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Old 24th September 2022, 02:43 PM   #241
shuttlt
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
The person who killed leftist Trotsky was a leftist himself. Von Staffenburg, who attempted to assassinate fascist Hitler, was as right-wing as they come. Both had other reasons besides their politics alone to attempt great violence.
If you think Stalin and Trotsky, or Hitler and Von Stauffenberg didn't have profound political differences, or that each assassination attempt wasn't one political faction trying to eliminate another, I don't know what to tell you. This is a type of nuance that would allow pretty much any act of political violence to be dismissed as not in fact political. We could say that Lenin was in fact motivated by revenge at the execution of his brother, so the Russian revolution was not in fact a political act. Who really is motivated by "politics alone" if you dig deep enough? Nobody meets this test. If you have to be motivated by "politics alone" for it to count as political violence, then there is no political violence and never has been.

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Old 24th September 2022, 02:43 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
There's no evidence any of this has been caused BECAUSE they may or may not hold political viewpoints.
The radical notion that anti-trans protesters need to be beaten until they cannot stand doesn't strike you as a political viewpoint? Seems to me that it must be, since the struggle between gendercrits and intersectionalists is a struggle over an inherently political movement, whether they are clashing over women's rights or gay rights.

To be clear, there is nothing wrong (or remotely unusual) with holding and advocating both pro-trans and pro-socialist views:
https://twitter.com/miixxy/status/1409606631936212999
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Old 24th September 2022, 05:31 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
The radical notion that anti-trans protesters need to be beaten until they cannot stand doesn't strike you as a political viewpoint? Seems to me that it must be, since the struggle between gendercrits and intersectionalists is a struggle over an inherently political movement, whether they are clashing over women's rights or gay rights.

To be clear, there is nothing wrong (or remotely unusual) with holding and advocating both pro-trans and pro-socialist views:
https://twitter.com/miixxy/status/1409606631936212999
Interesting, not only does PraxiStudio identify as left on their Etsy Page, they're also selling hammer and sickle imagery as well. I'm sure we're all familiar with how the Russians invaded Ukraine while displaying Soviet imagery which makes the hammer and sickle the modern day equivalent of the swastika and PraxiStudio a hate site.

Looks like we got us some Putinbros here, boys.
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Old 24th September 2022, 08:12 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Interesting, not only does PraxiStudio identify as left on their Etsy Page, they're also selling hammer and sickle imagery as well. I'm sure we're all familiar with how the Russians invaded Ukraine while displaying Soviet imagery which makes the hammer and sickle the modern day equivalent of the swastika and PraxiStudio a hate site.

Looks like we got us some Putinbros here, boys.
I'm guessing you failed to notice that PraxiStudio is an artist in Spain.
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Old 25th September 2022, 03:59 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
The radical notion that anti-trans protesters need to be beaten until they cannot stand doesn't strike you as a political viewpoint? Seems to me that it must be, since the struggle between gendercrits and intersectionalists is a struggle over an inherently political movement, whether they are clashing over women's rights or gay rights.

To be clear, there is nothing wrong (or remotely unusual) with holding and advocating both pro-trans and pro-socialist views:
https://twitter.com/miixxy/status/1409606631936212999
Again the claim I asked for evidence was: "...74-year-old gay rights pioneer Fred Sargeant, who was present at the Stonewall riots in 1969 and who co-founded the first pride march in New York City in 1970, was beaten and robbed by far-left and trans activists at the pride event in Burlington, Vermont on Sunday. Sargeant was holding a sign critical of trans ideology....."
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Old 25th September 2022, 04:53 AM   #246
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Possibly they were moderate centrist trans activists who aren't trying to enact progressive reforms?
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Old 25th September 2022, 07:48 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Interesting, not only does PraxiStudio identify as left on their Etsy Page, they're also selling hammer and sickle imagery as well. I'm sure we're all familiar with how the Russians invaded Ukraine while displaying Soviet imagery which makes the hammer and sickle the modern day equivalent of the swastika and PraxiStudio a hate site.

Looks like we got us some Putinbros here, boys.
Trump is here? Where? He is the biggest Putin boy after all
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Old 25th September 2022, 08:04 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Possibly they were moderate centrist trans activists who aren't trying to enact progressive reforms?
The evidence being asked for is evidence that he was assaulted and robbed by far left activists, you know the claim in the article being used as evidence of violence from the left.

