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Old 26th January 2020, 12:44 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
This is certainly untrue. a number of Irish 'terrorists' were resident in the US and extradition requested and refused.
https://repository.uchastings.edu/cg...ive_law_review
The figures are for the treaty which came into effect in 2007.
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Old 26th January 2020, 02:50 AM   #162
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All of that shows there is no precedent to break for sending Sacoolas back to the UK. She could and should be extradited.
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Old 26th January 2020, 03:08 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
This is apparently the first time that the US has denied extradition to the UK in the history of our extradition agreement.
The first time since the current treaty was put in place in 2007.
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Old 26th January 2020, 07:22 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
All of that shows there is no precedent to break for sending Sacoolas back to the UK. She could and should be extradited.
His parents snubbed Trump, until Trump has gone there is no chance of her being extradited.
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Old 14th February 2020, 02:17 PM   #165
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And again;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-51510531

"A new video has emerged on social media of a car being driven on the wrong side of the road outside the RAF base near where 19-year-old Harry Dunn died.
Mr Dunn was killed after a crash by RAF Croughton in Northamptonshire which led to suspect Anne Sacoolas leaving the UK under diplomatic immunity.
The footage appears to have been recorded on Thursday."

That has happened despite various new signs and road markings outside the base. The car in the video turns right from the base, straight onto the wrong side of the road.
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Old 14th February 2020, 02:23 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
And again;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-51510531

"A new video has emerged on social media of a car being driven on the wrong side of the road outside the RAF base near where 19-year-old Harry Dunn died.
Mr Dunn was killed after a crash by RAF Croughton in Northamptonshire which led to suspect Anne Sacoolas leaving the UK under diplomatic immunity.
The footage appears to have been recorded on Thursday."

That has happened despite various new signs and road markings outside the base. The car in the video turns right from the base, straight onto the wrong side of the road.
So, it exits the base in the left lane and goes straight into the right lane of the road. ffs.
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Old 14th February 2020, 02:30 PM   #167
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That is two recent incidents caught on dash cam. Dash cams are still rare. How many more have happened that have not been filmed, or the driver has corrected him/herself before encountering an oncoming vehicle?

I am sorry, but there either has to be someone from the base, who is posted to stand at the entrance and guide people onto the correct side of the road, or preferably, all US personnel have to use UK drivers.
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Old 14th February 2020, 02:47 PM   #168
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Or, do like they do around ferry ports on the East Coast. Put up lots of "Keep Left" signs near the bases
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Old 14th February 2020, 03:18 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
That is two recent incidents caught on dash cam. Dash cams are still rare. How many more have happened that have not been filmed, or the driver has corrected him/herself before encountering an oncoming vehicle?

I am sorry, but there either has to be someone from the base, who is posted to stand at the entrance and guide people onto the correct side of the road, or preferably, all US personnel have to use UK drivers.
Are these people using right or left-hand drive vehicles? If they're using left-hand drive vehicles, I can sort of understand the instinct of a lifelong US driver to move to the right (sort of - it's not like they don't know they're in the UK). If they're using right-hand drive vehicles, then driving on the right side of a two-way road should feel weirder than driving on the left.

In any case, the fundamental problem is that these people aren't concentrating on their driving. They're probably listening to music/podcasts/whatever, talking on the phone, etc. There's no good excuse for this.

What the base should do is station MPs to watch for this crap and fine or remove driving privileges from everybody who ***** up.
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Old 14th February 2020, 03:32 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Are these people using right or left-hand drive vehicles? If they're using left-hand drive vehicles, I can sort of understand the instinct of a lifelong US driver to move to the right (sort of - it's not like they don't know they're in the UK). If they're using right-hand drive vehicles, then driving on the right side of a two-way road should feel weirder than driving on the left.

In any case, the fundamental problem is that these people aren't concentrating on their driving. They're probably listening to music/podcasts/whatever, talking on the phone, etc. There's no good excuse for this.

What the base should do is station MPs to watch for this crap and fine or remove driving privileges from everybody who ***** up.
They should hang her high and leave her gibbeted body dangling outside of the gates of the base. Then there would be no more driving on the wrong side of the road (it is simple to remember; left is right, right is wrong, the flagon with the dragon has the potion with lotion).
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Old 14th February 2020, 05:09 PM   #171
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The British government should hire bounty hunters to apprehend this bitch and ship her back to England for punishment.
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Old 14th February 2020, 05:11 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
left is right, right is wrong
in politics as well as driving
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Old 15th February 2020, 12:38 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Are these people using right or left-hand drive vehicles? If they're using left-hand drive vehicles, I can sort of understand the instinct of a lifelong US driver to move to the right (sort of - it's not like they don't know they're in the UK). If they're using right-hand drive vehicles, then driving on the right side of a two-way road should feel weirder than driving on the left.
It's very hard to see why they'd be in LHD vehicles. Importing them seems like a lot of pointless and perverse work, especially as the road layout within the base is 'drive on the left'.
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Old 15th February 2020, 06:17 AM   #174
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In practical terms this is the same issue as at ferry ports, where the problem is addressed by signs reminding drivers to keep left, not just once but at several points where people tend to get it wrong after junctions or whatever. The difference is that getting off a ferry is a rare experience for most so they're concentrating. Driving off base is an everyday task and your concentration is naturally lower. I expect it can still be addressed by signs, but they need to be very clear and repeated for some distance. Maybe a no-fault self-reporting system would help identify places an extra sign would assist others. If say there's a petrol station near the base, that's exactly the sort of place you might make a mistake: pull in, fill up and drive off forgetting to keep left. One extra sign might prevent another accident.
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Old 15th February 2020, 08:11 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
The British government should hire bounty hunters to apprehend this bitch and ship her back to England for punishment.

