MORE Act. Legal Weed?

Ranb · 20th November 2019, 06:01 PM

House Judiciary Committee approves landmark marijuana legalization bill.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...alization-bill

Quote:

Under the MORE Act, weed would be removed from the Controlled Substances Act, federally legalizing cannabis across the country. Additionally, past federal cannabis convictions would be required to be expunged.

The bill would also establish the Cannabis Justice Office, an organization that would introduce a 5 percent tax on state-legal cannabis sales, among other things.

Who doesn't like this?

Link to the bill; https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...bill/2227/text

Quote:

Not later than 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Attorney General shall finalize a rulemaking under section 201(a)(2) removing marihuana and tetrahydrocannabinols from the schedules of controlled substances. Marihuana and tetrahydrocannabinols shall each be deemed to be a drug or other substance that does not meet the requirements for inclusion in any schedule.

Ranb

acbytesla · 20th November 2019, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by Ranb

House Judiciary Committee approves landmark marijuana legalization bill.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...alization-bill

Who doesn't like this?

Link to the bill; https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...bill/2227/text

Ranb

Lots of Republicans. It will be interesting to see the vote on the floor or what happens in the Senate. My guess is McConnell will never let it get to the floor.

bam · 20th November 2019, 06:08 PM

I'm sure we could use the 5% but I can't see LEO signing off on it. I'm also not so sure the medical community would support it either.

Ranb · 20th November 2019, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Lots of Republicans. .....

I was more interested in the opinions of the ISP members.

Trebuchet · 20th November 2019, 06:41 PM

Meh. It's kind of meaningless, actually. Even if enough Dems have the gonads to pass it, Moscow Mitch will just ignore it.

acbytesla · 20th November 2019, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Ranb

I was more interested in the opinions of the ISP members.

I was assessing the bill and its likelihood of ever becoming a law in the present political environment.

But on a personal level, I hate drugs. Taking any drug including marijuana other than for medical purposes seems a waste of one's mental faculties. That said, I think that canabis should not be illegal and it's a waste of government resources to police it.

acbytesla · 20th November 2019, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

Meh. It's kind of meaningless, actually. Even if enough Dems have the gonads to pass it, Moscow Mitch will just ignore it.

While I agree that Mitch will ignore it. I don't think it is a waste. It puts the GOP again on the wrong side of something that eventually will pass.

The_Animus · 20th November 2019, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

While I agree that Mitch will ignore it. I don't think it is a waste. It puts the GOP again on the wrong side of something that eventually will pass.

And there are Republicans who think it should be legal. Just another thing to peel a few more votes away from the GOP

acbytesla · 20th November 2019, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by The_Animus

And there are Republicans who think it should be legal. Just another thing to peel a few more votes away from the GOP

Exactly. As more states legalize it, the Federal stance becomes untenable.

Steve · 20th November 2019, 09:44 PM

Canada has legalized it across the country. Only a matter of time before the US is forced to follow

. The big losers will be the private prison operators who rely on incarcerated cannabis users for most of their profits.

rockinkt · 20th November 2019, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by Steve

Canada has legalized it across the country. Only a matter of time before the US is forced to follow

. The big losers will be the private prison operators who rely on incarcerated cannabis users for most of their profits.

The courts will fill them with people who have committed another crime. The supply is endless considering the number of laws that fall under the category of Malum prohibitum.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 21st November 2019, 01:26 AM

It does seem to be the way the world is going. Earlier this year three British MPs visited Canada and came back of the opinion that it should be legalised in the UK, with their predictions of when ranging from 5-15 years.

plague311 · 21st November 2019, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I was assessing the bill and its likelihood of ever becoming a law in the present political environment.

But on a personal level, I hate drugs. Taking any drug including marijuana other than for medical purposes seems a waste of one's mental faculties. That said, I think that canabis should not be illegal and it's a waste of government resources to police it.

I seriously disagree with the hilited as I don't believe there is evidence to support it.

That aside, it would be nice for it to go through; however, ND was supposed to decriminalize and remove previous charges. That was over 2 years ago and mine still shows up.

