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Tags Russia incidents , Russia issues , Russia politics , vladimir putin

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Old 15th January 2020, 07:17 AM   #1
JoeMorgue
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"Entire" Russian Government Resigns.

CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/15/europ...ntl/index.html

Quote:
CNN - Moscow, Russia - The entire Russian government is resigning, Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev announced on Russian state television Wednesday.

Russian President Vladimir Putin thanked members of the government for their work but added that "not everything worked out." Putin added that in the near future he will meet with each member of the cabinet.

The announcement came after Putin proposed constitutional amendments that would weaken his successor and shift power to the prime minister and parliament.
Well that's... a thing.
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:22 AM   #2
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Interesting, especially the bit about weakening his successor. I guess he's starting to feel his age and is worried the next guy won't be the philosopher king that he is.
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:23 AM   #3
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I would welcome it if someone could explain to me what this means.
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:27 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I would welcome it if someone could explain to me what this means.
Seconded. I don't really understand the structure of the Russian parliament. I understand it even less now.
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:33 AM   #5
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So that's second WW3 this week month ?
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:34 AM   #6
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I didn't know coups could happen in reverse... and be passive aggressive. /jk
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:44 AM   #7
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Makes me think of the Senate under Caligula. Or the Reichstag passing the Enabling Act.
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:49 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Interesting, especially the bit about weakening his successor. I guess he's starting to feel his age and is worried the next guy won't be the philosopher king that he is.
Didn't they do this before?

Russia has term limits, but they don't apply to non-consecutive terms.

Putin was President from 2000-2008, but was then term limited out.

Putin then became Prime Minister and Medvedev was President. During that period Putin had less political power than he previously had as President, but Medvedev himself had less authority has President than Putin had previously. That lasted from 2008-2012. One term.

Then they switched again, because the term limits don't apply to non-consecutive terms. Putin back as President and now has as much power as ever, Medvedev as Prime Minister has less than Putin had when Putin was Prime Minister.

Now Putin-as-president is being term limited again, so he is making preparations to become Prime Minister again - making that role more powerful, President less so.

Putin is still relatively young and healthy. He'll do another 4-year stint as Prime Minister, then switch back to being President again. At which point the Presidency will revert to having full powers again.


ETA: That's my take on it, at least. I'm not the expert in such things.

Last edited by crescent; 15th January 2020 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:55 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Didn't they do this before?

Russia has term limits, but they don't apply to non-consecutive terms.

Putin was President from 2000-2008, but was then term limited out.

Putin then became Prime Minister and Medvedev was President. During that period Putin had less political power than he previously had as President, but Medvedev himself had less authority has President than Putin had previously. That lasted from 2008-2012. One term.

Then they switched again, because the term limits don't apply to non-consecutive terms. Putin back as President and now has as much power as ever, Medvedev as Prime Minister has less than Putin had when Putin was Prime Minister.

Now Putin-as-president is being term limited again, so he is making preparations to become Prime Minister again - making that role more powerful, President less so.

Putin is still relatively young and healthy. He'll do another 4-year stint as Prime Minister, then switch back to being President again. At which point the Presidency will revert to having full powers again.


ETA: That's my take on it, at least. I'm not the expert in such things.
Tha's the way I read it as well.
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:56 AM   #10
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But how will he maintain control without the bureaucracy?
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:56 AM   #11
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Ah so a sort of "No Putin we can see you setting a system where you abandon the powers of the position you have and transfer them to the position you hope (or full well know) you are going to have and we aren't going to fall for it" kind of thing?
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Old 15th January 2020, 07:59 AM   #12
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Now I looked at the BBC article:

Russian government resigns as Putin plans future

It's got this:

Quote:
The announcement comes four years before Mr Putin's fourth term of office is due to end.

Under the existing constitution he would not be entitled to another term and the Russian leader said during his speech to both chambers of parliament that there would be a nationwide vote on changes that would shift power from the presidency to parliament.

The government's resignation came as a surprise. Mr Medvedev has been prime minister for several years. He previously served as president from 2008-2012, switching roles with Mr Putin after the latter served his first two terms as president.

Russia's constitution only allows presidents to serve two consecutive terms.
The math does not add up. Putin gets two consecutive terms. Did they extend that term to 6 years? That's the only way he would still have four years left. When he was President earlier each term was four years.


ETA: According to Wikipedia, Russian Presidential terms are now indeed 6 years each. He's got four years left. That blows my own theory out of the water.

Last edited by crescent; 15th January 2020 at 08:03 AM.
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:02 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Ah so a sort of "No Putin we can see you setting a system where you abandon the powers of the position you have and transfer them to the position you hope (or full well know) you are going to have and we aren't going to fall for it" kind of thing?
Probably more of a quid pro quo negotiation tactic. Putin probably needs some amount of cooperation from them to make this work smoothly. This time around, they're saying they want to renegotiate.
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:36 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
The math does not add up. Putin gets two consecutive terms. Did they extend that term to 6 years? That's the only way he would still have four years left. When he was President earlier each term was four years.