Most likely specifically disallowed by an extradition treaty. The US had exactly such a case where a bounty hunter brought someone back, the source nation complained, and the Supreme Court said sorry, US. The treaty does not allow that, send him back.

If there were none, it's all good, but not here.
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Old 15th February 2020, 08:17 AM   #176
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I can make a half-hearted defense of why not to send her back. If she were drunk, that's one thing. A Russian diplomat in the US killed some people, and the Russian government waived immunity because it was so egregious.

But in this case, it was a mistake, a confusion. Those are the risks diplomats and their families take. Should they not get protection from stumbling over local laws?

I'm not saying this should be the deciding factor, but it is not without merit.
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Last edited by Beerina; 15th February 2020 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 15th February 2020, 08:25 AM   #177
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Took a hovercraft from France once, this was before the chunnel. When you exit there are signs all up the roads saying drive on the left. I can say the first time you pull up to an intersection and want to turn left, your mind starts flipping gymnastics trying to focus on what lane you want to go into, and then executing it.

Also Canterbury has the cutest lil' roundabout. It's literally a painted dot in the road.
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Old 15th February 2020, 09:05 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
I can make a half-hearted defense of why not to send her back. If she were drunk, that's one thing. A Russian diplomat in the US killed some people, and the Russian government waived immunity because it was so egregious.

But in this case, it was a mistake, a confusion. Those are the risks diplomats and their families take. Should they not get protection from stumbling over local laws?

I'm not saying this should be the deciding factor, but it is not without merit.
It was gross negligence. She knew where she was and she knew on which side of the road people drive there. She didn't make a mistake of fact, like not seeing a one-way sign. She made a mistake of carelessness, like running someone over in a parking lot. It wasn't intentional but it was reckless.
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Old 15th February 2020, 10:29 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post

Also Canterbury has the cutest lil' roundabout. It's literally a painted dot in the road.
A 'Mini Roundabout'

it's a junction that should be treated as a roundabout.
they are quite common in towns.
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Old 15th February 2020, 12:31 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
Most likely specifically disallowed by an extradition treaty. The US had exactly such a case where a bounty hunter brought someone back, the source nation complained, and the Supreme Court said sorry, US. The treaty does not allow that, send him back.

If there were none, it's all good, but not here.
I don't give a ****, and neither should the British. It's time America was brought to heel.
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Old 15th February 2020, 01:28 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
I don't give a ****, and neither should the British. It's time America was brought to heel.
Yeah, you can't piss and moan about Trump's flouting the rule of law in one thread, and piss on the rule of law in another.

Well, actually, you can, but it makes you look as hypocritical as those you claim to despise.
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Old 15th February 2020, 02:32 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Or, do like they do around ferry ports on the East Coast. Put up lots of "Keep Left" signs near the bases
They already did that, even that has not worked.
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Old 15th February 2020, 02:34 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
I can make a half-hearted defense of why not to send her back. If she were drunk, that's one thing. A Russian diplomat in the US killed some people, and the Russian government waived immunity because it was so egregious.

But in this case, it was a mistake, a confusion. Those are the risks diplomats and their families take. Should they not get protection from stumbling over local laws?

I'm not saying this should be the deciding factor, but it is not without merit.
Causing a death by dangerous driving is not stumbling over local laws. No country accepts people driving dangerously, so causing the death of another.
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Old 15th February 2020, 02:42 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post

But in this case, it was a mistake, a confusion. Those are the risks diplomats and their families take. Should they not get protection from stumbling over local laws?
It's not a good defence. The same applies to anybody hiring (say) a car where the driving side of the road is different. A Brit on vacation in the US, for example. Diplomats are offered protection to prevent legal harassment related to political matters.
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Old 15th February 2020, 02:48 PM   #185
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Examples of understandable stumbling over a local law would be getting parking restrictions wrong or not knowing about getting a MOT. Something that is particular to driving in the UK.

Diplomatic immunity is to stop harassment of diplomats. It should not be used to protect diplomats who commit serious crimes.
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