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Tags donald trump , immigration incidents , immigration issues , racism charges

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Old 12th February 2017, 11:01 AM   #161
dudalb
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Their citizenship was obtained via her unlawful actions. Revoke their citizenship and deport them with her.

Overturn the incorrect ruling by a single judge in the 1980's declaring this birthright citizenship nonsense. Revoke all citizenship obtained via this farce when the parent or parents were illegal aliens.

Tabulate how much she cost American taxpayers during her time here, and including any costs her children generated, and send an invoice to Mexico.

Great. Here comes our resident White Supremist......
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Old 12th February 2017, 11:36 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Tank View Post
Their citizenship was obtained via her unlawful actions. Revoke their citizenship and deport them with her.

Overturn the incorrect ruling by a single judge in the 1980's declaring this birthright citizenship nonsense. Revoke all citizenship obtained via this farce when the parent or parents were illegal aliens.

Tabulate how much she cost American taxpayers during her time here, and including any costs her children generated, and send an invoice to Mexico.
If we throw out the aliens, poor Mr. Trump will end up single again. After all, there are some dirty jobs no real American will do.
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Old 12th February 2017, 12:41 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
....
Of course I'm sure you'd be happy to revoke the 14th amendment, since it goes contrary to so many of your stated priciples, but birthright citizenship is built into that, and it goes a bit prior to the 1980's, I think. And whether it's right or not, good or not, an oversight or not, the 14th amendment does not specify that the parents of a native born American be legal.
"Amendment XIV Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,.... "

Some believe that the "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" part means the parent must be here legally. Like on a visa.

Has it ever been parsed by the courts? Or does 'under the jurisdiction' mean section 1 does not count in foreign countries?

eta Or maybe it means you are not a citizen if you are not on American Soil? Or maybe it means you are a citizen if born in the Canal Zone? (Does the canal Zone still exist?)
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Old 12th February 2017, 01:38 PM   #164
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Where is this one judge's ruling in 1980 nonsense coming from?

Wiki is chock full of legal rulings and laws, including the 14th Amendment that address birthright citizenship and there is nothing about one judge in 1980. That has to be some really far fetched alt-right Infowars or Breitbart lie.
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Old 12th February 2017, 01:41 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
(Does the canal Zone still exist?)
Not legally but all those white clapboard houses in the middle of a jungle do stand out.

McCain was born there.
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Old 12th February 2017, 02:31 PM   #166
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Quote:
Christensen said the raids, which began Monday and ended Friday at noon, found undocumented immigrants from a dozen Latin American countries. “We’re talking about people who are threats to public safety or a threat to the integrity of the immigration system,” she said, noting that the majority of those detained were serious criminals, including some who were convicted of murder and domestic violence.

....

David Marin, ICE’s field director in the Los Angeles area, said in a conference call with reporters Friday that 75 percent of the approximately 160 people detained in the operation this week had felony convictions; the rest had misdemeanors or were in the United States illegally. Officials said Friday night that 37 of those detained in Los Angeles had been deported to Mexico.

...

Federal immigration officials, as well as activists, said that the majority of those detained were adult men, and that no children were taken into custody.
Targeted raids, apprehending mostly known adult male felons.

Are they driving around picking up people at random? No, they are not.

Is this thread just a giant straw man?

Quote:
"Across the country, about 11 percent of Americans do not have government-issued photo identification cards, such as a driver’s license or a passport, according to Wendy Weiser of the Democracy Program at the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University School of Law."
Is this including children and non citizens? I'd need to see evidence of this claim. I see it in the voter ID threads, and I'm not convinced that these people cannot easily obtain an ID.

Personally, I'm more about keeping people out that rounding up everyone who is already here. However if they are known criminals, I'm fine with it.

For the people here walking around without ID, you might consider carrying one for a lot of reasons. I'm thinking medical emergencies mainly. Then again, people are not being pulled over at random and arrested because they are "brown" and look like non-citizens. Or is there a new policy I am unaware of?

If Americans start getting caught up in deportations at an alarming rate then that would be a concern.
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Old 12th February 2017, 02:33 PM   #167
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I'm alarmed by any rate of Americans caught up in deportations.
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Old 12th February 2017, 02:57 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Some kind of badge, or a patch sewn on to a coat maybe.
That always works well.
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Old 12th February 2017, 03:06 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
That always works well.
Or a number tattooed on. You can't leaver home without it! And in case of mass death, it would readily identify your body.

Maybe do it on a fore arm, where the aurthorities can readily see it, then no unwarranted search needed. "Roll up your sleeves" doesn't seem like an unreasonable request.
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Old 12th February 2017, 03:11 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Targeted raids, apprehending mostly known adult male felons.

Are they driving around picking up people at random? No, they are not.

