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Tags DeSantis , electioneering , florida , immigration

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Old 25th September 2022, 04:01 AM   #481
Warp12
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Why would I want to go to poverty-stricken places?
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
To expand your horizons! To push out of your comfort zone! To make an effort to learn something about the world you live in by seeing it first hand!

Feel free to visit my share of poverty-stricken ******** countries. I also have zero interest in wading through cesspools so that I can have a better understanding of excrement. I don't need to do either to know that these migrants have it much better in TX, FL, or MA than they did in Venezuela. It is the liberals here and elsewhere whining about their "mistreatment", not me.

Being a part of this event seems to have been quite the windfall for them.
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Old 25th September 2022, 04:44 AM   #482
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Why would I want to go to poverty-stricken places? The point was, the US is a much better destination than the country these migrants came from. Whether you are in TX, FL, or MA. Only liberals are pretending these migrants are experiencing ultimate hardship due to the actions DeSantis. Quite the opposite is true.

You are just reinforcing my point.
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
To expand your horizons! To push out of your comfort zone! To make an effort to learn something about the world you live in by seeing it first hand!

No, I am giving you opportunities to show everyone here just exactly who you are.
And well done, too smartcooky.

Warp's argument seems to be that cruelty of herding immigrants around the country for DeSantis' political gain is negated because the Central Americans so abused where herded around in a more affluent country.
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Old 25th September 2022, 04:56 AM   #483
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Being a part of this event seems to have been quite the windfall for them.
I one way, yes.

Third Reich Rick forgot he was working his stunt in a country of laws and that when he harmed these immigrants he left himself and his administration open to a civil suit.

Since you are down there in Florida it is likely your tax dollars will be used to defend your state should it be dragged into civi court.

Thanks in advance, Warp.
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Old 25th September 2022, 06:39 AM   #484
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Below are quotes from US News & World Report. It illustrates how DeSantis' actions in flying migrants to Martha's Vineyard was essentially a political stunt. It was designed to garner massive publicity for Ron DeSantis and get him the support of trump's base. On those grounds it seems to have worked. Everybody's talking about Ron DeSantis and that seems to have been the whole idea.
Quote:
The Center for Immigration Studies, which advocates for restrictions, keeps an extensive list of “sanctuary” jurisdictions, which, by its definition, limit cooperation with federal immigration authorities. They include Boston and seven other Massachusetts cities. None of the towns in Martha's Vineyard are on the list.

DeSantis used a state program in which migrants deemed “unauthorized aliens" can be moved “from Florida,” though the governor has acknowledged the flights originated in Texas. They stopped first in Florida, before going to Martha's Vineyard, but DeSantis has not emphasized that. Instead, he maintains that the two flights were a legitimate use of funds because the migrants otherwise would have aimed to go to Florida, though he offered no evidence of that and did not say how migrants might have been vetted. Link to US News report
The irony is, the program DeSantis used to pay for the flights was designed to remove unauthorized aliens from Florida. First, the migrants on the flight seem to be legally authorized to remain in the United States pending the remediation of their asylum request. Second, they weren't in Florida. DeSantis brought them to Florida.

Finally, DeSantis has been asked to more fully explain his actions but so far has refused to do so. Sound familiar?
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Old 25th September 2022, 06:52 AM   #485
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Why would I want to go to poverty-stricken places? The point was, the US is a much better destination than the country these migrants came from. Whether you are in TX, FL, or MA. Only liberals are pretending these migrants are experiencing ultimate hardship due to the actions DeSantis. Quite the opposite is true.

You are just reinforcing my point.
Nobody here has suggested the hardship is "ultimate." Saying one thing is less nasty than another is not the same thing, by far, as saying that it is therefore good enough.

The action in this case was, I believe, ill advised, stupid political posturing, and, like your own comments, prejudicial and disparaging of the lives of others. The fact that we could have done even worse does not make it good.
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Old 25th September 2022, 06:59 AM   #486
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It seems to be a right wing position that certain types of country are terrible places where people are cruelly oppressed, but perfectly OK to send people back to.
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Old 25th September 2022, 07:15 AM   #487
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Why would I want to go to poverty-stricken places? The point was, the US is a much better destination than the country these migrants came from. Whether you are in TX, FL, or MA. Only liberals are pretending these migrants are experiencing ultimate hardship due to the actions DeSantis. Quite the opposite is true.

You are just reinforcing my point.
Right. Morally speaking, it's okay to abuse immigrants just so long as you don't make their lives in the US worse than their lives in their home country. See, so long as they have a net positive, you may do with them what you will.

That's ethics, that is.

