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Tags new york times , racism charges , Sarah Jeong , Twitter incidents

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Old 16th August 2018, 12:45 PM   #281
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Interesting. Does this mean that treasonous jokes can still be treasonous?
Jokes cannot be treasonous, not in the US. They don't fit our definition of treason.

Quote:
Just trying to put together a cohesive theory of humor . . .
Start with a coherent definition of the words you use.
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Old 16th August 2018, 01:00 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Jokes cannot be treasonous, not in the US. They don't fit our definition of treason.
A joke cannot be seen as adhering to our enemies, giving them aid and comfort?

Interesting.
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Old 16th August 2018, 01:09 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
A joke cannot be seen as adhering to our enemies, giving them aid and comfort?

Interesting.
I can't control how you see a joke. But a joke doesn't really accomplish those things.

But consider what your interpretation would actually mean, if it became accepted: you could execute someone for a joke. This is what you're basing your argument on. Interesting indeed.
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Old 16th August 2018, 01:27 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
No it just means that you can't automatically accept "But I was joking!" as a valid excuse only when you feel like it.
How about if you don't automatically do it, but look at the evidence and go from there? Sure, tryhards on the internet will still pretend that you're being a hypocrite because 'sometimes you accept that excuse and sometimes you don't!', but that's going to be the case regardless.
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Old 16th August 2018, 01:31 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
A joke cannot be seen as adhering to our enemies, giving them aid and comfort?

Interesting.
'I tell you, I said, it would be the best, the biggest, it would be, be magnificent. The fake news, they said don't do it. The CIA said it couldn't, couldn't be done. But did the crooked Democrats ever blow their tops when I handed Crooked Hillary Clinton over to the Russians! Like it would end the country! Did we pull the biggest joke on her! But the lying snowflakes can't take a joke.'
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Old 16th August 2018, 03:00 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I can't control how you see a joke. But a joke doesn't really accomplish those things.

But consider what your interpretation would actually mean, if it became accepted: you could execute someone for a joke. This is what you're basing your argument on. Interesting indeed.
OK, treason is maybe a step too far. Besides, this is the wrong thread for that conversation. My bad. Carry on.
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Old 16th August 2018, 03:03 PM   #287
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Well at least this one is a real "racist".

https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits...he-ching-chong

Maybe Jeong could report on it and make a joke about whites somehow.

Last edited by Stankeye; 16th August 2018 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 16th August 2018, 04:13 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Evidence?

Some internet discussion with Contrarians resemble Monty Python's "Argument Bureau" skit.
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Old 16th August 2018, 04:16 PM   #289
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No it doesn't
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Old 16th August 2018, 04:33 PM   #290
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Yes it does.
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Old 16th August 2018, 06:46 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Yes it does.
That's just contradiction!
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Old 17th August 2018, 03:38 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
You say that as if being a joke means it can't be racist. But that's transparently false. Jokes can still be racist. And Jeong's tweets were racist. Did I miss some of the jokes? Possibly. Are you covering for racist tweets? Oh hells yes.
"Covering for"? Is that Zigsprechen for "explaining"? 'Cuz, see, that's what I'm doing - trying to explain to those who aren't calcified partisans that it's more than possible that her parody was, well a parody.

You're going to stand on this demand for proof and claim that anything said, even in mockery, satire or parody is serious stuff. And I'll ask you again for proof that Swift really didn't think it would be efficient to eat the Irish.

"Well, that's a joke, obviously!"


I rest my case. (Naaah, I don't rest my case. You'll counter with something equally silly as your previous posts and I'll have to explain Zigspeak to the masses, yet again.)
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Old 19th August 2018, 05:23 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Stankeye View Post
Well at least this one is a real "racist".

https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits...he-ching-chong

Maybe Jeong could report on it and make a joke about whites somehow.
No its a hillarious satirical joke making a point showing what a white guy would say if he was running.
..Evidence?
....Well they are both minorities and everyone knows minorities can't be racist.
If you insist on arguing then you should probably find out (and make sure you show your working!) which minority is the most minor and if It is the Asian chick, well then, that shows how bigotted all white men are for introducing racisim to minorities. (Not that it is racisim it is just cutting razor sharp ironic satire.) Take that pale skinned patriarchy.

