct (I currently pay around £400 P/M over the winter months).
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Old 3rd September 2022, 02:41 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I think you'll need to provide a source for that one.

I've searched and there were stories from around 10 years ago about Finns doing this but nothing I could easily find from the last 6 months.
It is actually true. People living in the East of Finland (Imatra, Lappenranta) do traditionally pop over to Russia for their petrol. Likewise, the supermarkets in these town do a roaring trade with Russian tourists.

Quote:
The reopening of the border between Russia and Finland on 1 July has seen a resurgence in Finns' refuelling trips to the eastern neighbour.

The ongoing war in Ukraine has not deterred drivers seeking cheaper petrol and diesel as fuel prices have soared well over 2 euros per litre in the past year.

The average price per litre in Finland is up to three times higher than that in Russia.

"It is such a good deal considering current petrol and diesel prices. We have two cars in our family. We can now put the money we save towards some kind of trip," eastern border resident Mirva Sukhanov told Yle after visiting neighbouring Svetogorsk.
YLE

Whilst the UK runs north to south, Finland's breadth is east to west. I am some 500km away, so it doesn't benefit me. For some reason, I never look at petrol prices when I fill up the car, so I have no idea if the price has gone up or down.

The Finnish government yesterday announced help for the increased enrgy prices coming our way. They are going to slash the tax from 24% to 10% between 1 Dec 2022 to 30 April 2023. I guess a 14% cut is real, unlike Liz Truss' suggested 5% cut for the UK.

Some guy in the newspaper reckons his family home will be four times more expensive to run than now.

There is a shortage of toilet paper on the way as the factories are short of production energy. So if you see people hamstering on loo rolls, that is why.

I have already started stocking up for winter before inflation really takes a bite.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 06:41 AM   #126
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Interesting article in the Daily Mail today (Don't judge me! ) with some totally cringe worthy quotes from European officials.

I mean..what did these geniuses think would happen, Russia would just roll over and put all four paws in the air in the face of western sanctions? Psychological warfare? Oh come on.

Canada would like to help you out, really but unfortunately green energy policies have thwarted the construction of LNG export terminals, at least on the east coast however Europe may be able to look forward to receiving some green hydrogen in about 20 years so if Europe can hold on that long, Canada may be able to come to your rescue.

Quote:
At a certain point, one has to drop the passive voice. Canada is not “missing windows” on the energy front. Canadian governments, hand in glove with anti-energy activists, are purposefully nailing those windows shut, then nailing shutters over the windows, then nailing more shutters over the shutters.
Quote:
Shutters on fossil-fuel windows include Bill C-69 (2018), known informally as the No More Pipelines Act, and Bill C-48 (2019), colloquially known as the No More Tankers Act. And the federal carbon tax (2019) alongside new “clean-fuel and clean-electricity standards” and perhaps the shutter to top all shutters “net-zero greenhouse-gas emissions by 2050,” which reaches into plastics, fertilizer and oil and gas.
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Old 3rd September 2022, 07:40 AM   #127
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Yeah, "down for maintenance" obviously doesn't pass the smell test because of course everyone considers the EU/UK/USA and NATO to be at war with Russia.

That said, there seems to be some self-harm being done by the UK and EU with its price-fixing laws. Apparently Spain and Portugal opted out and they anyway get their gas from Morocco and Algeria (according to Spanish friends of mine).

France apparently are going to be switching their nuclear reactors back on because they were "down for maintenance" as well. Though they seem to have been hard hit because of droughts.
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Old 4th September 2022, 03:40 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I wonder how reliable that article is.

oilprice.com seems to be from the same stable as zerohedge so I would take their reports with a good pinch of salt.
Considering who is citing it one should assume that it's either factually incorrect or at least grossly misleading.
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Old 4th September 2022, 08:41 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Yeah, "down for maintenance" obviously doesn't pass the smell test because of course everyone considers the EU/UK/USA and NATO to be at war with Russia.

That said, there seems to be some self-harm being done by the UK and EU with its price-fixing laws. Apparently Spain and Portugal opted out and they anyway get their gas from Morocco and Algeria (according to Spanish friends of mine).

France apparently are going to be switching their nuclear reactors back on because they were "down for maintenance" as well. Though they seem to have been hard hit because of droughts.
Ah yes...the turbine(s) I wonder if those were the same turbines that Canada returned under a special exemption form sanctions that both Zelensky and Ukrainian-Canadians objected to. Shoddy workmanship, sabotage or complete ************?