So, lie to them about opportunities in Boston and then fly them to Martha's Vineyard. Let them fend for themselves there or, if they're lucky, rely on the kindness of others. What does it matter? Still better than Venezuela and it scores DeSantis political points, so it really is an admirable move.
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Old 25th September 2022, 07:33 AM   #488
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Given that De Santis probably went to school in Florida, perhaps it's just poor reading comprehension. He thought the tired and poor were supposed to do their huddling in Mass.
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Old 25th September 2022, 07:34 AM   #489
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Given that De Santis probably went to school in Florida, perhaps it's just poor reading comprehension. He thought the tired and poor were supposed to do their huddling in Mass.
He went to Harvard. He's evil, not stupid.
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Old 25th September 2022, 10:59 AM   #490
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Let's face it.

Trump, DeSantis and our resident apologist have rejected kindness, compassion, truth and justice in favor of whatever mean, lying, unfair schlock sticks against the wall.

This is un-American, un-Christian (pick any religion you want and it's "un") and runs 100% counter to the best of American tradition.
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Old 25th September 2022, 11:32 AM   #491
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I'm reminded of what Maya Angelou said: "When people show you who they are, believe them the first time." We saw this with Trump, DeSantis, Abbott, MTG, Boebert, Graham, Cruz and a whole host of (compassionate) conservatives. Well, I believe them.
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Old 25th September 2022, 11:42 AM   #492
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Nobody here has suggested the hardship is "ultimate." Saying one thing is less nasty than another is not the same thing, by far, as saying that it is therefore good enough.
This is typical of restrictive black and white thinking. They do not see shades of gray in a world that is overwhelmingly shades of gray.

As Anna Navarro said today, the party that repeatedly tells us how horrible communists/socialists are and use it to fear monger is the same party that rejects those fleeing from that very thing.

Quote:
The action in this case was, I believe, ill advised, stupid political posturing, and, like your own comments, prejudicial and disparaging of the lives of others. The fact that we could have done even worse does not make it good.
Although all of the above is true, it doesn't matter when the objective is to trigger liberal tears to drink.
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Old 25th September 2022, 12:06 PM   #493
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Why would I want to go to poverty-stricken places? The point was, the US is a much better destination than the country these migrants came from. Whether you are in TX, FL, or MA. Only liberals are pretending these migrants are experiencing ultimate hardship due to the actions DeSantis. Quite the opposite is true.

You are just reinforcing my point.
Come to my beautiful Guatemala for a week. You would be amazed at how welcoming and kind people are, even to someone like you. Might change your perspective. The kindest, hardest working people in the world... and they would welcome you with no questions asked even after what the US helped do to this country. Actually, that is another fact that people forget. Many of the Latin American countries were either directly or indirectly destabilized by the US, thus putting strain on weakened central governments and on economies, meaning that people often have far less chance to prosper and making the US a destiniation for many to achieve dreams that were **** on by the US in past generations.
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Old 25th September 2022, 12:09 PM   #494
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
...when the objective is to trigger liberal tears to drink.
I saw a very good response to this kind of thing on another message board -- every board seems to have a couple posters whose main purpose is to trigger 'the libs' -- and am copying it below.

Quote:
If you've built a personality around gleefully “offending liberals,” here's what you need to know: we aren't offended. You haven't hurt our feelings or made us cry. You sound like children to us, and we're sick of responding over and over to your infuriatingly stupid talking points, but we keep doing it because people's lives might literally be at stake if the wrong kind of idiocy is allowed to spread too far. You're not erudite debaters “owning the libs.” You're the rotten annoying little kids kicking the backs of our seats.
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Old 25th September 2022, 12:27 PM   #495
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
I saw a very good response to this kind of thing on another message board -- every board seems to have a couple posters whose main purpose is to trigger 'the libs' -- and am copying it below.



That about sums it up!
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Old 25th September 2022, 01:01 PM   #496
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
I saw a very good response to this kind of thing on another message board -- every board seems to have a couple posters whose main purpose is to trigger 'the libs' -- and am copying it below.




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Old 25th September 2022, 01:14 PM   #497
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Maybe is was brought up earlier, but have grass roots Republicans recognized the irony of GOP politicians spending large amounts of money to keep those "undesirable illegal aliens" in the USA instead of deporting them?

I personally understand that people flown to Martha's Vineyard are currently legally in the USA. But the people who support DeSantis are probably quite certain that they are here illegally.
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Old 25th September 2022, 01:18 PM   #498
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I personally understand that people flown to Martha's Vineyard are currently legally in the USA. But the people who support DeSantis are probably quite certain that they are here illegally.

