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Tags "A Wilderness of Error" , "Fatal Vision" , errol morris , Jeffrey MacDonald , Joe MacGinniss , murder cases

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Old 28th December 2018, 07:46 AM   #801
AnimalFriendly
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
People are unbelievably stupid.
For an ideal case in point, Henri, look in a mirror.

I would sort of expect a doctor to know whether people, especially those who'd been brutally beaten, stabbed, etc., were actually dead or not. And given that he probably did know they were dead, I doubt if he really administered CPR as he claimed.

Last edited by AnimalFriendly; 28th December 2018 at 07:54 AM.
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Old 28th December 2018, 08:36 AM   #802
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And as a doctor, he would know that you do not do CPR on a person unless they are on a flat surface, on their backs. Neither child was in that position. A doctor would also know that you do NOT remove a knife from a victim unless and/or until they are in surgery, where any bleeding could be immediately controlled if removal could "unplug" a hole in a blood vessel or internal organ.
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Old 28th December 2018, 09:26 AM   #803
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You are not a medically qualified doctor. MacDonald explained exactly what happened with regard to the knife and CPR at the grand jury. It depends on the circumstances. There is some criticism of the North Carolina judicial system at this website which is relevant to the Mazerolle case and his supposedly 'airtight' alibi as one of the MacDonald murderers.:

http://www.ncpolicywatch.com/2018/03...stice-experts/

Quote:
North Carolina’s bail bond industry has faced a number of recent high-profile embarrassments.
Among them:
An ongoing case in which former Wake County clerks were convicted of defrauding the county of approximately $1.5 million. Kelvin Ballentine testified he was paid by three bondsmen to falsify records in more than 300 cases in court computers from 2008 to 2012. He made it appear the bond companies had paid bonds for defendants who did not appear in court when they had not. The money, from forfeited bonds, would ultimately have gone to the Wake County Public School System. Bond surety companies are now in court trying to avoid paying the forfeited bonds.

Another case of bail agent fraud in Guilford County last year that cost the county more than $200,000. One instance, involving two bail agents, cost the county more than $107,000 by itself.

More than 80 people associated with the bail industry in North Carolina who are known to have been convicted of, or who are currently under indictment for, serious crimes. Charges range from bail forfeiture, unlicensed bail bonding work, sex with customers and manslaughter. In one case in Guilford County, a bail agent faces charges for allegedly filing a fraudulent death certificate for a man who skipped bail while facing drug dealing charges.

Critics of the industry – including its customers, their lawyers and top law enforcement officials throughout the state – say that it is both horribly broken and so deeply entrenched in North Carolina politics that improvements are unlikely.

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 28th December 2018 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 28th December 2018, 09:38 AM   #804
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There are people who think Hennis is innocent in that North Carolina death row case because of North Carolina forensic fraud:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/lies...ed-t10546.html

Quote:
Thanks a lot for the new info,Payback;new links and alternative patterns keep emerging from the most unexpected places when we getr iinto this field.It also turns out that the victim's babysitter has close ties to the Jeffrey MacDonald case.

As far as the admirable intention of clearing people at Fort Bragg(or in the general area) with DNA testing goes,there is a very big problem.Earlier in the trial the FBI agent who handled the alleged DNA samples from the beginning admitted that there is no chain of custody for the swab containing this new Hennis DNA sample for over fifteen years(and the same observation applies in scores of other cases at the same lab).Once that it was known that it is possible to plant DNA,this was an ideal lab to start experimenting one way or the other.

All the successful Innocence Project cases already adjucated( and those still pending) involve periods before it was possible to manipulate the same.The rules change for both the prosecution and defense after the date forensiic experts(like Joyce Gilmore) learned about these fascinating possibilities.

In the Hennis case we have already had an expert who participated in the original testinig saying that he doesn't believe the DNA sperm could have survived the original 1985-1989 tests if had been on the swab at that time.

Any which way,this case(in all its torturous intricacy) becomes more fascinating by the minute.
The defense put on two tried and true witnesses for Hennis who were disbelieved by the first jury but were enthusiastically accepted by the second jury which acquitted in a mere 2 1/2 hours.

