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Tags donald trump , Mueller investigation , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , William Barr

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Old 26th October 2019, 12:40 PM   #81
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Have you ever read the dossier? How about this bit of conspiracy theorizing.

"...the Russian authorities had been cultivating and supporting US Republican presidential candidate, Donald TRUMP for at least 5 years..."

So Trump had been conspiring with Putin and Russian intelligence for 5 years so at least since 2011.

"In terms of specifics, Source A confided that the Kremlin had been feeding TRUMP and his team valuable intelligence on his opponents, including Democratic presidential candidate Hillary CLINTON, for several years..."

So the Kremlin was plotting with Trump, a reality show star and real estate developer, to run for President in 2016 to thwart the ambitions of Hillary Clinton and this all started in 2011.

"This was confirmed by Source D, a close associate of TRUMP who had organized and managed his recent trips to Moscow."

So Source D is a close confidant of Trump and managed his recent trips to Moscow. This was written in 2016. Trump is a very public person and launched his campaign for President in June of 2015. His only known trip to Moscow during this time was the Miss America Pageant in 2013. Now if Trump was really making trips to Moscow this would have been very easy for the FBI to confirm. Trump even flies around in a big plane with TRUMP written on the side of it. So why haven't we heard about these trips to Moscow? Because this is just made-up BS.

"Speaking in confidence to a compatriot in late July 2016, Source E, an ethnic Russian close associate of Republican US presidential candidate Donald TRUMP, admitted that there was a well-developed conspiracy of co-operation between them and the Russian leadership. This was managed on the TRUMP side...Paul MANAFORT...Mechanism for transmitting this intelligence involves "pension" disbursements to Russian emigres living in US as cover, using consular officials in New York, DC and Miami."

Trump, Manafort and Page, long before the campaign, are secretly running a "two-way flow of intelligence and other useful information" between the Kremlin and Russian emigres living in America. This is being coordinated out of consular offices. But a few minutes searching on the Internet will verify that there was no Russian consulate in Miami.

The source for this conspiracy theory appears to be Sergey Millian. He has been described as a "big talker" and he was likely feeding nonsense to Steele and Simpson. The FBI should have attempted to confirm such idiocy before they sought the FISA warrant on Page.

Maybe you can fill me in on the important and verified portions of the Steele Dossier.




So what was the origin of the Trump-Russia collusion investigation?



You had stated, "the Russian Attacks and the Trump Campaign were never used to attack Trump during the elections..."

The statement by Harry Reid and articles by Michael Isikoff, New York Magazine, and Mother Jones were before the election. David Corn's article was entitled: "A Veteran Spy Has Given the FBI Information Alleging a Russian Operation to Cultivate Donald Trump." It was published on October 31st, 2016. To say that there weren't stories in the press regarding Trump-Russia collusion before the election is false.



This explosive information about Trump they were sitting on was apparently the Steele Dossier which was paid for political opposition research, not verified intelligence. Information from the dossier was reported in Michael Isikoff's Yahoo article.

You write: "They sat on it and kept it hidden..."

So leaking information from the dossier to the press and using it to obtain a FISA warrant on an American citizen(Carter Page) is sitting on it and keeping it hidden?

p.s. The coup attempt occurred after Trump was elected President.
I'm really not sure what your point is. Do you even know what the Steele dossier is/was? It's referred to as raw intelligence. Which is mostly information that has not been vetted at all. Usually bull **** with a few actual facts sprinkled in. In this case a great amount of it has been proved to be true.

There was no attempted coup. Talk about absurd hyperbole. An investigation or inquiry is not a coup.

There was no
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Old 26th October 2019, 02:53 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Let me guess: you don't believe Russia interfered in the 2016 election by trying to influence voters with bots or is actively engaging in the same tactics today?
That guess is incorrect.
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Old 26th October 2019, 03:07 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Have you ever read the dossier? How about this bit of conspiracy theorizing.

"...the Russian authorities had been cultivating and supporting US Republican presidential candidate, Donald TRUMP for at least 5 years..."

So Trump had been conspiring with Putin and Russian intelligence for 5 years so at least since 2011.

