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Tags donald trump , Elijah Cummings , racism charges , racism issues

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Old 23rd September 2019, 12:08 PM   #401
johnny karate
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Using a phrase that was used by another person isn't the same thing as....never mind.
Steve Sailer coined the phrase "Late Obama Age Collapse".

If anyone else uses that phrase, they are quoting Steve Sailer.

tanabear used that phrase in the OP.

Therefore, tanabear quoted Steve Sailer.

Quote:
The thing is, it doesn't matter if Steve Sailor is a white supremacist. He's not. But that doesn't matter either. All that matters for our purposes is, is he right?
If Steve Sailer isn't a white supremacist, then how does the following argument differ from one that a white supremacist would make?
Originally Posted by Steve Sailer
What you won't hear, except from me, is that "Let the good times roll" is an especially risky message for African-Americans. The plain fact is that they tend to possess poorer native judgment than members of better-educated groups. Thus they need stricter moral guidance from society.
Source.

As far has him being right, you tell me. Is the argument quoted above correct?

And if it doesn't matter whether or not Steve Sailer is a white supremacist, why do you and your fellow travelers insist so fervently that's he's not?

He's clearly arguing that black people are inferior and that their presence in society is a problem. And you and your fellow travelers clearly agree with him.

So why deny it?
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Old 24th September 2019, 11:50 AM   #402
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Steve Sailer coined the phrase "Late Obama Age Collapse".

If anyone else uses that phrase, they are quoting Steve Sailer.

tanabear used that phrase in the OP.

Therefore, tanabear quoted Steve Sailer.
I don't agree with your logic here. But I'm sure that I or somebody else will be able to use this against you in the future so I'm not going to dispute it.

Quote:
If Steve Sailer isn't a white supremacist, then how does the following argument differ from one that a white supremacist would make?


Source.

As far has him being right, you tell me. Is the argument quoted above correct?
No. I don't agree with what he said here. I don't believe that black people 'tend to possess poorer native judgment than members of better-educated groups.' First of all, I don't know what "poorer native judgement" means. I know that impulse control and planning for the future seems to be more difficult for the population of black people as a whole. But that is seen across all educational levels. I also don't agree that "they need stricter moral guidance from society." The moral guidance black people receive from society should be equal to that received by all members of society. The implication that society should allocate more resources to helping black people is insulting to black people and unfair for everyone else.

Quote:
And if it doesn't matter whether or not Steve Sailer is a white supremacist, why do you and your fellow travelers insist so fervently that's he's not?
I haven't read enough of what Steve Sailor has written to say whether or not he is a white supremacist. That label is so loosely applied today as to be meaningless.

Quote:
He's clearly arguing that black people are inferior and that their presence in society is a problem. And you and your fellow travelers clearly agree with him.

So why deny it?
Clearly you're seeing a white supremacist everywhere you see somebody acknowledging differences between groups of people.

There are alot of people who don't consider themselves bigoted who say that systemic institutionalized pervasive and endemic racism and hatred is not the reason for the dearth of Asians playing professional football in the United States. Some of them have actually said that there are physical differences between African-Americans and, say, Laotians, that make African-Americans better football players. These people are clearly saying Asians are inferior. Are all these people black supremacists?
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Old 24th September 2019, 12:46 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
I don't agree with your logic here. But I'm sure that I or somebody else will be able to use this against you in the future so I'm not going to dispute it.
I'm not employing some special form of logic.

I'm pointing out observable reality.

Quote:
No. I don't agree with what he said here. I don't believe that black people 'tend to possess poorer native judgment than members of better-educated groups.' First of all, I don't know what "poorer native judgement" means. I know that impulse control and planning for the future seems to be more difficult for the population of black people as a whole. But that is seen across all educational levels. I also don't agree that "they need stricter moral guidance from society." The moral guidance black people receive from society should be equal to that received by all members of society. The implication that society should allocate more resources to helping black people is insulting to black people and unfair for everyone else.
Would you agree that Steve Sailer's statement is racist?