You keep replying to the request for evidence with non sequitur after non sequitur.
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Old 25th September 2022, 12:19 PM   #249
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Alleged "leftie" Shannon Brandt's neighbors have spoken out about his behavior. Nowhere do they mention that Brandt was a Democrat, liberal, progressive, or "leftie". In fact, they claim that it was alcohol and mental health issues, not politics, that was behind the incident. This is from Conservative Fighters, not some 'liberal' site. MediaBias/Fact Check rates them "right biased". If there was any evidence Brandt was a 'leftie', Conservative Fighters would have said so. I think we can safely eliminate this incident as "violence from the Left".
Quote:
Neighbors of the North Dakota man who allegedly admitted to mowing down 18-year-old Cayler Ellingson with an SUV describe Shannon Brandt as being “nuts his whole life” and someone who had mental health conditions.
Quote:
When Brandt is drunk, the neighbor alleged, he goes on “rampages.”

Four of Brandt’s neighbors agreed that his mental health contributed to the incident, and said they don’t believe the incident was motivated by politics.
Quote:
Speaking about the incident, the neighbor alleged that Brandt’s accusation of Ellingson being part of a “Republican extremist group” was an excuse, and not the reason he allegedly hit the teenager.
Quote:
According to documents obtained by Fox News Digital, Brandt has had prior arrests.

He was arrested for unlawful possession of alcohol and fleeing a peace officer on foot in October 2006, and was also arrested for a DUI with actual physical control in February 2002, according to records.
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Old 25th September 2022, 12:25 PM   #250
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Of course, Trump is whining about the Brandt incident not being carried by the MSM and falsely claiming Brandt is a "radical left maniac":

Quote:
"Just recently, a young 18-year-old man from North Dakota … was targeted and killed, run down in cold blood with an SUV by a radical left maniac," Trump said at a rally in North Carolina Friday night. "This guy ran him down and not one mainstream media network has even mentioned this horrible crime. Think of it now. Think of it the other way. Think of it the other way. Supposing a mad person ran down somebody on the other side, it would be the biggest story you've ever seen. It's a disgrace."
Quote:
"You people should be ashamed of yourselves. You should be ashamed of yourself," Trump continued. "And our hearts go out to the parents and the friends. This young boy, this was a young man. Wonderful, with a great future. And I'm just telling you, just so handsome and so beautiful and so great. And he got run down by a radical left nut job here."
It's a disgrace all right...but the disgrace is not the MSM's, but Trump's and those like him who are spreading a lie.
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Old 25th September 2022, 07:33 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The evidence being asked for is evidence that he was assaulted and robbed by far left activists, you know the claim in the article being used as evidence of violence from the left.
You seem to believe this man was assaulted by trans activists carrying trans flags but that somehow they weren't activists from the left. What you may be missing is that here in the U.S. trans activism is coming almost entirely from the left. You won't meet someone doing trans activism from, say, libertarian premises. It's always bound up with the intersectionalist project, which is itself born from critical theory, which was always a project of the left.
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Old 26th September 2022, 02:18 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
You seem to believe this man was assaulted by trans activists carrying trans flags but that somehow they weren't activists from the left. What you may be missing is that here in the U.S. trans activism is coming almost entirely from the left. You won't meet someone doing trans activism from, say, libertarian premises. It's always bound up with the intersectionalist project, which is itself born from critical theory, which was always a project of the left.
I don't believe anything at the moment - I'm waiting for you or anyone else to supply evidence for the claim that was made.

Once I have some evidence then I'll be able to come to a conclusion or belief.
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Old 26th September 2022, 05:20 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I don't believe anything at the moment - I'm waiting for you or anyone else to supply evidence for the claim that was made.
Had the assailants been carrying flags consistently associated with right-wing activism (e.g. Thin Blue Line flags) I don't think you'd have so much trouble making the inference from flags to the flag-bearers' place on the political spectrum.
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Old 26th September 2022, 05:54 AM   #254
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Yes, political violence by the Left is a VERY real and dangerous phenomenon.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE






Edited by Agatha:  Edited to shrink page-stretchy image

Last edited by Agatha; 26th September 2022 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 26th September 2022, 07:37 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Yes, political violence by the Left is a VERY real and dangerous phenomenon.
Mayhem 5+ years ago. No shots fired, no deaths, no serious injuries. How incredibly weak this VERY dangerous phenomenon is.

It's fortunate that antifa doesn't commit mass murders, nor plot to kidnap governors, nor burn synagogues, nor plot to assassinate Biden, nor violently attempt to overthrow democracy. It's also fortunate that elected leaders don't brazenly support antifa.

Maybe you should contact the FBI and ask them to categorize antifa as a terrorist group, ala Qanon, what with the threat being so VERY real.
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Old 26th September 2022, 01:10 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
You seem to believe this man was assaulted by trans activists carrying trans flags but that somehow they weren't activists from the left. What you may be missing is that here in the U.S. trans activism is coming almost entirely from the left. You won't meet someone doing trans activism from, say, libertarian premises. It's always bound up with the intersectionalist project, which is itself born from critical theory, which was always a project of the left.
Ah, yes, trans activism is so inherently left wing that, say, a trans activist not only being right wing but literally running as a GOP candidate would never happen...

