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Old 10th February 2020, 08:38 AM   #1201
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Why should "we" do anything about climate change, just look at China and India-Climate Change Deniers

Many people say that Sweden is just a small country and it doesn’t matter what we do. But I’ve learnt that no one is too small to make a difference-Greta Thunberg.

Dame Theory is the reason climate justice activism has managed to fail so miserably over the past few decades and will continue to fail miserably into the future-Stout
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Old 10th February 2020, 11:58 AM   #1202
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Dame Theory is the reason climate justice activism has managed to fail so miserably over the past few decades and will continue to fail miserably into the future-Stout
What has the fire at Notre dame and conspiracy loons got to do with Greta?
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Old 10th February 2020, 12:34 PM   #1203
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
What has the fire at Notre dame and conspiracy loons got to do with Greta?
Gamn typos....
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Old 10th February 2020, 11:03 PM   #1204
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Why should "we" do anything about climate change, just look at China and India-Climate Change Deniers

Many people say that Sweden is just a small country and it doesn’t matter what we do. But I’ve learnt that no one is too small to make a difference-Greta Thunberg.

Dame Theory is the reason climate justice activism has managed to fail so miserably over the past few decades and will continue to fail miserably into the future-Stout
I'm not advocating people not making changes to their individual lives. I've done so. I've never driven a car in my life and generally get around by bicycle or public transit. Here's a post from 2011 in which I describe how I avoid turning on the heat at home:

Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
The current temperature in Shanghai has been ranging around -2 to +5 degrees Celsius for the last few weeks. Nevertheless I haven't turned on the heater at home. Solution? Wear more clothes. When I get home, boil up a pot of water and put it in a hot water bottle, which I put on my lap while eating dinner, watching TV, etc. Eat hot soup. At night, we have a very small heater with a tube that can go under the blankets on my bed, it heats the bed in a couple of minutes, that and a hot water bottle keeps me warm at night, and by the time the bed might have cooled down, it's already been made warm by my body heat.
Most people here also use electric blankets, though I haven't tried that yet.

Point being, as you say, it's much more efficient to warm myself, my clothes, my food, my bed, etc. than to warm the entire room. Is it slightly less comfortable? Maybe, but it's a pretty easy solution to high energy use, and one that's been pretty easy for me to adapt to.
These days I do turn on the heat more often than I used to, but I still try to limit my use of it, as well as things like hot water. I also fly more often than I used to, which is probably the biggest thing I could try to cut down on.

I just don't think that asking others to do the same is a strategy that's going to work. If you want to rely on that, good luck.
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Old 11th February 2020, 02:12 AM   #1205
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
I'm not advocating people not making changes to their individual lives. I've done so. I've never driven a car in my life and generally get around by bicycle or public transit. Here's a post from 2011 in which I describe how I avoid turning on the heat at home:



These days I do turn on the heat more often than I used to, but I still try to limit my use of it, as well as things like hot water. I also fly more often than I used to, which is probably the biggest thing I could try to cut down on.

I just don't think that asking others to do the same is a strategy that's going to work. If you want to rely on that, good luck.
I would agree with this. Asking people to give up their comfort isn't going to work. That's why legislation is needed. Everyone needs to bear the burden, not just the few that are willing.
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Old 11th February 2020, 01:54 PM   #1206
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The only problem with legislation, is that it has to ultimately come from the people who don't want to give up their CO2 based lifestyle..
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Old 11th February 2020, 02:06 PM   #1207
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
I would agree with this. Asking people to give up their comfort isn't going to work. That's why legislation is needed. Everyone needs to bear the burden, not just the few that are willing.
The only way to accomplish that kind of legislation in a functioning democracy is to ask people to give up their comfort. If doing that isn't going to work, then we really are depending on China to make all the necessary cuts.
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Old 11th February 2020, 06:08 PM   #1208
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post

I just don't think that asking others to do the same is a strategy that's going to work. If you want to rely on that, good luck.
No, it's most defiantly not going to work, I've known this for decades. It is fun though, watching people not only refuse to, but actually argue against becoming the change they want to see in the world.

Unfortunately at this stage of the game it's all moot anyway.Climate change is pretty much a done deal. That's the reason Thunberg was so critical about the goings on at COP 25. It was all about adaptation to, rather than mitigating climate change.
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Old 11th February 2020, 06:40 PM   #1209
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Dame Theory is the name of my Annie Lennox tribute band.
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Old 11th February 2020, 09:16 PM   #1210
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The only way to accomplish that kind of legislation in a functioning democracy is to ask people to give up their comfort. If doing that isn't going to work, then we really are depending on China to make all the necessary cuts.
There's a difference between making a personal sacrifice when a small percentage of your peers are, in a situation where that sacrifice will only affect change if everyone makes it, and organizing among your peers to collectively make that sacrifice.

I brought up taxation earlier: I wouldn't expect people to donate their money to the government if there were no tax law, yet they will agree to be subject to such law if everyone else is, and even vote for representatives who raise taxes.