Quote:
I haven't read enough of what Steve Sailor has written to say whether or not he is a white supremacist. That label is so loosely applied today as to be meaningless.
That doesn't mean white supremacists don't actually exist.

And your choice to remain willfully ignorant doesn't mean that Steve Sailer isn't a white supremacist.

Quote:
Clearly you're seeing a white supremacist everywhere you see somebody acknowledging differences between groups of people.
I've accused exactly one person of being a white supremacist. And that would be the person making the white supremacist argument.

Quote:
There are alot of people who don't consider themselves bigoted who say that systemic institutionalized pervasive and endemic racism and hatred is not the reason for the dearth of Asians playing professional football in the United States. Some of them have actually said that there are physical differences between African-Americans and, say, Laotians, that make African-Americans better football players. These people are clearly saying Asians are inferior. Are all these people black supremacists?
We are talking about a specific thing that a specific person argued, with all necessary context provided.

Your attempt to derail the conversation down an "everybody is racist" rabbit hole does not interest me.
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Old 29th September 2019, 08:51 AM   #404
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Of course, it could also suggest that high-profile, unjustified police shootings cause people to lose confidence in police, and to take matters into their own hands..
The shooting of Michael Brown was thoroughly investigated, even by Obama's DOJ, and they concluded that it was justified based on the circumstances. They even admitted that 'Hands up, Don't Shoot' was a lie. Freddie Gray died in the back of the police van. There was no shooting involved at all. This is an indication of how the media creates false realities and narratives and even after they are shown to be false they are still believed by the Left.

There are many white people who are shot by the police yet there is rarely an outbreak of white rioting causing the crime rate to soar.

Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
This paragraph alone shows that you never lived in a city, let alone one that underwent a renaissance in the early 90s. Things went from "roll up the sidewalks at 5PM" to "holy crap where did all these people come from?!". This was because people were finding cities to be entertaining places to visit but also live.

NYC, always more expensive than other East Coast cities, quickly rose to the level where a person making 6 figures could struggle to make ends meet. This does have the effect lowering crime, but its a rather harsh way to do it.

That is a major reason crime dropped further in NYC. There are other causes, of course, its never as simple as one reason.
People found some cities nice places to live again because the crime rate was falling. This is obviously going to lead to higher property values and more posh people moving in. Our once great cities have been hemorrhaging population since the 1960s due to high crime and other forms of social dysfunction. Mayors Giuliani and Bloomberg brought crime down with their 'stop and frisk' program. As Bloomberg wrote,

"Stop and frisk’ keeps New York safe: New York is the safest big city in the nation, and our crime reductions have been steeper than any other big city’s. For instance, if New York City had the murder rate of Washington, D.C., 761 more New Yorkers would have been killed last year. If our murder rate had mirrored the District’s over the course of my time as mayor, 21,651 more people would have been killed. That’s more than Georgetown University’s student body, faculty and administrative staff.

Based on crime data, we know that more than 90 percent of those 21,651 individuals would have been black and Hispanic. Some of them would have been children
."

Between 2006 and 2012 there were roughly half a million stops per year. This largely drove the criminal element out of NYC.

Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
You started this thread by quoting white supremacist Steve Sailer.

You’ve made more than one argument that bears a striking similarity to arguments that white supremacist Steve Sailer has made.

It’s weird that you keep denying it.

If you believe in the legitimacy of these arguments, why should it matter to you if they happen to promote white supremacy?

Aren’t you proud of the superiority of your race?
The only line that came from Steve Sailer was "Late Obama Age collapse." The arguments are also similar to the ones made by Thomas Sowell, Larry Elder and Candace Owens. Are they "white supremacists" too?

But if quoting from Steve Sailer is such a sin then others are guilty too. Harvard professor Steven Pinker, beloved by the Left, included Steve Sailer's essay, Cousin Marriage Conundrum, in The Best American Science and Nature Writing of 2004 anthology.

Is Steve Pinker a white supremacist?

p.s. Why don't you read the essay. You could learn a lot.

