ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , assault incidents , Chicago incidents , Jussie Smollett

Reply
Old Today, 05:09 PM   #1641
Stout
Illuminator
 
Stout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,407
Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
Yeah, I'd say that woman would be using sexist reasoning.

It's the sort of quiet, private discrimination that doesn't necessarily hurt anybody, but it's still technically discrimination.

I recently caught myself crossing the street every time I saw big dudes coming that I'd have to pass. I sort of asked myself why. Am I afraid they'll hurt me? Most of these encounters take place on fairly populated city streets, so that's not very reasonable. Am I afraid they'll hit on me? Maybe, but that's kind of narcissistic and presumptuous of me, isn't it? If they're not already acting weird (lurching drunkenly, hollering at other women, giving me the old eye from 10 feet away), then there's absolutely no reason to suspect a problem.

Basically, I had to admit I'd developed some habitual sexism. In the interest of practicing what I preach, I've been making a point of not crossing unless I have actual reason to suspect a problem. It also occurred to me that a lot of men probably notice when women do that (cross the street to avoid passing them). If I were a guy, that might start to get to me after awhile.
I can't say I was expecting a response like that. I was figuring that post would get totally ignored or I'd get some sort of Schrodinger's Rapist kind of thing.

I'd say it's only slightly, technically sexist as most people have a vested interest in protecting themselves from what they perceive as threats and I have no doubt that the people who lock their doors when they see a black man approaching are the same people who'd lock their doors if they saw a white-as-the-driven-snow Hell's Angel approaching.

It's kind of a weird way to try and "call someone out" for racism, almost as weird as trying to call someone out for racism by looking at what threads they post in.
Stout is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 05:13 PM   #1642
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 22,801
So people have been arrested, and relevant materials were found in their possession.

I suppose if they get charged, and convicted, and sentenced, the usual suspects will continue to insist none of this ever actually happened.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:01 PM   #1643
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,583
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
So people have been arrested, and relevant materials were found in their possession.

I suppose if they get charged, and convicted, and sentenced, the usual suspects will continue to insist none of this ever actually happened.
If they get charged and convicted, there will probably be no reason to say the "horrifying" hate crime proposed in the OP ever happened.

It's also gonna be hard to square that conviction with Smollett's claim to have been attacked by a couple of MAGA country white boys.

And quite a few of the skeptics in this thread have been willing to stipulate all along the *some kind* of scuffle occurred, even if wasn't the hate crime Smollett alleges. Alleged?

At what point did you realize that Smollett's narrative had serious problems? At what point did you decide to scold anyone who noticed those problems?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:15 PM   #1644
Graham2001
Graduate Poster
 
Graham2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,232
I'm just reading all of this and all I can say is, can we just wait for the investigation to be finished.
__________________
"I need hard facts! Bring in the dowsers!"
'America Unearthed' Season 1, Episode 13: Hunt for the Holy Grail

Everybody gets it wrong sometimes...
Graham2001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:15 PM   #1645
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 21,051
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
So people have been arrested, and relevant materials were found in their possession.

I suppose if they get charged, and convicted, and sentenced, the usual suspects will continue to insist none of this ever actually happened.
Probably best to just let the "racist hate crime" lie there as is.

Unless the white guy that attacked Smollett is found.
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:16 PM   #1646
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 21,051
Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
I'm just reading all of this and all I can say is, can we just wait for the investigation to be finished.
Of course not.

Where do you think you are?
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:27 PM   #1647
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 28,915
Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
I'm just reading all of this and all I can say is, can we just wait for the investigation to be finished.
Can we also go back in time and reverse all the grossly irresponsible comments that instantly bought every single word of the hate hoax to the point where actual elected representatives were calling this a lynching, and domestic terrorism, and tearing into the City of Chicago for harboring monsters like these MAGA COUNTRY monsters?

No?

Then no, and **** the race grifters
__________________
Welcome to Nigeria, or as we call it: MAGA COUNTRY!
The Big Dog is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:30 PM   #1648
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,583
Originally Posted by Graham2001 View Post
I'm just reading all of this and all I can say is, can we just wait for the investigation to be finished.
That's what we're doing. We're just chatting amongst ourselves while we wait.