Craig4 · 21st November 2019, 09:15 AM

The five percent is too high when you add it to the state taxes. It will push it back to the black market. That could be as high as 15 percent total tax on sales.

ponderingturtle · 21st November 2019, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Craig4

The five percent is too high when you add it to the state taxes. It will push it back to the black market. That could be as high as 15 percent total tax on sales.

The margins are that tight?

ponderingturtle · 21st November 2019, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I was assessing the bill and its likelihood of ever becoming a law in the present political environment.

But on a personal level, I hate drugs. Taking any drug including marijuana other than for medical purposes seems a waste of one's mental faculties. That said, I think that canabis should not be illegal and it's a waste of government resources to police it.

Clearly caffeine and theobromine in chocolate count then too.

acbytesla · 21st November 2019, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

I seriously disagree with the hilited as I don't believe there is evidence to support it.

That aside, it would be nice for it to go through; however, ND was supposed to decriminalize and remove previous charges. That was over 2 years ago and mine still shows up.

Quote:

Cannabis use has been shown to impair cognitive functions on a number of levels—from basic motor coordination to more complex executive function tasks, such as the ability to plan, organize, solve problems, make decisions, remember, and control emotions and behavior.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3037578/

acbytesla · 21st November 2019, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Clearly caffeine and theobromine in chocolate count then too.

I've read different studies on the effects of caffeine, Most suggest that caffeine can cause different issues such as accelerated heart rate, higher blood pressure, moderate intake of caffeine has little or no negative effects on cognitive functions.

But if you have additional information, I'd like to read it.

ponderingturtle · 21st November 2019, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I've read different studies on the effects of caffeine, Most suggest that caffeine can cause different issues such as accelerated heart rate, higher blood pressure, moderate intake of caffeine has little or no negative effects on cognitive functions.

But if you have additional information, I'd like to read it.

That is plenty to class it as a drug though and as such should only be used under the care of a doctor. Anyone who uses caffeine clearly is a drug user, and you have made your stance on that clear.

Hellbound · 21st November 2019, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Craig4

The five percent is too high when you add it to the state taxes. It will push it back to the black market. That could be as high as 15 percent total tax on sales.

Actually, that would bring them into line with things like alcohol and cigarettes (although alcohol, for example, has federal taxes "per gallon" in amounts based on alcohol content, rather than as a percent of the price, so it's hard to give an exact rate). I don't think 15% is unreasonable for something like this, nor a huge financial burden.

DuvalHMFIC · 21st November 2019, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Lots of Republicans.

You realize Biden (stupidly) came out against Marijuana like two days ago right?

3point14 · 21st November 2019, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3037578/

Are you saying that anything that may have lasting effects on one's health are, de facto, things one should not do?

plague311 · 21st November 2019, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Craig4

The five percent is too high when you add it to the state taxes. It will push it back to the black market. That could be as high as 15 percent total tax on sales.

I don't think this will be the case. Take North Dakota for instance, 3.5 grams of weed (your standard 'eighth') sells for $60US. In Colorado the cost is about $32 for the same amount. You could add 10% on to that cost and it wouldn't be close to ND's black market cost.

Originally Posted by acbytesla

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3037578/

I'm not contesting that it has an effect. I'm contesting it's a waste of one's mental faculties. For some of us, escaping ones mental faculties is the entire goal. I have an extremely, extremely active brain. Smoking pot is one of the few things that gets it to settle down. It's not up to anyone else to tell me how I should use my own brain.

ETA: Also, drugs affect people in entirely different ways. Your article might be relevant to some people, but not all.

ETA ETA: If you follow the link in that article to the finished product, you'll notice they added a massive qualifier:

Quote:

Cannabis use may impair cognitive functions on a number of levels—from basic motor coordination to more complex executive function tasks, such as the ability to plan, organize, solve problems, make decisions, remember, and control emotions and behavior. These deficits differ in severity depending on the quantity, recency, age of onset, and duration of marijuana use.

