ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags 2020 elections , democratic party , presidential candidates

Reply
Old 14th February 2020, 09:09 PM   #2401
Arcade22
Philosopher
 
Arcade22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6,014
Quote:
“The people who disrupted that fundraiser were all queer people of color,” Pollydore said. “We’re allowed to want the gay candidate who is running to do better and be better for queer communities of color. There’s nothing homophobic about that.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...sts-fundraiser

It's pretty presumptuous to treat him as the "gay candidate", as if the fact that he's gay obligates him to represent the "gay community" or it's supposed interests.

From the way he's been presenting himself it's clear he's not "the gay candidate", rather he's a candidate that happens to be gay.
__________________
We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr
Arcade22 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 01:11 AM   #2402
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,462
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I asked my very liberal cousin in Minnesota what she thought of Klobuchar. Not a fan.
Back when the NY Times was against Klobuchar (because she was the white Kamala Harris), they published a pretty memorable article about her nasty treatment of her staff.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 01:58 AM   #2403
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,462
Good article on the tough financial times ahead for Warren, Biden and (potentially) Klobuchar and Buttigieg.

Quote:
In just two weeks, the Democratic race will transition overnight from the charming theaters of the early caucus and primary states into a full-scale national campaign, dominated by Gross Ratings Points and pre-roll ads and media appearances instead of handshakes and whimsy. Reporters accustomed to daily press gaggles will begin to see the candidates more on a Delta backseat television than in person. More than a dozen states and territories will vote on Super Tuesday, little more than two days after the polls close in South Carolina’s primary. That short window, every four years, shines a harsh light on whoever emerges from the first four states with a pulse. It reveals which campaigns are serious built-to-last enterprises, and punishes the ones that are flash-in-the-plan flukes, destined only for Wikipedia entries about the 2020 primary race.
And that's the problem for most of the campaigns; they are focused on the next two states (Nevada and South Carolina) just to stay alive, but on March 3, California and Texas are up for grabs along with a whole bunch of other states and territories.

Conclusion: Who's got the money?

Bernie and Bloomie.

Quote:
The Democratic primary is careening toward a head-to-head clash between Michael Bloomberg and Bernie Sanders, currently the only two candidates with the cash and constituencies to push their candidacies beyond the first four states and Super Tuesday. Who else can scale up? “This is a huge issue,” said David Axelrod, the former Barack Obama adviser. “The cost of competing across 14 states is astronomical and the remaining candidates will expend most of their limited kitties to get there. For Bloomberg, the Super Tuesday ante is lunch money. He will be able to communicate at a high level everywhere. Bernie has a reliable, renewable war chest and universal recognition. For the others, they have to hope to catch a wave of publicity and dollars off of unexpected showings in Nevada and South Carolina.”
I would also point out that the betting markets foresee the same matchup with Sanders currently at 39.0% to win and Bloomberg at 34.6%.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

Last edited by Brainster; 15th February 2020 at 02:02 AM.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 02:09 AM   #2404
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 11,088
Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Quid Pro Joe Biden told a group of black leaders that black parents can't read or write:

"Joe Biden reportedly shocked a group of black leaders last year when he said that parents in black communities can’t read or write. The comment, reported by The New York Times, is said to have been uttered by the former vice president during a private meeting with black mayors in Georgia."