While we're waiting: What motivated you to join the ranks of the thread scolds, on this one?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:31 PM   #1649
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,427
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
https://images.tmz.com/2019/01/29/01...apejuice-3.jpg

Many of those letters do not appear to be from a magazine. Some seem to be on card stock and some are apparently from some sort of greeting card.
That's true but some of those letters might be cut from a magazine. The search warrant may have asked for any printed materials which appear to have cut out letters or words. Maybe all that they found was a magazine with cutouts.

It is tempting to say that this search was about the letter or the attack plus the letter. One item from the search is a single piece of paper with writing. Why that? Well maybe they want to compare the writing with the writing in the letter.

Also the FBI does know where the letter was mailed from. So maybe there is video of a brother dropping this letter in a mailbox. Then they see the clothing and maybe that clothing gets listed on the search warrant. I noticed that a single red hat and a single pair of Nikes were taken. Why those? Well maybe they were worn during the mailing of the letter. Or maybe they were worn during the attack.

Police may have high definition videos of these brothers around the attack area.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:32 PM   #1650
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,583
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Can we also go back in time and reverse all the grossly irresponsible comments that instantly bought every single word of the hate hoax to the point where actual elected representatives were calling this a lynching, and domestic terrorism, and tearing into the City of Chicago for harboring monsters like these MAGA COUNTRY monsters?



No?



Then no, and **** the race grifters
QFT.

And also, can we change "horrifying" in the thread title to "tragicomic"?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:32 PM   #1651
Mike!
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
 
Mike!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 30,782
I wonder what it would have been like had this forum existed, say, 25 years ago, when a certain former pro football playing, rental car repping, movie starring guy, may or may not have had a late night encounter with his estranged wife and her unfortunate timing friend?
__________________
"Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes...
Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."
Mike! is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:42 PM   #1652
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,427
Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I wonder what it would have been like had this forum existed, say, 25 years ago, when a certain former pro football playing, rental car repping, movie starring guy, may or may not have had a late night encounter with his estranged wife and her unfortunate timing friend?
We would have seen many posters repeating a phrase.

If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:46 PM   #1653
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,427
The defense attorney for these brothers might have a phrase for a jury.

If the race doesn't fit, you must acquit.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:48 PM   #1654
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 22,801
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It's also gonna be hard to square that conviction with Smollett's claim to have been attacked by a couple of MAGA country white boys.
Stop me if I'm wrong; but didn't Smollett allege the attackers wore masks and gloves?
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:52 PM   #1655
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,583
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Stop me if I'm wrong; but didn't Smollett allege the attackers wore masks and gloves?
Smollett has alleged a lot of things, not all of which are compatible.

But okay, sure. Let's say these Nigerian brothers are the perps.

Is there any reason to say that a "horrifying" hate crime happened?

Last edited by theprestige; Today at 06:54 PM.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:53 PM   #1656
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either
Posts: 6,364
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The defense attorney for these brothers might have a phrase for a jury.

If the race doesn't fit, you must acquit.
You're gonna get us all in trouble
__________________
"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 06:57 PM   #1657
novaphile
Quester of Doglets
Moderator
 
novaphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,456
I for one, will be utterly amazed, if it turns out that these guys said "This is maga country." Meaning "this is the country of stupid."
__________________
We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato.
novaphile is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 07:03 PM   #1658
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either
Posts: 6,364
Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
I for one, will be utterly amazed, if it turns out that these guys said "This is maga country." Meaning "this is the country of stupid."
Might the word 'country' have been misheard? As in there being a word in Nigerian that makes sense when coupled with maga/sucker?
__________________
"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 07:08 PM   #1659
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 22,801
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Smollett has alleged a lot of things, not all of which are compatible.

But okay, sure. Let's say these Nigerian brothers are the perps.