TragicMonkey · 21st November 2019, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

It's not up to anyone else to tell me how I should use my own brain.

I order you not to think about hippopotamuses.

plague311 · 21st November 2019, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I order you not to think about hippopotamuses.

Did you get that thing I sent you?

TragicMonkey · 21st November 2019, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

Did you get that thing I sent you?

Ha ha! Reference!

acbytesla · 21st November 2019, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

That is plenty to class it as a drug though and as such should only be used under the care of a doctor. Anyone who uses caffeine clearly is a drug user, and you have made your stance on that clear.

I DON'T drink coffee, energy drinks or take caffeine. I think it probably is better for people not to. But I am not a Doctor and I don't or desire to make decisions for others. Admittedly, I have less of a personal issue with their consumption as I don't see a negative cognitive effect. If anything, it seems as if people consume caffeine more for an energy boost.

acbytesla · 21st November 2019, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by 3point14

Are you saying that anything that may have lasting effects on one's health are, de facto, things one should not do?

Yeah. Particularly when it degrades brain functions. But people are going to do what they are going to do.

acbytesla · 21st November 2019, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

I'm not contesting that it has an effect. I'm contesting it's a waste of one's mental faculties. For some of us, escaping ones mental faculties is the entire goal. I have an extremely, extremely active brain. Smoking pot is one of the few things that gets it to settle down. It's not up to anyone else to tell me how I should use my own brain.

ETA: Also, drugs affect people in entirely different ways. Your article might be relevant to some people, but not all.

ETA ETA: If you follow the link in that article to the finished product, you'll notice they added a massive qualifier:

I don't disagree with any of that. I have seen both high functioning canabis users and alcoholics. Some individuals seem less or more affected than others. I grant you that. I have been drunk and stoned in my life. Neither would I describe as positive and in neither case would I say my cognitive functions were enhanced. I think I too have an "active brain". I can't imagine wanting to slow it down.

But hey, that's me. That said, I've personally seen canabis destroy people's lives.
I'm not telling anyone how to live their lives. I also do not support the government telling them either.

plague311 · 21st November 2019, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I DON'T drink coffee, energy drinks or take caffeine. I think it probably is better for people not to. But I am not a Doctor and I don't or desire to make decisions for others. Admittedly, I have less of a personal issue with their consumption as I don't see a negative cognitive effect. If anything, it seems as if people consume caffeine more for an energy boost.

Quote:

...at high doses, there is an increase in tense arousal, including anxiety, nervousness, jitteriness.

You probably can't "see negative cognitive effect(s)" in people that smoke pot either. In fact, I'd bet you interact with people that smoke weed all of the time with absolutely no clue that they do. You read something, it confirmed your bias, and now you're repeating it. As wrong as it is.

plague311 · 21st November 2019, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

But hey, that's me. That said, I've personally seen canabis destroy people's lives.

I'm not going to address your other statements, because I find them to be anecdotal. You appear, to me, to be applying your anecdotal experiences to others. Which is fine, but I'm genuinely curious about this statement. How has cannabis destroyed people's lives?

Hercules56 · 21st November 2019, 10:32 AM

Legalize? Not yet.

Decriminalize? End all prosecutions? Allow research and interstate commerce? Absolutely.

BStrong · 21st November 2019, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Ranb

House Judiciary Committee approves landmark marijuana legalization bill.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...alization-bill

Who doesn't like this?

Link to the bill; https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...bill/2227/text

Ranb

You know and I know that the only argument at the federal level will be the price of the tax stamp.

There's simply too much money for the feds to not want their piece of it.

3point14 · 21st November 2019, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Yeah. Particularly when it degrades brain functions. But people are going to do what they are going to do.

Most sport, played at a high level, have a detrimental effect on one's future health.

Running, at any level, can absolutely knacker one's knees and actually induce chemical dependency.

I don't think 'may cause health problems in future' is in any way a reasonable standard.

acbytesla · 21st November 2019, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

I'm not going to address your other statements, because I find them to be anecdotal. You appear, to me, to be applying your anecdotal experiences to others. Which is fine, but I'm genuinely curious about this statement. How has cannabis destroyed people's lives?

