Election Day 2019 Thread

Puppycow · 5th November 2019, 08:20 PM

I looked but didn't see a thread on this already. One year left till the big one!

There's not a whole lot of elections happening this year because it's an odd year, but there are a few:

In Kentucky, Governor Matt Bevin appears to have been ousted.

In Virginia, Democrats appear to be poised to take over both the State Senate and the State Assembly, which would give them control of redistricting next year, I think (not 100% sure about that, but 2020 is a census year).

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...elections.html

Puppycow · 5th November 2019, 09:01 PM

Regarding Kentucky, 100% of precincts have reported and the Democrat has a lead of 4,658 votes, but Bevin hasn't conceded.

GOP's Bevin refuses to concede as Kentucky gubernatorial race goes down to the wire

Quote:

Republican incumbent Gov. Matt Bevin refused to concede late Tuesday in Kentucky's gubernatorial race, citing "irregularities" -- potentially kickstarting weeks of uncertainty as the closely-watched contest with national implications remains too close to call.

With 100 percent of precincts reporting, Bevin was behind Democratic Attorney General Andy Beshear, 49.2 percent (711,955 votes) to 48.9 percent (707,297 votes). Libertarian candidate John Hicks received 28,475 votes, or 2.0 percent.

The Associated Press said it could not declare a winner, owing to the tight margin. Although Bevin has not outlined his next steps, Kentucky law provides for three levels of post-election procedures: a recanvass, a recount, and an election contest.

Even still, it appears likely that Bevin will be gone once he exhausts all his legal options. (The requirements for each are explained in the article above. The latter 2 options would require a judge's approval.)

Notably, Trump held a political rally in Kentucky on Monday to support Bevin's reelection bid:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...rial-elections

Quote:

The Kentucky governor – one of the most unpopular in the nation -- talks about Trump often on the campaign trail and prominently features the president in his TV commercials. And he’s repeatedly defended Trump against the House impeachment inquiry.

“Bevin wants to be bailed out by President Trump, who won the state by a mile in 2016, and it seems like he is bringing up impeachment about every chance he can get,” highlighted Fox News’ anchor and chief national correspondent Ed Henry.

“The point is this race may give us our first real test of whether using impeachment as a weapon is actually more fruitful for Republicans than Democrats, in terms of rallying the conservative base,” Henry explained. “And given Bevin’s troubles back home, it will be a real barometer of whether the president still has coattails in MAGA country, just as we saw him pull a Republican across the finish line in that special House election in North Carolina.”

Still a year to go, and who knows what the political mood of the country will be a year from now, but right now it looks like the political winds are blowing the Democrats' way.

Puppycow · 5th November 2019, 09:08 PM

USA Today story on Virginia:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ia/4155155002/

Quote:

WASHINGTON — Virginia Democrats retook the statehouse for the first time in a generation Tuesday, bathing the once purple sate in a deep blue political hue.

The victory not only means the Democrats will control all the levers of power in Richmond to push through a progressive agenda on gun control and health care, but also gives the party the ability to redraw congressional and state legislative district lines based on the 2020 census.

The victory also provides momentum to the party heading into the 2020 election.

Most of the major Democratic presidential candidates traveled to Virginia to keep the momentum going. Republicans, however, sent Vice President Mike Pence – and not President Donald Trump – across the Potomac for a pre-election push.

As I mentioned earlier: Next year's election will be particularly important as the census, and redistricting that follows, comes only once per decade. Winning state legislatures is the key to winning overall, because the party that wins can then stack the deck in its own favor for the rest of the decade via gerrymandering.

acbytesla · 5th November 2019, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

I looked but didn't see a thread on this already. One year left till the big one!

There's not a whole lot of elections happening this year because it's an odd year, but there are a few:

In Kentucky, Governor Matt Bevin appears to have been ousted.

In Virginia, Democrats appear to be poised to take over both the State Senate and the State Assembly, which would give them control of redistricting next year, I think (not 100% sure about that, but 2020 is a census year).

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...elections.html

Virginia has gone blue. The Democrats have seized both legislative chambers. Combined with their Democratic Governor they should be able to control the agenda there.