Collective action problems may require collective action, but they can be solved through collective action.
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Old 12th February 2020, 10:54 AM   #1211
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
The only problem with legislation, is that it has to ultimately come from the people who don't want to give up their CO2 based lifestyle..
If legislators are so wealthy that a carbon price has no meaning to them, isn’t the real problem than government is inordinately controlled by the ultra-rich?
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Old 12th February 2020, 04:00 PM   #1212
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No, the real problem is the electorate; either willfully or negligently.
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Old 12th February 2020, 04:22 PM   #1213
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I'm on 100% renewable ( hydroelectric ) and I'm paying a massive carbon tax on fuel. Political solution achieved yet I've still had Greta Thunberg out here wasting her time and Extintion Rebellion pulling their bridge blocking shtick.

Looks like activists want to protest for the sake of protesting, and The 'Gram, of course.
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Old 13th February 2020, 10:53 AM   #1214
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
No, the real problem is the electorate; either willfully or negligently.
You seem to be moving the goalposts because you started complaining about the people enacting the polices having enough money to be effectively immune to the negative impacts of policy to deal with climate change. To be perfectly honest even if this is true, I’m still sure why this is a problem for climate change policy to begin with. At the end of the day policy is either good or not. If it’s sound policy, why does it matter how much money the politicians enacting it have or don’t have?
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Old 13th February 2020, 06:18 PM   #1215
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
No, the real problem is the electorate; either willfully or negligently.
Australia already tried a carbon price and it worked. The opposition lied about the price increases in power being all due to the carbon price and were voted in and the carbon price removed. The Power price rises were mostly due to the power companies raising their own prices. In this case the politicians lied to their voters and boasted about how well they sold that lie.
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Old 13th February 2020, 06:22 PM   #1216
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
.. In this case the politicians lied to their voters and boasted about how well they sold that lie.
Then the voters should keep that in mind when the next elections roll around.

Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
You seem to be moving the goalposts because you started complaining about the people enacting the polices having enough money to be effectively immune to the negative impacts of policy to deal with climate change. To be perfectly honest even if this is true, I’m still sure why this is a problem for climate change policy to begin with. At the end of the day policy is either good or not. If it’s sound policy, why does it matter how much money the politicians enacting it have or don’t have?
You have totally lost me..

I'm only saying that it is the voters who ultimately control the politicians..

If the voters don't want to give up their CO2 based lifestyle, they are not going to vote for politicians who threaten to take it away from them.
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Old 13th February 2020, 08:48 PM   #1217
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Australia already tried a carbon price and it worked. The opposition lied about the price increases in power being all due to the carbon price and were voted in and the carbon price removed. The Power price rises were mostly due to the power companies raising their own prices. In this case the politicians lied to their voters and boasted about how well they sold that lie.
Yeah, that really pissed me off, that did.
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Old 13th February 2020, 10:10 PM   #1218
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Meanwhile back on the actual topic.

I see my prediction of it all being for a Greta doco' were right.
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Old 13th February 2020, 11:07 PM   #1219
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Well, of course. Daddy wasn't lugging around a camera everywhere they went for exercise.

Cannes film festival 2021 material for sure. Liberally edited to trim out embarrassing moments and augment the drama of teen angst for a cause.

This cause is her family cash cow, and milk doesn't keep long on these cause things.
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Old 13th February 2020, 11:09 PM   #1220
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The level of cynicism astounds me.
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Old 13th February 2020, 11:50 PM   #1221
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
The level of cynicism astounds me.
In what way?

It was always looking like a way to make a doco
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Old 14th February 2020, 08:50 AM   #1222
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
The level of cynicism astounds me.
Well then, you NEED to watch 2040 as a cure all for those we're-all-going-to-hell blues. There's lots of young people being totally awesome
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Old 15th February 2020, 06:17 AM   #1223
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https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-...inues/11966652


Renewable energy to cause power prices to fall.
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Old 15th February 2020, 09:38 AM   #1224
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Still no word when the Greta documentaries are going to air. I was hoping for Earth Day but now I'm thinking that the one year anniversary of her historic crossing of the Atlantic in August. I know it's longer to wait but it may be better to have the air series air dated to coincide with the highly anticipated IPCC report that's going to tell us that global CO2 emissions have fallen dramatically S.T. ( Since Thunberg)
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Old 15th February 2020, 09:18 PM   #1225
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I'm not planning on watching it myself.
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Old 16th February 2020, 11:53 AM   #1226
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Why not. Aren't you interesting in watching young Greta's transformation from a deeply disturbed child who could barely eat and only talk to certain people to world famous activist giving speeches all over the western world ? It's a miracle , it is.