https://www.thedailybeast.com/biden-...ad-says-report
an obvious ploy to get Trump supporters to vote for him instead.
__________________
“Impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”-Sen. Lindsey Graham
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 12:47 PM   #2405
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,462
Bloomberg is reportedly considering making Hillary his VP candidate. Seems odd and risky, unless his plan is to get elected and then step down in favor of Clinton.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 12:54 PM   #2406
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 25,124
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Bloomberg is reportedly considering making Hillary his VP candidate. Seems odd and risky, unless his plan is to get elected and then step down in favor of Clinton.
They're both from the same state.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 01:01 PM   #2407
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 11,088
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Bloomberg is reportedly considering making Hillary his VP candidate. Seems odd and risky, unless his plan is to get elected and then step down in favor of Clinton.
If his team is as clever as I think, this might be a clever way to lower expectations ... in order to exceed them.
Clinton won't agree to be VP unless she could be certain Bloomberg will resign within 24 hours after inauguration.
__________________
“Impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”-Sen. Lindsey Graham
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 01:05 PM   #2408
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 41,983
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
They're both from the same state.
Hillary is from Illinois. Bloomberg is from Massachusetts. Either you're being sarcastic, or your analysis is rubbish.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 01:09 PM   #2409
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 41,983
"Billionaire Democrat ousts incumbent, installs preferred candidate."

That's a headline that would destroy the DNC for a hundred years.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 01:19 PM   #2410
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,462
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Hillary is from Illinois. Bloomberg is from Massachusetts. Either you're being sarcastic, or your analysis is rubbish.
They both currently reside in New York, which matters for the electoral college. Bloomberg would have to change his official residence to one of the other homes he owns in Florida or Colorado. You may recall that Dick Cheney changed his official residence to Wyoming from Texas in order to run with GW Bush.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 03:42 PM   #2411
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 26,502
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Bloomberg is reportedly considering making Hillary his VP candidate. Seems odd and risky, unless his plan is to get elected and then step down in favor of Clinton.
Who came up with this plan? The Russians?!
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 04:12 PM   #2412
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 19,415
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Bloomberg is reportedly considering making Hillary his VP candidate. Seems odd and risky, unless his plan is to get elected and then step down in favor of Clinton.
Let's guess, this is being "reported" by right-wing media who are parroting the actual Fake News that is being created in Eastern Europe countries to make money and sow dissent?
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 04:37 PM   #2413
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 23,698
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"Billionaire Democrat ousts incumbent, installs preferred candidate."

That's a headline that would destroy the DNC for a hundred years.
Give them some credit - they appear to be giving it a good shot.

Republicans have Never Trumpers; Democrats have Never Berns.

Just a lot more of them.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 04:37 PM   #2414
Giz
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,653
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Bloomberg is reportedly considering making Hillary his VP candidate. Seems odd and risky, unless his plan is to get elected and then step down in favor of Clinton.
‘Risky’ in that he might suddenly become suicidal?
Giz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 06:21 PM   #2415
The_Animus
Illuminator
 
The_Animus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,159
I really don't want a racist, sexist, out of touch billionaire Republican to win in 2020.

I'm of course referring to Bloomberg
The_Animus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 07:38 PM   #2416
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5,895
Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
I really don't want a racist, sexist, out of touch billionaire Republican to win in 2020.

I'm of course referring to Bloomberg
I don't want him to win the primaries. If he does, though, he'll still be the vastly, vastly lesser evil compared to Trump.
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.
Aridas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 08:24 PM   #2417
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 78,977
Well I just got my friggin primary ballot and what a set up for spoiler votes. Trump is the only GOP candidate and you only have to declare your party when you vote.

I wonder who the spoilers are going to favor and I hope the DNC is paying attention to this pending flaw.
__________________
TRUMP CHEATS What color hat should I order with that logo? Red on black maybe? Or black on pink?

Space Force.
Because feeding poor people is socialism.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 08:47 PM   #2418
Delphic Oracle
Illuminator
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 4,126
Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
I don't want him to win the primaries. If he does, though, he'll still be the vastly, vastly lesser evil compared to Trump.
Between stop-and-frisk, the airspace-closing, journalist-arresting, smash-and-grab operation that ended OWS, and having rules changed to allow himself more terms in office.

Sorry, he's the candidate I am actually 100% ok with skipping on in the general.

He's already done most of the **** we worry Trump might do any day now.