Beelzebuddy · 5th November 2019, 09:32 PM

I like the bellweather these elections are setting.

Childlike Empress · 5th November 2019, 10:21 PM

Trump will win against anybody but Tulsi Gabbard if the financial cartel doesn't decide to pull the trigger.

PhantomWolf · 5th November 2019, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Trump will win against anybody but Tulsi Gabbard if the financial cartel doesn't decide to pull the trigger.

And people are beating on Hillary for her comments....

Skeptic Ginger · 5th November 2019, 11:02 PM

I do so hope these wins aren't overturned after the final counts.

CapelDodger · 5th November 2019, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy

I like the bellweather these elections are setting.

I wonder who the scapegoats will be. As, no doubt, do a lot of goats. Which may seem a trivial concern, but Kentucky has more goats per head of population than any other state, so that's a lot of worried goats. (I made the last bit up, but that's the zeitgeist, and who am I to go against the zeitgeist?)

PhantomWolf · 6th November 2019, 02:23 AM

It should be noted that the Republicans did win the Mississippi Governorship, but it was the closet race in 16 years and went to the wire.

Beelzebuddy · 6th November 2019, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Trump will win against anybody but Tulsi Gabbard if the financial cartel doesn't decide to pull the trigger.

Looks to me like he'd lose against anybody, maybe including her. But thanks for the kibitz, Vlad.

Childlike Empress · 6th November 2019, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy

Looks to me like

Of course it does. Just like last time.

kookbreaker · 6th November 2019, 07:11 AM

Looks like the GOP is gonna try and steal the KY election

https://theweek.com/speedreads/87668...-next-governor

Puppycow · 6th November 2019, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Looks like the GOP is gonna try and steal the KY election

https://theweek.com/speedreads/87668...-next-governor

I don't think they'd dare, but we'll see. What he actually said was pretty vague, and I'm not cynical enough yet to assume the worst.

Quote:

“There’s less than one-half of 1%, as I understand, separating the governor and the attorney general,” Stivers said. “We will follow the letter of the law and what various processes determine.”

Stivers, R-Manchester, said based on his staff’s research, the decision could come before the Republican-controlled state legislature.

Under state law, Bevin has 30 days to formally contest the outcome once it is certified by the State Board of Elections. Candidates typically ask for a re-canvass of voting machines and a recount first.

The Great Zaganza · 6th November 2019, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

I don't think they'd dare, but we'll see. What he actually said was pretty vague, and I'm not cynical enough yet to assume the worst.

They should just cut their losses and have the Voting Machine Company refund them for insufficient vote manipulation.

acbytesla · 6th November 2019, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Trump will win against anybody but Tulsi Gabbard if the financial cartel doesn't decide to pull the trigger.

Koo koo for Coco Puffs.

Beelzebuddy · 6th November 2019, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

USA Today story on Virginia:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ia/4155155002/

As I mentioned earlier: Next year's election will be particularly important as the census, and redistricting that follows, comes only once per decade. Winning state legislatures is the key to winning overall, because the party that wins can then stack the deck in its own favor for the rest of the decade via gerrymandering.

I hope they mander the damn gerry right off, blatantly making it impossible for a Trumper to ever win a seat bigger than county dogcatcher, and set themselves up for an important precedent when it gets overturned.

Distracted1 · 6th November 2019, 12:10 PM

Do you think a blatant, and well publicized, attempt to Gerrymander the **** out of the Commonwealth would do some good towards getting both parties to see Gerrymandering as a bad thing nationally?
Would be nice, but I think that is too much to hope for.

The Don · 6th November 2019, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

Do you think a blatant, and well publicized, attempt to Gerrymander the **** out of the Commonwealth would do some good towards getting both parties to see Gerrymandering as a bad thing nationally?
Would be nice, but I think that is too much to hope for.

Well they might just undo the GOP gerrymander so that representation aligns with vote share. Of course the GOP would howl if any steps are taken to level the playing field.

Horatius · 6th November 2019, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by The Don

Well they might just undo the GOP gerrymander so that representation aligns with vote share. Of course the GOP would howl if any steps are taken to level the playing field.