"In terms of specifics, Source A confided that the Kremlin had been feeding TRUMP and his team valuable intelligence on his opponents, including Democratic presidential candidate Hillary CLINTON, for several years..."

So the Kremlin was plotting with Trump, a reality show star and real estate developer, to run for President in 2016 to thwart the ambitions of Hillary Clinton and this all started in 2011.

"This was confirmed by Source D, a close associate of TRUMP who had organized and managed his recent trips to Moscow."

So Source D is a close confidant of Trump and managed his recent trips to Moscow. This was written in 2016. Trump is a very public person and launched his campaign for President in June of 2015. His only known trip to Moscow during this time was the Miss America Pageant in 2013. Now if Trump was really making trips to Moscow this would have been very easy for the FBI to confirm. Trump even flies around in a big plane with TRUMP written on the side of it. So why haven't we heard about these trips to Moscow? Because this is just made-up BS.

"Speaking in confidence to a compatriot in late July 2016, Source E, an ethnic Russian close associate of Republican US presidential candidate Donald TRUMP, admitted that there was a well-developed conspiracy of co-operation between them and the Russian leadership. This was managed on the TRUMP side...Paul MANAFORT...Mechanism for transmitting this intelligence involves "pension" disbursements to Russian emigres living in US as cover, using consular officials in New York, DC and Miami."

Trump, Manafort and Page, long before the campaign, are secretly running a "two-way flow of intelligence and other useful information" between the Kremlin and Russian emigres living in America. This is being coordinated out of consular offices. But a few minutes searching on the Internet will verify that there was no Russian consulate in Miami.

The source for this conspiracy theory appears to be Sergey Millian. He has been described as a "big talker" and he was likely feeding nonsense to Steele and Simpson. The FBI should have attempted to confirm such idiocy before they sought the FISA warrant on Page.

Maybe you can fill me in on the important and verified portions of the Steele Dossier.




So what was the origin of the Trump-Russia collusion investigation?



You had stated, "the Russian Attacks and the Trump Campaign were never used to attack Trump during the elections..."

The statement by Harry Reid and articles by Michael Isikoff, New York Magazine, and Mother Jones were before the election. David Corn's article was entitled: "A Veteran Spy Has Given the FBI Information Alleging a Russian Operation to Cultivate Donald Trump." It was published on October 31st, 2016. To say that there weren't stories in the press regarding Trump-Russia collusion before the election is false.



This explosive information about Trump they were sitting on was apparently the Steele Dossier which was paid for political opposition research, not verified intelligence. Information from the dossier was reported in Michael Isikoff's Yahoo article.

You write: "They sat on it and kept it hidden..."

So leaking information from the dossier to the press and using it to obtain a FISA warrant on an American citizen(Carter Page) is sitting on it and keeping it hidden?

p.s. The coup attempt occurred after Trump was elected President.
Cultivating and supporting a pol can be done essentially without the knowledge, and certainly without the connivance of said pol. The kingmakers see a useful stooge, and in the background arrange to push their tool onto the stage of history.

The candidate can then end up obliviously thinking he did it all by himself, or with the legitimate aid of a campaign staff.
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Old 26th October 2019, 03:12 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
That guess is incorrect.
Then why these posts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogative
Is that you, Hillary?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogative
Thanks, Maddow.
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Old 26th October 2019, 03:49 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Then why these posts?
It was a response to you saying "I see the Russians are busy again" after I posted a link to the New York Times reporting that the Barr/Durham inquiry was now a criminal investigation.

It sounds like something Hillary or Rachel Maddow has blurted out about Russia collision for the last three years, unless you have some kind of evidence that the Russians are behind the latest information relating to the investigation of how the Mueller investigation started.

Last edited by Bogative; 26th October 2019 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 26th October 2019, 10:29 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
So what was the origin of the Trump-Russia collusion investigation?
I'll give you a clue, it starts with an "A" and ends in an "A" and many consider it it the largest island on the planet.

Quote:
You had stated, "the Russian Attacks and the Trump Campaign were never used to attack Trump during the elections..."
Actually I stated that the so called "Deep State" never used them as attacks.

