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Old 5th February 2020, 01:24 PM   #41
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
How did his phone wash up on a river bank? Was it a floating phone? Same question for the wallet.
Just a wild guess, it was in a waterproof stuff sack one uses when kayaking or canoeing.

Ninja'd.
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Old 5th February 2020, 01:31 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Outstanding and unique ecosystem for those who like nature.
It's incredible. While further north, there are canoe trails across the Okefenokee Swamp which are booked up years in advance. They only permit one group a day so that you never see the people behind or in front of you. There are platforms for camping you have to reach each day to stop.

https://www.fws.gov/uploadedFiles/OkeWildMapSide.pdf

https://www.fws.gov/refuge/okefenoke..._canoeing.html

Quote:
Overnight Wilderness Camping - Permit Required

A paddling trip through the Okefenokee is an experience that will be remembered for a lifetime. Alligators glide through tea-colored water. Herons and egrets wade through tall grasses and water lilies. Bears roam through hammocks and islands.

Okefenokee National Wildlife Refuge is a haven for these and other animals--over 400,000 acres of wet prairies, cypress forests, and pine uplands. Most of the refuge is designated a National Wilderness Area.

There are seven overnight shelters and two islands available in the swamp's interior (see map and trail descriptions). Remember: it is your responsibility to be prepared for a wilderness experience which includes knowing what to bring with you. Check out our brochure with map for a list of recommended items.
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Old 5th February 2020, 01:37 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It seems like he was in saltwater which is avoided by alligators. It might also explain his dehydration.
Are you sure? I thought the Everglades was a delta with a slow moving river running through it.
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Old 5th February 2020, 01:41 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
That'll teach me to post at 4AM. The article linked in my last post was supposed to have been linked in the OP, and the quotes in the OP come from it.



I would contend that's a particularly uncharitable reading if the CNN article is all that is known about the case; it is only in retrospect considering the new article's new information that it becomes more reasonable. The whole paragraph in the CNN article says,



The sequence of events implied by the way article is written is that the effects were found by "park rangers" after he didn't return home by the appointed time. This isn't a legal contract or a scientific paper where exacting verbiage is all-important, so I think it's reasonable to deduce from the way it is written that the park rangers who found his stuff were searching for him because his family hadn't heard from him.
Conceded, not meant that harshly. I meant that they may have been aware he was late, but not worried yet. Perhaps he vanishes for a few days from time to time and they are casual about it. Many of us never think the Reaper is close by.

Quote:
But you are right, if that is indeed not the case and he never told the family of his return date, he is just as irresponsible and foolish as the Alaska guy.
I dunno, I'm still sympathetic to free spirit types. When you get away with it a hundred times, hubris can get the better of you. There were a lot of times I had no business making it home, too, so I hesitate to be too harsh on such people.
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Old 5th February 2020, 01:41 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Are you sure? The Everglades is a delta with a slow moving river running through it.
I saw a news map of where he was found. He was in saltwater. That's probably why he was dehydrated. He couldn't drink it.
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Old 5th February 2020, 01:42 PM   #46
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Ginger: But that means large parts of it are brackish, fresh water mixing with salt water, and some parts at the edges are full saltwater. That's one of the reasons those ecosystems are so important.
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Old 5th February 2020, 02:03 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Conceded, not meant that harshly. I meant that they may have been aware he was late, but not worried yet. Perhaps he vanishes for a few days from time to time and they are casual about it. Many of us never think the Reaper is close by.



I dunno, I'm still sympathetic to free spirit types. When you get away with it a hundred times, hubris can get the better of you. There were a lot of times I had no business making it home, too, so I hesitate to be too harsh on such people.
Yeah, but to be fair, like the Alaska guy, youíre white.

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Old 5th February 2020, 02:07 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Yeah, but to be fair, like the Alaska guy, youíre white.

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Old 6th February 2020, 12:01 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
1. The Everglades is a beautiful place filled with very interesting animals and plants. Easy to see why someone would wish to explore it.

2. Guy runs into trouble. Reasons not yet clear. He may have made stupid mistakes or he may have done everything reasonable and overwhelmed by events out of his control. We don't know yet.

