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Old 9th February 2020, 07:15 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by Architect View Post
Both the Scottish and UK press, nationalist and unionist, seem to take a hard line on Mr. MacKay today - a rare show of consistency of opinion.
Banging on about homo perversion is still good form in Scotland apparently. I mean Labour is really working hard to paint his actions as being criminal, calling for investigations and what not.

Earlier someone asked how this would look in Sweden and I can tell you that stuff like this does not happen here. I'm not talking about top level politicians hitting on 16 year olds, I'm talking about it becoming a political scandal. Unless it would constitute sexual harassment it would not be reported in the media. It would be considered a invasion of private life.

I even looked up at the biggest newspapers here and I couldn't find any mention of this.
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Old 9th February 2020, 07:26 AM   #162
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Labour will bang on about anything they think will damage the SNP, anything at all. But I don't think the homosexual element is the issue at all. If a straight male politician had done the exact same thing to a 16 year old girl, I think the reaction would have been essentially the same.
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Old 9th February 2020, 07:51 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Labour will bang on about anything they think will damage the SNP, anything at all. But I don't think the homosexual element is the issue at all. If a straight male politician had done the exact same thing to a 16 year old girl, I think the reaction would have been essentially the same.
The problem is that it was only relatively recently that the laws were amended to legalise same-sex sexual relationships with those aged 16 and above. That was a very progressive and permissive move done against strong residual homophobic attitudes.

Labour might not be aware, let alone care, that by inflating the perceived seriousness of his conduct they playing into the same narratives of perverted homos preying on innocent youths that were used as an argument for why the age of consent should not have been lowered.

Newspapers and politicians shape public opinions by how they chose to frame and report on events. By insinuating that his conduct was illegal, such as by describing his conduct as constituting "grooming", they tend to perpetuate the homophobic or otherwise bigoted attitude that someone hitting on a 16 year old boy is doing something that is bad enough to be illegal.

I mean that is how they have been reporting it: man messaged a 16 year old boy and called him cute. A very bad man indeed. He must be investigated!
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Old 9th February 2020, 08:22 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
The problem is that it was only relatively recently that the laws were amended to legalise same-sex sexual relationships with those aged 16 and above. That was a very progressive and permissive move done against strong residual homophobic attitudes.

Labour might not be aware, let alone care, that by inflating the perceived seriousness of his conduct they playing into the same narratives of perverted homos preying on innocent youths that were used as an argument for why the age of consent should not have been lowered.

Newspapers and politicians shape public opinions by how they chose to frame and report on events. By insinuating that his conduct was illegal, such as by describing his conduct as constituting "grooming", they tend to perpetuate the homophobic or otherwise bigoted attitude that someone hitting on a 16 year old boy is doing something that is bad enough to be illegal.

I mean that is how they have been reporting it: man messaged a 16 year old boy and called him cute. A very bad man indeed. He must be investigated!
Dude, this whole homophope thing you're on about is a strawman.

Middle aged gay politician dropping 200 unwanted texts (with invites to travel together and 'you're cute') to a straight boy just past AoC is a creepshow on a couple levels. The only reason orientation comes into it is that the boy does not share that orientation, which makes it extra weird.

The whole thing about a full blown adult making the moves on a kid that just a few weeks earlier would have been literally criminal is what makes most people's skin crawl. One gets the feeling that if the AoC was 14, such a guy would suddenly find kids 14 yrs and one day irresistible. Such people remind me of that idea of heaven is having your own 72 virgins.
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Old 9th February 2020, 08:24 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Banging on about homo perversion is still good form in Scotland apparently. I mean Labour is really working hard to paint his actions as being criminal, calling for investigations and what not.

Could you please provide me with a link to the press articles you feel evidence this homophobia and which you read in coming to that informed view?
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Old 9th February 2020, 08:25 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Dude, this whole homophope thing you're on about is a strawman.