Quote:
The statement by Harry Reid and articles by Michael Isikoff, New York Magazine, and Mother Jones were before the election. David Corn's article was entitled: "A Veteran Spy Has Given the FBI Information Alleging a Russian Operation to Cultivate Donald Trump." It was published on October 31st, 2016. To say that there weren't stories in the press regarding Trump-Russia collusion before the election is false.
I never said that there weren't stories in the press, I said that the supposed Deep State never used the information to attack Trump prior to the election. Media reports about Harry Reid's letter are not the people within the FBI releasing information, in fact time and again your links show the same thing, the FBI refused to comment about it. Not exactly the actions of people trying to destroy his chances of winning, in fact they did the opposite and came out and damaged Clinton by dropping a bombshell on her literally weeks prior to the Election

Quote:
You write: "They sat on it and kept it hidden..."
They did

Quote:
So leaking information from the dossier to the press and using it to obtain a FISA warrant on an American citizen(Carter Page) is sitting on it and keeping it hidden?
It was not the FBI that leaked the dossier, and since the FISA Warrant was not public, then yes it was kept hidden.

Quote:
p.s. The coup attempt occurred after Trump was elected President.
You need to stop parroting Trump, there was no coup, not even close. A Coup is a sudden, often violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government. Even if Trump was impeached and removed, a legitimate and Constitutional action, then Pence would become President, and even if he had been impeached at the same time, then at the time of the investigation's start, then Paul Ryan would have become President.

Regardless if how you want to mix it, there still would have been a Republican President, and both the House and Senate would have remained intact and also both Republican controlled. There was no violent, illegal seizure of power from the Government, no attempting to overturning of the Government and so there was no coup, not any attempted coup. What there is, is a bunch of lies by a Con-Artist who wants his cultist followers to believe he alone is the Government and the Country, and you are believing him hook, line, and sinker.
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Old 26th October 2019, 11:11 PM   #87
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It is the irony (well, one of the ironies) of the 2016 election that both the Clinton and the Trump campaign assumed that the FBI was working actively against them.
If either campaign had been much more open and cooperative, they could have both saved themselves a lot of grief.
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Old 26th October 2019, 11:13 PM   #88
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Trumpers are clinging to the nonsense the investigation of Trump was some deep-state plot. I suppose if you believe Trump's gaslighting, a ginned up investigation is all part of the same fantasy.
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Old 27th October 2019, 12:16 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'm really not sure what your point is. Do you even know what the Steele dossier is/was? It's referred to as raw intelligence. Which is mostly information that has not been vetted at all. Usually bull **** with a few actual facts sprinkled in. In this case a great amount of it has been proved to be true.

There was no attempted coup. Talk about absurd hyperbole. An investigation or inquiry is not a coup.

There was no
The entire "this is a coup" claim is ridiculous. I mean, how is it supposed to work in any way at all? There is no way that the impeachment will allow Democrats to take over the government unless Republicans vote to remove Trump. It's not even hyperbole, it's just idiotic.
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Old 27th October 2019, 12:18 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Trumpers are clinging to the nonsense the investigation of Trump was some deep-state plot. I suppose if you believe Trump's gaslighting, a ginned up investigation is all part of the same fantasy.

They are doing much more than clinging to it. They are building up to a full on attack that is going to cause a lot of heartache before it is over. Trump has got the courts stacked, has powerful media entities behind him and a compliant senate. Trump doesn't know the meaning of ethics or honour, just the low blow and the knife in the back. The fundamentalist xians are 100% behind him and think that this is a war with satan they are fighting. Barr being a prime example.
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Old 27th October 2019, 12:22 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
The entire "this is a coup" claim is ridiculous. I mean, how is it supposed to work in any way at all? There is no way that the impeachment will allow Democrats to take over the government unless Republicans vote to remove Trump. It's not even hyperbole, it's just idiotic.

