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Old 12th February 2020, 08:21 PM   #81
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by Wolfman View Post
However, I know of quite a few people from various ethnic minorities and LGBTQ who will do so. For example, "My preferred pronouns are they/their" or "My preferred pronouns are ze/zir". If they have changed their name (for personal reasons, or because of a gender transition), they may also specify what name should be used to refer to them. And if their name may be difficult to pronounce, they may also specify the proper pronunciation.
See my custom title. Though there is absolutely no ambiguity in my gender expression, I put that there to emphasise that it is completely normal for a person to prespecify their pronouns.
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Old 14th February 2020, 01:10 PM   #82
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There seems to be an assumption in many cases (conservatives in relation to protective laws being an example, though I am not necessarily saying this is the politics of anyonehere) to assume that there is no back story - no history of abuse or misunderstanding - that it's just something someone dreamed up for dubious reasons, rather than a response to anything. I would at least consider the possibility that although those who got the memo were offended at the thought that they should need it, enough have in the past.
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Old 14th February 2020, 01:20 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
See my custom title. Though there is absolutely no ambiguity in my gender expression, I put that there to emphasise that it is completely normal for a person to prespecify their pronouns.
It's not completely normal, though. It's actually something of a social outlier. I understand that some people are working hard to normalize it, but that doesn't entitle them to my agreement.
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Old 14th February 2020, 02:37 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
See my custom title. Though there is absolutely no ambiguity in my gender expression, I put that there to emphasise that it is completely normal for a person to prespecify their pronouns.
At a stretch you could argue prespecifying titles is normal like Mrs or Miss or Ms, other generic pronouns she is not normal.

As much as some people wish it to be.
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Old 14th February 2020, 02:56 PM   #85
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Even prespecifying titles like Mr or Ms isn't normal. The only people who begin a social encounter by making sure you call them "Mister" are obnoxious twats. (Those of you who like analogies can see where this is going.)
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Old 15th February 2020, 04:52 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Even prespecifying titles like Mr or Ms isn't normal. The only people who begin a social encounter by making sure you call them "Mister" are obnoxious twats. (Those of you who like analogies can see where this is going.)
Much offense will ensue.
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Old 15th February 2020, 05:04 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
See my custom title. Though there is absolutely no ambiguity in my gender expression, I put that there to emphasise that it is completely normal for a person to prespecify their pronouns.
If it were completely normal, it wouldn't be necessary for you to emphasize it. It would already be clear. As theprestige said, you are trying to help to normalize it. That may or may not be a noble endeavor. I haven't entirely made up my mind as to how I see it yet. But if it had already become normal there'd be no need for you to help.
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Old 15th February 2020, 05:48 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's not completely normal, though. It's actually something of a social outlier. I understand that some people are working hard to normalize it, but that doesn't entitle them to my agreement.
It is sad that you think that anyone else requires YOUR agreement to simply be themselves.
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Old 16th February 2020, 09:04 PM   #89
arthwollipot
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
If it were completely normal, it wouldn't be necessary for you to emphasize it. It would already be clear. As theprestige said, you are trying to help to normalize it. That may or may not be a noble endeavor. I haven't entirely made up my mind as to how I see it yet. But if it had already become normal there'd be no need for you to help.
Yes, you're correct. I was using loose language. To be more precise, I do it for several reasons. One is that by setting an example, I want to encourage other non-pronoun-ambiguous people to do it too, so that people whose pronouns may be more ambiguous are more comfortable doing it too.

Also so that I receive the scorn of the people who think it's a dumb idea rather than them, who might be more hurt by it than I would.

It takes me very little effort. I've added it to my social media profiles, and to my custom title, and I don't have to think about it again. It's literally the least I can do.
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Old 16th February 2020, 09:06 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
At a stretch you could argue prespecifying titles is normal like Mrs or Miss or Ms, other generic pronouns she is not normal.

As much as some people wish it to be.
It should be. If we want to live in a more inclusive world, it should be. This is one small step towards making the world a better place for everybody, regardless of gender identity or expression.
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Old 17th February 2020, 06:04 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
It is sad that you think that anyone else requires YOUR agreement to simply be themselves.
But that's the opposite of what's suggested. Anybody can be themselves however they wish. The issue is that some people want other's buy-in, endorsement, and acknowledgement. I don't care if Pat is male or female. But Pat wants me to agree with their interpretation of what sex they are, and use particular forms of speech to express my agreement. You may conclude I should do so, out of politeness, and you may indeed be right in that conclusion. But don't pretend it's not Pat trying to persuade me to agree with them.
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