Europe might just end up turning itself into it's own version of The Hunger Games.
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Old 4th September 2022, 09:11 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Considering who is citing it one should assume that it's either factually incorrect or at least grossly misleading.
I've seen some lame attempts at debunking stories before but that has set a new standard. If you have evidence to prove the story false, present it. The Financial Times article linked to in the oilprice.com is currently paywalled but this isn't

Should be a fairly simple task to prove that China isn't buying gas from Russia, no?

Anyways, who cares, Europe's been spending buckets of money on Russian gas and oil since the start of the invasion. +87 billion Euros to date.
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Old 4th September 2022, 08:38 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Interesting article in the Daily Mail today (Don't judge me! ) with some totally cringe worthy quotes from European officials.

I mean..what did these geniuses think would happen, Russia would just roll over and put all four paws in the air in the face of western sanctions? Psychological warfare? Oh come on.

Canada would like to help you out, really but unfortunately green energy policies have thwarted the construction of LNG export terminals, at least on the east coast however Europe may be able to look forward to receiving some green hydrogen in about 20 years so if Europe can hold on that long, Canada may be able to come to your rescue.
Oh no, fossil fuels are losing their government-mandated/assisted stranglehold, how terrible
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Old 5th September 2022, 05:42 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
The Financial Times article linked to in the oilprice.com is currently paywalled but this isn't
"This is your last free article" What? This is the first time I have visited your site!

(Text fades out just before getting to the good part) "Subscribe to our newsletters. Never miss a story...Register". No thanks.

Quote:
Anyways, who cares, Europe's been spending buckets of money on Russian gas and oil since the start of the invasion. +87 billion Euros to date.
Who cares indeed. China gets cheap gas from Russia because nobody else will buy it, then sells 'some of it' on the spot market. Advantage China. Whether Russia has to sell at a discount or not at all it's still good. Europe will still get off Russian fossil fuels. Pity they didn't do it sooner, but better late than never.
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Old 5th September 2022, 05:45 AM   #133
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At least here in the UK we can breathe a sigh of relief as our new PM has already said how she will deal with this crisis - tax cuts for the wealthiest, that will encourage economic growth. (Please note that is not a joke that is exactly what she has said.)
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Old 5th September 2022, 06:00 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
At least here in the UK we can breathe a sigh of relief as our new PM has already said how she will deal with this crisis - tax cuts for the wealthiest, that will encourage economic growth. (Please note that is not a joke that is exactly what she has said.)
I suppose it makes life easier for a government not interested in governing if they have no tax revenue.

That said, I wonder where the extra £157bn in defence spending is going to come from.
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Old 5th September 2022, 06:38 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
Oh no, fossil fuels are losing their government-mandated/assisted stranglehold, how terrible
,

I know eh. All that whining about "heat or eat" when the wind and solar utopia is just around the corner. What's a few hard winters freezing in the dark while eating bugs when countries like Kirabati are sinking. First world problems I tell ya' however it is a good time to have money.

Let's hope there's robust opposition to those roughly 20 floating LNG terminals Europe is trying to bring in.
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Old 5th September 2022, 08:14 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Us too, but our prices are rising in line with the market as a whole rather than staying the same.

Given that the price of generation for renewables is, if anything, falling, someone in the supply chain will be making a very healthy profit. I expect the generators will be the ones doing best, but the wholesalers and providers may also be significantly increasing their margins.
It's a win/win situation: the providers of renewable energy get a healthy profit instead of eking by, and consumers get the price signal from the market to conserve. Yes, it's bound to be painful at first, but that was always a given; anybody who bought the line that the transition to renewables would not involve sacrifice will be brought face to face with reality this winter.
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Old 6th September 2022, 04:06 AM   #137
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Now it seems highly likely that the UK government's response to the Energy Crisis is to use borrowed money to prop up energy company profits - although other pundits are suggesting that instead there will be in effect enforced loans so that UK consumers will be paying inflated energy prices for decades so that the energy companies get their profits - with interest.

I'm a little surprised that those of us who heat our homes (and in the case of Tory voters, fuel their AGAs) with oil are left to the mercy of the market - the so-called energy price cap only applies to the unit cost or gas and electricity and only to domestic users. I think that a disproportionate percentage of Conservative Party members would heat their homes with oil.