I'm torn. On the one hand, we really do need people in office who really believe in the principles of democracy. But on the other hand, when one side has completely abandoned reason and normalcy, we need to do something about them.

If they're going to complain about the changes being unfair, no matter how fair they actually are, then maybe we should just say **** it, and show them what real unfairness looks like. Maybe then they'll be glad to get back to real fairness.

SuburbanTurkey · 6th November 2019, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Virginia has gone blue. The Democrats have seized both legislative chambers. Combined with their Democratic Governor they should be able to control the agenda there.

Hoping to see repeal of the laws protecting confederate monuments in the state. Right now VA law prohibits municipal governments from removing confederate propaganda from public property.

Not sure if this something that is high priority, but seems like an easy one to me.

dudalb · 6th November 2019, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy

Looks to me like he'd lose against anybody, maybe including her. But thanks for the kibitz, Vlad.

Hey, for CE a Trump vs Gabbard race wold be perfect:no matter who loses, Putin wins.

Distracted1 · 6th November 2019, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Horatius

I'm torn. On the one hand, we really do need people in office who really believe in the principles of democracy. But on the other hand, when one side has completely abandoned reason and normalcy, we need to do something about them.

If they're going to complain about the changes being unfair, no matter how fair they actually are, then maybe we should just say **** it, and show them what real unfairness looks like. Maybe then they'll be glad to get back to real fairness.

Thats what I was suggesting.
Would a wildly, blatantly unfair, Democratic leaning Gerrymander serve to bring the practice to the forefront on a national scale so that it can be dealt with by both parties?

Or would it just continue the Gerrymander "arms race"

dudalb · 6th November 2019, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

Do you think a blatant, and well publicized, attempt to Gerrymander the **** out of the Commonwealth would do some good towards getting both parties to see Gerrymandering as a bad thing nationally?
Would be nice, but I think that is too much to hope for.

Both parties campaign against Gerrymandering when the other side is in charge, but love it when they are in charge.
In California, we got rid of it by intiative, after the state legislature basically did nothing.

dudalb · 6th November 2019, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Horatius

I'm torn. On the one hand, we really do need people in office who really believe in the principles of democracy. But on the other hand, when one side has completely abandoned reason and normalcy, we need to do something about them.

If they're going to complain about the changes being unfair, no matter how fair they actually are, then maybe we should just say **** it, and show them what real unfairness looks like. Maybe then they'll be glad to get back to real fairness.

I have to disagree. "The ends justifies the means" is a very dangerous philosophy.
And, frankly, when it comes to kind of election mischier, I don't trust either party.

dudalb · 6th November 2019, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by The Don

Well they might just undo the GOP gerrymander so that representation aligns with vote share. Of course the GOP would howl if any steps are taken to level the playing field.

One man, one vote.
Which is why I don't like PR.

Armitage72 · 6th November 2019, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

Thats what I was suggesting.
Would a wildly, blatantly unfair, Democratic leaning Gerrymander serve to bring the practice to the forefront on a national scale so that it can be dealt with by both parties?

Or would it just continue the Gerrymander "arms race"

I would expect it to be selectively ignored. Kind of like the guy running for Governor of California who was running blatantly false political ads on Facebook specifically to draw attention to their policy. His ads got blocked after Facebook decided he wasn't a "real" politician.

Distracted1 · 6th November 2019, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Both parties campaign against Gerrymandering when the other side is in charge, but love it when they are in charge.
In California, we got rid of it by intiative, after the state legislature basically did nothing.

Of late, the Democrats have been the party calling foul the most often on Gerrymandering.
That makes it something the red half of the country can ignore.

The howling that the Republicans in VA would let loose with should the new Democratically controlled State legislature attempt to do it "with a vengeance" could provide an impetus to swing the popular consensus towards eliminating the practice.

WilliamSeger · 6th November 2019, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Virginia has gone blue. The Democrats have seized both legislative chambers. Combined with their Democratic Governor they should be able to control the agenda there.

Fun fact: An early agenda item will be to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment by being the 38th state to pass it since Congress passed it in 1972.

Beelzebuddy · 6th November 2019, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

Of late, the Democrats have been the party calling foul the most often on Gerrymandering.
That makes it something the red half of the country can ignore.