You might think it is ridiculous but they have been claiming this for two years now and every event that has occured since then has only confirmed it in their minds.
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Old 27th October 2019, 12:28 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
You might think it is ridiculous but they have been claiming this for two years now and event that has occured since then has only confirmed it in their minds.
Yes, Republicans will believe the dumbest nonsense conspiracy theories for reasons.
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Old 27th October 2019, 03:15 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
The entire "this is a coup" claim is ridiculous. I mean, how is it supposed to work in any way at all? There is no way that the impeachment will allow Democrats to take over the government unless Republicans vote to remove Trump. It's not even hyperbole, it's just idiotic.
Even if the Republicans did vote to remove Trump it wouldn't allow the Democrats to take over the Government. VP Pence would become President and a new VP would be nominated by Pence and confirmed by a Republican Senate. And even so, the Government itself would remain as is, with the Democrats controlling the House and the Republicans controlling the Senate.

The only thing that removing Trump would do is remove Trump. That's it, and that is not a coup in any way shape or form.
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Old 27th October 2019, 03:29 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Even if the Republicans did vote to remove Trump it wouldn't allow the Democrats to take over the Government. VP Pence would become President and a new VP would be nominated by Pence and confirmed by a Republican Senate. And even so, the Government itself would remain as is, with the Democrats controlling the House and the Republicans controlling the Senate.

The only thing that removing Trump would do is remove Trump. That's it, and that is not a coup in any way shape or form.
Agreed.
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Old 27th October 2019, 05:36 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
The only thing that removing Trump would do is remove Trump. That's it, and that is not a coup in any way shape or form.

Haven't you been paying attention? Trump IS America. L'etat, c'est moi. Removing Trump is a blatant attack on America.
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Old 27th October 2019, 05:57 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Have you ever read the dossier? How about this bit of conspiracy theorizing.

"...the Russian authorities had been cultivating and supporting US Republican presidential candidate, Donald TRUMP for at least 5 years..."

So Trump had been conspiring with Putin and Russian intelligence for 5 years so at least since 2011.
Being supported by and conspiring with are two different things.
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Old 27th October 2019, 06:40 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Even if the Republicans did vote to remove Trump it wouldn't allow the Democrats to take over the Government. VP Pence would become President and a new VP would be nominated by Pence and confirmed by a Republican Senate. And even so, the Government itself would remain as is, with the Democrats controlling the House and the Republicans controlling the Senate.
....
Note that a new VP would need to be confirmed by both the Senate and the House. That would serve as a moderating influence. The nominee would still be a Republican, but less likely to be a Trumpist. Or it might mean that without agreement, the VP slot would remain vacant until the next election, and the Speaker of the House -- Nancy Pelosi at present -- would be next in line.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...nt-chosen.html

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Old 27th October 2019, 09:46 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Being supported by and conspiring with are two different things.
In this context, having one's views manipulated by Russia is likely included with the term cultivation.

Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Note that a new VP would need to be confirmed by both the Senate and the House. That would serve as a moderating influence. The nominee would still be a Republican, but less likely to be a Trumpist. Or it might mean that without agreement, the VP slot would remain vacant until the next election, and the Speaker of the House -- Nancy Pelosi at present -- would be next in line.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...nt-chosen.html
Which still means that during the first two years, the Republicans who controlled Senate and House would have had complete control when it comes to that and Ryan would have been the next in line, had they actually done their friggin' job. Man, such a power grab by the Democrats!
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Old 27th October 2019, 12:23 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
They are doing much more than clinging to it. They are building up to a full on attack that is going to cause a lot of heartache before it is over. Trump has got the courts stacked, has powerful media entities behind him and a compliant senate. Trump doesn't know the meaning of ethics or honour, just the low blow and the knife in the back. The fundamentalist xians are 100% behind him and think that this is a war with satan they are fighting. Barr being a prime example.
At this point in time I think Barr is placating Trump. Other than subpoenas to make certain people look guilty, I don't see the courts dealing with this.

It's like asking Zelenski to publicly announce an investigation into Biden. It's like Darryl Issa's and Trey Gowdey's 11 Benghazi hearings. There is no there there and there doesn't need to be. "But her emails." But her emails what? It doesn't matter, just convince people by innuendo.

Are they going to find a DNC server in the Ukraine? Apparently there is no server even if the bizarre CT about it being in Ukraine had substance. The Steele dossier is not what started the investigation. There is overwhelming evidence right there in the Mueller report that Barr's investigation is a farce.