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Old 28th December 2018, 12:46 PM   #805
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I musta hit a nerve, Henri(etta) never replied to my pointing out that the pajama bottoms as fiber sources was addressed and that Macdonald, realizing he can't change his DNA, changed his story (again) to match the evidence by claiming the hair in Colette's hand happened while he was moving her (took him decades to come up with a story!)

Oh, and Henri(etta), stop trying to derail the thread with Hennis. If you feel so strongly about that case, start a thread on it!

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Old 28th December 2018, 12:57 PM   #806
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
You are not a medically qualified doctor. MacDonald explained exactly what happened with regard to the knife and CPR at the grand jury.
No.

Inmate told a story designed to cover up his criminal actions in murdering his family.

Look it up for yourself. People that commit crimes have a tendency to lie if they believe it will get them off the hot seat.

Your man crush is no exception.

Show me a crime scene where an individual that presents the only viable threat to a criminal actor has minor wounds (and his were - sucking chest wounds sound impressive to laymen - anybody with basic military immediate action first aid training, not so much) and other victims that presented no threat are over-killed, the odds are that Mr. Lucky did the deed, not some "drug-crazed" hippie ********.
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Old 28th December 2018, 06:08 PM   #807
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Originally Posted by byn63 View Post
Merry Christmas Fire Brigade. The 4th Circuit Court rendered its decision. Over 100 pages upholding inmate's conviction. In other words he is not entitled to relief and will not get any!

So this year the Court decided to give MacDonald the Christmas gift he deserved, only in this case it was a well deserved lump of coal.
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Old 29th December 2018, 03:28 AM   #808
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Originally Posted by desmirelle View Post
I musta hit a nerve, Henri(etta) never replied to my pointing out that the pajama bottoms as fiber sources was addressed and that Macdonald, realizing he can't change his DNA, changed his story (again) to match the evidence by claiming the hair in Colette's hand happened while he was moving her (took him decades to come up with a story!)

Oh, and Henri(etta), stop trying to derail the thread with Hennis. If you feel so strongly about that case, start a thread on it!
It may be me but I can't see the exact reference where these North Carolina judges mention the pajama bottoms which were incompetently lost. It's not profound enough. The fibers found on the piece of 'lumber' which was the murder weapon were black wool fibers with no known source. That was a lie to the jury by Blackburn to say they were pajama fibers.

That hair in the left hand of Colette was unidentified for donkey's years until 2006 years, years after DNA analysis first became available, and by magic and forensic fraud. I don't know who wrote that 4th Circuit ruling. It sounds like Bruce or Murtagh to me. It has all been debunked in the past by Fred Bost.

The Hennis case in North Carolina is very similar and relevant in a way to the MacDonald case. There was the same bad police work by the Army CID and manufactured evidence and forensic DNA fraud even if there was no mention of pajama fibers. These North Carolina judges are mistaken and unfair. You don't get a fair trial in North Carolina. There needs to be an impartial judge and jury on the MacDonald case which may never happen because of North Carolina politics.
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Old 29th December 2018, 07:41 AM   #809
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
You are not a medically qualified doctor. MacDonald explained exactly what happened with regard to the knife and CPR at the grand jury. It depends on the circumstances.

http://www.ncpolicywatch.com/2018/03...stice-experts/
While I am not a qualified MD, I am qualified in basic first aid and CPR (and maintained my quals over 40 years), and have a few friends who are doctors and EMTs. What Inmate says he did is in direct opposition to everything we were and are taught. I knew what he claimed he did during his so called attempts at CPR was ridiculous the first time I read about it.
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Old 29th December 2018, 11:52 AM   #810
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
It may be me <snip of nonsense>

That hair in the left hand of Colette was unidentified for donkey's years until 2006 years, years after DNA analysis first became available, and by magic and forensic fraud. I don't know who wrote that 4th Circuit ruling. It sounds like Bruce or Murtagh to me. It has all been debunked in the past by Fred Bost.

The Hennis case <snip of unrelated to thread nonsense> .
Definitely you, try doing what I suggested: read the ENTIRE opinion, ALL the words, IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY ARE WRITTEN.

Jeffrey Macdonald (forget Bost) now admits the hair in Colette's hand IS HIS. He came up with a reason for it to be there since he can't change his DNA. That makes anything Bost made up obviously made up.