The howling that the Republicans in VA would let loose with should the new Democratically controlled State legislature attempt to do it "with a vengeance" could provide an impetus to swing the popular consensus towards eliminating the practice.

And if the Trumpers suddenly have a change of heart and want fairly drawn districts, they need to propose a system for doing so that puts it out of their reach the next time they're in power on a census year. Otherwise it's a false promise like all of the others have been.

acbytesla · 6th November 2019, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by WilliamSeger

Fun fact: An early agenda item will be to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment by being the 38th state to pass it since Congress passed it in 1972.

Why does that matter at this point? The period to approve the ERA expired decades ago.

WilliamSeger · 6th November 2019, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Why does that matter at this point? The period to approve the ERA expired decades ago.

It would be taken to court, asking if the deadline was constitutional, since the Constitution doesn't set a limit, and no other amendment had a deadline. Or Congress could simply legislate to extend the deadline.

Trebuchet · 6th November 2019, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by kookbreaker

Looks like the GOP is gonna try and steal the KY election

https://theweek.com/speedreads/87668...-next-governor

Originally Posted by Puppycow

I don't think they'd dare, but we'll see. What he actually said was pretty vague, and I'm not cynical enough yet to assume the worst.

I, on the other hand, don't think they'll hesitate for a moment. They have no shame.

Segnosaur · 6th November 2019, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Distracted1

Thats what I was suggesting.
Would a wildly, blatantly unfair, Democratic leaning Gerrymander serve to bring the practice to the forefront on a national scale so that it can be dealt with by both parties?

Or would it just continue the Gerrymander "arms race"

Well, its doubtful that the republicans would ever stop their practice of gerrymandering.

So for the Democrats to decide "We will play fair and redistrict based on population only", then they are basically bringing a knife to a gun fight, since the republicans will continue to gerrymander every chance they get.

Distracted1 · 6th November 2019, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Well, its doubtful that the republicans would ever stop their practice of gerrymandering.

So for the Democrats to decide "We will play fair and redistrict based on population only", then they are basically bringing a knife to a gun fight, since the republicans will continue to gerrymander every chance they get.

I agree. The only way to convince Republicans to cooperate with an anti- gerrymander initiative may be an object lesson on how it hurts them too.

Of course, as your "knife to a gunfight" comment illustrates, it may simply accelerate the process in a "gerrymandering arms race" as well.

dudalb · 6th November 2019, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Well, its doubtful that the republicans would ever stop their practice of gerrymandering.

So for the Democrats to decide "We will play fair and redistrict based on population only", then they are basically bringing a knife to a gun fight, since the republicans will continue to gerrymander every chance they get.

You also have the problem that Democrats also gerrymander like crazy when they get control of a state legislature.
Both parties Gerrymander when they have the chance.
As much as I despise Trump and what the GOP has become in the last few years, when it comes to Gerrymandering both sides think it's horrible when the other guy does it, but fine when their side does it.
Neither party will stop gerrymandering. It's only when the people for action..like in Califorian where they passed an intiative taking the redistricting away from elected politicians and into the hands of a non partisan commission, that something was done about the problem.
I infinently prefer the Democrats right now, but I am not going to think they are pure little angels when it comes to dirty politics. They can be very good at it, as Chicago and Illinois show.

dudalb · 6th November 2019, 04:02 PM

This seems appropriate:

Circa 1810:Just shows how long the Gerrymandering sheninagans have been going on.
In fact, this Cartoon is where the term Gerrymander comes from.

dudalb · 6th November 2019, 04:04 PM

Just read a story that although Kentucky and Virginia get the headlines, the real bad news for Trump might be in a number of Surburban elections in Pennslyvania, where the GOP suffered severe setbacks.

Puppycow · 6th November 2019, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Just read a story that although Kentucky and Virginia get the headlines, the real bad news for Trump might be in a number of Surburban elections in Pennslyvania, where the GOP suffered severe setbacks.