Does telling you that his terms were not consecutive address your confusion? If not, you might want to actually show your math.
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:45 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Does telling you that his terms were not consecutive address your confusion? If not, you might want to actually show your math.
Putin had two terms during his first stint: 2000-2004, then 2004-2008. Four years per term.

Then he (Putin) was term limited. So he did a four year stint as Prime Minister, 2008-2012. Medvedev was then President for one four year term.

2012, Putin is back as President for his second (current) stint. If the terms were still for four years each, he would serve 2012-2016, then 2016 through 2020 before being term limited. That was my first thought.

But I was wrong. Beginning with Putin's term as President that began in 2012, each term is now six years each so this time around it is 2012-2018, then 2018-2024. He's still limited to two consecutive terms before needing a break, but his current term began in 2018 and does not end until 2024.

After 2024 he can take a break of some sort (perhaps being Prime Minister again) and then become President yet again. There is no limit on how many times a person can be president of Russia, they just can't serve more than two terms in a row. There is no limit on the number of non-consecutive terms.



ETA: The change from our year per term to six years per term was made in 2008, when Medvedev was President, but it was not enacted until the following term.

Last edited by crescent; 15th January 2020 at 08:56 AM.
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:46 AM   #16
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Unnecessary post.
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:55 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Didn't they do this before?

Russia has term limits, but they don't apply to non-consecutive terms.

Putin was President from 2000-2008, but was then term limited out.

Putin then became Prime Minister and Medvedev was President. During that period Putin had less political power than he previously had as President, but Medvedev himself had less authority has President than Putin had previously.
Officially, maybe. As the Russian joke from that period goes:

*beep* *beep*
"Hello. You have reached the office of Vladimir Medvedev, the President of the Russian Federation. To speak with President Medvedev, please press '2'."
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Old 15th January 2020, 08:56 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Didn't they do this before?

Russia has term limits, but they don't apply to non-consecutive terms.

Putin was President from 2000-2008, but was then term limited out.

Putin then became Prime Minister and Medvedev was President. During that period Putin had less political power than he previously had as President, but Medvedev himself had less authority has President than Putin had previously. That lasted from 2008-2012. One term.

Then they switched again, because the term limits don't apply to non-consecutive terms. Putin back as President and now has as much power as ever, Medvedev as Prime Minister has less than Putin had when Putin was Prime Minister.

Now Putin-as-president is being term limited again, so he is making preparations to become Prime Minister again - making that role more powerful, President less so.

Putin is still relatively young and healthy. He'll do another 4-year stint as Prime Minister, then switch back to being President again. At which point the Presidency will revert to having full powers again.


ETA: That's my take on it, at least. I'm not the expert in such things.
Probably right, I should have guessed as much.
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:20 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
So that's second WW3 this week month ?
No a certain snowflake was hysterical and wrong.
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:29 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
ETA: The change from our year per term to six years per term was made in 2008, when Medvedev was President, but it was not enacted until the following term.
Now wasn't that a surprise.
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:39 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Now wasn't that a surprise.
No, but it is not uncommon for such changes to not effect the current occupant. See the 22 amendment of the US constitution and how it did not apply to Truman.
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Old 15th January 2020, 02:57 PM   #22
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Hey, Purges are an old Russian Custom.....
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Old 15th January 2020, 10:27 PM   #23
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In communist Russia, President chooses you!
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Old 15th January 2020, 11:12 PM   #24
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Probably doesn't want to be prosecuted for crimes committed during his presidency.

lol.

as if it was funny right.
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Old 16th January 2020, 12:10 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I would welcome it if someone could explain to me what this means.
Putin is not eligable to run for president again in 2024 so he's stripping the office of power and giving it to the office of the Prime Minister instead.
There are no constitutional limits to the number of terms a Russian Prime Minister can have. Putin was already one for four years when he ran out of presidential terms the first time around.

A slightly less bad way to do the same would be to just remove the constitutional term limits altogether. He's doing basically the same thing but in the meantime he's setting an even worse precendens for the future of Russia. Plus the pretense serves no one.

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Old 16th January 2020, 12:40 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Putin is not eligable to run for president again in 2024 so he's stripping the office of power and giving it to the office of the Prime Minister instead.
There are no constitutional limits to the number of terms a Russian Prime Minister can have. Putin was already one for four years when he ran out of presidential terms the first time around.

A slightly less bad way to do the same would be to just remove the constitutional term limits altogether. He's doing basically the same thing but in the meantime he's setting an even worse precendens for the future of Russia. Plus the pretense serves no one.