Hennis is a derailment attempt of the thread. If you want to discuss that murderer, start a thread on it.
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Old 29th December 2018, 01:08 PM   #811
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
There are people who think Hennis is innocent
Hitler has his defenders as well.
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Old 29th December 2018, 02:21 PM   #812
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Hollow Chatter

The landlord of MacFantasy Island will rinse and repeat debunked claims until he or she is worm food, but the 4th Circuit's decision has forever relegated this tactic to hollow chatter status. No more chances for the Ice Pick Baby Killer. No more appearances before a District or Circuit Court judge. Errol Morris, Harvey Silverglate, and a handful of other advocates have turned tail and run. They all know that they've had their butts kicked by the likes of Brian Murtagh, Paul Stombaugh, and Joe McGinniss. Keep running fellas, maybe you'll eventually be able to shake off the stink that comes from advocating for a mass murderer.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com

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Old 30th December 2018, 04:18 AM   #813
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MacDonald has no way of proving the so-called MacDonald case DNA evidence was planted by corrupt forensic technicians who are not whiter than white. He can only try to think of some explanation assuming it's true. Fred Bost demolished all those 4th Circuit OPINIONS years ago in his Fred Bost short study which is on the internet.

Colette's mother and the babysitter committed perjury at the trial saying there was an icepick in the MacDonald apartment, which the 4th Circuit judges never mentioned in their latest ruling.

This is a sensible website about all this:

https://www.crimeandinvestigation.co...acdonald/trial

Quote:
Throughout a litany of anomalies committed during the trial, the most glaring was the Army’s alleged holding back of evidence and not allowing the defence to test vital evidence in the laboratory. Defence lawyer Bernie Segal made an accusatory statement saying that in any court the examination of evidence would be a right for the defence.

But in this particular case it was left entirely up to the discretion of Judge Dupree, a man who, in hindsight, should have retired from the case due to his lack of impartiality. Furthermore, the Army’s compete mishandling of the investigation along with positive testimonies of MacDonald’s character were to be kept from the jury.

Years after the trial the defence were able to scrutinise lab notes through the Freedom of Information Act that disclosed important findings that were never presented to the jury.

Vital pieces of evidence that were held back involved several strands of long blond hair that were found in the hand of Colette, the murdered wife. These fibres were traced to that of Helena Stoeckley’s blonde wig, which she admitted she wore and disposed of shortly after the murders.

Similar hairs were also discovered on the deceased’s hairbrush and Stoeckley later also admitted that she had used the hairbrush on her wig.

The prosecution also claimed that the club, used to beat Colette revealed two dark fibres from MacDonald’s pyjamas, as being sound evidence incriminating the key suspect. Years later this was found to be false.

In fact, the fibres were discovered to have come from Colette’s own mouth, most likely when she was hit by the club. The fibres themselves did not match any clothes found in the house or worn by Colette or MacDonald. Furthermore three wax droppings were discovered in the house, but they did not come from any candles the MacDonald’s owned. Helen Stoeckley was known to use candles for her rituals and the evidence supported MacDonald’s claim that he saw a woman holding a lit candle.

Other pieces of evidence that were held back from being reported to the jury at the time included evidence of a burnt match in one of the children’s bedroom and a number of bloody gloves and a syringe that was lost by the CID lab before they could be tested.

More disturbing was the amount of evidence that cleared MacDonald of suspicion that was simply not presented to the defence team. In other cases, uncorroborated evidence against MacDonald was held back and only presented during the trial, therefore preventing the defence from being able to address the issues.

What the jury also never heard was that no hairs from any of the victims were found entwined with fibres from MacDonald’s pyjamas.

Various pieces of evidence against MacDonald proved highly damaging, but the greatest was perhaps the ‘character assessment’ of the suspect presented by Dr James Brussel. Brussel was selected by Government officials and was known as a celebrity psychiatrist who used ‘psychic’ abilities, often without even seeing the prisoners or suspects in custody. Brussel claimed that MacDonald was a psychopath.

Despite various psychiatric reports on MacDonald’s personality, including one by the respected forensic psychiatrist Dr Seymour Halleck stating that the suspect was stable and a non-pathological personality, none of these testimonies were presented in court. Brussel’s however was admitted for the jury to hear.