Link? TIA

dudalb · 6th November 2019, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

Link? TIA

https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...n-2020-2019-11

5th November 2019, 08:20 PM	#1
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,230	Election Day 2019 Thread I looked but didn't see a thread on this already. One year left till the big one! There's not a whole lot of elections happening this year because it's an odd year, but there are a few: In Kentucky, Governor Matt Bevin appears to have been ousted. In Virginia, Democrats appear to be poised to take over both the State Senate and the State Assembly, which would give them control of redistricting next year, I think (not 100% sure about that, but 2020 is a census year). https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...elections.html
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

5th November 2019, 09:01 PM	#2
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,230	Regarding Kentucky, 100% of precincts have reported and the Democrat has a lead of 4,658 votes, but Bevin hasn't conceded. GOP's Bevin refuses to concede as Kentucky gubernatorial race goes down to the wire Quote: Republican incumbent Gov. Matt Bevin refused to concede late Tuesday in Kentucky's gubernatorial race, citing "irregularities" -- potentially kickstarting weeks of uncertainty as the closely-watched contest with national implications remains too close to call. With 100 percent of precincts reporting, Bevin was behind Democratic Attorney General Andy Beshear, 49.2 percent (711,955 votes) to 48.9 percent (707,297 votes). Libertarian candidate John Hicks received 28,475 votes, or 2.0 percent. The Associated Press said it could not declare a winner, owing to the tight margin. Although Bevin has not outlined his next steps, Kentucky law provides for three levels of post-election procedures: a recanvass, a recount, and an election contest. Even still, it appears likely that Bevin will be gone once he exhausts all his legal options. (The requirements for each are explained in the article above. The latter 2 options would require a judge's approval.) Notably, Trump held a political rally in Kentucky on Monday to support Bevin's reelection bid: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...rial-elections Quote: The Kentucky governor – one of the most unpopular in the nation -- talks about Trump often on the campaign trail and prominently features the president in his TV commercials. And he’s repeatedly defended Trump against the House impeachment inquiry. “Bevin wants to be bailed out by President Trump, who won the state by a mile in 2016, and it seems like he is bringing up impeachment about every chance he can get,” highlighted Fox News’ anchor and chief national correspondent Ed Henry. “The point is this race may give us our first real test of whether using impeachment as a weapon is actually more fruitful for Republicans than Democrats, in terms of rallying the conservative base,” Henry explained. “And given Bevin’s troubles back home, it will be a real barometer of whether the president still has coattails in MAGA country, just as we saw him pull a Republican across the finish line in that special House election in North Carolina.” Still a year to go, and who knows what the political mood of the country will be a year from now, but right now it looks like the political winds are blowing the Democrats' way.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

5th November 2019, 09:08 PM	#3
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,230	USA Today story on Virginia: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ia/4155155002/ Quote: WASHINGTON — Virginia Democrats retook the statehouse for the first time in a generation Tuesday, bathing the once purple sate in a deep blue political hue. The victory not only means the Democrats will control all the levers of power in Richmond to push through a progressive agenda on gun control and health care, but also gives the party the ability to redraw congressional and state legislative district lines based on the 2020 census. The victory also provides momentum to the party heading into the 2020 election. Most of the major Democratic presidential candidates traveled to Virginia to keep the momentum going. Republicans, however, sent Vice President Mike Pence – and not President Donald Trump – across the Potomac for a pre-election push. As I mentioned earlier: Next year's election will be particularly important as the census, and redistricting that follows, comes only once per decade. Winning state legislatures is the key to winning overall, because the party that wins can then stack the deck in its own favor for the rest of the decade via gerrymandering.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

5th November 2019, 09:29 PM	#4
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 23,244	Originally Posted by Puppycow I looked but didn't see a thread on this already. One year left till the big one! There's not a whole lot of elections happening this year because it's an odd year, but there are a few: In Kentucky, Governor Matt Bevin appears to have been ousted. In Virginia, Democrats appear to be poised to take over both the State Senate and the State Assembly, which would give them control of redistricting next year, I think (not 100% sure about that, but 2020 is a census year). https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...elections.html Virginia has gone blue. The Democrats have seized both legislative chambers. Combined with their Democratic Governor they should be able to control the agenda there.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

5th November 2019, 09:32 PM	#5
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 7,073	I like the bellweather these elections are setting.
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 7,073