Last edited by Hungry81; 19th August 2018 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 19th August 2018, 06:05 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
"Covering for"? Is that Zigsprechen for "explaining"? 'Cuz, see, that's what I'm doing - trying to explain to those who aren't calcified partisans that it's more than possible that her parody was, well a parody.

You're going to stand on this demand for proof and claim that anything said, even in mockery, satire or parody is serious stuff. And I'll ask you again for proof that Swift really didn't think it would be efficient to eat the Irish.

"Well, that's a joke, obviously!"


I rest my case. (Naaah, I don't rest my case. You'll counter with something equally silly as your previous posts and I'll have to explain Zigspeak to the masses, yet again.)
What would you even accept as proof that something isnít parody? Nothing, as far as I can tell. But an argument which accepts no possibility of contradiction isnít actually strong, itís irrelevant.
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Old 19th August 2018, 06:28 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
No its a hillarious satirical joke making a point showing what a white guy would say if he was running.
..Evidence?
At this point, y'all are outright ignoring "evidence", such as the clearly stated intentions of Jeong. So...why even bother giving you any more? Isn't it about time for some evidence that she *wasn't* engaging in satire, instead?

Yes, what Scott said about Chang was not parody (unless you can find Chang saying "Vote for Ching-Chong!", which you can't*), it was simple and open racism. Thus, it's of no relevance to the thread, except as a show of bad faith from people who insist on ignoring the obvious differences between the two cases.

*:I suppose I'd also accept a prior video of Chang stating "Don't vote for the moon cricket!" or some other such obvious slur, would also be acceptable.

I look forward to the "Jeong hates white people" crowd continuing to miss the most basic point...
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Old 19th August 2018, 11:30 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
At this point, y'all are outright ignoring "evidence", such as the clearly stated intentions of Jeong. So...why even bother giving you any more? Isn't it about time for some evidence that she *wasn't* engaging in satire, instead?
...
Would you accept such explanation if it was from white person (and target of tweets being black supremacist)?
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Old 20th August 2018, 03:22 AM   #297
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There is good racism apparently
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Old 20th August 2018, 05:52 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
What would you even accept as proof that something isnít parody? Nothing, as far as I can tell. But an argument which accepts no possibility of contradiction isnít actually strong, itís irrelevant.
Well my standards of evidence are pretty high. We refer to it as the proof that he's not a thin-skinned narcissist standard.

So why don't we simply leave it as is? You can keep on being wrong, and I can continue knowing you are. Seems we wasted a lot of time, though, because that's the exact same position we started in.

(I like that last sentence, there, though. You actually typed that without having you irony meter go into its self-destruct sequence? A number of us have shown how it is very easy to see that it's parody. You see no possibility that Zig could be wrong, so you continue repeating the same tired **** as if pontificating wins an argument.)
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Old 20th August 2018, 09:08 AM   #299
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Old 20th August 2018, 03:07 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
At this point, y'all are outright ignoring "evidence", such as the clearly stated intentions of Jeong. So...why even bother giving you any more? Isn't it about time for some evidence that she *wasn't* engaging in satire, instead?

Yes, what Scott said about Chang was not parody (unless you can find Chang saying "Vote for Ching-Chong!", which you can't*), it was simple and open racism. Thus, it's of no relevance to the thread, except as a show of bad faith from people who insist on ignoring the obvious differences between the two cases.

*:I suppose I'd also accept a prior video of Chang stating "Don't vote for the moon cricket!" or some other such obvious slur, would also be acceptable.