One only has to look at several of our previous party leaders in Scotland coming out or being openly gay prior to election to be aware of that.
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Old 9th February 2020, 08:36 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Dude, this whole homophope thing you're on about is a strawman.
Then why the focus on the sex of the individuals if it's completely irrelevant? They don't have to mention that it was a boy nor do they have to even mention his age if his conduct was bad irrespective of those things.

And yet they chose to do so. Every headline and almost every news article focused on those things.

Quote:
Middle aged gay politician dropping 200 unwanted texts (with invites to travel together and 'you're cute') to a straight boy just past AoC is a creepshow on a couple levels. The only reason orientation comes into it is that the boy does not share that orientation, which makes it extra weird.
Your bigotry is noted. I should also note here that people do not always advertise that they are gay or bisexual.

Quote:
The whole thing about a full blown adult making the moves on a kid that just a few weeks earlier would have been literally criminal is what makes most people's skin crawl. One gets the feeling that if the AoC was 14, such a guy would suddenly find kids 14 yrs and one day irresistible. Such people remind me of that idea of heaven is having your own 72 virgins.
Yes a very horrible thought. Adult men having legal consensual sex with willing teenage boy. Sickening.

To think that the sick bastards in Scotland chose to allow their children to be violated, defiled really, completely legally.
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Old 9th February 2020, 08:50 AM   #168
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Then why the focus on the sex of the individuals if it's completely irrelevant? They don't have to mention that it was a boy nor do they have to even mention his age if his conduct was bad irrespective of those things.

And yet they chose to do so. Every headline and almost every news article focused on those things.



Your bigotry is noted. I should also note here that people do not always advertise that they are gay or bisexual.
Come off it. You know the logic of AoC, that kids are old enough to engage in sex, normally with peers. Most of us did. Most of us, around age 19 or so, wouldn't be caught dead banging a kid after that.

Quote:
Yes a very horrible thought. Adult men having legal consensual sex with willing teenage boy. Sickening.

To think that the sick bastards in Scotland chose to allow their children to be violated, defiled really, completely legally.
There it is. 'Hey, i've been watching that calendar, and I'm on the legal side of the line this week! Whoo hoo!

This thread is making my skin crawl. Thermal out.
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Old 9th February 2020, 08:52 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by Architect View Post
Could you please provide me with a link to the press articles you feel evidence this homophobia and which you read in coming to that informed view?
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...-talk-21459429

If he'd go so far as to call a 16 year old BOY cute and pester him with messages one wonders how far this sick **** would go. Did he drag a kid into a restroom and rape him? We might never find out the true extent of this vile fiends crimes.
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Old 9th February 2020, 08:57 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Come off it. You know the logic of AoC, that kids are old enough to engage in sex, normally with peers. Most of us did. Most of us, around age 19 or so, wouldn't be caught dead banging a kid after that.
You know that they are not mentally retarded in Scotland, right? They are more than aware of the fact that they are able to enact laws that would allow youths to have sex with youths their own age, and yet they chose to allow them to have sex with (almost) everyone.

What bunch of sick bastards indeed. I feel like throwing up just thinking about it.

Quote:
There it is. 'Hey, i've been watching that calendar, and I'm on the legal side of the line this week! Whoo hoo!

This thread is making my skin crawl. Thermal out.
Bigot.
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Old 9th February 2020, 09:08 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
You know that they are not mentally retarded in Scotland, right? They are more than aware of the fact that they are able to enact laws that would allow youths to have sex with youths their own age, and yet they chose to allow them to have sex with (almost) everyone.

What bunch of sick bastards indeed. I feel like throwing up just thinking about it.
You know the catch-22 with AoC. If you say a kid can consent to sex, you can't logically restrict the upper age limit.

Although you rely entirely on it being 'legal', that doesn't make it clean. A lot of things are technically legal yet quite depraved, and you are acting like a spoiled child by pretending you don't.