5th November 2019, 10:21 PM	#6
Childlike Empress Ewige Blumenkraft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 17,685	Trump will win against anybody but Tulsi Gabbard if the financial cartel doesn't decide to pull the trigger.
	__________________ Audiatur et altera pars

5th November 2019, 10:44 PM	#7
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,090	Originally Posted by Childlike Empress Trump will win against anybody but Tulsi Gabbard if the financial cartel doesn't decide to pull the trigger. And people are beating on Hillary for her comments....
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

5th November 2019, 11:02 PM	#8
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 77,055	I do so hope these wins aren't overturned after the final counts.
	__________________ That new avatar is cuteness overload. Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

5th November 2019, 11:24 PM	#9
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 24,614	Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy I like the bellweather these elections are setting. I wonder who the scapegoats will be. As, no doubt, do a lot of goats. Which may seem a trivial concern, but Kentucky has more goats per head of population than any other state, so that's a lot of worried goats. (I made the last bit up, but that's the zeitgeist, and who am I to go against the zeitgeist?)
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

6th November 2019, 02:23 AM	#10
PhantomWolf Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 19,090	It should be noted that the Republicans did win the Mississippi Governorship, but it was the closet race in 16 years and went to the wire.
	__________________ It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

6th November 2019, 05:41 AM	#11
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 7,073	Originally Posted by Childlike Empress Trump will win against anybody but Tulsi Gabbard if the financial cartel doesn't decide to pull the trigger. Looks to me like he'd lose against anybody, maybe including her. But thanks for the kibitz, Vlad.
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 7,073

6th November 2019, 05:48 AM	#12
Childlike Empress Ewige Blumenkraft Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Ivory Tower Posts: 17,685	Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy Looks to me like Of course it does. Just like last time.
	__________________ Audiatur et altera pars

6th November 2019, 07:11 AM	#13
kookbreaker Evil Fokker Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 12,335	Looks like the GOP is gonna try and steal the KY election https://theweek.com/speedreads/87668...-next-governor
	__________________ www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun! Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.

6th November 2019, 07:32 AM	#14
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,230	Originally Posted by kookbreaker Looks like the GOP is gonna try and steal the KY election https://theweek.com/speedreads/87668...-next-governor I don't think they'd dare, but we'll see. What he actually said was pretty vague, and I'm not cynical enough yet to assume the worst. Quote: “There’s less than one-half of 1%, as I understand, separating the governor and the attorney general,” Stivers said. “We will follow the letter of the law and what various processes determine.” Stivers, R-Manchester, said based on his staff’s research, the decision could come before the Republican-controlled state legislature. Under state law, Bevin has 30 days to formally contest the outcome once it is certified by the State Board of Elections. Candidates typically ask for a re-canvass of voting machines and a recount first.
	__________________ A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool. William Shakespeare

6th November 2019, 08:00 AM	#15
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 10,282	Originally Posted by Puppycow I don't think they'd dare, but we'll see. What he actually said was pretty vague, and I'm not cynical enough yet to assume the worst. They should just cut their losses and have the Voting Machine Company refund them for insufficient vote manipulation.
	__________________ “Impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”-Sen. Lindsey Graham

6th November 2019, 09:58 AM	#16
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 23,244	Originally Posted by Childlike Empress Trump will win against anybody but Tulsi Gabbard if the financial cartel doesn't decide to pull the trigger. Koo koo for Coco Puffs.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

6th November 2019, 12:05 PM	#17
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 7,073	Originally Posted by Puppycow USA Today story on Virginia: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ia/4155155002/ As I mentioned earlier: Next year's election will be particularly important as the census, and redistricting that follows, comes only once per decade. Winning state legislatures is the key to winning overall, because the party that wins can then stack the deck in its own favor for the rest of the decade via gerrymandering. I hope they mander the damn gerry right off, blatantly making it impossible for a Trumper to ever win a seat bigger than county dogcatcher, and set themselves up for an important precedent when it gets overturned.
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 7,073