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I don't know what you consider "massive", but from 2011 to 2014, the average number of murders per year in Baltimore was 2014.5 (min 196, max 233). From 2015 to 2018, the average was 328.5 (min 309, max 344) (source). That seems like a significant increase, even if you don't want to use the word "massive". Lead doesn't explain the increase. I don't think race does either, in case that wasn't clear. But there was definitely an increase, and I think an explanation is warranted.
Baltimore has experienced its highest per capita murder rates in the city's history over the past few years. We do know what caused the spike. The riots in April 2015 lead to a huge spike in the murder rate the very next month.

April protests bring May unrest.

"May has become Baltimore's deadliest month in more than four decades with more than 100 shootings and more than 40 homicides. Read coverage from many of those killings and shootings here."

Originally Posted by Darat View Post
It's been sometime since the president raised the issue of crime in Baltimore as a national concern, what actions has he taken to deal with his problem?
It Trump wanted to do anything about Baltimore's high crime rate the Left would want to impeach him for it. The Democratic Left controls the city of Baltimore. Why don't they do anything about it?
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Old 29th September 2019, 12:07 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post

People found some cities nice places to live again because the crime rate was falling. This is obviously going to lead to higher property values and more posh people moving in. Our once great cities have been hemorrhaging population since the 1960s due to high crime and other forms of social dysfunction.
Cities started losing population post-WW2 when the car and suburbs came into being. Crime was a result of that, not a cause.

Cities started recovering population by 1990, despite still-high crime figures because the suburbs had proved boring to too many.

Quote:
Mayors Giuliani and Bloomberg brought crime down with their 'stop and frisk' program. As Bloomberg wrote,

"Stop and frisk’ keeps New York safe: New York is the safest big city in the nation, and our crime reductions have been steeper than any other big city’s. For instance, if New York City had the murder rate of Washington, D.C., 761 more New Yorkers would have been killed last year. If our murder rate had mirrored the District’s over the course of my time as mayor, 21,651 more people would have been killed. That’s more than Georgetown University’s student body, faculty and administrative staff.

Based on crime data, we know that more than 90 percent of those 21,651 individuals would have been black and Hispanic. Some of them would have been children
."

Between 2006 and 2012 there were roughly half a million stops per year. This largely drove the criminal element out of NYC.
Stop & Frisk does not work. By 2006 crime was already on the way down. The program did little more than drive a wedge between police and minorities.

https://www.citylab.com/equity/2016/...t-work/494996/

Chicago tried Stop & Frisk. Found it didn't work, even though they turned it up to 11.

https://www.chicagoreporter.com/chic...it-didnt-work/

Quote:
Chicago has experience with stop-and-frisk. Under Police Supt. Garry McCarthy, we had the most intense stop-and-frisk program in the nation *– using the practice at four times the rate that New York did at the height of its stop-and-frisk program, according to a 2015 ACLU study.
Stop & Frisk is another one of those neo-con simple solutions for complex problems. Its all bluster and acting all tough like a bully, but does nothing in the long run.

And you still obviously know nothing about city life.
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Old 29th September 2019, 01:34 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
The shooting of Michael Brown was thoroughly investigated, even by Obama's DOJ, and they concluded that it was justified based on the circumstances. They even admitted that 'Hands up, Don't Shoot' was a lie. Freddie Gray died in the back of the police van. There was no shooting involved at all. This is an indication of how the media creates false realities and narratives and even after they are shown to be false they are still believed by the Left.

There are many white people who are shot by the police yet there is rarely an outbreak of white rioting causing the crime rate to soar.
Unstated is the fact that the DoJ also found that the Ferguson PD was intentionally targeting black people for unjustified fines, court fees, and so forth, to fill city coffers so that money could be spent on projects like a new police station (but not, interestingly, education). The only rioting here occured because of this, and the wild police overreaction to the neighborhood's grieving, which we all watched on national and international television. And in fact, it was Black Lives Matter, along with local residents, that turned out to protect stores that were being looted, sometimes physically throwing the looters out of stores they had broken into. Apparently the police were all tuckered out from attacking protestors in broad daylight.