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Old 30th December 2018, 04:27 AM   #814
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The Fred Bost short study demolishes the opinions which are not based on something by these 4th Circuit judges. They should read it one day:

http://thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/h...ort-study.html

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Old 30th December 2018, 09:59 AM   #815
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Every kind of corruption and abuse becomes rife in North Carolina if there is no public or media criticism. The MacDonald case is a public scandal.
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Old 30th December 2018, 04:31 PM   #816
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Anyone else dig the irony of HM accusing every mother's son of lying about the murders where the only actual proven liar is their mancrush?
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Old 30th December 2018, 05:17 PM   #817
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Anyone else dig the irony of HM accusing every mother's son of lying about the murders where the only actual proven liar is their mancrush?
there's only so much trolling material.
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Old 30th December 2018, 05:40 PM   #818
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
MacDonald case is a public scandal murderer.
FIFY
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Old 31st December 2018, 04:18 AM   #819
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There is an interesting discussion of the MacDonald case, and even of the JonBenet Ramsey case which I don't entirely agree with at this website:

https://www.billjamesonline.com/dr__jeffrey_macdonald/

Murtagh and Stombaugh and Malone and Joe McGinniss should have been charged with perverting the course of justice.

Quote:
This "blood story" is the essential evidence against MacDonald; it was this whose-blood-is-where stuff that was the structure and substance of the case against him. Joe McGinniss in Fatal Vision spends tens of thousands of words. .. it seemed to me hundreds of pages. . .going over this evidence again, and again.
And again, and again.
And again.
That was what I hated about McGinniss’ book, actually; he "analyzes" the blood evidence in minute detail, repeatedly, and I couldn’t make head nor tail out of what he was talking about it. It was total gibberish to me.

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Old 31st December 2018, 02:48 PM   #820
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
There is an interesting discussion of the MacDonald case, and even of the JonBenet Ramsey case which I don't entirely agree with at this website:

https://www.billjamesonline.com/dr__jeffrey_macdonald/

Murtagh and Stombaugh and Malone and Joe McGinniss should have been charged with perverting the course of justice.
No thanks.

The stuff you make up is bad enough.
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Old 1st January 2019, 04:13 AM   #821
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It was strained logic and judicial illusion as Justice Marshall of the Supreme Court once reported about the MacDonald case. A judge in the UK has recently said that judges have been accused of living on a different planet.

I agree with what Bill James wrote in his article, though he is strangely not convinced of MacDonald's innocence. It's true that non lawyers think it's strange that the evidence against Helena Stoeckley was held in secret and that Judge Dupree seems to have been supported in that by some other federal judges, but there are other lawyers, not MacDonald defense lawyers, who think Dupree was "clearly erroneous" in not allowing the jury to hear the evidence against Stoeckley and her pals. Judge Fox and the 4th Circuit judges are biased as well. From that Bill James article:

Quote:
I have no idea whether Judge Dupree was or was not biased, frankly, and I don’t take too seriously Morris’s repeated claims that he was. But again, Morris does have a point here. After MacDonald was convicted, many of his appeals, in one form or another, had to go back through Judge Dupree’s court.
That’s not right, for this reason. Of course the judicial system makes every possible effort to find judges who are able to rise above their assumptions, their biases—but, in the interests of fairness, the system should never assume that the trial judge was unbiased. The system should assume, in the interests of fairness, that there is a possibility that the appellant has been unfairly treated, and should ask someone else to look at all appeals.

I would go further than that: I would ban anyone involved in a prosecution—judges and prosecutors—from playing any role in the case, after the conviction, insofar as it is practical to avoid this. I would prohibit them from commenting on or being involved in appeals. I would prohibit them from appearing before or even from writing to parole boards.

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Old 1st January 2019, 03:02 PM   #822
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Wow

Bill James is a baseball statistics guru who is currently employed by the Boston Red Sox. He has never been a police officer, detective, private investigator, lab technician or forensics expert. His opinions on the physical evidence in this case are worthless.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
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Old 2nd January 2019, 05:43 AM   #823
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
People are unbelievably stupid.
Yes, you certainly can be unbelievably stupid AND ignorant.

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
MacDonald tried to give CPR though the conditions were not perfect.
No, he absolutely did not attempt CPR. IF he had attempted CPR then Kimmie and Kristy would have been on the floor on their backs. You cannot have it both ways henri - you cannot believe he did CPR AND believe that the hippies existed. You cannot perform CPR on a bed or soft surface - as a doctor inmate would KNOW that...they were found not just on but IN their beds and in Kimmie's case fully tucked in....