6th November 2019, 12:10 PM	#18
Distracted1 Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,278	Do you think a blatant, and well publicized, attempt to Gerrymander the **** out of the Commonwealth would do some good towards getting both parties to see Gerrymandering as a bad thing nationally? Would be nice, but I think that is too much to hope for.
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

6th November 2019, 12:25 PM	#19
The Don Penultimate Amazing August Co-Pither Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sir Fynwy Posts: 27,507	Originally Posted by Distracted1 Do you think a blatant, and well publicized, attempt to Gerrymander the **** out of the Commonwealth would do some good towards getting both parties to see Gerrymandering as a bad thing nationally? Would be nice, but I think that is too much to hope for. Well they might just undo the GOP gerrymander so that representation aligns with vote share. Of course the GOP would howl if any steps are taken to level the playing field.

6th November 2019, 12:37 PM	#20
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 27,419	Originally Posted by The Don Well they might just undo the GOP gerrymander so that representation aligns with vote share. Of course the GOP would howl if any steps are taken to level the playing field. I'm torn. On the one hand, we really do need people in office who really believe in the principles of democracy. But on the other hand, when one side has completely abandoned reason and normalcy, we need to do something about them. If they're going to complain about the changes being unfair, no matter how fair they actually are, then maybe we should just say **** it, and show them what real unfairness looks like. Maybe then they'll be glad to get back to real fairness.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

6th November 2019, 12:50 PM	#21
SuburbanTurkey Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Boston, USA Posts: 2,327	Originally Posted by acbytesla Virginia has gone blue. The Democrats have seized both legislative chambers. Combined with their Democratic Governor they should be able to control the agenda there. Hoping to see repeal of the laws protecting confederate monuments in the state. Right now VA law prohibits municipal governments from removing confederate propaganda from public property. Not sure if this something that is high priority, but seems like an easy one to me.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

6th November 2019, 12:50 PM	#22
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 46,198	Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy Looks to me like he'd lose against anybody, maybe including her. But thanks for the kibitz, Vlad. Hey, for CE a Trump vs Gabbard race wold be perfect:no matter who loses, Putin wins.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

6th November 2019, 12:53 PM	#23
Distracted1 Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,278	Originally Posted by Horatius I'm torn. On the one hand, we really do need people in office who really believe in the principles of democracy. But on the other hand, when one side has completely abandoned reason and normalcy, we need to do something about them. If they're going to complain about the changes being unfair, no matter how fair they actually are, then maybe we should just say **** it, and show them what real unfairness looks like. Maybe then they'll be glad to get back to real fairness. Thats what I was suggesting. Would a wildly, blatantly unfair, Democratic leaning Gerrymander serve to bring the practice to the forefront on a national scale so that it can be dealt with by both parties? Or would it just continue the Gerrymander "arms race"
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

6th November 2019, 12:54 PM	#24
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 46,198	Originally Posted by Distracted1 Do you think a blatant, and well publicized, attempt to Gerrymander the **** out of the Commonwealth would do some good towards getting both parties to see Gerrymandering as a bad thing nationally? Would be nice, but I think that is too much to hope for. Both parties campaign against Gerrymandering when the other side is in charge, but love it when they are in charge. In California, we got rid of it by intiative, after the state legislature basically did nothing.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

6th November 2019, 12:56 PM	#25
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 46,198	Originally Posted by Horatius I'm torn. On the one hand, we really do need people in office who really believe in the principles of democracy. But on the other hand, when one side has completely abandoned reason and normalcy, we need to do something about them. If they're going to complain about the changes being unfair, no matter how fair they actually are, then maybe we should just say **** it, and show them what real unfairness looks like. Maybe then they'll be glad to get back to real fairness. I have to disagree. "The ends justifies the means" is a very dangerous philosophy. And, frankly, when it comes to kind of election mischier, I don't trust either party.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

6th November 2019, 12:59 PM	#26
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 46,198	Originally Posted by The Don Well they might just undo the GOP gerrymander so that representation aligns with vote share. Of course the GOP would howl if any steps are taken to level the playing field. One man, one vote. Which is why I don't like PR.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein.

