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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , marijuana legalization

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Old 20th November 2019, 06:01 PM   #1
Ranb
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MORE Act. Legal Weed?

House Judiciary Committee approves landmark marijuana legalization bill.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...alization-bill

Quote:
Under the MORE Act, weed would be removed from the Controlled Substances Act, federally legalizing cannabis across the country. Additionally, past federal cannabis convictions would be required to be expunged.

The bill would also establish the Cannabis Justice Office, an organization that would introduce a 5 percent tax on state-legal cannabis sales, among other things.
Who doesn't like this?

Link to the bill; https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...bill/2227/text
Quote:
Not later than 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Attorney General shall finalize a rulemaking under section 201(a)(2) removing marihuana and tetrahydrocannabinols from the schedules of controlled substances. Marihuana and tetrahydrocannabinols shall each be deemed to be a drug or other substance that does not meet the requirements for inclusion in any schedule.
Ranb

Last edited by Ranb; 20th November 2019 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 20th November 2019, 06:08 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
House Judiciary Committee approves landmark marijuana legalization bill.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...alization-bill



Who doesn't like this?

Link to the bill; https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...bill/2227/text


Ranb
Lots of Republicans. It will be interesting to see the vote on the floor or what happens in the Senate. My guess is McConnell will never let it get to the floor.
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Old 20th November 2019, 06:08 PM   #3
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I'm sure we could use the 5% but I can't see LEO signing off on it. I'm also not so sure the medical community would support it either.
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Old 20th November 2019, 06:35 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Lots of Republicans. .....
I was more interested in the opinions of the ISP members.
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Old 20th November 2019, 06:41 PM   #5
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Meh. It's kind of meaningless, actually. Even if enough Dems have the gonads to pass it, Moscow Mitch will just ignore it.
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Old 20th November 2019, 06:46 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
I was more interested in the opinions of the ISP members.
I was assessing the bill and its likelihood of ever becoming a law in the present political environment.

But on a personal level, I hate drugs. Taking any drug including marijuana other than for medical purposes seems a waste of one's mental faculties. That said, I think that canabis should not be illegal and it's a waste of government resources to police it.
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Old 20th November 2019, 06:50 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Meh. It's kind of meaningless, actually. Even if enough Dems have the gonads to pass it, Moscow Mitch will just ignore it.
While I agree that Mitch will ignore it. I don't think it is a waste. It puts the GOP again on the wrong side of something that eventually will pass.
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Old 20th November 2019, 08:37 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
While I agree that Mitch will ignore it. I don't think it is a waste. It puts the GOP again on the wrong side of something that eventually will pass.
And there are Republicans who think it should be legal. Just another thing to peel a few more votes away from the GOP
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Old 20th November 2019, 08:42 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
And there are Republicans who think it should be legal. Just another thing to peel a few more votes away from the GOP
Exactly. As more states legalize it, the Federal stance becomes untenable.
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Old 20th November 2019, 09:44 PM   #10
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Canada has legalized it across the country. Only a matter of time before the US is forced to follow . The big losers will be the private prison operators who rely on incarcerated cannabis users for most of their profits.
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Old 20th November 2019, 10:44 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Canada has legalized it across the country. Only a matter of time before the US is forced to follow . The big losers will be the private prison operators who rely on incarcerated cannabis users for most of their profits.
The courts will fill them with people who have committed another crime. The supply is endless considering the number of laws that fall under the category of Malum prohibitum.
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Old 21st November 2019, 01:26 AM   #12
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It does seem to be the way the world is going. Earlier this year three British MPs visited Canada and came back of the opinion that it should be legalised in the UK, with their predictions of when ranging from 5-15 years.
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Old 21st November 2019, 08:52 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I was assessing the bill and its likelihood of ever becoming a law in the present political environment.

But on a personal level, I hate drugs. Taking any drug including marijuana other than for medical purposes seems a waste of one's mental faculties. That said, I think that canabis should not be illegal and it's a waste of government resources to police it.
I seriously disagree with the hilited as I don't believe there is evidence to support it.

That aside, it would be nice for it to go through; however, ND was supposed to decriminalize and remove previous charges. That was over 2 years ago and mine still shows up.
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Old 21st November 2019, 09:15 AM   #14
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The five percent is too high when you add it to the state taxes. It will push it back to the black market. That could be as high as 15 percent total tax on sales.
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Old 21st November 2019, 09:17 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
The five percent is too high when you add it to the state taxes. It will push it back to the black market. That could be as high as 15 percent total tax on sales.
The margins are that tight?
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Old 21st November 2019, 09:21 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I was assessing the bill and its likelihood of ever becoming a law in the present political environment.

But on a personal level, I hate drugs. Taking any drug including marijuana other than for medical purposes seems a waste of one's mental faculties. That said, I think that canabis should not be illegal and it's a waste of government resources to police it.
Clearly caffeine and theobromine in chocolate count then too.
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Old 21st November 2019, 09:23 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I seriously disagree with the hilited as I don't believe there is evidence to support it.