But I'm in an R+10 state, so I get to be principled, secure in the knowledge I will make not one bit of difference at all. So there's that.
Delphic Oracle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 09:54 PM   #2419
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,462
Originally Posted by Giz View Post
‘Risky’ in that he might suddenly become suicidal?
Or that Hillary might become homicidal.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 10:41 PM   #2420
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5,895
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Between stop-and-frisk, the airspace-closing, journalist-arresting, smash-and-grab operation that ended OWS, and having rules changed to allow himself more terms in office.
Plenty more than that, honestly.

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Sorry, he's the candidate I am actually 100% ok with skipping on in the general.
Honestly, I actually like Gabbard less.

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
He's already done most of the **** we worry Trump might do any day now.
On the positive side, given the "Democrat" side that he's positioning himself on, if he gets caught doing the kind of overtly criminal stuff that Trump keeps getting away with, he'll almost certainly get impeached and removed with the support of the Democrats.

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
But I'm in an R+10 state, so I get to be principled, secure in the knowledge I will make not one bit of difference at all. So there's that.
Meh. Outcomes are not foregone, especially in cases where huge portions of the legitimate voters just aren't voting (especially out of despair) - aka just about all of the US. Vote!
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

Last edited by Aridas; 15th February 2020 at 10:49 PM.
Aridas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 10:45 PM   #2421
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 19,415
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
But I'm in an R+10 state, so I get to be principled, secure in the knowledge I will make not one bit of difference at all. So there's that.
Of you can get 90% of democratic voters out, then that 10 point advantage might vanish. If all the democrat voters go "my vote won't matter," then it won't.
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 10:54 PM   #2422
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 53,705
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Or that Hillary might become homicidal.
"Become"? She's been Vince Fostering people up and down the Beltway for decades. Hillary Clinton just loves murder. It's like crack to her. Her eyes light up and she starts breathing funny, it really adds a new layer of stress when you host a fancy dinner party and she's a guest. The pantsuits were never about image, they are about ease of movement when stalking terrorstricken victims through a foggy forest in the dead of the night.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 10:58 PM   #2423
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,462
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
"Become"? She's been Vince Fostering people up and down the Beltway for decades. Hillary Clinton just loves murder. It's like crack to her. Her eyes light up and she starts breathing funny, it really adds a new layer of stress when you host a fancy dinner party and she's a guest. The pantsuits were never about image, they are about ease of movement when stalking terrorstricken victims through a foggy forest in the dead of the night.
And whatever you do, don't go down in the basement! She's bound to be waiting for you with her machete.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 11:35 PM   #2424
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5,895
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
And whatever you do, don't go down in the basement! She's bound to be waiting for you with her machete.
Perhaps it might be worth a reminder not to go to that pizza place, too? You just really don't want to see what's going on there.
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.
Aridas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 11:52 PM   #2425
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,462
Klobuchar tries to row back some of her past votes:

Quote:
Campaigning in Las Vegas, the three-term Minnesota senator said Friday that she has changed her stance since voting for an English-language amendment in 2007 and has “taken a strong position against” it.
And:

Quote:
The senator also faced questions about comments she made about border security during a 2006 campaign debate, and her 2007 vote for an immigration bill that would have beefed up fencing and enforcement among the U.S.-Mexico border.

In a recently resurfaced video of the debate, Klobuchar says the U.S. needs more resources at the border. “We need to get order at the border,” including a fence, and she says she would stop giving amnesty to companies that hire immigrants in the country illegally. She also backed giving people in the U.S. illegally the chance to earn citizenship if they are willing to pay taxes, learn English and pay a fine.

After taking office in 2007, she voted in favor of a bill that called for 370 miles (595 kilometers) of “triple-layered (border) fencing” and 500 miles (800 kilometers) of vehicle barriers. It also sought to roughly double the number of Border Patrol agents from about 12,000 at the time, adding 11,600 agents over five years. Obama and then-New York Sen. Hillary Clinton also voted for the bill. Sanders voted no. He said in 2015 that he opposed the 2007 bill because it included a guest worker program that would allow too many low-wage workers into the U.S.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 11:55 PM   #2426
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 11,088
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Or that Hillary might become homicidal.
don't you know that she already killed hundreds with her bare hands?
__________________
“Impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”-Sen. Lindsey Graham
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th February 2020, 11:59 PM   #2427
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 26,502
Originally Posted by Giz View Post
‘Risky’ in that he might suddenly become suicidal?
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Or that Hillary might become homicidal.
I think that was the joke.