Similarly, the only major "race" riot in recent Baltimore history occured on the day of Freddie Gray's funeral, when there were *no* protests. Police forced high schoolers on their way home off of the public transit they needed to get home, kettled them in for hours, and then fired rubber bullets and smoke grenades at them...with the excuse being that the trapped students refused to go home. The not tired and isolated teens responded in kind, and the end result is what we all saw on tv.

But hey, great job highlighting mass police misconduct there, but all you're really doing is highlighting hostile policing as a potentially explosive problem.

(well, no, you're also acting as an apologist for white supremacism, but everyone's figured that one out already.)

Quote:
People found some cities nice places to live again because the crime rate was falling. This is obviously going to lead to higher property values and more posh people moving in. Our once great cities have been hemorrhaging population since the 1960s due to high crime and other forms of social dysfunction. Mayors Giuliani and Bloomberg brought crime down with their 'stop and frisk' program. As Bloomberg wrote,

"[i]Stop and frisk’ keeps New York safe: New York is the safest big city in the nation, and our crime reductions have been steeper than any other big city’s. For instance, if New York City had the murder rate of Washington, D.C., 761 more New Yorkers would have been killed last year. If our murder rate had mirrored the District’s over the course of my time as mayor, 21,651 more people would have been killed. That’s more than Georgetown University’s student body, faculty and administrative staff.
Sadly for you, NYC crime rates had already begun to fall under mayor Dinkens, when Guiliani was helping to start a racist police riot to launch his mayoral campaign (you know, the exact type that you insist doesn't happen - and for far less than a murder). And it continued to fall when Bi Blasio backed off of the racist program, proving predictions of an amazing return to 1994-level crime false.

ETA: And of course, Bloomberg famously responded to reports that black and Hispanic people were less likely to be found with weapons on them than white people were under his version of "Stop and Frisk" by stating that police should harrass and beat (which is what we're discussing here) black and Hispanic people even more than before. So, that's basically you citing another white supremacist.

(oddly enough, NYC had one of the more aggressive lead abatement programs under democratic mayors. Coincidence? Well, nothing is ever *proven* in the sciences, but there's an interesting correlation here.)

Quote:
The only line that came from Steve Sailer was "Late Obama Age collapse." The arguments are also similar to the ones made by Thomas Sowell, Larry Elder and Candace Owens. Are they "white supremacists" too?
Yes.

Larry Elder and Candace Owens are grifters, too. Sam Seder has repeatedly stated that Elder's entire public persona is just a front, and Owens hated Dolt 45 right up to the point where she got paid off by Turning Points, at which point she stole the name "Blexit" from a charity to continue her grift.

Quote:
But if quoting from Steve Sailer is such a sin then others are guilty too. Harvard professor Steven Pinker, beloved by the Left, included Steve Sailer's essay, Cousin Marriage Conundrum, in The Best American Science and Nature Writing of 2004 anthology.

Is Steve Pinker a white supremacist?
Yes.

Quote:
Baltimore has experienced its highest per capita murder rates in the city's history over the past few years. We do know what caused the spike. The riots in April 2015 lead to a huge spike in the murder rate the very next month.
Actually, we know it wasn't *just* the riot that police set off. There was also the brazen corruption of police groups like the Gun Trace Task Force, along with a series of high-profile drug plantings that police caught on their own body cameras, which led to a general lack of recruitment - and a deemphasis on detective work and witness protection, which led to people being either unwilling or unable to cooperate with police, and a lack of support for prosecutions of violent criminals at the state level.

Quote:
It Trump wanted to do anything about Baltimore's high crime rate the Left would want to impeach him for it. The Democratic Left controls the city of Baltimore. Why don't they do anything about it?
If Cheeto Benito tried to do anything about violent crime anywhere, it would probably involve putting nonwhite immigrants in concentration camps (oh, wait, he already did that), harassing nonviolent drug offenders (oops - he did this, too), and pushing for random state-backed violence towards black people (wait - that was one of his campaign proposals). And yes, these would be worthy of impeachment - or rather, they already are.