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
The trouble was the victims were dead.
That is correct, HIS VICTIMS WERE DEAD AND HE DID NOT EVEN ATTEMPT CPR.

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
They had been murdered by the Stoeckley seven.
No, that is not possible because (a) there was not such a thing as the "Stoeckly Seven" and (b) inmate himself slaughtered his family brutally.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 09:25 AM   #824
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Narcotics cops are not capable of solving difficult murders.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 09:54 AM   #825
Henri McPhee
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Originally Posted by byn63 View Post

No, he absolutely did not attempt CPR. IF he had attempted CPR then Kimmie and Kristy would have been on the floor on their backs. You cannot have it both ways henri - you cannot believe he did CPR AND believe that the hippies existed. You cannot perform CPR on a bed or soft surface - as a doctor inmate would KNOW that...they were found not just on but IN their beds and in Kimmie's case fully tucked in....
MacDonald mentioned exactly what happened, in passing, with regard to CPR at the grand jury. it seems a reasonable explanation to me:

Quote:
Q What are the -- you did give mouth to mouth resuscitation to Colette and to each of the children?
A Yeah.
Q You're a trained doctor and you're experienced in emergency room functions; and can you tell us what the indications are that caused you to give her mouth to mouth resuscitation?
A Well, she looked -- you know -- she looked like she was dead. She wasn't breathing, couldn't feel a pulse. That's what you do with them.
Q Well, that's the first thing you do. You wouldn't rush for something to start heart action in the way of hypodermic injection or something of that sort?
A No, you wouldn't do that. The first problem is airway problem. Airway, circulation, breathing, A, B, C.
Q Now, you said that she was very bloody. She was covered with the blood?
A (Nods affirmatively)
Q And there was blood all over the place.
Now, were her wounds flowing -- would you say they were oozing, or were --
A It seems to me -- I didn't see any blood running. She was wet. The blood was wet on her chest, but -- you know -- I didn't see any.
Q So it was fresh blood? It wasn't flowing or oozing or seeping out of her at that time?
A Right, right. I didn't see any arterial bleeding, right.
Q I may have touched upon this, I don't really want to repeat too much, but I just don't -- I just don't remember to the extent I touched on it, but, of course, Colette was on the floor; each of the children was in bed; and I'm going to ask you again the position of the bed covers over the bodies of Kimberly and Kris?
A I -- I saw both girls -- you know -- but I don't know if I pulled down the covers or if the covers were down when I initially got there.
Ah, but I -- you know -- I can remember taking pulses, and I can remember sort of like seeing Kim and seeing Kris.
So, you know, I don't -- I don't really have a recollection of them being covered. So I either pulled the covers down, or -- you know -- I saw them and they were uncovered.
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Old 2nd January 2019, 12:13 PM   #826
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
Narcotics cops are not capable of solving difficult murders.
Internet true crime buffs don't have the training or experience to make informed judgements on evidence or criminal acts.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 06:52 AM   #827
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
MacDonald mentioned exactly what happened, in passing, with regard to CPR at the grand jury. it seems a reasonable explanation to me:
No he made up a story....and anyone who has had even the most basic CPR training can see that it is a PHONEY story.

IF he had attempted CPR on Kimmie and Kristy THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE FLOOR ON THEIR BACKS. That the girls were found IN THEIR BEDS and COVERED UP any basically trained profiler would tell you that was an act of "undoing". Inmate slaughtered his children and then "tucked them in" as an act of undoing his horrific actions.