Or maybe there will be a headline like this...

"Hillary Clinton was sworn in as 47th president today on Air Force One, after President Bloomberg accidentally brutally stabbed himself to death while shaving in preparation for his inauguration speech."
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2020, 01:33 AM   #2428
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 23,683
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
I would also point out that the betting markets foresee the same matchup with Sanders currently at 39.0% to win and Bloomberg at 34.6%.
I don't like that Bloomberg is in that position just because he's rich. I'm sure there are hundreds (thousands??) of people who would make great candidates and presidents but remain unknown just because they aren't billionaires.

This aspect of our political system sucks big time.
SezMe is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2020, 01:35 AM   #2429
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 23,683
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
And whatever you do, don't go down in the basement! She's bound to be waiting for you with her machete.
.... pizza slicer.
SezMe is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2020, 02:48 AM   #2430
PhantomWolf
Penultimate Amazing
 
PhantomWolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 19,415
Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
I don't like that Bloomberg is in that position just because he's rich. I'm sure there are hundreds (thousands??) of people who would make great candidates and presidents but remain unknown just because they aren't billionaires.

This aspect of our political system sucks big time.
Would you rather that billionaires such as Bloomberg got into that sort of position by convincing all of those people supporting him, most who likely earn less in 2-3 years than he does in a day, to bankroll him while he doesn't spend a penny?

Why are politicians that are only willing to put their supporter's money where their mouth's are so much better than ones who are actually willing to put their own money where their mouth is?
__________________

It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah
I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

PhantomWolf is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2020, 07:55 AM   #2431
Delphic Oracle
Illuminator
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 4,126
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Would you rather that billionaires such as Bloomberg got into that sort of position by convincing all of those people supporting him, most who likely earn less in 2-3 years than he does in a day, to bankroll him while he doesn't spend a penny?

Why are politicians that are only willing to put their supporter's money where their mouth's are so much better than ones who are actually willing to put their own money where their mouth is?
It's cute how you've turned someone spending their way to political power into a positive like that.
Delphic Oracle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2020, 12:06 PM   #2432
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17,462
Did some poking around on Bloomberg. He's definitely got some things that should make the other Democrats pounce when they get him on the debate stage.

For instance:

He endorsed George W. Bush and spoke at the 2004 Republican National Convention.

His gun control PAC ran $10 million in TV ads supporting Republican Senator Pat Toomey for re-election in 2016. Mike got it done; Toomey won by about 1.7 percentage points. Those of you railing about the Republican Senate have a good target for your ire.

His sexism and sexual harassment. When he found out an employee was pregnant, he reportedly told her to "kill it."
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2020, 12:18 PM   #2433
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 25,124
Trump has declared Bloomberg a racist because of Stop and Frisk, but it was just fine when it was Rudi doing it.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2020, 02:15 PM   #2434
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,872
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Between stop-and-frisk, the airspace-closing, journalist-arresting, smash-and-grab operation that ended OWS, and having rules changed to allow himself more terms in office.
Sorry, he's the candidate I am actually 100% ok with skipping on in the general.
He's already done most of the **** we worry Trump might do any day now.
In my opinion, that's completely the wrong attitude to take.

I can understand him not being your first choice to be the democratic nominee. I can understand you preferring that he not be anywhere near the white house. And while he did apologize for stop-and-frisk, I can understand if you don't think his apology is genuine.

But if it comes town to Trump vs. Bloomberg in a general election?

Bloomberg is pro-choice. He's unlikely to put any more hard-right social conservatives on the supreme court. He recognizes that global warming is an issue that needs attention. He's willing to raise taxes on the wealthy. Even if you assume Bloomberg is "just as bad" as Trump when it comes to things like stop-and-frisk, he is still far far better than him in other areas.