6th November 2019, 01:06 PM	#27
Armitage72 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,569	Originally Posted by Distracted1 Thats what I was suggesting. Would a wildly, blatantly unfair, Democratic leaning Gerrymander serve to bring the practice to the forefront on a national scale so that it can be dealt with by both parties? Or would it just continue the Gerrymander "arms race" I would expect it to be selectively ignored. Kind of like the guy running for Governor of California who was running blatantly false political ads on Facebook specifically to draw attention to their policy. His ads got blocked after Facebook decided he wasn't a "real" politician.
Armitage72 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,569

6th November 2019, 01:15 PM	#28
Distracted1 Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,278	Originally Posted by dudalb Both parties campaign against Gerrymandering when the other side is in charge, but love it when they are in charge. In California, we got rid of it by intiative, after the state legislature basically did nothing. Of late, the Democrats have been the party calling foul the most often on Gerrymandering. That makes it something the red half of the country can ignore. The howling that the Republicans in VA would let loose with should the new Democratically controlled State legislature attempt to do it "with a vengeance" could provide an impetus to swing the popular consensus towards eliminating the practice.
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

6th November 2019, 01:44 PM	#29
WilliamSeger Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,082	Originally Posted by acbytesla Virginia has gone blue. The Democrats have seized both legislative chambers. Combined with their Democratic Governor they should be able to control the agenda there. Fun fact: An early agenda item will be to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment by being the 38th state to pass it since Congress passed it in 1972.

6th November 2019, 01:51 PM	#30
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 7,073	Originally Posted by Distracted1 Of late, the Democrats have been the party calling foul the most often on Gerrymandering. That makes it something the red half of the country can ignore. The howling that the Republicans in VA would let loose with should the new Democratically controlled State legislature attempt to do it "with a vengeance" could provide an impetus to swing the popular consensus towards eliminating the practice. And if the Trumpers suddenly have a change of heart and want fairly drawn districts, they need to propose a system for doing so that puts it out of their reach the next time they're in power on a census year. Otherwise it's a false promise like all of the others have been.
Beelzebuddy Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 7,073

6th November 2019, 01:51 PM	#31
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 23,244	Originally Posted by WilliamSeger Fun fact: An early agenda item will be to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment by being the 38th state to pass it since Congress passed it in 1972. Why does that matter at this point? The period to approve the ERA expired decades ago.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

6th November 2019, 02:45 PM	#32
WilliamSeger Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,082	Originally Posted by acbytesla Why does that matter at this point? The period to approve the ERA expired decades ago. It would be taken to court, asking if the deadline was constitutional, since the Constitution doesn't set a limit, and no other amendment had a deadline. Or Congress could simply legislate to extend the deadline.

6th November 2019, 02:48 PM	#33
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Great Northwet Posts: 23,891	Originally Posted by kookbreaker Looks like the GOP is gonna try and steal the KY election https://theweek.com/speedreads/87668...-next-governor Originally Posted by Puppycow I don't think they'd dare, but we'll see. What he actually said was pretty vague, and I'm not cynical enough yet to assume the worst. I, on the other hand, don't think they'll hesitate for a moment. They have no shame.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

6th November 2019, 03:17 PM	#34
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 14,164	Originally Posted by Distracted1 Thats what I was suggesting. Would a wildly, blatantly unfair, Democratic leaning Gerrymander serve to bring the practice to the forefront on a national scale so that it can be dealt with by both parties? Or would it just continue the Gerrymander "arms race" Well, its doubtful that the republicans would ever stop their practice of gerrymandering. So for the Democrats to decide "We will play fair and redistrict based on population only", then they are basically bringing a knife to a gun fight, since the republicans will continue to gerrymander every chance they get.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

6th November 2019, 03:43 PM	#35
Distracted1 Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 3,278	Originally Posted by Segnosaur Well, its doubtful that the republicans would ever stop their practice of gerrymandering. So for the Democrats to decide "We will play fair and redistrict based on population only", then they are basically bringing a knife to a gun fight, since the republicans will continue to gerrymander every chance they get. I agree. The only way to convince Republicans to cooperate with an anti- gerrymander initiative may be an object lesson on how it hurts them too. Of course, as your "knife to a gunfight" comment illustrates, it may simply accelerate the process in a "gerrymandering arms race" as well.
	__________________ The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.