NOT ONLY THAT BUT BASIC MOUTH TO MOUTH BREATHING WOULD HAVE BEEN IMPOSSIBLE ON KIMMIE SINCE HER BROKEN CHEEK BONE WAS PROTRUDING THROUGH THE SKIN OF HER FACE. The FACT is that even if inmate had bashed her in the head within steps of a high-tech high quality surgical suite with the best neurosurgeon in the world scrubbed and ready to operate Kimmie was unlikely to survive the wounds inmate inflicted and if she lived she'd have had no quality of life. I do not understand what about this murderer you find worth supporting. The FACTS are in but you choose to ignore them. Grow up! Inmate is guilty, he is where he belongs, and I hope Kimmie, Kristy, and Colette haunt him.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 09:59 AM   #828
Henri McPhee
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I'm not medically qualified but as I understand it the first thing you do in that kind of situation is to check the pulse and then attempt to free the airwaves. He was in a panic and devastated and any attempt at CPR could never have been performed under hospital conditions. It's a bit like slapping somebody on the back when they are choking to death.
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Old 3rd January 2019, 10:54 AM   #829
JTF
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Henry: You should check out inmate's website. I'll give you a heads up, it is no more. Still waiting on that evidentiary item that was definitively sourced to a member of the Stoeckley Seven. Since 1982, that has been THE challenge for inmate's rotating band of lawyers and their failure to meet that challenge resulted in the 4th Circuit Court putting a final nail in their client's legal coffin. This stark reality is the main reason why you'll continue to focus on side and/or non-evidentiary issues.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com

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Old 3rd January 2019, 12:55 PM   #830
byn63
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
I'm not medically qualified but as I understand it the first thing you do in that kind of situation is to check the pulse and then attempt to free the airwaves.
I AM CPR certified. The first thing you do is to check if the person is responsive....as in you shake them and ask loudly "are you all right?" Then you check for breathing and pulse. FYI it IS NOT "airwaves" that you are checking, people are not transistor radios. You always do the A, B, Cs = Airway, Breathing, and Circulation.

From the CPR manual: Every victim who requires cardiopulmonary resuscitation should be moved to a life support unit or hospital AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. This action should in no way interfere with starting appropriate basic life support at the scene, with stabilizing the victim prior to moving him/her, or with continuing basic and advanced life support during transportation.

C=Circulation: Artificial Circulation (External Cardiac Compression) Cardiac arrest is recognized by pulselessness in an unconscious victim with a deathlike appearance and absent breathing.

External Cardiac Compression consists of the rhythmic application of pressure over the lower portion of the sternum. When the hears is in cardiac arrest, properly performed external cardiac compression can produce systolic blood pressure peaks of over 100mm Hg.

Effective performance of external cardiac compression requires more than just pushing on the chest. There are numerous small details that make the difference between effective and ineffective, safe and unsafe, proper and improper performance of external cardiac compression. STRICT ATTENTION SHOULD BE GIVEN TO THE DETAILS.

For external cardiac compression to be effective, the VICTIM MUST BE ON A FIRM SURFACE, SUCH AS THE GROUND, THE FLOOR, OR A SPINE BOARD ON A WHEELED LITTER.


Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
He was in a panic and devastated and any attempt at CPR could never have been performed under hospital conditions.
Most CPR is not done under hospital conditions that is why the manual makes sure to point out the simple process of starting CPR and it includes making sure that the victim is on a firm surface.

Also, you cannot claim inmate to be "panicked and devastated" in this instance and then bring up all the "super doc" claims. if he was such a superior ER Doctor AND was truly one of the victims and not the perp then he would have reacted with his medical training first and then reacted in any emotional way (if he knew how) after the fact. Since they teach first responders to react first and get sick later if need be, I am certain they teach surgeons to do the same.

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
It's a bit like slapping somebody on the back when they are choking to death.
IF you take the proper training then you KNOW that you don't just slap someone on the back if they are choking. The proper procedure is called the Heimlick Manuever. Also, at least her in the US many restaurants have a Heimlick poster prominently displayed. A surgeon would also know the proper manner of aiding a choking victim too.

Last edited by byn63; 3rd January 2019 at 12:57 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 3rd January 2019, 06:14 PM   #831
JTF
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The Mass Murdering Rock

BYN: I guess Henri forgot about the fact that inmate was called the "Rock" by the nuns at St. Mary's Hospital. This was due to his coolness and steadiness under pressure. I guess when you slaughter your family, all your medical training and coolness goes out the window.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
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Old 6th January 2019, 04:06 PM   #832
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I find it interesting that the 4Th Circuit court gave all sorts of chances to MacDonald and his lawyers to present the evidence that would exonerate MacDonald and yet in the end slammed the door in his face.

I suspect that the Judges thought there may be a chance that MacDonald was innocent and perhaps were worried about an innocent man rotting in jail and so they threw MacDonald lifeline after lifeline.

If I'm reading the decision correctly, it appears to me under the judicial prose is disappointment. It was like the court was saying: "After all the slack we gave you this is the best you can come up with?!".

