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Tags Charles Kinsey , Jonathan Aledda , police misconduct charges , police shootings , racial incidents , racism charges

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Old 21st July 2016, 11:57 AM   #201
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Yeah, but they're not common, and they're certainly not standard police issue.
So likely three negligent discharges back to back. This is even higher levels of incompetence than expected.
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Old 21st July 2016, 12:00 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I just don't think you can take a direct hit in the leg at close range with an AR-15 round and think it was a mosquito bite, or have much chance of keeping your leg.
What is your alternate scenario, he wasn't really shot?
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Old 21st July 2016, 12:09 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
What is your alternate scenario, he wasn't really shot?
Yeah, that's exactly what all my posts have said...way to read them!

He probably just jabbed himself with a pencil...
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Old 21st July 2016, 12:16 PM   #204
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Maybe it's time that North Miami got a visit from Black Lives Matter.
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Old 21st July 2016, 12:17 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
Maybe it's time that North Miami got a visit from Black Lives Matter.
Just because the cops messed up is no reason to want them dead.
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Old 21st July 2016, 12:23 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Criticizing the police for actions like this clearly feeds into the narrative of those who are angry and want to kill cops. That is why filming police needs to be made the level of crime it is based on how detrimental it is to public perceptions of police competence.
Why? Because it shows the truth, that there are a lot of PPJO's (pistol-packing jerk-offs) in uniform?

Not all police are "bad." Not all civilians are criminals. When the police quit reacting to all civilians as criminals, maybe people will stop treating cops as bad.

Might help if they cleaned their own ranks as well. Police are a closed society -- Us vs Them, with Them being anyone not a cop. I've seen it. The closest real-world example is a gang. If they don't want Them coming in to deal with the reportedly few bad apples and incompetents, then it would behoove them to do it themselves.

The situation is ridiculous -- even I'm scared of the cops these days, and I normally back them on most everything. They've been militarized and brainwashed into believing they're under assault that their actions have made it a self-confirming prophecy.

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Old 21st July 2016, 12:24 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
So likely three negligent discharges back to back. This is even higher levels of incompetence than expected.
Assuming the cop actually had a select fire assault rifle, setting it to burst fire in this scenario would be an unforgivable error, imo.
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Old 21st July 2016, 12:26 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
Maybe it's time that North Miami got a visit from Black Lives Matter.
This looks very much like a mistake by the cop, not an intentional shooting.

A mistake that should get him fired and charged with a crime, but still a mistake.
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Old 21st July 2016, 12:29 PM   #209
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Quote:
Kinsey, 47, who’s worked at MacTown Panther Group Homes for a little over a year, wasn’t badly injured and is expected to be home by Thursday.
Not badly injured. Must have been a ricochet/graze. Or possibly hit by a piece of jacket.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loca...e90905442.html
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Old 21st July 2016, 12:30 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And now you are trying to ruin a mans career for one little mistake.
That said man totally ruined another man's life for "one little mistake."

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Old 21st July 2016, 12:33 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
Maybe it's time that North Miami got a visit from Black Lives Matter.
Originally Posted by AdamSK View Post
Just because the cops messed up is no reason to want them dead.
Interesting CT conflation from the Facts Don't Matter crowd.
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Old 21st July 2016, 12:34 PM   #212
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Wait, "Another"? Who was the first? Not still flogging the long since debunked by Obama's DOJ Mike Brown dead horse are you?
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Old 21st July 2016, 12:38 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Beanbag View Post
That said man totally ruined another man's life for "one little mistake."

Beanbag
Fortunately the injury was not bad and only the cop's life is apparently ruined.
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Old 21st July 2016, 12:45 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Beanbag View Post
Why? Because it shows the truth, that there are a lot of PPJO's (pistol-packing jerk-offs) in uniform?

Not all police are "bad." Not all civilians are criminals. When the police quit reacting to all civilians as criminals, maybe people will stop treating cops as bad.
They are not bad they just are the kind of people who will refuse aid to some innocent that their buddy accidentally shot. And make a point of arresting the innocent victim before medical care. Nothing wrong with any of that it is basic policework 101.

Any cop who actually wanted to treat the victim here before going through with the arrest would certainly lose their job, no one would work with a rat like that.
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Old 21st July 2016, 12:46 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Assuming the cop actually had a select fire assault rifle, setting it to burst fire in this scenario would be an unforgivable error, imo.
Worse than 3 negligent discharges of a handgun?

Really the shocking thing here is that none of the other cops opened fire.
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Old 21st July 2016, 01:06 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
He's complaining about the 'another hands up' as if Brown was the only time that has occurred. He thinks that never happens.

Video Shows UNARMED Man With Hands Up Right Before Cops Shoot and Kill Him Oh wait, that guy was white.