Quote:
Bigot.
Can you not even get insults straight? 'Prude' would be the correct empty insult. Because I think adults should stay out of the pants of kids. Out in left field, that.
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Old 9th February 2020, 09:37 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/s...-talk-21459429

If he'd go so far as to call a 16 year old BOY cute and pester him with messages one wonders how far this sick **** would go. Did he drag a kid into a restroom and rape him? We might never find out the true extent of this vile fiends crimes.

So your source was the Daily Record?
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Old 9th February 2020, 09:40 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You know the catch-22 with AoC. If you say a kid can consent to sex, you can't logically restrict the upper age limit.
You seriously have no clue what you are talking about, don't you? They do that all the time.

Quote:
Although you rely entirely on it being 'legal', that doesn't make it clean. A lot of things are technically legal yet quite depraved, and you are acting like a spoiled child by pretending you don't.
Yes having consensual sex with a willing 16 year old is the height of depravity. So depraved that it creeps you out so much that you apparently wanted to stop posting in this thread or something. The subject is that unsettling.

Quote:
Can you not even get insults straight? 'Prude' would be the correct empty insult. Because I think adults should stay out of the pants of kids. Out in left field, that.
Prude would not be a fitting term for someone who's obviously so prejudiced that they would describe it as "making their skin crawl". That prejudice your are demonstrating is the hallmark of bigotry.
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Old 9th February 2020, 09:59 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by Architect View Post
So your source was the Daily Record?
No originally it was on the BBC news website where i saw the front-page of "The Sunday Mail". The text under the image stated that:

Quote:
The Sunday Mail leads with a story about ex-finance secretary Derek Mackay attending an event for schoolchildren the same month he is alleged to have sent social media messages to a 16-year-old boy. The paper reports that Labour's Neil Bibby has now demanded a full investigation into the school event by child protection body Disclosure Scotland.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-51433088

Lets face the truth: hitting on a 16 year old boy is creepy because if you are sick and disgusting enough to do that then there's no limits to your depravity. Or so the logic goes, apparently. Maybe he's another John Wayn Gacy...
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Old 9th February 2020, 10:15 AM   #175
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The Sunday Mail and Daily Record are the same paper.


So, based on this one source, you conclude Scottish media is homophobic?



Which section of the article do you feel supports that proposition?
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Old 9th February 2020, 10:18 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
You seriously have no clue what you are talking about, don't you? They do that all the time.
In the cultures being discussed? Calling BS on that one.

Quote:
Yes having consensual sex with a willing 16 year old is the height of depravity.
More straw. Consensual sex with a 16 yr old is fun. Had quite a bit myself, and prepared my teen daughters to do so safely, too. Middle aged guys trying to do so? Sad comment on them.

Quote:
So depraved that it creeps you out so much that you apparently wanted to stop posting in this thread or something. The subject is that unsettling.
The mindset of those tying to justify how it is fine just because it is legal is unsettling, yes. No one is arguing that it is illegal. It is being argued that it is completely inappropriate. The attempted misdirection is noted.

Quote:
Prude would not be a fitting term for someone who's obviously so prejudiced that they would describe it as "making their skin crawl". That prejudice your are demonstrating is the hallmark of bigotry.
Just determined to keep dragging this down from a civil disagreement to insults, aren't you?

The only thing I am 'prejudiced' about in this discussion is oldsters trying to get down the pants of children. Yeah, I have a problem with that. The subject itself doesn't make my skin crawl; like anything else it can be discussed civilly. The way it is being discussed by its champions alludes to an agenda that is unsettling to more than just my take on it. You'll note it's champions have nothing to say about peer relationships, but a lot of thoughts on where that line is for being legal with a kid.

Yes, that is unsettling.
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Old 9th February 2020, 10:34 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
In the cultures being discussed? Calling BS on that one.
It's illegal for anyone to have sex with someone aged less than 16 years old in England and Wales. Technically speaking a couple that has sex while being underage is committing a crime, but the law is not enforced unless for example the age difference is too big.