3. Fortunately he leaves instructions in case he does not return on time, a standard bit of wisdom for those entering the wildness. In fact something strongly recommended by most park rangers, etc. Obviously this safety fallback will use rescue resources if it comes to that. That is what they are there for.

Why the initial rush to mock him?
Because its the internet.

Internet trolls live in dark spaces like their parents' basement or back room. They are unable to even begin grasping the concept that not everyone lives like this, and that many people like to go outside, feel the warmth of the sun, and breathe fresh air. Some even like to "tramp" and walk great distances along natural trails for enjoyment and pleasure.

This is a concept that is entirely alien to the Internet Troll, whose only interaction with the outside world is when they go to the door to meet the pizza delivery boy.

Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I will express my wonderment that he was not consumed by an alligator. Perhaps they are not common in the particular part of the Everglades he was in.
Indeed, that was my first thought, how did he survive in the 'glades without becoming 'gator food?
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Old 6th February 2020, 12:21 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Because its the internet.

Internet trolls live in dark spaces like their parents' basement or back room. They are unable to even begin grasping the concept that not everyone lives like this, and that many people like to go outside, feel the warmth of the sun, and breathe fresh air. Some even like to "tramp" and walk great distances along natural trials for enjoyment and pleasure.

This is a concept that is entirely alien to the Internet Troll, whose only interaction with the outside world is when they go to the door to meet the pizza delivery boy.



Indeed, that was my first thought, how did he survive in the 'glades without becoming 'gator food?
Oh, I think there will be trials, alright. And tribulations! Go outside at your puerile!
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Old 6th February 2020, 12:25 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Indeed, that was my first thought, how did he survive in the 'glades without becoming 'gator food?
He was in the saltwater part of the Everglades where the alligators don't live.
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Old 6th February 2020, 12:26 PM   #52
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He was lucky he did not run into Dr Connor's lab and ecounter this:





Still angry "The Amazing Spiderman " messed up one of favorite Spidey villians so bad....
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Old 6th February 2020, 12:37 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
He was in the saltwater part of the Everglades where the alligators don't live.
You don't have salties in the Everglades? I did not know that!
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Old 6th February 2020, 01:17 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It's incredible. While further north, there are canoe trails across the Okefenokee Swamp which are booked up years in advance. They only permit one group a day so that you never see the people behind or in front of you. There are platforms for camping you have to reach each day to stop.

https://www.fws.gov/uploadedFiles/OkeWildMapSide.pdf

https://www.fws.gov/refuge/okefenoke..._canoeing.html
The point maybe being that it's not this insane thing the guy did. It's on the recreational level. They have tour groups for kayaks as well as swamp boat tours as well.
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Old 6th February 2020, 01:18 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You don't have salties in the Everglades? I did not know that!
Gators for the most part. there is some species of croc there but hardly salty sized.
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Old 6th February 2020, 01:21 PM   #56
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Just to be clear, is it me you are refering to as a troll? While I don't understand why someone would spend a week in the Glades I don't recall mocking the poor guy.
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Old 6th February 2020, 01:27 PM   #57
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Any time a person steps foot off a paved surface, they're just asking to become gator/grizzly/coyote (with wolf DNA) food.
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Old 6th February 2020, 02:26 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Yeah, but to be fair, like the Alaska guy, youíre white.
Indeed, he qualifies for the kinds of welfare checks where the police don't kill you while checking on you.
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Old 6th February 2020, 02:31 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Pterodactyl View Post
Any time a person steps foot off a paved surface, they're just asking to become gator/grizzly/coyote (with wolf DNA) food.
At some times of the year, though, rattlesnakes love pavement, especially at night. It's a well-known snake-hunting technique.
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Old 6th February 2020, 02:39 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
He was in the saltwater part of the Everglades where the alligators don't live.
The American crocodile, on the other hand, does prefer saltwater. However it is rare and reclusive.
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Old 6th February 2020, 05:23 PM   #61
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It's still a strange story, though, because getting separated from your boat (and gear) is pretty unusual in inland flat water. I mentioned an acute medical problem as one possible explanation. After that, the next most likely is probably foul play. But I haven't seen any such thing mentioned in any news article.
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Old 6th February 2020, 05:47 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
It's still a strange story, though, because getting separated from your boat (and gear) is pretty unusual in inland flat water. I mentioned an acute medical problem as one possible explanation. After that, the next most likely is probably foul play. But I haven't seen any such thing mentioned in any news article.
It is quite unusual for sure; not only did this mishap occur in flat and slow inland water, but quite shallow water at that. His canoe was found swamped, and the Miami Herald article described him as not only hypothermic but in "great pain" when he was found.

