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Old 1st February 2020, 01:12 PM   #1
casebro
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Did I waste $100 for 3 eBay touch screens?

One is toast, not for bad caps but for fried transistors. I got my money back except for $10, and I keep it. It might be a good candidate for an upgrade to LED. The other two are in the mail, lightly used for convention displays, spent most of the time in storage. I hope. All three are the same ELO 19".

My plan is to use on as a dual monitor with it's touch screen keyboard on my desk surface, it might help my typing. And for reading/surfing, I'll keep my larger screen above the desk.

So, anybody using a touch screen on a PC? Am I stoopid?
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Old 1st February 2020, 01:33 PM   #2
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I don't understand how it might help your typing. Tapping on a flat surface with no feedback from keys is more difficult than typing on a traditional mechanical keyboard. It's why that [neat] device that projected a keyboard on any surface didn't take off. It was a very cool implementation with a fundamental flaw. Touch typing - quickly at least - requires some tactile feedback.

I type for a living and I'm always amazed by the ability of some people to very quickly type on their phone with the little on-screen keyboard (I'm hopeless), but at the end of the day I know I could beat all but the very best of them by using a proper physical keyboard, in speed and accuracy.
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Old 1st February 2020, 03:13 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
I don't understand how it might help your typing. Tapping on a flat surface with no feedback from keys is more difficult than typing on a traditional mechanical keyboard. It's why that [neat] device that projected a keyboard on any surface didn't take off. It was a very cool implementation with a fundamental flaw. Touch typing - quickly at least - requires some tactile feedback.

I type for a living and I'm always amazed by the ability of some people to very quickly type on their phone with the little on-screen keyboard (I'm hopeless), but at the end of the day I know I could beat all but the very best of them by using a proper physical keyboard, in speed and accuracy.
I get no feedback. My hands have been stiff since childhood, couldn't do the boy scout salute or play musical instruments. Or type. Plus carpal tunnel in one hand, severed that nerve in the other hand. Using the Hunten-Peck system I do 28 wpm with 42 mistakes, more if you count the errors made while correcting those 42. And the worst thing is the ******* keyboard shortcuts that I manage to engae when my thimb drags across something somehwere, and I find Ihave been tyoing in soime pop-upo window from insoide the PC. Last sentence is a smple of uncorrctedness, So I'm thunking it might be an improvement to have a screen where I type?

Yeah I suck on phones too. Between old eyes and little keyboards I need a PC. But I can watch somebody touch type or play live music, just out of envy.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 10:01 AM   #4
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Maybe noisier keyboard so you get audible feedback?

My keyboard https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UNI044A
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Old 2nd February 2020, 10:34 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
My plan is to use on as a dual monitor with it's touch screen keyboard on my desk surface, it might help my typing.

Am I stoopid?
You will be laying this ELO 19" touchscreen monitor on your desk face-up. Two things...

The back of the monitor is not flat so it will be greatly elevated and wonky wobbly if you lay it down face-up. You already know this.

The angle that you are viewing this monitor may be outside of the normal limits and so the display might appear very dark or otherwise obscured. Maybe.

You could cut a big rectangular hole in your desk and custom mount the thing beneath so that the monitor surface is nearly flush with the desk surface. Anyway, I know you enough to know that you will probably proceed because it is a challenge and you do not avoid these things. You are drawn to construction/engineering challenges. Discouragement from others only serves to ramp up your desire and motivation.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 10:42 AM   #6
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I'd think he'd wanted titled at a suitable angle for viewing, should be able to attach a support frame using the VISA mount points.

Hmm, might be more useful than my first thoughts as you might be able to expand the usual qwerty keys, swap layouts etc.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 11:32 AM   #7
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Why not just buy a membrane keyboard?
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Old 2nd February 2020, 11:35 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Why not just buy a membrane keyboard?
He has to use what he just bought on eBay. Otherwise, casebro is not casebro.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 02:44 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Why not just buy a membrane keyboard?
No,no no! Every Millennial knows, you must use a mechanical keyboard in order to be cool.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...6a3e4d995e9aed
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Old 2nd February 2020, 05:26 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
You will be laying this ELO 19" touchscreen monitor on your desk face-up. Two things...

The back of the monitor is not flat so it will be greatly elevated and wonky wobbly if you lay it down face-up. You already know this.

The angle that you are viewing this monitor may be outside of the normal limits and so the display might appear very dark or otherwise obscured. Maybe.