Is this thread just a giant straw man?



Is this including children and non citizens? I'd need to see evidence of this claim. I see it in the voter ID threads, and I'm not convinced that these people cannot easily obtain an ID.

Personally, I'm more about keeping people out that rounding up everyone who is already here. However if they are known criminals, I'm fine with it.

For the people here walking around without ID, you might consider carrying one for a lot of reasons. I'm thinking medical emergencies mainly. Then again, people are not being pulled over at random and arrested because they are "brown" and look like non-citizens. Or is there a new policy I am unaware of?

If Americans start getting caught up in deportations at an alarming rate then that would be a concern.
So the mother of two US citizens who had a felony conviction for using a fake SSN in 2008 and voluntarily went in for her 8th annual check-in with ICE counts as a violent felon I suppose?

That alarming rate even beats the callousness of xjx388's if they're not like me they don't matter criteria.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 12th February 2017 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 12th February 2017, 03:14 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
"Amendment XIV Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,.... "

Some believe that the "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" part means the parent must be here legally. Like on a visa.

Has it ever been parsed by the courts? Or does 'under the jurisdiction' mean section 1 does not count in foreign countries?

eta Or maybe it means you are not a citizen if you are not on American Soil? Or maybe it means you are a citizen if born in the Canal Zone? (Does the canal Zone still exist?)
I believe territories count, and when the Canal Zone was a territory it would have. It's no longer a territory.

The issue of jurisdiction is debated. I don't think it's been definitively decided. It's been to the Supreme Court only in the case of legal immigrants and former slaves, as far as I know. They have declined some cases on this, including, it seems, one that might have overturned the racist exclusion of natives of American Samoa.

It appears that the amendment was worded initially to exclude those born in Indian territory, who were later added by statute. There appears to be some dispute as to whether this law would also exclude children of parents who owe allegiance to another country via dual citizenship, or whether it would only apply if such allegiance were claimed for them, or neither. Given that many children who are indisputably citizens owing to one or another factor also still enjoy inherent dual citizenship if they want it, puts a few worms in that can.

In general, it seems that the jurisdiction clause is interpreted to mean that a person owes his loyalty only to the United States, and, aside from the shameful exclusion of Indians in its original form, and Samoans now, it would exclude the children of diplomats and tourists and others who do not intend themselves or their children to be American or to be subject to American jurisdiction. The status of illegal immigrants is, obviously, a little ambiguous, but along with the argument that an illegal immigrant is not a legal resident, one could also argue that when birthright citizenship is claimed, the intent is clearly for that person be a citizen.
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Old 12th February 2017, 03:16 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Or a number tattooed on. You can't leaver home without it! And in case of mass death, it would readily identify your body.

Maybe do it on a fore arm, where the aurthorities can readily see it, then no unwarranted search needed. "Roll up your sleeves" doesn't seem like an unreasonable request.
You have got to be kidding.........
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Old 12th February 2017, 03:17 PM   #173
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Let's be frank: if the illegals were White Canadians,we would not be having this discussion.
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Old 12th February 2017, 04:11 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Let's be frank: if the illegals were White Canadians,we would not be having this discussion.
True. We would have sent those hosers right back to the Great White North, along with the moose they rode in on, and nobody would have squawked about it (except maybe to say "Get the hell oot, and stay oot!"
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Old 12th February 2017, 04:12 PM   #175
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Plus this 'just carry your ID on you' thing is still missing the point. The most frequently carried form of ID (driver's license) does not constitute proof of citizenship or lawful residence.
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Old 12th February 2017, 05:26 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Or a number tattooed on. You can't leaver home without it! And in case of mass death, it would readily identify your body.

Maybe do it on a fore arm, where the aurthorities can readily see it, then no unwarranted search needed. "Roll up your sleeves" doesn't seem like an unreasonable request.
How about we just put it on the forehead, then they don't even need to have people roll up their sleeves, it's in plain sight.
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Old 12th February 2017, 05:45 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Let's be frank: if the illegals were White Canadians,we would not be having this discussion.
I don't know, America has a proud tradition of hating on white immigrants too.
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Old 12th February 2017, 05:48 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
You have got to be kidding.........
I am pretty sure he is, if you look at his position in this debate so far. Casebro is quite conservative on some issues, but generally appears to be sane.
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Old 12th February 2017, 05:50 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Or a number tattooed on. You can't leaver home without it! And in case of mass death, it would readily identify your body.

Maybe do it on a fore arm, where the aurthorities can readily see it, then no unwarranted search needed. "Roll up your sleeves" doesn't seem like an unreasonable request.
Just implant a microchip. If it's good enough to identify a dog it should work for a person.
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Old 12th February 2017, 05:52 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey View Post
I'm alarmed by any rate of Americans caught up in deportations.
On the other hand, you must know that law enforcement is going to result in innocent people being targeted. That is inevitable and the fact that it happens occasionally shouldn't dissuade us from enforcing laws, unless the number of innocents being hassled reaches alarming levels.