I hope he chooses to give a statement once he is recovered, as I'm keenly interested.
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Old 6th February 2020, 08:54 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
It's still a strange story, though, because getting separated from your boat (and gear) is pretty unusual in inland flat water. I mentioned an acute medical problem as one possible explanation. After that, the next most likely is probably foul play. But I haven't seen any such thing mentioned in any news article.
Maybe he lost consciousness and tipped over.
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Old 13th February 2020, 02:56 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
1. The Everglades is a beautiful place filled with very interesting animals and plants. Easy to see why someone would wish to explore it.

2. Guy runs into trouble. Reasons not yet clear. He may have made stupid mistakes or he may have done everything reasonable and overwhelmed by events out of his control. We don't know yet.

3. Fortunately he leaves instructions in case he does not return on time, a standard bit of wisdom for those entering the wildness. In fact something strongly recommended by most park rangers, etc. Obviously this safety fallback will use rescue resources if it comes to that. That is what they are there for.

Why the initial rush to mock him?

I will express my wonderment that he was not consumed by an alligator. Perhaps they are not common in the particular part of the Everglades he was in. Or maybe they always received a voicemail prompt when they called his cell phone and assumed he was unavailable.
This. We know nothing about what happened to him. Why are people so sure he acted irresponsibly?
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Old 13th February 2020, 07:16 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
Just to be clear, is it me you are refering to as a troll? While I don't understand why someone would spend a week in the Glades I don't recall mocking the poor guy.
Some people like the outdoors, this is backpacking trips in the mountains, white water rafting through Canyons, or kayaking through the everglades, so some may just more "sheltered" than others. There's nothing odd about what the guy did.
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Old 13th February 2020, 07:29 AM   #66
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My guess would be that he was inexperienced with the vicious tides of Florida Bay. I have been there numerous times and can tell you that you don't want to mess with this in a canoe. This is generally not a problem when far inland on freshwater. He was found among the coastal mangrove islands in saltwater which is an area where the tides would present the greatest dangers.

Everything is fine until a tide happens. Then the calm shallow water becomes a rippled river that you cannot swim against and will have difficulties with a paddle craft. There are countless channels where the water will move especially fast. Mangrove islands are everywhere but they don't offer good refuge as the water flows right over them and through the exposed mangrove root systems. A canoe could be easily overturned if a person sought refuge within these mangroves.

If he capsized during a tide he could easily lose everything because of the rushing water and inability to swim productively. Yeah, you can see your floating dry bag but you can't get to it before it's gone.

This would be a huge bummer if you have nothing but a flotation vest. During rising tide the islands are nothing but a tangle of mangrove roots which might be covered with sharp barnacles and oysters. During falling tide some land will become exposed but it's likely to be nothing but deep mud. It is hard to walk or even crawl across that - but still where are you going to go anyway? Rescue is pretty much your only hope. Food and drinkable water? Forget it.
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Old 14th February 2020, 05:54 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
My guess would be that he was inexperienced with the vicious tides of Florida Bay. I have been there numerous times and can tell you that you don't want to mess with this in a canoe. This is generally not a problem when far inland on freshwater. He was found among the coastal mangrove islands in saltwater which is an area where the tides would present the greatest dangers.

Thanks for this. I didn't know (and I don't think the news articles mentioned) that the route the paddler was on had strong tidal currents. That could indeed explain a lot.
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Old 14th February 2020, 10:17 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Just a wild guess, it was in a waterproof stuff sack one uses when kayaking or canoeing.

Ninja'd.
Also known as a "dry bag", commonly used in kayaking
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Old 15th February 2020, 08:58 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
Also known as a "dry bag", commonly used in kayaking

But as the present case might demonstrate, it's no consolation that your gear didn't sink, if it floats away beyond reach in a current instead. That's what tethers are for.

Paddle tethers in particular are essential in wilderness. It's possible the whole emergency in this case began with the loss of a paddle.
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