Looking back at my purchase history, I was paying around 25p a litre a couple of years ago (and would have brimmed the oil tank were it not condemned and replaced with one half the size last year) and the last three purchases have been around the 60p a litre mark. The price was as high as £2 a litre in the early days of the Russian invasion of Ukraine but seems to have settled at little under £1 a litre. This is somewhat out of step with the price of oil but I can understand why people are rushing to fill their oil tanks ahead of the winter.
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Old 6th September 2022, 04:15 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
It's a win/win situation: the providers of renewable energy get a healthy profit instead of eking by, and consumers get the price signal from the market to conserve. Yes, it's bound to be painful at first, but that was always a given; anybody who bought the line that the transition to renewables would not involve sacrifice will be brought face to face with reality this winter.
OTOH, we've got several sets of friends (and a village hall) who are ahead of the curve when it comes to that transition. For sure we're in a good position having plenty of land and money for the upfront investment but we know several people (and the aforementioned village hall) who are net generators of electricity over the year and one who thanks to a comparatively efficient house, solar panels, a decent wind turbine and a lot of battery capacity (including 2 EVs) hasn't had to buy any electricity whatsoever for a couple of years.

I admit that Mrs Don and I were complacent and lazy. We failed to follow suit when our neighbours went through three rounds of installing Solar Panels. We could have easily installed a 4kw array on our workshop and another on the flat roof of our extension. While this wouldn't do too much for us on those foggy Welsh winter days, for most of the year it would have been more than we needed to run the house (our typical consumption is around 12-16kwh per day) and we could also charge Mrs Don's car (around 1,000 kwh per year) and run the hot tub.
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Old 6th September 2022, 04:43 AM   #139
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Yes, it looks like, as usual, the Conservative government will choose the option which is most expensive, least effective and lines as many corporate pockets as possible.

Quote:
Soaring household energy bills are expected to be cut by energy companies using government-backed loans.

It is thought energy bills could be frozen at their current level for roughly 18 months under the plans.

Energy firms would use the loans to subsidise customer payments, with them repaid by additions to bills over 10 to 20 years or repaid via future taxation
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62801913

So no windfall taxes to pay for the subsidy, just leave it to the consumer for a couple of decades.

Of course, the more energy you consume, the bigger the benefit to you.

Quote:
However, Dermot Nolan, former chief executive of energy regulator Ofgem, warned that this estimate could be "conservative", and also questioned how much it would benefit the most vulnerable.

"This kind of price freeze means that a multimillionaire will get exactly the same level of protection as everybody else," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
They'll get the same protection but will actually benefit more from a purely financial perspective because they consume far more energy.

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Old 8th September 2022, 01:07 AM   #140
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If today's Times is accurate, the UK Government is going to try to address the demand side of the Energy Crisis by asking really, really, nicely for people to use less energy.

Of course if the price of energy doesn't rise then there'll be much less incentive for people to do so, especially well off people like Mrs Don and me who also tend to use more energy.

IMO the only way to manage energy demand is to actively manage either by letting the price spiral out of control (with all that entails socially and politically) or by having rolling blackouts (with all that entails politically). The UK Government is reluctant to do anything like this because it would require active governance instead of asking people to follow rules - and we all know from Covid how well that turns out, especially when those in charge conspicuously flaunt those rules.
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Old 8th September 2022, 04:32 AM   #141
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Another idea being floated by the government is that nuclear and renewables generators will be offered long-term fixed price contracts at prices below the current spot price for electricity as a way of potentially addressing the huge excess profits that non-gas generators are receiving thanks to the broken UK energy market.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62832029

The way I see it, there are two HUGE problems with this
  • This will work out badly for the public when gas prices, and hence electricity spot prices, eventually come back down. Renewables and nuclear will be guaranteed inflated prices for years or decades
  • It creates a incentive for generators who have both gas and renewables sources to switch off their renewables sources in favour of gas so as to increase their profits
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Old 8th September 2022, 06:23 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
At least here in the UK we can breathe a sigh of relief as our new PM has already said how she will deal with this crisis - tax cuts for the wealthiest, that will encourage economic growth. (Please note that is not a joke that is exactly what she has said.)
No she hasn't really. I can't see where it has been costed out and where the funds are coming from to support this. As I recall from earlier speculation, householders might have to pay it back in some way in later years.

As Kwarteng famously said in an earlier newspaper article, The energy companies are not charities.

I think there is going to be some kind of hedge funding set up specifically for the energy firms as the volatility of the market - due to the Ukraine/Russia situation - means ordinary hedging is becoming unworkable.

How they usually do it is to take a short position on the money markets but it has become so volatile they need to shore up their interests in any way they can.