So I don't see anyone getting framed here. This will go on long enough for Trump to use the innuendo. That's all this is about.
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Old 27th October 2019, 12:28 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Even if the Republicans did vote to remove Trump it wouldn't allow the Democrats to take over the Government. VP Pence would become President and a new VP would be nominated by Pence and confirmed by a Republican Senate. And even so, the Government itself would remain as is, with the Democrats controlling the House and the Republicans controlling the Senate.

The only thing that removing Trump would do is remove Trump. That's it, and that is not a coup in any way shape or form.
One, that is enough. Trump is dangerous.

Two, hopefully it would prevent his reelection, though there is a small risk a backlash will drive people to the polls to vote for him.

No way is Pence electable.
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Old 27th October 2019, 02:29 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
No way is Pence electable.
I'm more worried that the Republicans will figure out that someone like Nikki Halley might actually be a winning strategy for them.
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Old 27th October 2019, 05:42 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
At this point in time I think Barr is placating Trump. Other than subpoenas to make certain people look guilty, I don't see the courts dealing with this.

It's like asking Zelenski to publicly announce an investigation into Biden. It's like Darryl Issa's and Trey Gowdey's 11 Benghazi hearings. There is no there there and there doesn't need to be. "But her emails." But her emails what? It doesn't matter, just convince people by innuendo.

Are they going to find a DNC server in the Ukraine? Apparently there is no server even if the bizarre CT about it being in Ukraine had substance. The Steele dossier is not what started the investigation. There is overwhelming evidence right there in the Mueller report that Barr's investigation is a farce.

So I don't see anyone getting framed here. This will go on long enough for Trump to use the innuendo. That's all this is about.

Benghazi was all about keeping the "hate on Hillary" campaign slowly burning away, and it worked, she lost the campaign to be president. They didn't believe it was true any more than we did.



Trump is different. He is unhinged and backed by equally unhinged holy warriors. They really do believe all this and now the courts are stacked in their favour.
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Old 27th October 2019, 05:53 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
It was a response to you saying "I see the Russians are busy again" after I posted a link to the New York Times reporting that the Barr/Durham inquiry was now a criminal investigation.

It sounds like something Hillary or Rachel Maddow has blurted out about Russia collision for the last three years, unless you have some kind of evidence that the Russians are behind the latest information relating to the investigation of how the Mueller investigation started.
Um, no. I was actually referring to Tanabear's post which was 2 up from my post separated only by PhantomWolf's post responding to Tanabear's post. It had nothing to do with you.
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Old 27th October 2019, 06:04 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Benghazi was all about keeping the "hate on Hillary" campaign slowly burning away, and it worked, she lost the campaign to be president. They didn't believe it was true any more than we did.

Trump is different. He is unhinged and backed by equally unhinged holy warriors. They really do believe all this and now the courts are stacked in their favour.
There were many reasons Clinton lost. Benghazi was probably on the bottom of the list.

Trump may very well believe his CT. Barr, I'm not so sure. But the bottom line, they can't produce anything close to reliable evidence.
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Old 27th October 2019, 06:26 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
There were many reasons Clinton lost. Benghazi was probably on the bottom of the list.

Trump may very well believe his CT. Barr, I'm not so sure. But the bottom line, they can't produce anything close to reliable evidence.
I don't think there is any way to know how much the different aspects of the GOP smear job had to do with her loss. But if you look, Hillary's favorable/unfavourable ratings dropped dramatically between 2014 and January 2016 before even the first primary. Between Ben Ghazzi and the innuendo associated with her emails, the GOP did a number on her.

Now I blame her for fumbling how to handle these attacks, but I have no doubt they had a negative effect.
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Old 27th October 2019, 06:29 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'm really not sure what your point is. Do you even know what the Steele dossier is/was? It's referred to as raw intelligence. Which is mostly information that has not been vetted at all. Usually bull **** with a few actual facts sprinkled in. In this case a great amount of it has been proved to be true. There was no attempted coup. Talk about absurd hyperbole. An investigation or inquiry is not a coup.
There was no
Yes, the Steele dossier was raw bits of supposed intelligence. This was admitted by Christopher Steele himself. But the Obama Justice Department and FBI sought a FISA warrant to monitor Carter Page in October of 2016. They signed off on the allegations in dossier as VERIFIED APPLICATION. However, James Comey testified to Congress in 2017 that the Dossier was salacious and unverified. So why didn't the FBI go through the basic spade work of attempting to verify those allegations before signing off on a FISA warrant? Because they were looking for any pre-text they could to spy on the Trump administration. By signing VERIFIED APPLICATION in October of 2016 they committed fraud and should be held accountable.