You could cut a big rectangular hole in your desk and custom mount the thing beneath so that the monitor surface is nearly flush with the desk surface. Anyway, I know you enough to know that you will probably proceed because it is a challenge and you do not avoid these things. You are drawn to construction/engineering challenges. Discouragement from others only serves to ramp up your desire and motivation.
O yeah,it's a huge fat 20 pound industrial monitor. But it has 170 degree viewing angle. And I figure to make a bracket to hold it at a reasonable angle. Even thin screens are not flat, and would need some kind of brace to be type-able..
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Old 2nd February 2020, 05:28 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
He has to use what he just bought on eBay. Otherwise, casebro is not casebro.
Casebro is as Casebroi does. http://imageevent.com/bigchriscase/p...svisecolumbian

And sometimes it's not the results, it's the process that counts. I've been so sedentary lately that even fussing with my desk top is good for me. Getting my ass out of the recliner- without over doing the exercise.
Today I sorted out all the wires under my desk, I've got twp computers plus peripherals. Plus wall warts for things I have long since disconnected. I had 14 things plugged in to three power strips. I eliminated one strip, two wall warts, and a couple cables. Who needs a 27 wire printer cable anymore? All while working on my flexibility.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 05:32 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
No,no no! Every Millennial knows, you must use a mechanical keyboard in order to be cool.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...6a3e4d995e9aed
Audible response won't help..... wheeeel, not clicking... what about text to voice? Stab at the J, if it says "K", I would know I'm ****** up without you needing to tell me!
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Old 2nd February 2020, 05:37 PM   #13
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Hmm, the impossibility of eliminating short cuts is that they are built in to the key board. Can't shut them off in the PC. Do you think the touch screen might not have any? I actually pulled a couple keys out of a previous keyboard.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 05:46 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
No,no no! Every Millennial knows, you must use a mechanical keyboard in order to be cool.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...6a3e4d995e9aed
Those aren't the cool ones. Try

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/

for the full mechanical keyboard cult experience.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 05:55 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Why not just buy a membrane keyboard?
Would it be even less tactile?

And think of the scale of the mouse motion on a touch screen. I use a thumb ball now, with a numb thumb....
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Old 2nd February 2020, 06:07 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
I'd think he'd wanted titled at a suitable angle for viewing, should be able to attach a support frame using the VISA mount points.
Initially maybe duct tape. Then maybe even aluminum billet.

Quote:
Hmm, might be more useful than my first thoughts as you might be able to expand the usual qwerty keys, swap layouts etc.
Yeah, that is also my hope. The touch screen uses a small driver card inside the monitor, then USB to the PC. There are probably options in the PC, these monitors can be used very basically as point-of-sale (aka POS, honest. ) or in gnarly work environments. And there are options for how to use two monitors- one above the other as a Taaaalll screen, or two of the same, one with the keyboard- maybe.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 06:08 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
No,no no! Every Millennial knows, you must use a mechanical keyboard in order to be cool.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...6a3e4d995e9aed
Does Underwood make keyboards? Remington-Rand?
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Old 2nd February 2020, 06:44 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Does Underwood make keyboards? Remington-Rand?
I have one of these

https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UNI0P4A

and it's probably as close as you can get to a keyboard that feels like a typewriter. Considering your issues, I think you're more likely to feel your way along with this keyboard than with a flat screen. Good clicky, positive feedback.
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Old 2nd February 2020, 07:57 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
I have one of these

https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/UNI0P4A

and it's probably as close as you can get to a keyboard that feels like a typewriter. Considering your issues, I think you're more likely to feel your way along with this keyboard than with a flat screen. Good clicky, positive feedback.
OK, Millennial!
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Old 2nd February 2020, 08:42 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
OK, Millennial!
You're a generation off. Just because I'm old doesn't mean I ever grew up.

Anyway, I can't imagine how people who actually type can tolerate the common, crappy keyboards. (I'm not a gamer; I'm an aspiring writer.) A nice Ducky with MX Cherry Black switches is a pleasure for me, since I have a heavy touch.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 01:47 AM   #21
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Back in the day, I used Dragon Dictate for a while.

It was awesome.

I'm imagining that there would be better products around today.

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Old 3rd February 2020, 04:02 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
You're a generation off. Just because I'm old doesn't mean I ever grew up.

Anyway, I can't imagine how people who actually type can tolerate the common, crappy keyboards. (I'm not a gamer; I'm an aspiring writer.) A nice Ducky with MX Cherry Black switches is a pleasure for me, since I have a heavy touch.
I was using a very cheap keyboard for the last year. I work in the dark and about a month ago (because my spacebar start activating at the lightest touch - not good) I finally looked at the keyboard and found that all the home row keys had deep dents and the A key had a literal hole worn through. I sprung for a much nicer split keyboard and after a couple days of reacclimation I'm faster, quieter, and much more comfortable.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 06:24 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
I was using a very cheap keyboard for the last year. I work in the dark and about a month ago (because my spacebar start activating at the lightest touch - not good) I finally looked at the keyboard and found that all the home row keys had deep dents and the A key had a literal hole worn through. I sprung for a much nicer split keyboard and after a couple days of reacclimation I'm faster, quieter, and much more comfortable.
I used a split keyboard for many years. I rescued it from a wastebasket at work -- some idiot had spilled coffee on it and chucked it. Five seconds with a sharp knife fixed the sticky keys. It was the old, beige Microsoft one that I believe they stopped making long ago.