For the record, I don't agree we should have deported that mother. People who have been here for awhile, whose only crime is trying to make it easier to work, should pay some restitution and have a chance to become permanent residents. That being said, when you come into a country illegally, you takes your chances.
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Old 12th February 2017, 06:52 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
I don't know, America has a proud tradition of hating on white immigrants too.
I think it's more accurate to say that America has a proud tradition of constantly changing the definition of 'white' to suit their prejudices.

The idea of 'whiteness' is an entirely fabricated and subjective social construct.
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Old 12th February 2017, 06:53 PM   #182
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I would point out, again, that most did not enter the country illegally, but overstayed a visa, which is a civil offense, not criminal.
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Old 12th February 2017, 07:05 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I think it's more accurate to say that America has a proud tradition of constantly changing the definition of 'white' to suit their prejudices.

The idea of 'whiteness' is an entirely fabricated and subjective social construct.
I don't know about that, but Germans, Poles, Irish, and Italians have all had to deal with bigotry.
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Old 12th February 2017, 07:10 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
I don't know, America has a proud tradition of hating on white immigrants too.
That's too true. Irish, Italians, Jews, and others segregated themselves into their own neighborhoods because of oppression.
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Old 12th February 2017, 07:11 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I think it's more accurate to say that America has a proud tradition of constantly changing the definition of 'white' to suit their prejudices.

The idea of 'whiteness' is an entirely fabricated and subjective social construct.
and this^^^
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Old 12th February 2017, 07:19 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
I don't know about that, but Germans, Poles, Irish, and Italians have all had to deal with bigotry.
That's too true. Irish, Italians, Jews, and others segregated themselves into their own neighborhoods because of oppression.
As Delphic Oracle pointed out the definition of white changes to suit prejudiced needs. Eighteenth century views of whiteness were very different. Take Benjamin Franklin's essay Observations Concerning the Increase of Mankind, Peopling of Countries, etc.

Quote:
All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth.
Anglo-Saxons were the only white people then. That's not even getting into the eccentricities of religious bigotry which was coupled with it.

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Old 12th February 2017, 07:21 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
As Delphic Oracle pointed out the definition of white changes to suit prejudicial needs. Eighteenth century views of whiteness were very different. Take Benjamin Franklin's essay Observations Concerning the Increase of Mankind, Peopling of Countries, etc.



Anglo-Saxons were the only white people then. That's not even getting into the eccentricities of religious bigotry which was coupled with it.
"Tawny" sounds kind of hot.
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Old 12th February 2017, 07:34 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
"Tawny" sounds kind of hot.
The modern equivalent is 'dusky' if I'm not mistaken. It's the 'exotic' allure.

I have a friend who works at a bar (so she is frequently updated on the latest superficial dehumanization lingo). A few weeks ago I was sipping my whiskey when someone getting a drink said "damn honey, what exotic locale are you from?" She fired back without missing a beat, "I'm a native, you colonialist prick, now get off my land."

My nostrils are still burning.
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Old 12th February 2017, 08:08 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by Fudbucker View Post
I don't know about that, but Germans, Poles, Irish, and Italians have all had to deal with bigotry.
Yes, but let's not forget that it was bigotry then.
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Old 12th February 2017, 08:22 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
The modern equivalent is 'dusky' if I'm not mistaken. It's the 'exotic' allure.

I have a friend who works at a bar (so she is frequently updated on the latest superficial dehumanization lingo). A few weeks ago I was sipping my whiskey when someone getting a drink said "damn honey, what exotic locale are you from?" She fired back without missing a beat, "I'm a native, you colonialist prick, now get off my land."

My nostrils are still burning.
"Bronze" is good too.
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Old 12th February 2017, 08:36 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Where is this one judge's ruling in 1980 nonsense coming from?

Wiki is chock full of legal rulings and laws, including the 14th Amendment that address birthright citizenship and there is nothing about one judge in 1980. That has to be some really far fetched alt-right Infowars or Breitbart lie.
Breitbart opens mouth. Lies pour forth (and fifth.........)!!!
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Old 12th February 2017, 08:50 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I have a friend who works at a bar (so she is frequently updated on the latest superficial dehumanization lingo). A few weeks ago I was sipping my whiskey when someone getting a drink said "damn honey, what exotic locale are you from?" She fired back without missing a beat, "I'm a native, you colonialist prick, now get off my land."
Ouch. That's gonna leave a mark.
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Old 12th February 2017, 10:07 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
Yeah, the part about trailing children home from school so they can deport a parent is charming. There's nothing that screams your party's Christian commitment to The Sanctity of the Family like exiling Mom or Dad.