That aside, it would be nice for it to go through; however, ND was supposed to decriminalize and remove previous charges. That was over 2 years ago and mine still shows up.
Quote:
Cannabis use has been shown to impair cognitive functions on a number of levels—from basic motor coordination to more complex executive function tasks, such as the ability to plan, organize, solve problems, make decisions, remember, and control emotions and behavior.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3037578/
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Old 21st November 2019, 09:30 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Clearly caffeine and theobromine in chocolate count then too.
I've read different studies on the effects of caffeine, Most suggest that caffeine can cause different issues such as accelerated heart rate, higher blood pressure, moderate intake of caffeine has little or no negative effects on cognitive functions.

But if you have additional information, I'd like to read it.
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Old 21st November 2019, 09:33 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I've read different studies on the effects of caffeine, Most suggest that caffeine can cause different issues such as accelerated heart rate, higher blood pressure, moderate intake of caffeine has little or no negative effects on cognitive functions.

But if you have additional information, I'd like to read it.
That is plenty to class it as a drug though and as such should only be used under the care of a doctor. Anyone who uses caffeine clearly is a drug user, and you have made your stance on that clear.
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Old 21st November 2019, 09:37 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
The five percent is too high when you add it to the state taxes. It will push it back to the black market. That could be as high as 15 percent total tax on sales.
Actually, that would bring them into line with things like alcohol and cigarettes (although alcohol, for example, has federal taxes "per gallon" in amounts based on alcohol content, rather than as a percent of the price, so it's hard to give an exact rate). I don't think 15% is unreasonable for something like this, nor a huge financial burden.
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Old 21st November 2019, 09:40 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Lots of Republicans.
You realize Biden (stupidly) came out against Marijuana like two days ago right?
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Old 21st November 2019, 09:40 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post

Are you saying that anything that may have lasting effects on one's health are, de facto, things one should not do?
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Old 21st November 2019, 09:53 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
The five percent is too high when you add it to the state taxes. It will push it back to the black market. That could be as high as 15 percent total tax on sales.
I don't think this will be the case. Take North Dakota for instance, 3.5 grams of weed (your standard 'eighth') sells for $60US. In Colorado the cost is about $32 for the same amount. You could add 10% on to that cost and it wouldn't be close to ND's black market cost.

Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'm not contesting that it has an effect. I'm contesting it's a waste of one's mental faculties. For some of us, escaping ones mental faculties is the entire goal. I have an extremely, extremely active brain. Smoking pot is one of the few things that gets it to settle down. It's not up to anyone else to tell me how I should use my own brain.

ETA: Also, drugs affect people in entirely different ways. Your article might be relevant to some people, but not all.

ETA ETA: If you follow the link in that article to the finished product, you'll notice they added a massive qualifier:

Quote:
Cannabis use may impair cognitive functions on a number of levels—from basic motor coordination to more complex executive function tasks, such as the ability to plan, organize, solve problems, make decisions, remember, and control emotions and behavior. These deficits differ in severity depending on the quantity, recency, age of onset, and duration of marijuana use.
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Last edited by plague311; 21st November 2019 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 21st November 2019, 09:56 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
It's not up to anyone else to tell me how I should use my own brain.
I order you not to think about hippopotamuses.
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Old 21st November 2019, 10:01 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I order you not to think about hippopotamuses.
Did you get that thing I sent you?
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Old 21st November 2019, 10:02 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Ha ha! Reference!
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Old 21st November 2019, 10:09 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
That is plenty to class it as a drug though and as such should only be used under the care of a doctor. Anyone who uses caffeine clearly is a drug user, and you have made your stance on that clear.
I DON'T drink coffee, energy drinks or take caffeine. I think it probably is better for people not to. But I am not a Doctor and I don't or desire to make decisions for others. Admittedly, I have less of a personal issue with their consumption as I don't see a negative cognitive effect. If anything, it seems as if people consume caffeine more for an energy boost.
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Old 21st November 2019, 10:11 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Are you saying that anything that may have lasting effects on one's health are, de facto, things one should not do?
Yeah. Particularly when it degrades brain functions. But people are going to do what they are going to do.
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Old 21st November 2019, 10:24 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post

I'm not contesting that it has an effect. I'm contesting it's a waste of one's mental faculties. For some of us, escaping ones mental faculties is the entire goal. I have an extremely, extremely active brain. Smoking pot is one of the few things that gets it to settle down. It's not up to anyone else to tell me how I should use my own brain.

ETA: Also, drugs affect people in entirely different ways. Your article might be relevant to some people, but not all.

ETA ETA: If you follow the link in that article to the finished product, you'll notice they added a massive qualifier:
I don't disagree with any of that. I have seen both high functioning canabis users and alcoholics. Some individuals seem less or more affected than others. I grant you that. I have been drunk and stoned in my life. Neither would I describe as positive and in neither case would I say my cognitive functions were enhanced. I think I too have an "active brain". I can't imagine wanting to slow it down.