(For those not sure how hedging works, imagine you have a bill for $1,000 US Dollars which is due for payment in US dollars in 30 days time. Now, you fear that a change in spot rate might mean that it costs you more in sterling than you perhaps have in your account or budgeted for. [And let's face it, generally, a pound today will be worth less than a pound tomorrow.] So you ask your bank for an over-the-counter forward contract which fixes the spot rate at X amount as of the date the bill becomes due. There is a standard fee but at least you know you will pay your bill at the rate you have hedged for with your bank. Of course, you could have been better off and the pound strengthened instead of weakening. So what some do is take out an 'option' which means you can choose to stick with the forward contracted rate or you can take the spot rate as of the time the bill becomes due if it is in your favour. Again, a futures option is more expensive than a straightforward short. What the energy companies have been finding is that volatility - which is measured in terms of Standard Deviation equations from one spot rate to another - is so great, whereby what used to remain level from one day to the next, now fluctuates wildly from hour to hour or even completely unpredictably, making it incredibly difficult to fix the price to pass on to consumers.)

ETA Whoops, I thought you were talking about today's 'package' setting a £2,500 cap pa per household. No word on how it will be paid for.
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Old 8th September 2022, 06:25 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
No she hasn't really.

…snip…
Yes she did - at least a few times during her election campaign.
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Old 8th September 2022, 06:30 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Yes she did - at least a few times during her election campaign.
Soz, was talking at cross purposes. See above.
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Old 8th September 2022, 06:46 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Soz, was talking at cross purposes. See above.
No problem.
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Old 8th September 2022, 07:05 AM   #146
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I should be OK under the new not-a-cap-cap. Especially since I’ll be dead long before it is paid for!
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Old 8th September 2022, 09:06 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
No she hasn't really. I can't see where it has been costed out and where the funds are coming from to support this. As I recall from earlier speculation, householders might have to pay it back in some way in later years.

As Kwarteng famously said in an earlier newspaper article, The energy companies are not charities.

I think there is going to be some kind of hedge funding set up specifically for the energy firms as the volatility of the market - due to the Ukraine/Russia situation - means ordinary hedging is becoming unworkable.

How they usually do it is to take a short position on the money markets but it has become so volatile they need to shore up their interests in any way they can.

(For those not sure how hedging works, imagine you have a bill for $1,000 US Dollars which is due for payment in US dollars in 30 days time. Now, you fear that a change in spot rate might mean that it costs you more in sterling than you perhaps have in your account or budgeted for. [And let's face it, generally, a pound today will be worth less than a pound tomorrow.] So you ask your bank for an over-the-counter forward contract which fixes the spot rate at X amount as of the date the bill becomes due. There is a standard fee but at least you know you will pay your bill at the rate you have hedged for with your bank. Of course, you could have been better off and the pound strengthened instead of weakening. So what some do is take out an 'option' which means you can choose to stick with the forward contracted rate or you can take the spot rate as of the time the bill becomes due if it is in your favour. Again, a futures option is more expensive than a straightforward short. What the energy companies have been finding is that volatility - which is measured in terms of Standard Deviation equations from one spot rate to another - is so great, whereby what used to remain level from one day to the next, now fluctuates wildly from hour to hour or even completely unpredictably, making it incredibly difficult to fix the price to pass on to consumers.)

ETA Whoops, I thought you were talking about today's 'package' setting a £2,500 cap pa per household. No word on how it will be paid for.
Its not impossible for them to hedge, it just becomes more and more expensive to do so given greater market volatility. Someone is always going to sell you a futures contract or an option on one, they're just going to ask more for it. I would think they'd be trading in natural gas futures though, not currency.

ETA: nat gas producers here are having the opposite problem. Their profits are capped because they sold futures contracts to lock in what were thought to be good prices, but they've gone up much more. I'll add them to my prayers tonight <sarcasm in case it wasn't obvious>

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Old 12th September 2022, 02:26 AM   #148
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Interesting energy price comparison seen on Twitter showing the UK cost per kilowatt hour compared to the average EU price. It has become about two and a half times more expensive in the UK.
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Old 12th September 2022, 02:30 AM   #149
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That probably means that in the future it will be 2.5x as expensive for EU grandkids
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Old 12th September 2022, 02:35 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Francesca R View Post
That probably means that in the future it will be 2.5x as expensive for EU grandkids
Why?
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Old 12th September 2022, 02:36 AM   #151
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If the differential is a government subsidy that has to be paid back some day
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Old 12th September 2022, 02:49 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Francesca R View Post
If the differential is a government subsidy that has to be paid back some day
Not necessarily, there are a couple of "quirks" in the UK energy market which tends to drive up prices.
  1. Even though the UK produces half of its own natural gas, the producers are allowed to charge the (currently very high) international wholesale price for it. This is in contrast to, say, the US where producers charge what they can get. This drives up the price of gas - which impacts on both gas and electricity prices
  2. The UK electricity market pays generators the highest marginal price for electricity based on a bid/offer market. Because so much of the UK's electricity is generated from (currently very expensive) gas, that marginal price is determined by the cost of generating from gas which means that nuclear, coal and renewable generators are able to charge many multiples of their cost

So the UK has artificially high gas prices which feed into artificially high electricity prices. It could be quite possible that EU electricity prices genuinely reflect the true cost of generation and little or no government subsidy is required.