It's like, instead of seriously addressing the issues of illegal immigration, especially that of American children whose parents have been living here without authorization, they put Snidely Whiplash in charge and told him to deport dangerous criminals; or, if that took actual effort, random homemakers and laborers.
Oh, all those poor, poor illegal border-crossers. A small group of people was temporarily inconvenienced, and ironically, it was the Looney Tune
Left wing snowflakes that made their suffering all the worse by raising such a stink.

No one has a God-given right, or any kind of right, to be here except those that are born of birth or the old-fashioned way...LEGALLY!!! What a radical concept for your average snowflake to boggle his/her brainpan. How about border control, and immigration in general.
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Old 12th February 2017, 10:29 PM   #194
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post
Oh, all those poor, poor illegal border-crossers. A small group of people was temporarily inconvenienced, and ironically, it was the Looney Tune
Left wing snowflakes that made their suffering all the worse by raising such a stink.

No one has a God-given right, or any kind of right, to be here except those that are born of birth or the old-fashioned way...LEGALLY!!! What a radical concept for your average snowflake to boggle his/her brainpan. How about border control, and immigration in general.
I take it from this you ignored all the actual facts.
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Old 12th February 2017, 10:31 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Ouch. That's gonna leave a mark.
I considered fetching the first aid kit to administer burn creme, but then decided it would be a waste of good resources.
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Old 12th February 2017, 10:34 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
"Tawny" sounds kind of hot.
She's a stripper
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Old 12th February 2017, 10:36 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by jakesteele View Post
Oh, all those poor, poor illegal border-crossers. A small group of people was temporarily inconvenienced, and ironically, it was the Looney Tune
Left wing snowflakes that made their suffering all the worse by raising such a stink.

No one has a God-given right, or any kind of right, to be here except those that are born of birth or the old-fashioned way...LEGALLY!!! What a radical concept for your average snowflake to boggle his/her brainpan. How about border control, and immigration in general.
Sure, like the same we legally showed up and legally planted a flag in the legally claimed ground and then legally wiped out 90%+ of the existing inhabitants.

Yes, our statements of support for people just trying to survive in this world compelled the agencies in question into doing this, they simply had no choice after that!
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Old 12th February 2017, 10:44 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So the mother of two US citizens who had a felony conviction for using a fake SSN in 2008 and voluntarily went in for her 8th annual check-in with ICE counts as a violent felon I suppose?

That alarming rate even beats the callousness of xjx388's if they're not like me they don't matter criteria.
If they aren't illegal, then they shouldn't be deported. If they are illegal, they should be deported. You say callious; I say good immigration policy.

Isn't it callous when we imprison US Citizens who who have kids who use fake SSNs for credit fraud? What's the point of laws if we aren't going to enforce them?
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Old 12th February 2017, 10:50 PM   #199
Delphic Oracle
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
If they aren't illegal, then they shouldn't be deported. If they are illegal, they should be deported. You say callious; I say good immigration policy.

Isn't it callous when we imprison US Citizens who who have kids who use fake SSNs for credit fraud? What's the point of laws if we aren't going to enforce them?
She was already caught and there was already a process determined acceptable for her to make restitution for it. Now, despite her compliance with that process, she is to be given a punishment far worse than what the crime you refer to would impose.

Seriously, if most of you 'no mercy/absolute letter of the law' types actually had to live under that kind of system, you probably wouldn't last. It's just that it's easy to make claims like that when you're relatively assured it wouldn't ever actually be turned against you.

Also, once again the language usage in which a person is described as being illegal. Not even hiding behind the 'immigrant' part now, illegal is directly applied as an adjective to the person.

Last edited by Delphic Oracle; 12th February 2017 at 10:52 PM.
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Old 12th February 2017, 10:56 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
If they aren't illegal, then they shouldn't be deported. If they are illegal, they should be deported. You say callious; I say good immigration policy.

Isn't it callous when we imprison US Citizens who who have kids who use fake SSNs for credit fraud? What's the point of laws if we aren't going to enforce them?
It's callous when a 16 yr old girl is brought here by her parents. And the US lets her live her life here. Then when she's an adult, married with two kids, and she has no avenue open to become a legal citizen or even a legal worker, she tries to work, gets caught, and probably with inadequate legal council pleads guilty to a felony (clearly overkill considering the offense). One of the stipulations is she has to check in once a year to ICE, which she does for 8 years. Until Trump.

And what Delphic Oracle says above.

Yes, IMO, your POV is worse than callous. But I don't expect you to see it that way.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 12th February 2017 at 10:58 PM.
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