Here's a black man:
New Jersey Cops Shot Man With Hands Up, Get Away With Video Recorded Murder

That search took less than a minute.
Not complaining. Just making sure based on past performance.
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Old 21st July 2016, 01:08 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Not complaining. Just making sure based on past performance.
Hey we can also point out to many times they shot non criminals who were lying on the ground as well. This has the interesting case of being both.
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Old 21st July 2016, 01:26 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Even so, my leg would be a mangled mess from an AR-15 round.

In no way would it feel like a "mosquito bite".

Possibly ricochet and debris, perhaps?

This was not an AR-15, it was an M4. Shorter barrel, and the rounds used typically have a lower muzzle velocity to avoid over-penetration and bystander casualties. If they're using the standard ball rounds like the military does, the round can punch straight through the leg, and as long as it doesn't hit a bone it will leave an easily survivable wound. Those rounds do not mushroom out like the hollowpoints typically used in handguns, and shock can often cause the pain response to be lessened greatly.
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Old 21st July 2016, 01:28 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
He's complaining about the 'another hands up' as if Brown was the only time that has occurred. He thinks that never happens.

Video Shows UNARMED Man With Hands Up Right Before Cops Shoot and Kill Him Oh wait, that guy was white.

Here's a black man:
New Jersey Cops Shot Man With Hands Up, Get Away With Video Recorded Murder

That search took less than a minute.
And that black man was shot by a black cop. And the guy wasn't exactly a saint--he had a gun in the car and had previously served 13 years in prison for shooting at cops, which the policeman apparently already knew about.

Quote:
The officers told investigators that they feared for their lives during the December 2014 stop of 36-year-old Jerame Reid, according to a statement from the Cumberland County Prosecutor's Office. The officers had arrested Reid in August 2014 on charges of resisting arrest and knew he had served about 13 years in prison after being convicted as a teenager of shooting at state troopers, investigators said.
And he was not obeying orders to stay in the car:

Quote:
Reid steps out of the vehicle against the officer's orders, with his hands up about shoulder level. Days and his partner, Officer Roger Worley, who's white, open fire.
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Old 21st July 2016, 01:32 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Ahh...yes.

That is probably the best answer.

It was a pistol round.
Some AR-15 platforms, and probably M4s as well, can be converted to fire 9x19mm pistol ammunition. All the same, even if it was a .223 that's not a guaranteed devastating wound unless it hits bone - if it went in and out hitting nothing but soft tissue then it's not impossible he didn't feel much. Let's remember he's surrounded by cops with assault rifles trained on him, he's not in his normal frame of mind.

I'm open to this being a negligent discharge, but that in no way excuses the handcuffing and denial of medical treatment.

And I forget who said it here, but being handcuffed is not a requirement across the board for riding in the back of a squad car. When a truck crashed into my car a few years ago and it got towed, I had no ride home and no money for a cab, so Dallas PD gave me a ride in the back, and I wasn't cuffed.
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Old 21st July 2016, 01:33 PM   #221
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Well if the shooting was intentional, then it was very bad marksmanship. That's why I think it was not intentional.
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Old 21st July 2016, 01:46 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Are you sure? It's SOP to take people to the ED, not the jail clinic for a GSW.
You are right. I am mistaken.

I can't find the original video where I thought I heard 20 minutes then to jail then to hospital.

Quote:
They flipped me over, and Im faced down in the ground, with cuffs on, waiting on the rescue squad to come. Id say about 20, about 20 minutes it took the rescue squad to get there.
Still doesn't excuse 20 minutes handcuffed face down with a gun shot wound. :-/
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Old 21st July 2016, 01:49 PM   #223
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Did the caller break the law?

I'd like to know who called the police to report the situation and exactly what was said. I feel it's important to know if someone called saying a man had a gun and was threatening suicide-- and if the caller knew that was false but just wanted to cause trouble?

I wonder if what the caller did was an intentional cruel and wicked act, akin to a hate crime?
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Old 21st July 2016, 01:53 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Well if the shooting was intentional, then it was very bad marksmanship. That's why I think it was not intentional.

Then you have a greatly exaggerated view of police marksmanship. There was an incident here a number of years ago where 5 or 6 police officers discharged a dozen round ammunition each at a single target standing in the middle of the road, from close range, with only about a half-dozen hitting him.

I can't find the specific news article on it; but I did find this gem:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b093be51bbb978

Police officers do not spend nearly enough time training with their firearms, and some of them are seriously bad shots.
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Old 21st July 2016, 01:56 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Ernie M View Post
I wonder if what the caller did was an intentional cruel and wicked act, akin to a hate crime?

It's possible, but it's even more possible that it was just some moron panicking, over-reacting, and exaggerating what they saw in their own mind. I've certainly seen enough of that happen, particularly involving the mentally ill.

Not that the former does not happen. In fact, some people even do it as a joke.
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Old 21st July 2016, 02:06 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Is it accurate to class an autistic man as mentally ill?
No, but he may have been mentally ill as well. More likely he was confused and distressed and in a blind panic.