Season two will follow her election to Prime Minister of Sweden where she enacts a zero emission policy by shutting down the ports and airports and banning all internal combustion engines. She's going to create the massive Swedish refugee problem ( Germany will take them in ) and Donald Trump will park a satellite over Sweden so we can all watch the Swedes return to the Viking age, only they'll be vegan, no furs. Hunger Games style.
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Old 16th February 2020, 01:39 PM   #1227
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Your overwrought histrionics are causing you great emotional distress.i would advise a cup of tea and a lie down. My concern is the real problem, global warming.
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Old 16th February 2020, 02:22 PM   #1228
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Trump's United States leads the world in percentage of reduction of carbon emissions since the year 2000.

https://pjmedia.com/trending/trigger...co2-emissions/
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Old 16th February 2020, 04:14 PM   #1229
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Originally Posted by BrooklynBaby View Post
Trump's United States leads the world in percentage of reduction of carbon emissions since the year 2000.

https://pjmedia.com/trending/trigger...co2-emissions/
Have not read the link yet to determine if it is reliable, but that was primarily GWB’s and Obama’s US.
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Old 16th February 2020, 05:57 PM   #1230
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Have not read the link yet to determine if it is reliable, but that was primarily GWB’s and Obama’s US.
I'd recommend following the first link to the IEA report and reading that, as my toes still haven't uncurled from reading the rest of the 'article'.
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Old 16th February 2020, 06:01 PM   #1231
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Why not. Aren't you interesting in watching young Greta's transformation from a deeply disturbed child...
ONE MORE TIME FOR THE KIDDIES AT HOME!

The person who called her "deeply disturbed" is a far right shock jock just barely shy of Alex Jones with a history of racism, sexism and ableism who used that term as a deliberate and calculated slur because he is a ****stain.

Unless you like sounding like a ****stain, stop calling her "deeply disturbed".
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Old 16th February 2020, 06:14 PM   #1232
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
ONE MORE TIME FOR THE KIDDIES AT HOME!

The person who called her "deeply disturbed" is a far right shock jock just barely shy of Alex Jones with a history of racism, sexism and ableism who used that term as a deliberate and calculated slur because he is a ****stain.

Unless you like sounding like a ****stain, stop calling her "deeply disturbed".
Might as well staple a neon sign to your forehead, "please troll me harder".

That being said, she's obviously profoundly agitated by the global climate policy situation. And isn't she autistic or something? That's at least superficially disturbed.

And we've established that she's not a brave campaigner. So as far as the thread title goes, we've only got the one option.
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Old 16th February 2020, 06:24 PM   #1233
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
And isn't she autistic or something? That's at least superficially disturbed.
She has Asperger's syndrome, which is on the autism spectrum. But calling that "disturbed" is nothing but a filthy slur.
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Old 16th February 2020, 06:34 PM   #1234
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
She has Asperger's syndrome, which is on the autism spectrum. But calling that "disturbed" is nothing but a filthy slur.
Neat.

Now address the rest of my post.
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Old 16th February 2020, 07:37 PM   #1235
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
ONE MORE TIME FOR THE KIDDIES AT HOME!

The person who called her "deeply disturbed" is a far right shock jock just barely shy of Alex Jones with a history of racism, sexism and ableism who used that term as a deliberate and calculated slur because he is a ****stain.

Unless you like sounding like a ****stain, stop calling her "deeply disturbed".
So ridiculous. you must work on your anger management problem, then go to a good old fashioned movie, like 2040, with a friend! Chill.

I don't know what Australia is like but not talking, not going to school, guilt tripping your mother into giving up her career, convincing your father to go vegan....may not be signs of a disturbed individual but they sure would be around here.

Now were you to put forth an argument that Greta is no longer disturbed, that her activism has cured her, you might get somewhere. You might also note the wording I used from->to

Now back to writing Greta fanfic. Think I'm going to have Greta team up with Harry Potter in my next episode.
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Old 16th February 2020, 07:53 PM   #1236
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I repeat - using the word "disturbed" to refer to a person on the autism spectrum is neurotypical priveleged ableism. It's exactly like referring to someone with a developmental disorder as a "retard". It's exactly as insulting, exactly as demeaning, and it really shows the poor quality of the person using the term.

It's something that I have come to expect from ****stains like Andrew Bolt. I expect better of people here.
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Old 16th February 2020, 07:55 PM   #1237
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
you must work on your anger management problem
My anger management problem? You're regurgitating the words of an insulting, ****-stirring bigot as though those words hold any validity. You bet I'm ******* angry.
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Old 16th February 2020, 07:57 PM   #1238
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Now address the rest of my post.
And what if I don't wanna?
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Old 16th February 2020, 08:06 PM   #1239
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I repeat - using the word "disturbed" to refer to a person on the autism spectrum is neurotypical priveleged ableism. It's exactly like referring to someone with a developmental disorder as a "retard". It's exactly as insulting, exactly as demeaning, and it really shows the poor quality of the person using the term.

It's something that I have come to expect from ****stains like Andrew Bolt. I expect better of people here.
So what's really at issue here is your interpretation of a commonly used word and the fact that someone you don't like ( and I've never heard of ) used the word.
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Old 16th February 2020, 08:11 PM   #1240
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Originally Posted by Stout View Post
So what's really at issue here is your interpretation of a commonly used word and the fact that someone you don't like ( and I've never heard of ) used the word.
I think you're lying when you say that you've never heard the word "disturbed" used to slur someone's mental health.

And even if you're being honest and you really didn't know it was a slur, you do now.
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