The same legal situation exists in Sweden. It's a crime to have sex with those under the age of 15 but there is an exception if the difference in age and development is non-significant.

Seriously, you know next to nothing about what you are talking about.

Quote:
More straw. Consensual sex with a 16 yr old is fun. Had quite a bit myself, and prepared my teen daughters to do so safely, too. Middle aged guys trying to do so? Sad comment on them.
Yes how "sad" it is for people to enjoy having fun. Disgusting and depraved more like it.

Quote:
The mindset of those tying to justify how it is fine just because it is legal is unsettling, yes. No one is arguing that it is illegal. It is being argued that it is completely inappropriate. The attempted misdirection is noted.
You do realize that it's legal because the legislators find it perfectly fine, right? They allow those "sad" people to engage in all kinds of debauched and depraved sexual acts with them, not because they have to, but because they chose to.

Quote:
Just determined to keep dragging this down from a civil disagreement to insults, aren't you?
I'm stating facts here. It's a fact that you are a bigot because your inherit dislike of people having sex with teenagers are based on prejudice. Your reliance on emotional terms and physical responses like "creepy" and "skin crawl" is a very good example of that.

Quote:
The only thing I am 'prejudiced' about in this discussion is oldsters trying to get down the pants of children. Yeah, I have a problem with that. The subject itself doesn't make my skin crawl; like anything else it can be discussed civilly. The way it is being discussed by its champions alludes to an agenda that is unsettling to more than just my take on it. You'll note it's champions have nothing to say about peer relationships, but a lot of thoughts on where that line is for being legal with a kid.

Yes, that is unsettling.
Yes it's unsettling. It's something you have been conditioned to feel, a physical and emotional response that is not based on reason.
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Old 9th February 2020, 10:40 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by Architect View Post
The Sunday Mail and Daily Record are the same paper.


So, based on this one source, you conclude Scottish media is homophobic?
I never said they were homophobic. I said that they were liable to perpetuate homophobic narratives.

Do you think it's appropriate for the Labour MSP to call for an investigation, as if there's reasonable grounds to suspect he did anything illegal or unseemly? When a pedophile is known to have molested kids at a daycare center they might investigate the time they were employed elsewhere for evidence of other victims. That's basically how they are saying it should be treated.
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Old 9th February 2020, 10:52 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
You know that they are not mentally retarded in Scotland, right? They are more than aware of the fact that they are able to enact laws that would allow youths to have sex with youths their own age, and yet they chose to allow them to have sex with (almost) everyone.

What bunch of sick bastards indeed. I feel like throwing up just thinking about it.



Bigot.
It may be legal, but it is not normal. This is nothing to do with gender or sexuality, if it had been our Ruthy I would have been just as disapproving (and disappointed). Sending many messages to some one who is not showing any signs of wanting to be 'friends' is cyber stalking. This shows bad judgement in a senior politician, it certainly made him potentially vulnerable to blackmail.
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Old 9th February 2020, 11:01 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
It's illegal for anyone to have sex with someone aged less than 16 years old in England and Wales. Technically speaking a couple that has sex while being underage is committing a crime, but the law is not enforced unless for example the age difference is too big.

The same legal situation exists in Sweden. It's a crime to have sex with those under the age of 15 but there is an exception if the difference in age and development is non-significant.

Seriously, you know next to nothing about what you are talking about.
Oh, I see the problem. Your head is up your ass. I said there was no upper age limit after AoC. Here, I'll quote it for you to help you dislodge:

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You know the catch-22 with AoC. If you say a kid can consent to sex, you can't logically restrict the upper age limit.
I'll give you some dictionary time with 'upper' if needed.

Originally Posted by Arcade22
Yes how "sad" it is for people to enjoy having fun. Disgusting and depraved more like it.
And back to straw rather than argue like an adult. Getting dull.