Technically, they aren't here illegally. But that is only because they are granted a special exception because they migrated from Venezuela, and we won't deport them. Unlike many other illegals, who don't get a pass. It must suck to be a Mexican caught at the border and deported, while these Venezuelans get put on US soil to seek asylum.
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Old 25th September 2022, 01:41 PM   #499
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Technically, they aren't here illegally.
It's not 'technically'; a person is either here legally or not. They are.


Quote:
But that is only because they are granted a special exception because they migrated from Venezuela, and we won't deport them.
As are several others:
Quote:
Countries Currently Designated for TPS


Afghanistan
Burma (Myanmar)
Cameroon
El Salvador
Haiti
Honduras
Nepal
Nicaragua
Somalia
Sudan
South Sudan
Syria
Ukraine
Venezuela
Yemen

Quote:
Unlike many other illegals, who don't get a pass. It must suck to be a Mexican caught at the border and deported, while these Venezuelans get put on US soil to seek asylum.
You seem unaware of WHY this is:

Quote:
The Secretary may designate a country for TPS due to the following temporary conditions in the country:

Ongoing armed conflict (such as civil war)
An environmental disaster (such as earthquake or hurricane), or an epidemic
Other extraordinary and temporary conditions
Mexico does not fall into any of the above categories.
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Old 25th September 2022, 02:09 PM   #500
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Technically, they aren't here illegally. But that is only because they are granted a special exception because they migrated from Venezuela, and we won't deport them. Unlike many other illegals, who don't get a pass. It must suck to be a Mexican caught at the border and deported, while these Venezuelans get put on US soil to seek asylum.
Yeah, those Venezuelans have it made. Imagine you were a middle class business owner who lost everything because your tin-horn dictator had continued the disastrous economic policies of his predecessor and had tanked the economy so badly that you and most everyone else lost everything. Then imagine that you got to experience having over 20% of the murders in your now crime ridden country committed by the police, and the government being more concerned with hunting down anyone who criticizes them than with dealing with the fact that there's just no ******* food. Imagine deciding that your kids are in so much danger where you live that it's worth the risk of walking through seven countries to get to the U.S., all the while praying that your wife and daughter don't get raped by smugglers, or that you aren't just murdered outright and robbed of what little savings you could bring with.

They sure have a sweet deal.
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Old 25th September 2022, 02:26 PM   #501
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
Yeah, those Venezuelans have it made. Imagine you were a middle class business owner who lost everything because your tin-horn dictator had continued the disastrous economic policies of his predecessor and had tanked the economy so badly that you and most everyone else lost everything. Then imagine that you got to experience having over 20% of the murders in your now crime ridden country committed by the police, and the government being more concerned with hunting down anyone who criticizes them than with dealing with the fact that there's just no ******* food. Imagine deciding that your kids are in so much danger where you live that it's worth the risk of walking through seven countries to get to the U.S., all the while praying that your wife and daughter don't get raped by smugglers, or that you aren't just murdered outright and robbed of what little savings you could bring with.

They sure have a sweet deal.

I think I have already made it pretty clear that I don't care much about the plight of these people. I especially don't see any reason to dump them on our streets, poorly vetted, and potentially diseased. This country has its own poverty and homelessness issues, among others, that need addressing. So sorry if I don't cry a river when some illegals with a special exception get flown to Martha's Vineyard.
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Old 25th September 2022, 02:43 PM   #502
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I think I have already made it pretty clear that I don't care much about the plight of these people.
Crystal clear.

Quote:
I especially don't see any reason to dump them on our streets, poorly vetted, and potentially diseased. This country has its own poverty and homelessness issues, among others, that need addressing. So sorry if I don't cry a river when some illegals with a special exception get flown to Martha's Vineyard.
What part of "they are not here illegally" are you not understanding? You may not like that the several countries I quoted and cited above have TPS, but that doesn't change the fact they are here legally.
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Old 25th September 2022, 02:53 PM   #503
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I think I have already made it pretty clear that I don't care much about the plight of these people. I especially don't see any reason to dump them on our streets, poorly vetted, and potentially diseased. This country has its own poverty and homelessness issues, among others, that need addressing. So sorry if I don't cry a river when some illegals with a special exception get flown to Martha's Vineyard.
The usual.

Having been outted, our poster pretends not to care any which way or the other about the folks he, a few days ago, callously said needed to be sent home "without regard for their well being".

How very warped!

One suspects that our poster has made his "I'm done talking about this" statement and will be moving on.