Of course the UK government's chosen approach is not to attempt to fix the broken energy market but instead to use tens of billions of pounds of public money to bolster energy company profits whilst at the same time making huge cuts to taxes. I'll be long dead before any of this is paid for by my friends' children and grandchildren.
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Old 12th September 2022, 03:43 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Not necessarily, there are a couple of "quirks" in the UK energy market which tends to drive up prices.
  1. Even though the UK produces half of its own natural gas, the producers are allowed to charge the (currently very high) international wholesale price for it. This is in contrast to, say, the US where producers charge what they can get. This drives up the price of gas - which impacts on both gas and electricity prices
  2. The UK electricity market pays generators the highest marginal price for electricity based on a bid/offer market. Because so much of the UK's electricity is generated from (currently very expensive) gas, that marginal price is determined by the cost of generating from gas which means that nuclear, coal and renewable generators are able to charge many multiples of their cost

So the UK has artificially high gas prices which feed into artificially high electricity prices. It could be quite possible that EU electricity prices genuinely reflect the true cost of generation and little or no government subsidy is required.

Of course the UK government's chosen approach is not to attempt to fix the broken energy market but instead to use tens of billions of pounds of public money to bolster energy company profits whilst at the same time making huge cuts to taxes. I'll be long dead before any of this is paid for by my friends' children and grandchildren.
That's the power of light touch regulation - always makes sure the company profits are protected!
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Old 12th September 2022, 05:36 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Not necessarily [ . . . ]
You could be right. I don't know a lot about domestic energy stuff and wouldn't seek to defend what this government is doing relative to others
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Old 12th September 2022, 08:25 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Not necessarily, there are a couple of "quirks" in the UK energy market which tends to drive up prices.
  1. Even though the UK produces half of its own natural gas, the producers are allowed to charge the (currently very high) international wholesale price for it. This is in contrast to, say, the US where producers charge what they can get. This drives up the price of gas - which impacts on both gas and electricity prices
  2. The UK electricity market pays generators the highest marginal price for electricity based on a bid/offer market. Because so much of the UK's electricity is generated from (currently very expensive) gas, that marginal price is determined by the cost of generating from gas which means that nuclear, coal and renewable generators are able to charge many multiples of their cost
Aren't those two prices the same? The international wholesale price is presumably the market price, and charging what you can get is also presumably the market price.
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Old 12th September 2022, 08:32 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Aren't those two prices the same? The international wholesale price is presumably the market price, and charging what you can get is also presumably the market price.
No, price varies by market. Some forms of energy can't be transported freely enough for there to be one market price.
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Old 12th September 2022, 10:05 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
No, price varies by market. Some forms of energy can't be transported freely enough for there to be one market price.
Exactly, that's why domestic natural gas prices in the US are significantly lower than the international market price, there's a constraint on shipping capacity.
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Old 13th September 2022, 01:24 AM   #158
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As expected, on average the richest people will benefit most from government support when it comes to the energy crisis:

Quote:
Rich households will receive twice as much support aimed at reducing the cost of living than poorer households next year, a think tank has claimed.

The Resolution Foundation said if the government cuts National Insurance and limits energy bill rises, richer homes will get £4,700 in 2023, compared to £2,200 for the poorest.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62882964

Obviously there are poorer people with high fuel bills, but typically rich people have bigger houses and bigger bills.

So the main beneficiaries of the UK Government's schemes are the energy companies and the rich - how's that for levelling up ?
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Old 13th September 2022, 01:54 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
As expected, on average the richest people will benefit most from government support when it comes to the energy crisis:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62882964

Obviously there are poorer people with high fuel bills, but typically rich people have bigger houses and bigger bills.

So the main beneficiaries of the UK Government's schemes are the energy companies and the rich - how's that for levelling up ?
We are in a period of national mourning do you really think it is the time for petty political squabbling........
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Old 13th September 2022, 02:16 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
We are in a period of national mourning do you really think it is the time for petty political squabbling........
I bet Brian will do very well out of the UK Government's scheme, those palaces look big and draughty to me
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