I look forward to the "Jeong hates white people" crowd continuing to miss the most basic point...
Ahh. So what you are saying is Chang can now say ironic racist things about blacks and be fine.
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Old 20th August 2018, 03:15 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
At this point, y'all are outright ignoring "evidence", such as the clearly stated intentions of Jeong.
Clearly stated intentions after she got caught, you mean? Suppose David Duke comes out tomorrow and admits that he was just joking about whites being superior to blacks. Are you going to chuckle and admit that he had you going for awhile but now you see how funny it all was?
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Old 20th August 2018, 04:43 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Stankeye View Post
Ahh. So what you are saying is Chang can now say ironic racist things about blacks and be fine.
If I think it's funny, like that picture of Ellen Degeneres riding on Usain Bolt's back that I found both racist and hilarious right in the thread I'm linking here? Sure. Or Michael Brooks' black nationalist impressions of Barack Obama, Nelson Mandela, and the like? Love those.

Chang is a politician, and of course she has to be restrained when it comes to humor. Jeong, though? As long as she's funny, sure, she's free to crack jokes at the expense of Bill Cosby, Tariq Nasheed, or whoever.

(There's a lot to say here about how people that are angry at what is outright stated to be satire, are also likely unable to come up with any good jokes themselves - and how much of conservative "humor", as well as conservative reaction to jokes, show that they can't tell humor from simply cruelty. But that's another topic, and I'm not all that interested in typing that much only for yet more outraged responses.)
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Old 20th August 2018, 05:02 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
If I think it's funny, like that picture of Ellen Degeneres riding on Usain Bolt's back that I found both racist and hilarious right in the thread I'm linking here? Sure. Or Michael Brooks' black nationalist impressions of Barack Obama, Nelson Mandela, and the like? Love those.

Chang is a politician, and of course she has to be restrained when it comes to humor. Jeong, though? As long as she's funny, sure, she's free to crack jokes at the expense of Bill Cosby, Tariq Nasheed, or whoever.

(There's a lot to say here about how people that are angry at what is outright stated to be satire, are also likely unable to come up with any good jokes themselves - and how much of conservative "humor", as well as conservative reaction to jokes, show that they can't tell humor from simply cruelty. But that's another topic, and I'm not all that interested in typing that much only for yet more outraged responses.)
Ok I think I get it. Your first response in that thread was

Quote:
I mean...it is racist...

But it's also funny, so...
If the racism is intended to be funny then it can get a pass, like you said at the beginning of your post "If I think it's funny.." for if Chang decided to make a joke about Scott, then the pass would be if it was funny. Maybe Chang could combine two obvious american black names together and that would be funny, I think ching, chang, and chong are all common Chinese names. (TBD)

Anyways I think that is my take away.
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Old 20th August 2018, 05:56 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Would you accept such explanation if it was from white person (and target of tweets being black supremacist)?
I would. Wouldn't you?

It's a little disconcerting that some who do all sorts of contortions to dismiss claims of racism in most cases (some who work VERY HARD at it in fact) find that it just happens to be the times minorities explicitly make jokes about the crazy **** white supremacists and racist say that it MUST be racism...

Yes, it is possible to separate out those who are earnestly joking from those who are not, and it isn't, contrary to the broad brush applied, simply based on the race of the person making the statement for everyone, or even most, on the left. This is the same silliness people thought about the left being critical of Sheriff Clark, thinking he 'should' have been off limits to the left by the left's standards...but that isn't actually the standard so the criticisms should have come as no surprise. Again and again it happens, and I can't tell who is being honestly confused and who is just maintaining a straw man purposefully.
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Old 20th August 2018, 06:08 PM   #305
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The suggestion that this sneering bigot is a total bigot ain’t a straw man.
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Old 20th August 2018, 06:18 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
The suggestion that this sneering bigot is a total bigot ainít a straw man.
Weird to brag about that, but if you want to insist you're a total bigot, you do you.
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