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Old 21st July 2016, 02:12 PM   #227
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I'm... not sure this makes it better:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydai...client=safari#
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Old 21st July 2016, 02:14 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Then you have a greatly exaggerated view of police marksmanship. There was an incident here a number of years ago where 5 or 6 police officers discharged a dozen round ammunition each at a single target standing in the middle of the road, from close range, with only about a half-dozen hitting him.

I can't find the specific news article on it; but I did find this gem:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b093be51bbb978

Police officers do not spend nearly enough time training with their firearms, and some of them are seriously bad shots.
I always thought this one was pretty good. 9 bystanders injured by cops' bullets. Because shooting in a crowded area makes so much sense. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/woman-su...tate-shooting/
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Old 21st July 2016, 02:15 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Then you have a greatly exaggerated view of police marksmanship. There was an incident here a number of years ago where 5 or 6 police officers discharged a dozen round ammunition each at a single target standing in the middle of the road, from close range, with only about a half-dozen hitting him.

I can't find the specific news article on it; but I did find this gem:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b093be51bbb978

Police officers do not spend nearly enough time training with their firearms, and some of them are seriously bad shots.
Don't forget Winston Hayes.

"When 44-year-old drug suspect Winston Hayes' SUV lurched forward he hit a police car, deputies unloaded their weapons, firing 120 shots. Four bullets ended up hitting Hayes who survived, one hit a deputy sheriff, 11 hit patrol cars and 11 hit five homes in the neighborhood (one of them ended up tearing a hole in a homeowner's hat)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contagious_shooting
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Old 21st July 2016, 02:24 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
I'm... not sure this makes it better:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydai...client=safari#
I... have no words..

Quote:
The officer meant to hit the autistic man Kinsey was trying to help and he fired three times, according to North Miami police.

But he missed the patient, and hit Kinsey instead, the union chief explained. The cop feared the confused autistic patient holding a toy truck as he sat next to Kinsey on the pavement might have posed a safety threat, the labor leader said.
"Might have posed a safety threat". "Might have"?! In what twisted world is that enough to open fire?
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Old 21st July 2016, 02:26 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by lobosrul View Post
Don't forget Winston Hayes.

"When 44-year-old drug suspect Winston Hayes' SUV lurched forward he hit a police car, deputies unloaded their weapons, firing 120 shots. Four bullets ended up hitting Hayes who survived, one hit a deputy sheriff, 11 hit patrol cars and 11 hit five homes in the neighborhood (one of them ended up tearing a hole in a homeowner's hat)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contagious_shooting
geezes Lol
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Old 21st July 2016, 02:29 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
I... have no words..



"Might have posed a safety threat". "Might have"?! In what twisted world is that enough to open fire?
That cop seems to be a typical "What if..." Monkey: the kind of people who can imagine something sinister no matter how innocent the actual events.
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Old 21st July 2016, 02:41 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
That used to be a joke.

Now, I think it's sound advice for many situations.

It wasn't even a joke anymore when it was "... call a hippie".

Surprisingly little has changed.
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Old 21st July 2016, 02:43 PM   #234
Giordano
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It was probably just a misunderstanding:

"911? There is a man on the corner trying to commit suicide. Can you displace [edited-dispatch] an officer to help him?"

Last edited by Giordano; 21st July 2016 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 21st July 2016, 02:52 PM   #235
lionking
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
It was probably just a misunderstanding:

"911? There is a man on the corner trying to commit suicide. Can you displace an officer to help him?"
The problem in this case is that more officers should have been displaced.




Yeah, a typo.....
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Old 21st July 2016, 02:56 PM   #236
Giordano
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
The problem in this case is that more officers should have been displaced.




Yeah, a typo.....
Sorry- fixed. Honestly- it was a typo! Really!
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Old 21st July 2016, 03:02 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
I... have no words..



"Might have posed a safety threat". "Might have"?! In what twisted world is that enough to open fire?
The cop negligently fired. He even said "I don't know" when he was first asked why he shot. He's had a little time to think, and this lame-assed lie was the best he could come up with. Miami's finest at work.
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Old 21st July 2016, 03:12 PM   #238
Nakani
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Originally Posted by erlando View Post
"Might have posed a safety threat". "Might have"?! In what twisted world is that enough to open fire?
When did cops become such scared wimps? I remember the old days when the police would run up, cuff him, dog pile and give him an old fashioned beat down. Now it's just hide behind the car and shoot, pathetic.
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Old 21st July 2016, 03:27 PM   #239
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Some interview ..

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36859305
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Old 21st July 2016, 03:30 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Fortunately the injury was not bad and only the cop's life is apparently ruined.
Well maybe you can help him explain to his kids what the proper way to act is when dealing the with the police so that they don't get shot for no reason.

Do think he is lying when he says he is in counselling and has no idea what to tell them? Is that not a significant thing to have happened?
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