But I could be wrong.
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Old 25th September 2022, 03:02 PM   #504
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I think I have already made it pretty clear that I don't care much about the plight of these people.
Which makes your attempts at virtue signalling and moral shaming of liberals and atheists elsewhere all the more amusing.
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Old 25th September 2022, 03:53 PM   #505
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Mainstream GOP and conservative sentiment being what it is, do you all think it will be a synagogue or grocery store that gets a right wing terrorist attack this time?
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Old 25th September 2022, 03:55 PM   #506
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Mainstream GOP and conservative sentiment being what it is, do you all think it will be a synagogue or grocery store that gets a right wing terrorist attack this time?
Anywhere that there are Jews, Mudpeople or Children will be targets.
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Old 25th September 2022, 04:58 PM   #507
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Not fair for all these migrants to become the burden of small border towns. Federal govt. should take them and distribute them around the country, so we all share the load and the work.
Now it's all migrants? "Migrants" are definitely not confined to border towns and are mostly free people who can go anywhere they want. You've presented no evidence that they are even a burden.
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Old 25th September 2022, 05:16 PM   #508
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Originally Posted by arayder View Post
The usual.

Having been outted, our poster pretends not to care any which way or the other about the folks he, a few days ago, callously said needed to be sent home "without regard for their well being".

How very warped!

One suspects that our poster has made his "I'm done talking about this" statement and will be moving on.

But I could be wrong.
Indeed.

When it comes to the GOP and their supporters, cruelty isn't a bug, its a feature. Cruelty is the ******* point!
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Old 25th September 2022, 06:14 PM   #509
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Crystal clear.



What part of "they are not here illegally" are you not understanding? You may not like that the several countries I quoted and cited above have TPS, but that doesn't change the fact they are here legally.
It's obvious that he thinks they should be illegal, and agreement about whether what he thinks is what is true is a technicality.
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Old 25th September 2022, 07:57 PM   #510
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Desantis' whole stunt was based on the assumption that "The left is just as racist I am and once they see a bunch of brown people show up they will kick them out SO FAST!" When that didn't happen, they just made up a lie that it did anyways. The right gobbles it up because believing absurdities is a requirement for that lot.
. . .
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Old 25th September 2022, 11:10 PM   #511
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DeSantis wants air time attention. He learned from Trump: it doesn't matter what kind of attention, as long as it's attention. Keeping his name and face in the news in his priority. He wants 2024 bad.
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Old 26th September 2022, 02:12 AM   #512
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
When it comes to the GOP and their supporters, cruelty isn't a bug, its a feature. Cruelty is the ******* point!

This sounds more idiotic every time I hear it parroted around here. As though conservatives and Republicans are a group of aspiring Supervillains. Like, the concept of not wanting poorly-vetted, infectious, should-be illegals pouring onto our streets by the thousands is somehow "cruel", in the mind of a liberal.

Does that mindset not sound insane? I feel like I am taking crazy pills around here!
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Old 26th September 2022, 02:30 AM   #513
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
This sounds more idiotic every time I hear it parroted around here. As though conservatives and Republicans are a group of aspiring Supervillains. Like, the concept of not wanting poorly-vetted, infectious, should-be illegals pouring onto our streets by the thousands is somehow "cruel", in the mind of a liberal.

Does that mindset not sound insane? I feel like I am taking crazy pills around here!
Evidence for these three claims - you know what I'm going to say next...

Put up or shut up!
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Old 26th September 2022, 02:47 AM   #514
Warp12
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Originally Posted by Warp12
Like, the concept of not wanting poorly-vetted, infectious, should-be illegals pouring onto our streets by the thousands is somehow "cruel", in the mind of a liberal.
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Evidence for these three claims - you know what I'm going to say next...

Put up or shut up!

Oh wait, I have to explain why water is wet, again? Big shocker around here.

Quote:
This new wave of migrants is coming largely from Venezuela, Cuba and Nicaragua. That's significant because these migrants generally cannot be expelled under the pandemic border restrictions known as Title 42. And immigration authorities are mostly releasing them into the United States, where they can seek asylum.

...

In August alone, the Border Patrol recorded more than 50,000 apprehensions in the Del Rio sector, which includes Eagle Pass — tens of thousands more than in traditional migration corridors like the Rio Grande Valley and El Paso.The number of migrants arriving from Venezuela, Cuba and Nicaragua was nearly equal to the number from Mexico and northern Central America.
https://www.npr.org/2022/09/23/11245...rner-of-south-


Look at those numbers, and nearly half are not subject to the same Covid protocols that normally would see them deported. These are the "not illegals" that liberals are crowing about, like the ones here who suffered through a trip to Martha's Vineyard.