And yes, some of the information has been verified. Moscow is a city in Russia.

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I'll give you a clue, it starts with an "A" and ends in an "A" and many consider it it the largest island on the planet.
Alexander Downer comes from Australia, as everyone knows, and Australia is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them...

The reference here is to Alexander Downer and George Papadopoulos's meeting at the Kensington Wine bar in May of 2016. This is where PapaD supposedly told Downer that the Russians have materials that could be damaging to Clinton, but didn't say what it was. Papadopoulos denied saying anything about this however. The official narrative is that Papadopoulos knew this because of his meeting with Joseph Mifsud on April 26th. He is portrayed as being a Russian agent. If Papadopoulos had never met any Russians or Russian agents then how can one open a collusion investigation between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin? James Comey wrote this in his Washington Post op-ed:

"In April 2016, that adviser talked to a Russian agent in London, learned that the Russians had obtained “dirt” on Hillary Clinton in the form of thousands of emails and that the Russians could assist the Trump campaign through the anonymous release of information damaging to Clinton."

That advisor is George Papadopoulos and the supposed Russian agent is Joseph Mifsud. If Mifsud is not a Russian agent then this entire Trump-Russia collusion investigation was a scam from the get-go. This is currently what Barr and John Durham are trying to discover.

So do you believe Joseph Mifsud is a Russian agent or not?

Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Being supported by and conspiring with are two different things.
The Steele Dossier makes reference to a two way flow of information between Trump and the Kremlin.

"In terms of the intelligence flow from the TRUMP team to Russia, Source E reported that much of this concerned the activities of business oligarchs and their families' activities and assets in the US, with which PUTIN and the Kremlin seemed preoccupied."

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Trumpers are clinging to the nonsense the investigation of Trump was some deep-state plot. I suppose if you believe Trump's gaslighting, a ginned up investigation is all part of the same fantasy.
So do you believe that Joseph Mifsud is a Russian agent? Why are the people on these boards so reluctant to answer this basic question? James Comey affirmed it. But if this is un-resolved don't you support John Durham's inquiry to discover the Truth?
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Old 27th October 2019, 06:33 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't think there is any way to know how much the different aspects of the GOP smear job had to do with her loss. But if you look, Hillary's favorable/unfavourable ratings dropped dramatically between 2014 and January 2016 before even the first primary. Between Ben Ghazzi and the innuendo associated with her emails, the GOP did a number on her.

Now I blame her for fumbling how to handle these attacks, but I have no doubt they had a negative effect.
Agreed.
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Old 27th October 2019, 06:35 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't think there is any way to know how much the different aspects of the GOP smear job had to do with her loss. But if you look, Hillary's favorable/unfavourable ratings dropped dramatically between 2014 and January 2016 before even the first primary. Between Ben Ghazzi and the innuendo associated with her emails, the GOP did a number on her.

Now I blame her for fumbling how to handle these attacks, but I have no doubt they had a negative effect.
I have rebuttals to some of this but it belongs in another thread. I too blame her ultimately for her fumbling.
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Old 27th October 2019, 07:14 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Yes, the Steele dossier was raw bits of supposed intelligence. This was admitted by Christopher Steel himself. But the Obama Justice Department and FBI sought a FISA warrant to monitor Carter Page in October of 2016. They signed off on the allegations in dossier as VERIFIED APPLICATION. However, James Comey testified to Congress in 2017 that the Dossier was salacious and unverified. So why didn't the FBI go through the basic spade work of attempting to verify those allegations before signing off on a FISA warrant? Because they were looking for any pre-text they could to spy on the Trump administration. By signing VERIFIED APPLICATION in October of 2016 they committed fraud and should be held accountable.