Oh, wait, yeah...you're assuming your conclusions again.
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Old 26th September 2022, 01:48 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Yes, political violence by the Left is a VERY real and dangerous phenomenon.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.T...Eo&pid=Api&P=0



Edited by Agatha:  Edited to shrink page-stretchy image
This is just pathetic. The first photo is from a protest riot in ITALY on May 1, 2015
The second photo is from a protest riot in FRANCE on May 1, 2017.

You do realize Italian and French politics have zero to do with US political violence, don't you? Maybe not. It was intellectually dishonest for you to present those two photos without revealing they have no connection to US politics.
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Old 26th September 2022, 01:49 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Yes, political violence by the Left is a VERY real and dangerous phenomenon.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.T...Eo&pid=Api&P=0



Edited by Agatha:  Edited to shrink page-stretchy image
That's ACORN, who are not leftist but anti-capitalist anarchists. They actually despise "the left" as much as "the right". And the images are from Milan over 5 years ago.

So double fail there.

See, this is another example of tying what people look like or have in their hands as an indicator of their politics. It's usually a very poor indicator.

ETA: ninja'd twice
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Old 26th September 2022, 02:17 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The evidence being asked for is evidence that he was assaulted and robbed by far left activists, you know the claim in the article being used as evidence of violence from the left.

None of them were carrying nazi flags or insignia, were they? You have to be aware that someone else’s Overton window is not necessarily in the same place as yours.
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Old 26th September 2022, 02:23 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
This is just pathetic. The first photo is from a protest riot in ITALY on May 1, 2015
The second photo is from a protest riot in FRANCE on May 1, 2017.

You do realize Italian and French politics have zero to do with US political violence, don't you? Maybe not. It was intellectually dishonest for you to present those two photos without revealing they have no connection to US politics.
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Mayhem 5+ years ago. No shots fired, no deaths, no serious injuries. How incredibly weak this VERY dangerous phenomenon is.

It's fortunate that antifa doesn't commit mass murders, nor plot to kidnap governors, nor burn synagogues, nor plot to assassinate Biden, nor violently attempt to overthrow democracy. It's also fortunate that elected leaders don't brazenly support antifa.

Maybe you should contact the FBI and ask them to categorize antifa as a terrorist group, ala Qanon, what with the threat being so VERY real.
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
That's ACORN, who are not leftist but anti-capitalist anarchists. They actually despise "the left" as much as "the right". And the images are from Milan over 5 years ago.

So double fail there.

See, this is another example of tying what people look like or have in their hands as an indicator of their politics. It's usually a very poor indicator.

ETA: ninja'd twice
You guys are being unfair to Herc. Surely France and Italy are left of, say, Japan?
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Old 26th September 2022, 02:27 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You guys are being unfair to Herc. Surely France and Italy are left of, say, Japan?
Depends on if you're standing on the North Pole or the South Pole.
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Old 26th September 2022, 03:12 PM   #262
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More visual evidence of leftist political violence:






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Old 26th September 2022, 03:36 PM   #263
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Yet more visual evidence of violence on the left.


It's obvious they're (((lefties))).
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Old 26th September 2022, 04:58 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Ah, yes, trans activism is so inherently left wing that, say, a trans activist not only being right wing but literally running as a GOP candidate would never happen...
Oh yeah she's definitely accepted by the movement as a trans activist. My bad.
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Old 26th September 2022, 06:17 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Oh yeah she's definitely accepted by the movement as a trans activist. My bad.
Completely unlike others wanting trans people to be neutered, "reassigned" or simply eradicated.
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Old 27th September 2022, 01:17 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Interesting, not only does PraxiStudio identify as left on their Etsy Page, they're also selling hammer and sickle imagery as well. I'm sure we're all familiar with how the Russians invaded Ukraine while displaying Soviet imagery which makes the hammer and sickle the modern day equivalent of the swastika and PraxiStudio a hate site.

Looks like we got us some Putinbros here, boys.
Putin has always had a following on the left; I guess they think he is still a Communist at heart.
One thing Putin is good at is finding support from both political extremes.
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Old 27th September 2022, 04:57 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Putin has always had a following on the left; I guess they think he is still a Communist at heart.
One thing Putin is good at is finding support from both political violent extremes.
Putin learned his bovver-boy tactics when he was in the KGB, an arm of the then USSR which was not really "left" so much as "an entrenched criminal gang using Lenin as an excuse for everything". First lesson he learned: How to be a really nasty **** 101.