Last edited by Mumbles; 29th September 2019 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 29th September 2019, 02:22 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
The only line that came from Steve Sailer was "Late Obama Age collapse." The arguments are also similar to the ones made by Thomas Sowell, Larry Elder and Candace Owens. Are they "white supremacists" too?
Why would I think that? Just because you might have referred to their work?

I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you do some reading outside of what white supremacists have written on anti-Semitic websites.

Quote:
But if quoting from Steve Sailer is such a sin then others are guilty too. Harvard professor Steven Pinker, beloved by the Left, included Steve Sailer's essay, Cousin Marriage Conundrum, in The Best American Science and Nature Writing of 2004 anthology.

Is Steve Pinker a white supremacist?
I don’t know. Is he? You seem to be more familiar with the work of white supremacists than I am.

Regardless, I’ve not argued that quoting a white supremacist automatically makes you a white supremacist, so I’m not sure what you think your point is.
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Old 17th October 2019, 04:59 AM   #408
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Old 25th October 2019, 08:24 AM   #409
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Lemme help you out a little.

Here's a basic discussion.

THis medium.com article (yes, I know) includes a map of lead paint violations and oh would you look at that, they're almost entirely in black neighborhoods in the city.

And of course, since there hasn't actually been any massive surge in murders or violent crime, any actual need to explain is rather questionable.
If anyone is interested, I'd highly recommend this podcast and the references contained within. There is an interview with a woman in the Bronx struggling with lead paint and her children that almost made me cry.

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts...dutch-boy-lead
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Old 23rd November 2019, 12:35 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Cities started losing population post-WW2 when the car and suburbs came into being. Crime was a result of that, not a cause.

Cities started recovering population by 1990, despite still-high crime figures because the suburbs had proved boring to too many.
Huh? Crime was a result of people leaving cities??? The crime rate came down for the first 20 years after WWII. The crime rate started surging around 1964.

By saying that the suburbs are too boring you are just saying that white people are too boring. This is the standard Leftist spiel about how "diversity" makes us more "vibrant." But your argument is wrong anyway. These Democratic Leftist cities have been losing population since the 1990s.

St Louis - Pop
1990 396,685
2000 348,189
2010 319,294

Baltimore - Pop
1990 736,014
2000 648,654
2010 620,961

Chicago - Pop
1990 2,783,911
2000 2,896,016
2010 2,695,598

Why have this once great American cities lost population when the total population of our country has been soaring? Because Leftists rule has turned these places into garbage dumps.

Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Unstated is the fact that the DoJ also found that the Ferguson PD was intentionally targeting black people for unjustified fines, court fees, and so forth, to fill city coffers so that money could be spent on projects like a new police station (but not, interestingly, education). The only rioting here occured because of this, and the wild police overreaction to the neighborhood's grieving, which we all watched on national and international television. And in fact, it was Black Lives Matter, along with local residents, that turned out to protect stores that were being looted, sometimes physically throwing the looters out of stores they had broken into. Apparently the police were all tuckered out from attacking protestors in broad daylight.
Black people are pulled over more because they commit more crimes and break the law more frequently. It is like asking why are men stopped and pulled over more than women? Because men break the law more.

But regarding the Ferguson study, it showed that while blacks make up 67% of the city's population they account for 85% of all traffic stops. That is an 18-point gap. In New York City, blacks are 25% of the population, but account for 55% of those stopped for traffic offenses -- a 30-point gap. The Ferguson police are about 80% white while the NYC police are only 54% white. So you would have to believe that institutional racism is more entrenched in the more minority dominated NYPD than in Ferguson.

Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
If anyone is interested, I'd highly recommend this podcast and the references contained within. There is an interview with a woman in the Bronx struggling with lead paint and her children that almost made me cry.

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts...dutch-boy-lead
But the murder rate increasing 57% in one in year(2016) in Chicago doesn't make you cry. Lead paint is a tragedy, the murder rate is a statistic.
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Old 23rd November 2019, 03:52 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
But regarding the Ferguson study, it showed that while blacks make up 67% of the city's population they account for 85% of all traffic stops. That is an 18-point gap. In New York City, blacks are 25% of the population, but account for 55% of those stopped for traffic offenses -- a 30-point gap. The Ferguson police are about 80% white while the NYC police are only 54% white. So you would have to believe that institutional racism is more entrenched in the more minority dominated NYPD than in Ferguson.
Yeah, and?