Deciding to 'sit out' the election just because he is your least favorite Democratic alternative means that you would be willing to deny thousands of women proper access to health care, all while the planet burns up, all the while you sit and sulk in the corner.
Quote:
But I'm in an R+10 state, so I get to be principled, secure in the knowledge I will make not one bit of difference at all. So there's that.
1) There is no guarantee that you're vote won't make a practical difference. After all, longshots do sometimes work out

2) Even if your vote doesn't change the outcome of the election, I think there is still value to voting for Trump's opponent. i.e. "You are so disliked that we will vote for this jerk over you".
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2020, 02:20 PM   #2435
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,872
Arrow

Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Trump has declared Bloomberg a racist because of Stop and Frisk, but it was just fine when it was Rudi doing it.
Not to mention just 2 years ago, when he suggested Chicago adopt the practice of stop-and-frisk.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ce/1570409002/

So, double-hypocrisy.

If the Democrats are smart, they will find some audio of Trump making that suggestion and put out campaign ads with it.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2020, 04:17 PM   #2436
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 26,502
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Not to mention just 2 years ago, when he suggested Chicago adopt the practice of stop-and-frisk.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ce/1570409002/

So, double-hypocrisy.

If the Democrats are smart, they will find some audio of Trump making that suggestion and put out campaign ads with it.
Assuming it makes a difference.

Trump supporters don’t care about:

a) his double standards
b) his racism

In fact, worse than that, you are advertising what they see as virtues.
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2020, 07:10 PM   #2437
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 23,683
While that's true, angrysoba, (what are you angry about? ) Trumps die-hard fans are not the target of such tactics. They're aimed at squishy Trump voters. At people who voted Trump in 2016 in the context, "Well, he's different. Maybe things will change." At those who only marginally follow politics and such an ad might just catch them at the right time.

And so on......
SezMe is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2020, 07:17 PM   #2438
SezMe
post-pre-born
 
SezMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 23,683
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Would you rather that billionaires such as Bloomberg got into that sort of position by convincing all of those people supporting him, most who likely earn less in 2-3 years than he does in a day, to bankroll him while he doesn't spend a penny?
False choice. I prefer that money in politics be minimized to the extent possible. There are a myriad of possible ways to do this, some good, some probably pretty bad. But I support the intent.

To be honest, in my ideal world, there would be no billionaires. What can you do with $150 billion that you can't do with $150 million? So, in that world, there would be no pols buying an office or fat cats buying a judgeship.

Of course, that's not where we live. But I support policies that move us in that direction. Bloomberg buying a place on the debate stage moves us in the wrong direction.
SezMe is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2020, 07:30 PM   #2439
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,872
Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
To be honest, in my ideal world, there would be no billionaires. What can you do with $150 billion that you can't do with $150 million? So, in that world, there would be no pols buying an office....

Of course, that's not where we live. But I support policies that move us in that direction. Bloomberg buying a place on the debate stage moves us in the wrong direction.
Maybe. On the other hand, while it may be bad from a symbolic point of view to have a Billionaire 'buy' his way into an election, if he truly is the best candidate to defeat Trump, he would likely appoint left-of-center judges to the supreme court (compared to the right-wing ones Trump would appoint). Those center-left judges would be the ones best in position to address campaign finance issues (as well as voter suppression, gerrymandering, etc.)
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th February 2020, 07:31 PM   #2440
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 22,267
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Maybe. On the other hand, while it may be bad from a symbolic point of view to have a Billionaire 'buy' his way into an election, if he truly is the best candidate to defeat Trump, he would likely appoint left-of-center judges to the supreme court (compared to the right-wing ones Trump would appoint). Those center-left judges would be the ones best in position to address campaign finance issues (as well as voter suppression, gerrymandering, etc.)
Just symbolic, huh?
Sideroxylon is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:23 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.