And yes, some of the information has been verified. Moscow is a city in Russia.



Alexander Downer comes from Australia, as everyone knows, and Australia is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them...

The reference here is to Alexander Downer and George Papadopoulos's meeting at the Kensington Wine bar in May of 2016. This is where PapaD supposedly told Downer that Russian have materials that could be damaging to Clinton, but didn't say what it was. Papadopoulos denied saying anything about this however. The official narrative is that Papadopoulos knew this because of his meeting with Joseph Mifsud on April 26th. He is portrayed as being a Russian agent. If Papadopoulos had never met any Russians or Russian agents then how can one open a collusion investigation between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin? James Comey wrote this in his Washington Post op-ed:

"In April 2016, that adviser talked to a Russian agent in London, learned that the Russians had obtained “dirt” on Hillary Clinton in the form of thousands of emails and that the Russians could assist the Trump campaign through the anonymous release of information damaging to Clinton."

That advisor is George Papadopoulos and the supposed Russian agent is Joseph Mifsud. If Mifsud is not a Russian agent then this entire Trump-Russia collusion investigation was a scam from the get-go. This is currently what Barr and John Durham are trying to discover.

So do you believe Joseph Mifsud is a Russian agent or not?



The Steele Dossier makes reference to a two way flow of information between Trump and the Kremlin.

"In terms of the intelligence flow from the TRUMP team to Russia, Source E reported that much of this concerned the activities of business oligarchs and their families' activities and assets in the US, with which PUTIN and the Kremlin seemed preoccupied."



So do you believe that Joseph Mifsud is a Russian agent? Why are the people on these boards so reluctant to answer this basic question? James Comey affirmed it. But if this is un-resolved don't you support John Durham's inquiry to discover the Truth?
I still don't understand your point. Do you know why they requested a FISA warrant and why the judge granted it? You're desperately trying to construct some nefarious dark world conspiracy despite the absence of any evidence. This is like Hillary's emails. You and all the rest of the gullible GOP base built a crazy scenario about how corrupt Hillary based on the absence of any incriminating evidence. In contrast, you dismiss a massive mountain of evidence against Trump.

The hypocrisy of the Republican party has reached massive proportions
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Old 27th October 2019, 07:22 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I have rebuttals to some of this but it belongs in another thread. I too blame her ultimately for her fumbling.
Some politicians just know how to disarm their critics. Reagan and Hillary's husband Bill were masters at this. Bill's Southern charm could adroitly flip the tables. Hillary never seemed to learn how to pivot.
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Old 27th October 2019, 07:55 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
There were many reasons Clinton lost. Benghazi was probably on the bottom of the list.

Trump may very well believe his CT. Barr, I'm not so sure. But the bottom line, they can't produce anything close to reliable evidence.

Trump needed all of them to barely win. Take away Benghazi and Clinton would have probably won.
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Old 28th October 2019, 03:11 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
However, James Comey testified to Congress in 2017 that the Dossier was salacious and unverified.
Didn't Trump say that you can't believe a single word Comey says? "Lying James Comey", wasn't it?

Why would someone who has faith in Trump believe anything Comey says?
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Old 28th October 2019, 04:48 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
or Russia collusion and obstruction, except for the results part.
You don't know how right you are, and how much in agreement with PhantomWolf.
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Old 28th October 2019, 04:50 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Trump Stupidati
Oh, I like this one.

However, the complement to Illuminati should be Obscuranti, should it not?
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Old 28th October 2019, 04:57 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Have you ever read the dossier? How about this bit of conspiracy theorizing..
Have you? Most of the dossier, except for a glaring exception, has been either demonstrated to be true or is now highly probable.

Quote:
So Trump had been conspiring with Putin and Russian intelligence for 5 years so at least since 2011.
No, that doesn't follow at all.
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Old 1st November 2019, 10:24 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Even if the Republicans did vote to remove Trump it wouldn't allow the Democrats to take over the Government. VP Pence would become President and a new VP would be nominated by Pence and confirmed by a Republican Senate. And even so, the Government itself would remain as is, with the Democrats controlling the House and the Republicans controlling the Senate.