Originally Posted by Arcade22
You do realize that it's legal because the legislators find it perfectly fine, right? They allow those "sad" people to engage in all kinds of debauched and depraved sexual acts with them, not because they have to, but because they chose to.
Again with 'but but but it's legal!'. Morality/appropriateness is not always legislated. And no one is claiming it is, or should be. Yet more straw.

Originally Posted by Arcade22
I'm stating facts here. It's a fact that you are a bigot because your inherit dislike of people having sex with teenagers are based on prejudice. Your reliance on emotional terms and physical responses like "creepy" and "skin crawl" is a very good example of that.



Yes it's unsettling. It's something you have been conditioned to feel, a physical and emotional response that is not based on reason.
Guess we can add 'bigotry' to your list of terms you don't get. My position is reasoned, and I fully accept there are exceptions. My dislike is not 'inherent' or prejudiced. It is a common, normal cultural value. If it were not, this discussion would not even be happening.

Tell you what: you already have some dictionary work to do. Shall we drop this, at least till you catch up? Perhaps returning to discuss like a grown-up?

eta: re the hilited: you are lying again. I say close in age is fine for teens. Encouraged, even. We are not at all talking about just 'people' having sex with teens. An outright lie, and you know it. Or...wait...are you saying that only older folks are 'people' and the teens aren't? That's telling, no?
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Old 9th February 2020, 11:23 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Oh, I see the problem. Your head is up your ass. I said there was no upper age limit after AoC. Here, I'll quote it for you to help you dislodge:
I have absolutely no idea what kind of point you are trying to make then. The whole point is to not penalize sexual relations between people that are technically underage if the age difference is not big enough.

I hope i don't have to point out that the age-difference can widen if one of the individuals involved are older. In that regards there is obviously an upper age limit for sex with those under the age of consent.

There is absolutely nothing preventing the Scottish people from raising the age of consent to 21 years old, or whatever arbitrary age at which people having sex ceases to cause you negative emotional responses. Edit: That would keep those "creepy" middle age men from perving up on 16 years old while allowing them to legally have sex with their peers.

Quote:
Again with 'but but but it's legal!'. Morality/appropriateness is not always legislated. And no one is claiming it is, or should be. Yet more straw.
Or maybe the Scottish legislators views are not as bigoted as yours. Have you considered that possibility?

Quote:
Guess we can add 'bigotry' to your list of terms you don't get. My position is reasoned, and I fully accept there are exceptions. My dislike is not 'inherent' or prejudiced. It is a common, normal cultural value. If it were not, this discussion would not even be happening.
The fact that you pepper your writing with terms like "creepy" and "skin crawling" is proof that your opinions are based on physical emotional responses and not reason. Otherwise you would not have brought them up now would you?

Quote:
eta: re the hilited: you are lying again. I say close in age is fine for teens. Encouraged, even. We are not at all talking about just 'people' having sex with teens. An outright lie, and you know it.
Why should the age of the older person matter? They are old enough to be able to have sex with (almost) whomever they choose.

The fact that you somehow justify your condemnation of people for engaging in perfectly legal, consensual and voluntary sex by bringing up your emotional reactions is pretty ******* petty and bigoted.
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Old 9th February 2020, 11:26 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
It may be legal, but it is not normal. This is nothing to do with gender or sexuality, if it had been our Ruthy I would have been just as disapproving (and disappointed). Sending many messages to some one who is not showing any signs of wanting to be 'friends' is cyber stalking. This shows bad judgement in a senior politician, it certainly made him potentially vulnerable to blackmail.
I fully agree with that. As i mentioned before, if he absolutely wanted to have sex with a boy aged 16, there would be far better options for that than starting up a random conversation.

That he persisted for as long as he did seems to suggest that he was either oblivious to the impression he was giving and the response he was getting, or otherwise indifferent to it. Which makes you wonder just what motivated him.
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Old 9th February 2020, 11:49 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Labour might not be aware, let alone care, that by inflating the perceived seriousness of his conduct they playing into the same narratives of perverted homos preying on innocent youths that were used as an argument for why the age of consent should not have been lowered.