I admit I got a bit silly with mechanical keyboards a couple of years ago. I now have a "collection," and almost got to the point of getting a soldering iron so I could make some custom ones.

Hobbies are the best excuse for irrational behavior.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 06:57 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
......

Hobbies are the best excuse for irrational behavior.
Bingo.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 07:07 AM   #25
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Anybody else ever try GKOS? Global Keyboard Operating System. On some kbds you can keep your fingers on home row, and push chords- multiple keys at the same time. With shortcuts you can type a whole word in the time it takes to hit one key. Or open the back of the kbd, solder in some wires, make some hand pieces with 4 microswitches each.... BUT the chord is set when releasing the keys at once. About the time I could punch in the whole "Quick brown fox jumped..." my fore arms cramped up. It's a motion I just can't put up with.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 07:20 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Anybody else ever try GKOS? Global Keyboard Operating System. On some kbds you can keep your fingers on home row, and push chords- multiple keys at the same time. With shortcuts you can type a whole word in the time it takes to hit one key. Or open the back of the kbd, solder in some wires, make some hand pieces with 4 microswitches each.... BUT the chord is set when releasing the keys at once. About the time I could punch in the whole "Quick brown fox jumped..." my fore arms cramped up. It's a motion I just can't put up with.
Maybe novaphile's idea of dictation software would be your best choice.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 07:52 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
Maybe novaphile's idea of dictation software would be your best choice.
A minute of googling says there is one built in to windows, since win7 or before. But it's not supposed to be too good. Besides, I have Ubuntu. Best ones, win or Lin, are Google or Alexa. Server based, cloud. It takes some AI. And I think Big Comp already knows to much about me. Ubuntu, Firefox, Thunderbird rather than Google for EVERYTHING. Besides, I don't even have a mic for my desktop. And enough people think I'm crazy already, I don't need to be mumbling to myself to add to that vision.

On screen kbd aps are in most PCs. I pulled mine up. Looks just like the one in my phone, but lots bigger. Could be do-able.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 08:27 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
On screen kbd aps are in most PCs. I pulled mine up. Looks just like the one in my phone, but lots bigger. Could be do-able.
Onboard is a good idea -- I didn't realize you used Ubuntu. I use onboard all the time on my media computers. It's slow going, but if you resize the kbd so it's not too big, you can reduce mouse travel.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 09:25 AM   #29
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casebro, Apple has QuickPath keyboard available on iOS and iPadOS, so an iPhone and iPad can be used for swipe-type.

Randy Marsden, who's Linkedin webpage shows him as a Special Projects Manager at Apple, says he's "a serial entrepreneur with a focus on specialized computer-human interface solutions (both for people with disabilities and the mainstream). Over the years, I've founded or co-founded 5 companies, and have successfully commercialized over 12 different hardware and software products that including onscreen keyboards for Windows & Mac, Swype, a head-tracking camera, an aseptic keyboard called Cleankeys, and my latest endeavor: DRYFT (natural typing for touch screens). I'm an engineer and can interact comfortably with both hardware and software creation.

Maybe contact Apple, in Cupertino, California, and ask what they can do for your typing/touch screen needs? Maybe an iPad would be a good solution for your touchscreen needs?

You mentioned you're using a PC, so I apologize for suggesting a Mac. But I wonder if an iPad would be a good solution for your typing needs?
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Old 3rd February 2020, 11:18 AM   #30
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Apple gear plays less well with Linux than it does Windows in my experience.

Linux mint with ipads and iphones.
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Old 3rd February 2020, 04:51 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
I used a split keyboard for many years. I rescued it from a wastebasket at work -- some idiot had spilled coffee on it and chucked it. Five seconds with a sharp knife fixed the sticky keys. It was the old, beige Microsoft one that I believe they stopped making long ago.

I admit I got a bit silly with mechanical keyboards a couple of years ago. I now have a "collection," and almost got to the point of getting a soldering iron so I could make some custom ones.

Hobbies are the best excuse for irrational behavior.
Microsoft is still big in the split keyboard space. The one I bought is pretty close to the original, which I used for years. It's huge with a spacious palm rest and, critically for me, the 6 key is on the left. I tried a different brand once and they placed it on the right. My brain couldn't adjust.
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Old 12th February 2020, 06:13 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
Onboard is a good idea -- I didn't realize you used Ubuntu. I use onboard all the time on my media computers. It's slow going, but if you resize the kbd so it's not too big, you can reduce mouse travel.
"Onboard", the app, was not what I meant at the time. But I did install it to get a full kbd. It has size options. And feedback- both a click sound and a pic of what you actually hit pop up. I think I am going to like that.