His university, so to speak, was the St Petersburg's crime scene in the 90's. As city mayor, he learned how to contact, subjugate and control various crime factions with dreadful reputations. His allies and standover krue included some pretty heavy motor cycle gangs involved in prostitution and drugs and murder. Could not be more pro-right than that if you tried.

So Putin is neither "right" nor "left", politically. He is totally in favour of the Putin Party, membership: one. Its motto: Whatever is good for Putin is good for Putin. So don't **** it up, just give it to him or your head will be in a horse's bed tomorrow morning. No wonder Donny didn't want his conversation with Pootie recorded. The abject begging would have been mortifying.

By the way, he speaks English quite well. He just refuses to do so.
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Old 27th September 2022, 05:12 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Oh yeah she's definitely accepted by the movement as a trans activist. My bad.
Oh my goodness, you really believe that someone can't be an activist unless all the other activists for that movement like and accept them? That's...astoundingly naive.
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Old 27th September 2022, 05:47 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Yet more visual evidence of violence on the left.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2286992728.jpg

It's obvious they're (((lefties))).
Nonsense, you should be showing images of the Marx(ist) brothers!
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Old 27th September 2022, 07:39 AM   #270
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More violence on the left with the left:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg mtko.jpg (54.3 KB, 6 views)
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Old 28th September 2022, 03:35 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Putin has always had a following on the left; I guess they think he is still a Communist at heart.
One thing Putin is good at is finding support from both political extremes.
Yes, I've run into a few far lefties, people who like to complain that the majority of the population of former Soviet countries long to return to communism and the supposed stability and security it provided. In 2022, it's best to keep your mouth shut about that given how the hammer and sickle is currently being used. Go pro Cuba or try to float the idea that things in North Korea aren't really as bad as the western mainstream media wants us to think.
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Old 29th September 2022, 02:51 PM   #272
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I may've finally found an incontrovertible example of left-on-left violence:
https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/...n_flag_to.html

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Old 29th September 2022, 11:05 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I may've finally found an incontrovertible example of left-on-left violence:
https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/...n_flag_to.html

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And?
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:30 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I provided evidence that the people encouraging such attacks (PraxiStudios) are self-identified leftists.
No, you didn't.
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:33 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
What on earth are you on about?
Trying to distract from his/her inability to support their previous assertions with evidence.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:36 AM   #276
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I love how this thread is mostly leftists denying that leftist violence exists. History sure says otherwise.
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:37 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
<snippage>
Is there some reason you're quoting from a gossip rag and a climate-change denialist to try and support your claims?
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:39 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
We also don't have any evidence that this beat down of the old man wasn't carried out by deep drag undercover psyops proudboys looking to make TRAs look bad and reinforce the heterofascist patriarchy either.

So, unable to support your previous claims with facts and evidence you're going to randomly through words around. Again.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:42 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
This article on the Brandt charge for killing Ellingson being "leftist violence" is exactly what we've seen happening in this thread: people jumping to conclusions with little to no evidence that Brandt is a 'leftist'.



The problem with this is that: Brandt never said any of that and was charged with vehicular homicide after posting a $50K bond. Brandt said he was afraid that Ellingson was calling people to come attack him and that's why he ran him over. Whether this is what he actually believed we can't know, but Brandt never said he hit Ellingson because he was a Republican, extremist or not.

"Pay Attention to ME!" Ted Cruz:





No evidence Brandt is a 'leftist' and he never said he ran down Ellingson because he was a Republican. The irony of Cruz accusing Dems of "hateful rhetoric" bearing fruit after Jan.6 is off the charts.

These are the things we don't know that must be answered before this incident can be claimed as "leftist violence":



He was drinking as he admitted and which his blood alcohol level proved. He was also charged with DUI.

Highway Patrol Captain Bryan Niewind said:"There has been no corroboration that this was even politically motivated at all." No witnesses have verified a political argument took place.
You mean the conservatives/rightists are lying and making things up?
How unsurprising.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 30th September 2022, 12:45 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
If you think Stalin and Trotsky, or Hitler and Von Stauffenberg didn't have profound political differences, or that each assassination attempt wasn't one political faction trying to eliminate another, I don't know what to tell you. This is a type of nuance that would allow pretty much any act of political violence to be dismissed as not in fact political. We could say that Lenin was in fact motivated by revenge at the execution of his brother, so the Russian revolution was not in fact a political act. Who really is motivated by "politics alone" if you dig deep enough? Nobody meets this test. If you have to be motivated by "politics alone" for it to count as political violence, then there is no political violence and never has been.
What has this drivel go to do with anything?

Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I'm guessing you failed to notice that PraxiStudio is an artist in Spain.
That would require more effort than random googling.

Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
The radical notion that <snip>
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
<snip>
Still unable to support your claims?
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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