The only thing that removing Trump would do is remove Trump. That's it, and that is not a coup in any way shape or form.
A minor detail: A new VP has to be confirmed by both House and Senate (unlike executive appointments and judges, which are confirmed by Senate only). Getting the appointment through both Democratic controlled house and Republican controlled Senate might be difficult, which would leave Pelosi as Speaker of the House as next in line. However, you are correct that, with impeachment and removal, Pence would be President, and very likely Republican nominee for 2020, in the unlikely event that the impeachment inquiry reveals that Trump is drinking the blood of babies, or whatever it is that would convince Republican senators to vote for his removal.
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Old 1st November 2019, 12:58 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
Have you ever read the dossier?
I have

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
How about this bit of conspiracy theorizing.
Regale me!

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
"...the Russian authorities had been cultivating and supporting US Republican presidential candidate, Donald TRUMP for at least 5 years..."

So Trump had been conspiring with Putin and Russian intelligence for 5 years so at least since 2011.
If you tried reading what you write back to yourself before you post, it might give you a chance to see the mistakes you are making.

When an asset is "cultivated" and supported, that doesn't necessary mean that the asset is "conspiring". What is being implied in the Steele Dossier is the relationship between a puppet and its puppetmaster. Trump is the puppet, and Putin is the one pulling the strings.

Originally Posted by tanabear View Post
"In terms of specifics, Source A confided that the Kremlin had been feeding TRUMP and his team valuable intelligence on his opponents, including Democratic presidential candidate Hillary CLINTON, for several years..."

So the Kremlin was plotting with Trump, a reality show star and real estate developer, to run for President in 2016 to thwart the ambitions of Hillary Clinton and this all started in 2011.
Same mistake. You are assuming that because "A" is helping "B", that "B" is therefore conspiring with "A". Your assumptions don't necessarily follow.

<snipped remaining repeated mistakes>

Perhaps you can explain why Trump....

1. Keeps going out of his way to help Russia & Putin.

2. Won't allow any any American government officials to be present (other than a translator) when talking with Putin.

3. Confiscates the translator's notes after talking with Putin.

4. Is so desperate to exonerate Russia for interference in the 2016 election; interference that the REPUBLICAN led Senate Intelligence Committee has 100% confirmed.

5. Blocked efforts of the US Government to condemn Russia for seizing Ukrainian shipping in the Kerch Strait.

6. Undermined US relationships with European allies (to the benefit of Putin).

7. Dismisses the evidence and the findings of his own intelligence officials, preferring to believe the Kremlin instead.

8. Calls the US’s commitment to NATO into question (to the benefit of Putin).

9. Fails to respond to Russian human rights violations thereby creating an easier political environment for Putin to crack down his opponents.

10. Attacks the European Union and publicly supports anti-EU, Kremlin-backed parties.

11. Repeatedly praises and defends Putin, thus affording him the credibility of his standing to the US presidency.

12. repeatedly parrots Putin/Russian/Kremlin talking points across a whole range of international issues.

13, Tries to block, lift, roll back, impede, and lessen the impact of Russia sanctions every chance he gets.

14. Attacks specific NATO members that are particularly vulnerable to Russian aggression.

15. Refused to recommit to NATO’s Article 5 at the opening of their new headquarters. (Article 5 is the bit that states that an attack on one NATO member is an attack on all).

16. Openly supported the Brexit campaign - something Putin desperately wants as well.

When you've done trying to explain/handwave these away, I've got plenty more examples to post.
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Old 1st November 2019, 01:02 PM   #118
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Quote:
When you've done trying to explain/handwave these away, I've got plenty more examples to post.
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Old 1st November 2019, 05:01 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
Getting the appointment through both Democratic controlled house and Republican controlled Senate might be difficult, which would leave Pelosi as Speaker of the House as next in line.
I actually disagree here. I don't see the Democrats playing political games if the nominated person is a reasonable choice.
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Old 1st November 2019, 05:11 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I actually disagree here. I don't see the Democrats playing political games if the nominated person is a reasonable choice.
I can't imagine it either.

The interesting question though is who would President Pence want as his VP and who would want the job? I would imagine if Trump was impeached and removed that there might be a free for all for the GOP nomination.
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