Labour in Scotland do not care about anything other than embarrassing the SNP. Consistency, credibility, public interest, truth, anything like that, forget it. Whatever happens, bash the SNP. That is the one policy strategy they have.
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Old 9th February 2020, 11:49 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I have absolutely no idea what kind of point you are trying to make then.
Just try reading it. It's not that complicated.

Quote:
The whole point is to not penalize sexual relations between people that are technically underage if the age difference is not big enough.

I hope i don't have to point out that the age-difference can widen if one of the individuals involved are older. In that regards there is obviously an upper age limit for sex with those under the age of consent.
Christ, man, I specified above AoC. We all know about Romeo and Juliet exceptions. That is not what is being discussed.

Quote:
There is absolutely nothing preventing the Scottish people from raising the age of consent to 21 years old, or whatever arbitrary age at which people having sex ceases to cause you negative emotional responses. Edit: That would keep those "creepy" middle age men from perving up on 16 years old while allowing them to legally have sex with their peers.



Or maybe the Scottish legislators views are not as bigoted as yours. Have you considered that possibility?
And you still keep harping on the legality, that no one at all is questioning. Jesus, dude, this is really not that complicated.

Quote:
The fact that you pepper your writing with terms like "creepy" and "skin crawling" is proof that your opinions are based on physical emotional responses and not reason. Otherwise you would not have brought them up now would you?
Sure I would. They are common figures of speech to an English speaking ear. You see, people can employ graphic descriptors to express intellectual conclusions...

Never mind. Toss that in with your other comprehension homework.

Quote:
Why should the age of the older person matter? They are old enough to be able to have sex with (almost) whomever they choose.
You simply do not understand pages of arguments in clear language, then.

Quote:
The fact that you somehow justify your condemnation of people for engaging in perfectly legal, consensual and voluntary sex by bringing up your emotional reactions is pretty ******* petty and bigoted.
I give up. I'll keep reading your musings on how there are 'people', and then there are 'teenagers' though.
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Old 9th February 2020, 12:00 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I give up.
You refuse to answer any of my questions and then act as if it's my fault that you can't be comprehended. Why?
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Old 9th February 2020, 12:07 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
You refuse to answer any of my questions and then act as if it's my fault that you can't be comprehended. Why?
Liar. I've answered every question, AFAIK. The problem is that you interpret every answer as 'this behavior is illegal'.

Which. No. One. Is. Saying.
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Old 9th February 2020, 12:16 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Liar. I've answered every question, AFAIK.
No you did not answer my questions. You give non-answers that explain absolutely nothing and then try to put the burden on me for not understanding what you were arguing.

Quote:
The problem is that you interpret every answer as 'this behavior is illegal'.

Which. No. One. Is. Saying.
Seriously, are you high or drunk? Or both?
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Old 9th February 2020, 12:37 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I never said they were homophobic. I said that they were liable to perpetuate homophobic narratives.

Well, what you actually said was:


Quote:
Banging on about homo perversion is still good form in Scotland apparently

I'm not really getting that in the Daily Record piece you've linked to. Can you tell me what bit of the article you're particularly thinking of, please?
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Old 9th February 2020, 12:50 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by Architect View Post
Well, what you actually said was:
Yeah, but I explained my concerns in another post.

Quote:
I'm not really getting that in the Daily Record piece you've linked to. Can you tell me what bit of the article you're particularly thinking of, please?
The part where his actions are apparently worryingly enough to warrant an investigation into him giving a speech to a bunch children and young people.

Quote:
Derek Mackay hosted schoolboys at a night-time “meet and greet” within the same month he sent 31 inappropriate texts to a 16-year old.

Teachers received an email encouraging pupils to attend the “life story” event after the*former finance secretary*put himself forward as the guest of honour, the*Sunday Mail*can reveal.