Is there any reason to say that a "horrifying" hate crime happened?
If the perpetrators knew Smollett, chances are they knew he was gay, which explains why they would use the slur they did. Nigeria is a decisively anti-gay country, with homosexuality punishable by death or over a decade in prison depending on which part of the country you're in; so a crime motivated by homophobic prejudice is quite plausible.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 07:13 PM   #1660
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,583
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
If the perpetrators knew Smollett, chances are they knew he was gay, which explains why they would use the slur they did. Nigeria is a decisively anti-gay country, with homosexuality punishable by death or over a decade in prison depending on which part of the country you're in; so a crime motivated by homophobic prejudice is quite plausible.
This sounds like an ethnic stereotype to me.

By all accounts, Smollett was openly gay, and these guys were his friends and gym buddies. You seem to be working on an entirely counterfactual narrative. Maybe you should wait until you have it all nailed down, before you share it with the rest of us.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 07:17 PM   #1661
Thermal
Philosopher
 
Thermal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: NJ USA. We Don't Like You Either
Posts: 6,364
Do they use witchcraft to be invisible to cameras, too?
__________________
"Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet
Thermal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 07:21 PM   #1662
p0lka
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,148
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This sounds like an ethnic stereotype to me.

By all accounts, Smollett was openly gay, and these guys were his friends and gym buddies. You seem to be working on an entirely counterfactual narrative. Maybe you should wait until you have it all nailed down, before you share it with the rest of us.
If everyone followed that advice this thread wouldn't exist.
p0lka is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 07:27 PM   #1663
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 31,583
Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
If everyone followed that advice this thread wouldn't exist.
You're preaching to to the choir, brother. Tell it to the scolds, if it means so much to you.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 07:29 PM   #1664
Cavemonster
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,141
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
By all accounts, Smollett was openly gay, and these guys were his friends and gym buddies.
Which accounts specifically? So far I've only seen it claimed on the same sort of blog, gossip rag, and Twitter sources which have proven incorrect on a number of points and which the police have repudiated.

Have you seen any more legit media claiming a more legit source for this?
__________________
The weakness of all Utopias is this, ... They first assume that no man will want more than his share, and then are very ingenious in explaining whether his share will be delivered by motorcar or balloon.
-G.K. CHESTERTON
Cavemonster is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 07:42 PM   #1665
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 39,851
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Is it too soon to conclude that hate crimes like this happen every day in America?
Hate crimes occur every day in the US. "Hate crimes like this"? Not so much, because we still don't even know that this was a hate crime. Some actor claims it was a hate crime. That's not enough for me. That's also not enough for me to determine that it's a hoax.

But let's not hand-wave away even if half the reported hate crimes in the US are bogus, there are still hate crimes, on average, daily in the USA.

Unless, of course, you have Alt-dot-facts like our President.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 07:44 PM   #1666
Lambchops
Muse
 
Lambchops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Norvegr
Posts: 956
Originally Posted by baron View Post
I don't object to the profession but I have no more respect for actors than I do for street sweepers, bank clerks and till operators. Why would I?
That's very socialist of you, comrade!
__________________
Proud Dirtbag Leftist.
Lambchops is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 07:53 PM   #1667
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 39,851
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
“If I had said it was a Muslim or a Mexican or someone black, I feel like the doubters would have supported me a lot more,” Smollett said during the TV interview.

Jussie simpering on Good Morning America

MAGA COUNTRY!
If he'd said it was a Mexican he would've been in the front row in the Rose Garden, yesterday.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 08:06 PM   #1668
Skeptic Tank
Trigger Warning
 
Skeptic Tank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,342
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
If the perpetrators knew Smollett, chances are they knew he was gay, which explains why they would use the slur they did. Nigeria is a decisively anti-gay country, with homosexuality punishable by death or over a decade in prison depending on which part of the country you're in; so a crime motivated by homophobic prejudice is quite plausible.
I'd bet quite a lot of money that Smollett has had sexual relations with one if not both of these men.
Skeptic Tank is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 08:07 PM   #1669
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,427
Attorney Michael Monico has announced that he will be representing Jussie Smollett.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RaferWeig...89512568844288
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:24 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.