And it is interesting that even in their recent decision I think that the court gives too much credence to MacDonald and his Lawyer's arguments. (I.e., for example their handling of the folded pajama top evidence for one.) But despite all their indulgence to MacDonald and his Lawyers all the court gets is a stream of pathetic "evidence" etc., from them. And it appears that pissed off the 4th Circuit Court.
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Old 6th January 2019, 08:14 PM   #833
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Agreed

PACAL: I had a similar reaction when the 4th Circuit remanded the case to Judge Fox in 2011. This particular 4th Circuit Court appeared to have a soft spot for inmate, so they allowed inmate's lawyers to put forth evidentiary arguments that didn't past muster in prior 4th Circuit appellate hearings. Fortunately, Judge Fox was able to read the legal tea leaves, so he ordered an evidentiary hearing that would allow both the defense/government to present literally any type of case data at the week long hearing.

This hearing took place in 2012, and similar to their latter presentations to this 4th Circuit Court, the defense didn't come close to presenting the evidentiary goods. The defense knew that they faced a "daunting burden," yet they relied on 2nd and 3rd hand hearsay testimony at the hearing. Granted, they presented previously debunked evidentiary claims (e.g., unsourced hairs, fibers, wax, prints), but their burden was to produce evidence that was definitively sourced to an alternative suspect or suspects.

I'm pleased that the 4th Circuit concurred with most of Judge Fox's conclusions and that they took the time to actually read the documented record. After listening to oral arguments in 2010 and 2017, I didn't feel that the 4th Circuit had gone beyond having a cursory knowledge of the facts of this case. Their 12/21/18 decision, however, convinced me that they decided to spend the next 23 months going over the documented record with a fine tooth comb.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com

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Old 7th January 2019, 05:39 AM   #834
byn63
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I believe it is probable that despite their belief that inmate MIGHT have some evidence to support his claims of innocence the 4th Circuit Court decided to give him a lot of rope. In the end, instead of coiling it neatly on top of evidence, the defense tied a hangman's knot and slipped it over inmate's head (metaphorically speaking).
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Old 7th January 2019, 11:15 PM   #835
JTF
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Options

In terms of legal options, inmate has 3 roads to travel, and none of them have any REAL chance at success.

1) Appeal to the United States Supreme Court.

COMMENT: Considering that this case has already been before the Supreme Court (e.g., 1977 and 1981), the possibility that they would even hear this case is remote.

2) Client can apply for parole in 2020, admit his guilt, and express remorse.

COMMENT: In this scenario, inmate would be admitting to the parole board that he has been a habitual liar for the past 50 years. This includes his 2005 application for parole where he claimed he was "factually innocent."

3) Due to his stroke in the Fall/Winter of 2018, client can take the "compassionate release" approach and ask the parole board for an early release.

COMMENT: This approach is usually reserved for those who are on death's door, but even this scenario does not have a high success rate. Prime example is mass murderer Susan Atkins who, unlike inmate, had a terminal illness.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com

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Old 9th January 2019, 03:20 AM   #836
Henri McPhee
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It's like Iranian justice.
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Old 9th January 2019, 06:23 AM   #837
byn63
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It is so nice to know that Justice has been done in this case. It is long past the time when this case should be considered closed. We KNOW he will never admit what he did but sentient beings who have read the evidence and reviewed the testimonies etc KNOW the truth and hopefully this is done.
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Old 9th January 2019, 01:14 PM   #838
BStrong
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
It's like Iranian justice.
If we're discussing your faith based beliefs in the lies told by your man crush you'd be correct - they have their imaginary friend and you have an imagination and not a whole lot else.
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Old 9th January 2019, 11:21 PM   #839
desmirelle
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
It's like Iranian justice.
Liar. No Sharia law has ever been applied in the Jeffrey Macdonald case and you know it. The closest thing to religion in this case happened well before the trial, when Colette and her daughters were buried.

You have truly reached the end of your rope in this case. Tie a knot and hold on.

Last edited by desmirelle; 9th January 2019 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 10th January 2019, 05:17 AM   #840
byn63
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Originally Posted by desmirelle View Post
You have truly reached the end of your rope in this case. Tie a knot and hold on.

Is it bad to say I expected you to say tie a knot in the rope and slip it over your head, Desi?
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