McHrozni
Thanks.

This suggests that Putin's exit strategy is to not have an exit strategy, but to stay in power until he dies - peacefully or not.
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Old 16th January 2020, 12:56 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I would welcome it if someone could explain to me what this means.

Nothing good, even in their own words.


Quote:
Putin also proposed multiple amendments to Russia’s constitution. His proposals would entail “substantial changes” to the constitution as well as to the “entire balance of power, the power of the executive, the power of the legislature, the power of the judiciary,” Medvedev explained.

“In this context, it is obvious that, as the government, we must provide the president with a capability to make all decisions,” which are required to implement the proposed plan, Medvedev said announcing the en-masse resignation.

Democracies, and anything remotely like them, collapse to dictatorship when they foolishly grant an authoritarian "emergency powers", which are never given up.

Ancient Greece. Ancient Rome. 1930s Germany. Venezuela. Turkey.

The above is suspiciously close to the dictate part of dictator: the power to pass law by decree.
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The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

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Old 16th January 2020, 12:58 AM   #28
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The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?
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Old 16th January 2020, 01:05 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
Nothing good, even in their own words.





Democracies, and anything remotely like them, collapse to dictatorship when they foolishly grant an authoritarian "emergency powers", which are never given up.

Ancient Greece. Ancient Rome. 1930s Germany. Venezuela. Turkey.

The above is suspiciously close to the dictate part of dictator: the power to pass law by decree.

As all power-hungry despots, Putin will never groom someone to become his potential successor.
Which means that when Putin dies, Russia will sink into a political civil war.
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Old 16th January 2020, 01:20 AM   #30
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Putin will eventually pick a successor, but in order to keep himself and his allies free from prosecution and his legacy as clean as possible, it's likely going to be a security services guy. Doesn't have to be Medvedev and that just might look too transparent for some. He's got a nice pool to pick from. Nowhere near the predicament of Boris Yeltsin near the end of his term.
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Old 16th January 2020, 02:02 AM   #31
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As always you can get it from the horse's mouth: http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/62582
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Old 16th January 2020, 10:17 AM   #32
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Why is the entire Russian government cooperating with Putin's wishes?
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Old 16th January 2020, 10:25 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by ServiceSoon View Post
Why is the entire Russian government cooperating with Putin's wishes?
because those who don't tend to end up dead.
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Old 16th January 2020, 10:39 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by ServiceSoon View Post
Why is the entire Russian government cooperating with Putin's wishes?
After the fall of the Soviet Union, a kleptocratic oligarchy (oligarchic kleptocracy?) emerged from the ruins. Vladimir Putin is their Chief Executive Fixer. As long as he uses the power of the government to protect the interests of the oligarchs, they will see to it that the government protects the power of Vladimir Putin.

And, in addition to being popular with the oligarchs, Putin is also popular with a lot of Russians. Even elected officials who want to take a stand agains the oligarchs still have to face electoral reality as well as criminal reality.
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Old 16th January 2020, 10:49 AM   #35
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Will he ever actually adopt the title Tsar, or will he just do the job of one?
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Old 16th January 2020, 10:55 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Will he ever actually adopt the title Tsar, or will he just do the job of one?
It depends if having a Tsar serves the oligarchy better than just having a President/Prime Minister/President who does the job of one.
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Old 16th January 2020, 10:59 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Will he ever actually adopt the title Tsar, or will he just do the job of one?
Of course not!

He is still deciding between:
"Father of Nations", "Great Leader", "General Secretary", "Generalisimus", "The Man of Steel", "Brilliant Genius of Humanity", "Great Architect of Communism", "Gardener of Human Happiness", or "Dear Father".

which were some of Stalin's titles
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Old 16th January 2020, 11:09 AM   #38
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I think realistically, Putin is content with the titles he has.

Again, part of what keeps Putin in office is that he is in fact popular with a lot of Russian people. This is a very powerful advantage, because it means the oligarchy can afford to indulge in many of the trappings and functions of a democratically-elected government. I'm sure there are a number of Russians who would welcome a return to Tsardom. But it's bound to be a delicate subject. The last thing any of the power elites in Russia want to do right now is queer the play by reaching farther than they can grasp.

And Putin strikes me as being pragmatic enough to understand and appreciate that it's the power that matters, not the title that goes with it. Kind of like a Reverse Trump.
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Old 16th January 2020, 11:54 AM   #39
jimbob
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I would welcome it if someone could explain to me what this means.
Putin is going to step down from being President in 2024, but it won't matter because he'll have changed the constitution so that he's still in charge
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Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 16th January 2020, 11:59 AM   #40
dudalb
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Originally Posted by ServiceSoon View Post
Why is the entire Russian government cooperating with Putin's wishes?
Because they don't want a free trip to Siberia?
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