But hey, that's me. That said, I've personally seen canabis destroy people's lives.
I'm not telling anyone how to live their lives. I also do not support the government telling them either.
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Old 21st November 2019, 10:25 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I DON'T drink coffee, energy drinks or take caffeine. I think it probably is better for people not to. But I am not a Doctor and I don't or desire to make decisions for others. Admittedly, I have less of a personal issue with their consumption as I don't see a negative cognitive effect. If anything, it seems as if people consume caffeine more for an energy boost.
Quote:
...at high doses, there is an increase in tense arousal, including anxiety, nervousness, jitteriness.
You probably can't "see negative cognitive effect(s)" in people that smoke pot either. In fact, I'd bet you interact with people that smoke weed all of the time with absolutely no clue that they do. You read something, it confirmed your bias, and now you're repeating it. As wrong as it is.
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Old 21st November 2019, 10:29 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
But hey, that's me. That said, I've personally seen canabis destroy people's lives.
I'm not going to address your other statements, because I find them to be anecdotal. You appear, to me, to be applying your anecdotal experiences to others. Which is fine, but I'm genuinely curious about this statement. How has cannabis destroyed people's lives?
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Last edited by plague311; 21st November 2019 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 21st November 2019, 10:32 AM   #32
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Legalize? Not yet.

Decriminalize? End all prosecutions? Allow research and interstate commerce? Absolutely.
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Old 21st November 2019, 10:39 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
House Judiciary Committee approves landmark marijuana legalization bill.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...alization-bill



Who doesn't like this?

Link to the bill; https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...bill/2227/text


Ranb
You know and I know that the only argument at the federal level will be the price of the tax stamp.

There's simply too much money for the feds to not want their piece of it.
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Old 21st November 2019, 10:44 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Yeah. Particularly when it degrades brain functions. But people are going to do what they are going to do.

Most sport, played at a high level, have a detrimental effect on one's future health.

Running, at any level, can absolutely knacker one's knees and actually induce chemical dependency.


I don't think 'may cause health problems in future' is in any way a reasonable standard.
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Old 21st November 2019, 10:45 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I'm not going to address your other statements, because I find them to be anecdotal. You appear, to me, to be applying your anecdotal experiences to others. Which is fine, but I'm genuinely curious about this statement. How has cannabis destroyed people's lives?
I'm from a family of 9 children. I'm next to the youngest. Every single sibling is a regular even obsessive canabis user. And I've personally seen a decline in their mental and motor functions. I saw highly motivated individuals lose their motivation almost entirely. I've seen friends experience the same result. Can it all be attributed to cannabis use? Who's to say? I'm not sure how to eliminate the other variables.

.
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Old 21st November 2019, 10:50 AM   #36
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
You probably can't "see negative cognitive effect(s)" in people that smoke pot either. In fact, I'd bet you interact with people that smoke weed all of the time with absolutely no clue that they do. You read something, it confirmed your bias, and now you're repeating it. As wrong as it is.
Really? As I said, I've been stoned and I can say from my experience that my cognitive and motor functions suffered. I remain unconvinced that this isn't true of others.
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Old 21st November 2019, 10:50 AM   #37
plague311
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'm from a family of 9 children. I'm next to the youngest. Every single sibling is a regular even obsessive canabis user. And I've personally seen a decline in their mental and motor functions. I saw highly motivated individuals lose their motivation almost entirely. I've seen friends experience the same result. Can it all be attributed to cannabis use? Who's to say? I'm not sure how to eliminate the other variables.

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Uhm, if it's all of them then I would say it's extremely more likely to be in their genes rather than related to marijuana. Again, though, this is anecdotal. I just wanted to make sure that none of this was rooted in actual, physical evidence. It was just based on your own personal experiences.

Thanks for indulging me, it's appreciated.
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Old 21st November 2019, 10:52 AM   #38
Armitage72
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Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Legalize? Not yet.

Decriminalize? End all prosecutions? Allow research and interstate commerce? Absolutely.


When states started approving it for medical use, I heard Sean Hannity ranting about how unnecessary it was, because cancer patients could just take four or five pills and get the same effect. Legalization or decriminalization would make heads explode.
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Old 21st November 2019, 10:52 AM   #39
plague311
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Really? As I said, I've been stoned and I can say from my experience that my cognitive and motor functions suffered. I remain unconvinced that this isn't true of others.
Great, I'm not trying to convince you since you're not using any form of rationale to come to your conclusion. You're merely saying, "since this is how I experience it, this is how everyone experiences it." Which I've said is anecdotal and isn't the case for everyone.
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Old 21st November 2019, 11:04 AM   #40
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Uhm, if it's all of them then I would say it's extremely more likely to be in their genes rather than related to marijuana. Again, though, this is anecdotal. I just wanted to make sure that none of this was rooted in actual, physical evidence. It was just based on your own personal experiences.

Thanks for indulging me, it's appreciated.
I'm from the same gene pool. So I doubt it.

Especially when I watched the decline and how it coincided with their use of drugs. Or when I would walk into their homes and see their zombie like contentment of being high.

That said, I see plenty of people who occasionally partake who don't seem to suffer long term effects.
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