Quote:
Agents have been deployed from the northern border to expediate the processing. Owens said the migrants are not housed at the facility longer than 3 days.
https://www.kens5.com/article/news/s...1-0b269c04d1af

Within 72 hours they are sprung. How well do you think they are vetted??
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Old 26th September 2022, 03:11 AM   #515
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Evidence for these three claims...
Add it to the stack of claims that Warp can't support so he can act like he's met the burden of proof by saying "water is wet" or some other evasive excuse.
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Old 26th September 2022, 03:28 AM   #516
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Oh wait, I have to explain why water is wet, again? Big shocker around here.


https://www.npr.org/2022/09/23/11245...rner-of-south-


Look at those numbers, and nearly half are not subject to the same Covid protocols that normally would see them deported. These are the "not illegals" that liberals are crowing about, like the ones here who suffered through a trip to Martha's Vineyard.


https://www.kens5.com/article/news/s...1-0b269c04d1af

Within 72 hours they are sprung. How well do you think they are vetted??
None of any of that piffle is evidence of any of the three claims you made. They're just opinions.

"poorly-vetted"
: Show which steps in the vetting procedures were not followed or carried out, and show factual evidence that those steps were missed.

"infectious"
: Prove, with facts, that these people were infected with disease, and specify which disease(s).

"should be illegals"
: Show the section(s) of the USCIS' travel authorization granting Temporary Protected Status (TPS) to Venezuelan asylum-seekers that makes them illegal immigrants.

I can't wait to see what inane crap you come up with for these... especially the last one.
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Old 26th September 2022, 03:36 AM   #517
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
<snipped portions containing denial of statements supported by clearly presented facts>

The level of selective liberal-championed feigned ignorance around here is staggering. Like I said, it makes one think they are taking crazy pills.
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Old 26th September 2022, 04:08 AM   #518
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
The level of selective liberal-championed feigned ignorance around here is staggering. Like I said, it makes one think they are taking crazy pills.
- There were no relevant facts presented at all, and none of what you posted was the evidence I asked for.

I repeat, none of your inane piffle is evidence of any of the three claims you made, namely...

"poorly-vetted": Show which steps in the vetting procedures were not followed or carried out, and show factual evidence that those steps were missed.
None of the links you posted listed the steps in the vetting procedures

"infectious": Prove, with facts, that these people were infected with disease, and specify which disease(s).
None of the links you posted listed the infections or diseased that you claim these people have

"should be illegals": Show the section(s) of the USCIS' travel authorization granting Temporary Protected Status (TPS) to Venezuelan asylum-seekers that makes them illegal immigrants.
None of the links you posted showed that part of the TPS grant that transforms these asylum-seekers into illegal immigrants
.
.
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Old 26th September 2022, 05:00 AM   #519
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
https://www.dropbox.com/s/osz57f1llr...Fail.png?raw=1 - [...]
"should be illegals": Show the section(s) of the USCIS' travel authorization granting Temporary Protected Status (TPS) to Venezuelan asylum-seekers that makes them illegal immigrants.
None of the links you posted showed that part of the TPS grant that transforms these asylum-seekers into illegal immigrants
.
.
You're using a different notion of "should" than Warp. You're focused on whether the granting of TPS status is legal, but he's focused on whether it is "deserved" in some sense. That is, whether there is a reason that we ought to grant special status to Venezuelans at this time.

But let's suppose that it is undeserved for a moment, that this was in irresponsible choice by the administration. Warp concludes he doesn't give a damn about these people because they don't deserve this special status. But does this make any sense? They didn't do anything wrong in taking advantage of the rules involving asylum. If any wrong was done, it would be on the part of the administration, not the asylum seekers.

So, the "reasoning" is just mighty confused. If the administration grants certain rights to seek asylum when they "shouldn't", how could that possibly make mistreatment of the migrants by DeSantis morally okay? Is there some sort of ledger where the administration added a benefit and now DeSantis is allowed to add a deficit so long as it's not greater than the benefit?

Warp has a childish view of basic decency. Well, except when he claims that DeSantis's self-serving end justifies the means. In that case, he has a childish rejection of morality altogether.
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Old 26th September 2022, 05:05 AM   #520
W.D.Clinger
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I think I have already made it pretty clear that I don't care much about the plight of these people.
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
When it comes to the GOP and their supporters, cruelty isn't a bug, its a feature. Cruelty is the ******* point!
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
This sounds more idiotic every time I hear it parroted around here. As though conservatives and Republicans are a group of aspiring Supervillains.
It sounds more accurate every time a GOP supporter proclaims his callousness.

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Does that mindset not sound insane? I feel like I am taking crazy pills around here!
If I felt that way, I'd stop taking the pills.
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