An opposition MSP has called for an urgent investigation into the reception, which was aimed at children and held in a Glasgow office block in November.

Event organiser Kieran Aitken said: “A shiver goes through me when I think about it now.”

...

Parents will rightly be asking why Derek Mackay was allowed to attend this event instead of the First Minister.

Parents have the right to know there are proper safeguards in place whenever their children are being invited to an event outside the school.”
This perverted pederast was hitting on a 16 year old boy at around the same time as he has in proximity to more potential victims.

Something must be done!
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Old 9th February 2020, 02:13 PM   #190
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It really looks like someone's spoiling for a huge internet fight with homophobes. Unfortunately for them that's just not the audience here. Might I suggest Reddit?
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Old 9th February 2020, 02:34 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
...pederast was hitting on a 16 year old boy at around the same time as he has in proximity to more potential victims....

I'm not quite getting that from the article, I'm afraid. In fact, it seems more upset about the fact he was 16 than anything else.
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Old 9th February 2020, 03:50 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by Architect View Post
I'm not quite getting that from the article, I'm afraid. In fact, it seems more upset about the fact he was 16 than anything else.
You know what? You are perfectly right in that. The article, taken by itself, does not focus on the sex of the individuals. In retrospect, I'm perfectly willing to admit that i have wrongly inferred homophobic insinuations from the news coverage.

With that said, I find the insinuations from the Sunday Mail and other newspapers (and at least one Labour MSP) that try paint his conduct as outright criminal pretty terrible, simply because it comes so close to the same kind of homophobic rhetoric that was earlier used to argue against gay rights. I mean the police apparently decided to speak to the supposed "victim" only after it had been reported in the media, even-though they had been informed by the "victims" mother before that.
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Old 9th February 2020, 03:53 PM   #193
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Here's the issue I have with AoC at 16. It's easier at this age for a young person to think, "Oh, he really loves me!" when some prestigious older person reaches out. Or "I must be really special" to attract such a person. When really the most special thing about them may be their age - not even their youth in general, but their actual age.

Would 17 be quite as titillating to Mackay, or is it the "barely legal" status that excited him? And if so, would setting the AoC at 15 cause him to recalibrate to find 15-year-olds irresistable? And if an adult knows themself to be strongly attracted to the "barely legal," is it fair for them to aggressively pursue someone who's going to be too old for them in a few months?

Raising the AoC to 18 doesn't really solve this problem but it might level the playing field a bit. And obviously this dynamic does not apply when two 16-year-olds are getting it on. Or 18 and 16 or similar gaps.
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Old 9th February 2020, 04:14 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Here's the issue I have with AoC at 16. It's easier at this age for a young person to think, "Oh, he really loves me!" when some prestigious older person reaches out. Or "I must be really special" to attract such a person. When really the most special thing about them may be their age - not even their youth in general, but their actual age.



Would 17 be quite as titillating to Mackay, or is it the "barely legal" status that excited him? And if so, would setting the AoC at 15 cause him to recalibrate to find 15-year-olds irresistable? And if an adult knows themself to be strongly attracted to the "barely legal," is it fair for them to aggressively pursue someone who's going to be too old for them in a few months?



Raising the AoC to 18 doesn't really solve this problem but it might level the playing field a bit. And obviously this dynamic does not apply when two 16-year-olds are getting it on. Or 18 and 16 or similar gaps.
The other story we've had details of was someone in their mid 20s.
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Old 9th February 2020, 04:18 PM   #195
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In my scenario above, the potential for emotional harm doesn't apply since the lad did not fancy Mackay. Alternatively, if all parties agree that a hookup is just a hookup, it's OK for a 40-year-old to seduce a 16-year-old (in Scotland). But that's a hard boundary for even 2 adults to totally get right if there's any emotional involvement at all.