But the touch department won't pinch, zoom, drag/drop. Looks like I need to get into cmd to fix that.

Meantime, since last little update, my monitor resolution is NFG. Settings show "Unknown Monitor", resolution max is only 1024x768 (+/-). On 3 different kinds of monitors. Background pic and the Bionic Beaver are full size though. So I don't think it is as deep as grub. Using onboard Intel video, I can't get driver to reset. Might be a bad cable not letting gamma though, but all three? Nor does the PC notice 2 monitors, so I can't set each differently. It puts the same veiw on both, kbd included. Drat, I have to wade into cmd stuff.
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Old 14th February 2020, 07:30 PM   #33
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Ok. bad cable or two or ??? Two cables, neither works on the previous 22". But one does work on the 19" touchscreen.Jo Ann Castle But even that combo won't work if I plug in the splitter. So, I need at least another splitter + another VGA cable.

Monitors do ID themselves to the computer via the cable. But the pin-outs don't show a specific wire that does it. Smoke signals maybe? So I can't actually fix a cable. Drat, I hate Fry's.
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Old 15th February 2020, 05:56 AM   #34
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As you say, the EDID should give the monitor info to the GPU. The resolution problem would probably not be from the cable, though. I've had bad HDMI ports on monitors, and those just didn't work at all. Same with bad cables -- they usually just don't work. However, you could try a VGA or DVI cable just to see what happens.

Although I've never seen it happen with an internal GPU, it's possible that it's baked. I've had this happen with NICs a few times, even on high-end motherboards. The Intel driver I've always found very solid on Linux and everywhere else, so I don't think that's it.

I remember when I had to supply the VSync and HSync values in a config file to make X work. Your problems seem even more annoying than that.
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Old 15th February 2020, 06:11 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
I don't understand how it might help your typing. Tapping on a flat surface with no feedback from keys is more difficult than typing on a traditional mechanical keyboard. It's why that [neat] device that projected a keyboard on any surface didn't take off. It was a very cool implementation with a fundamental flaw. Touch typing - quickly at least - requires some tactile feedback.

I type for a living and I'm always amazed by the ability of some people to very quickly type on their phone with the little on-screen keyboard (I'm hopeless), but at the end of the day I know I could beat all but the very best of them by using a proper physical keyboard, in speed and accuracy.

I've stopped at keyboard and mouse. because it's the most effective way. All the kids with touchscreens can just get off my lawn.
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Old 15th February 2020, 08:26 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by eerok View Post
As you say, the EDID should give the monitor info to the GPU. The resolution problem would probably not be from the cable, though. I've had bad HDMI ports on monitors, and those just didn't work at all. Same with bad cables -- they usually just don't work. However, you could try a VGA or DVI cable just to see what happens.

Although I've never seen it happen with an internal GPU, it's possible that it's baked. I've had this happen with NICs a few times, even on high-end motherboards. The Intel driver I've always found very solid on Linux and everywhere else, so I don't think that's it.

I remember when I had to supply the VSync and HSync values in a config file to make X work. Your problems seem even more annoying than that.
Many hints on the net for "unkn0wn monitor" say bad cable. And since one cable works the ELO monitor and the other cable doesn't, I'm going with that premise. Plus a powered/amplified splitter box.

But my 22" monitor may be going sour too. I think I replaced caps in it a couple years ago. It had gotten damn slow to start. Later it's resolution dropped. That was just before I started on the dual monitor escapade. Was the cable going bad?

I've got a xfx r7800 graphics card that came in the PC, but I've never gotten so much as a pixel out of it. No fan function either. I'm going to look at the power connections on it.
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Old 15th February 2020, 08:30 AM   #37
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If you have usb 3 maybe a usb dock with multiple graphics ports?
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Old 15th February 2020, 10:08 AM   #38
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Latest: I opened it up, re-installed that FXF card, moved the power wire to a different slot on the PS, and now the DVI from the card works. At least on the 19" Veiwsonic. OR the ELO works on the Intel VGA output. But not both types/cards/drivers at the same time. So, now I need an adapter DVI to VGA, get two monitors on the big graphix card. Problems solved-maybe.

There are not nearly as many computer parts stores around today as there were 10 years ago. Burn a couple gallons of gas or wait a few days for the mailman with an Ebay package?
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Old 20th February 2020, 01:43 PM   #39
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Okay, I've got two monitors running now. They both seem to have to run the same low size/resolution. Darn it. And that is even lower than the small monitor, 1024x768.
hmmm, need to surf a bit more....
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