The rest of this is you just continuing to say your usual racist nonsense, I won't bother.
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Old 24th November 2019, 02:43 AM   #412
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The rest of your post is filled with the usual racist bollocks we have come to expect from you, but the following points are worth addressing, if only to shoot them down.

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
But regarding the Ferguson study, it showed that while blacks make up 67% of the city's population they account for 85% of all traffic stops.
Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
In New York City, blacks are 25% of the population, but account for 55% of those stopped for traffic offenses
Clearly, you have never heard of racial profiling

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
The Ferguson police are about 80% white while the NYC police are only 54% white. So you would have to believe that institutional racism is more entrenched in the more minority dominated NYPD than in Ferguson.
Yup

https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebat...-police-forces

https://www.theatlantic.com/national...e-nypd/384106/

https://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/866197...police-officer

https://nypost.com/2018/07/25/93-per...nypd-watchdog/
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Old 24th November 2019, 04:43 AM   #413
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Re: the lead hypothesis, I looked into it pretty deeply a while back, because at first glance it does seem to be a sort of holy grail for explaining and preventing urban violence.

The problem is that rich white kids growing up in great neighborhoods in the 60-80's were more lead poisoned than the most lead poisoned urban kids today. I think the lead itself is a confounding factor, or a marker for social ills.
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Old 24th November 2019, 07:02 AM   #414
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Old 24th November 2019, 11:51 AM   #415
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Huh? Crime was a result of people leaving cities??? The crime rate came down for the first 20 years after WWII. The crime rate started surging around 1964.
Again, your simple Republican solutionsTM don't grasp that things don't happen instantly. It took time for the effects of suburbanization to kick in. Its not like the boys came home from Europe to suburban communities already built and ready for them (with a few exceptions). Also, it can take time for budget issues to really show their weaknesses.

Quote:
By saying that the suburbs are too boring you are just saying that white people are too boring.
No, I am saying the suburbs are boring. If I was saying white people are boring I would also say that towns and rural communities were boring. But those things have community, culture, and history that suburbs often lack.
There's a reason that "Mall culture" became a thing, and that's that suburbs often lack the community of cities or towns, and the resources of cities.

If you want to claim what you said above, well you are the one who put that shoe one, declared it a perfect fit, and then said it hurts.

Quote:
This is the standard Leftist spiel about how "diversity" makes us more "vibrant." But your argument is wrong anyway. These Democratic Leftist cities have been losing population since the 1990s.
Cherry picking *again*. Why don't you look at the populations of Settle, San Francisco , Portland, or Philadelphia, or Boston? Are they somehow 'not leftist'?!

Quote:
St Louis - Pop
1990 396,685
2000 348,189
2010 319,294

Baltimore - Pop
1990 736,014
2000 648,654
2010 620,961

Chicago - Pop
1990 2,783,911
2000 2,896,016
2010 2,695,598

Why have this once great American cities lost population when the total population of our country has been soaring?
Because not every city has been able to experience the urban rennaissance that the 90's brought. Often there are good reasons for a continuing decline. Baltimore, for example, has lost its shipbuilding and other industries to overseas competition.

Quote:
Because Leftists rule has turned these places into garbage dumps.
I know simplistic GOP minds want simple answers to complex problems, but this simply is not true no matter how many times you repeat it, or try to sneak in a cowardly cheap shot answer in a month after your slunk away from the thread.

Also, to call these cities 'garbage dumps' is incredibly insulting. Typical of a Trump follower who only knows simple answer and insults everything they cannot understand, I know, but maybe you could restrain yourself instead of showing what dirt-bag opinions you have.
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Old 24th November 2019, 12:27 PM   #416
carlitos
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Nazis paste black crime stats and anti immigrant nonsense at other forums. It’s part of their plan.
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