And then you also have these Emmanuel Macron situations that seem definitely not OK at first blush, then turn out to be OK. But I suspect that's unusual, even in France. To make things even more complicated, it's also possible for a 16-year-old to manipulate a 40-year-old.

I think you have to look at everything in context.

It almost seems to me that if Mackay had simply acknowledged he used poor judgment he could be forgiven and redeemed, but I don't know much about politics in Scotland. And I kind of have to wonder if this wasn't a semi-deliberate act of self-sabotage from someone having a a midlife crisis.

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Old 9th February 2020, 04:28 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
The other story we've had details of was someone in their mid 20s.
I don't blame people for being attracted to youth. Most of us are kind of cute at that age.

I just don't really get the spirited pursuit of people who are obviously not interested. Or, you know what? I do kind of get it. It's possible Mackay didn't want a relationship or even a liaison. Just wanted to live a little bit dangerously.
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Old 9th February 2020, 04:28 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
.... I find the insinuations from the Sunday Mail and other newspapers (and at least one Labour MSP) that try paint his conduct as outright criminal pretty terrible....

Get this. The Labour party and its tame newspapers (and the Daily Record and the Sunday Mail are practically in-house Labour fanzines) will use anything, anything at all, to have a go at the hated SNP. No other consideration matters. Public interest doesn't matter. Effect on other affected groups doesn't matter. Truth doesn't matter. The anti-SNP headline is the only thing that matters.

We're used to it. Get over it.

(For comparison, see the foaming-at-the-mouth headlines damning the SNP's incompetence for bringing in an award-winning new bridge on time and under budget. You couldn't make it up. But they do.)
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Old 9th February 2020, 04:46 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Rolfe View Post
Get this. The Labour party and its tame newspapers (and the Daily Record and the Sunday Mail are practically in-house Labour fanzines) will use anything, anything at all, to have a go at the hated SNP. No other consideration matters. Public interest doesn't matter. Effect on other affected groups doesn't matter. Truth doesn't matter. The anti-SNP headline is the only thing that matters.

We're used to it. Get over it.

(For comparison, see the foaming-at-the-mouth headlines damning the SNP's incompetence for bringing in an award-winning new bridge on time and under budget. You couldn't make it up. But they do.)
You are sounding a little Trumpian. The press should hold the party in power / government to account. I think the SNP have been in power for too long for their own and the country's good. This is a general comment not specific to SNP; any party in power for more than three elections is a bad thing. I already get a feeling that unless you are a party member that progression in public service is difficult. A friend joined the SNP because they thought that they would be more likely to be appointed to a Quango if they were seen as commited to an independant Scotland. The mere perception that party membership is important is corrupting whether true or not. But with a single party in power over a prolonged period the tendency to appoint people 'like me' has a consequence. This is equally true were the party to be Tory Labour or Nationalist.
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Old 9th February 2020, 05:30 PM   #199
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This is dumb. Nobody had sex with anyone in this case, so "age of consent" doesn't matter.

This guy repeatedly tried to press for a "relationship" with someone who clearly wasn't interested, even after the fact was made explicit. That's creeper territory. The End.
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Old 9th February 2020, 05:34 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
You are sounding a little Trumpian. The press should hold the party in power / government to account. I think the SNP have been in power for too long for their own and the country's good. This is a general comment not specific to SNP; any party in power for more than three elections is a bad thing. I already get a feeling that unless you are a party member that progression in public service is difficult. A friend joined the SNP because they thought that they would be more likely to be appointed to a Quango if they were seen as commited to an independant Scotland. The mere perception that party membership is important is corrupting whether true or not. But with a single party in power over a prolonged period the tendency to appoint people 'like me' has a consequence. This is equally true were the party to be Tory Labour or Nationalist.

I don't disagree with a word of that. The party is riddled with entryists and woke Stasi and there is real trouble coming fast down the track. That doesn't change the fact that if the SNP discovered a cure for cancer Labour would feed the Record a press release condemning the loss of jobs in the medical sector, and they'd print it.
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