I'm from a family of 9 children. I'm next to the youngest. Every single sibling is a regular even obsessive canabis user. And I've personally seen a decline in their mental and motor functions. I saw highly motivated individuals lose their motivation almost entirely. I've seen friends experience the same result. Can it all be attributed to cannabis use? Who's to say? I'm not sure how to eliminate the other variables.

.

acbytesla · 21st November 2019, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

You probably can't "see negative cognitive effect(s)" in people that smoke pot either. In fact, I'd bet you interact with people that smoke weed all of the time with absolutely no clue that they do. You read something, it confirmed your bias, and now you're repeating it. As wrong as it is.

Really? As I said, I've been stoned and I can say from my experience that my cognitive and motor functions suffered. I remain unconvinced that this isn't true of others.

plague311 · 21st November 2019, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I'm from a family of 9 children. I'm next to the youngest. Every single sibling is a regular even obsessive canabis user. And I've personally seen a decline in their mental and motor functions. I saw highly motivated individuals lose their motivation almost entirely. I've seen friends experience the same result. Can it all be attributed to cannabis use? Who's to say? I'm not sure how to eliminate the other variables.

.

Uhm, if it's all of them then I would say it's extremely more likely to be in their genes rather than related to marijuana. Again, though, this is anecdotal. I just wanted to make sure that none of this was rooted in actual, physical evidence. It was just based on your own personal experiences.

Thanks for indulging me, it's appreciated.

Armitage72 · 21st November 2019, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Hercules56

Legalize? Not yet.

Decriminalize? End all prosecutions? Allow research and interstate commerce? Absolutely.

When states started approving it for medical use, I heard Sean Hannity ranting about how unnecessary it was, because cancer patients could just take four or five pills and get the same effect. Legalization or decriminalization would make heads explode.

plague311 · 21st November 2019, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Really? As I said, I've been stoned and I can say from my experience that my cognitive and motor functions suffered. I remain unconvinced that this isn't true of others.

Great, I'm not trying to convince you since you're not using any form of rationale to come to your conclusion. You're merely saying, "since this is how I experience it, this is how everyone experiences it." Which I've said is anecdotal and isn't the case for everyone.

acbytesla · 21st November 2019, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

Uhm, if it's all of them then I would say it's extremely more likely to be in their genes rather than related to marijuana. Again, though, this is anecdotal. I just wanted to make sure that none of this was rooted in actual, physical evidence. It was just based on your own personal experiences.

Thanks for indulging me, it's appreciated.

I'm from the same gene pool. So I doubt it.

Especially when I watched the decline and how it coincided with their use of drugs. Or when I would walk into their homes and see their zombie like contentment of being high.

That said, I see plenty of people who occasionally partake who don't seem to suffer long term effects.

20th November 2019, 06:01 PM	#1
Ranb Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WA USA Posts: 9,945	MORE Act. Legal Weed? House Judiciary Committee approves landmark marijuana legalization bill. https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...alization-bill Quote: Under the MORE Act, weed would be removed from the Controlled Substances Act, federally legalizing cannabis across the country. Additionally, past federal cannabis convictions would be required to be expunged. The bill would also establish the Cannabis Justice Office, an organization that would introduce a 5 percent tax on state-legal cannabis sales, among other things. Who doesn't like this? Link to the bill; https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...bill/2227/text Quote: Not later than 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Attorney General shall finalize a rulemaking under section 201(a)(2) removing marihuana and tetrahydrocannabinols from the schedules of controlled substances. Marihuana and tetrahydrocannabinols shall each be deemed to be a drug or other substance that does not meet the requirements for inclusion in any schedule. Ranb
	Last edited by Ranb; 20th November 2019 at 06:05 PM.

20th November 2019, 06:08 PM	#2
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 23,243	Originally Posted by Ranb House Judiciary Committee approves landmark marijuana legalization bill. https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...alization-bill Who doesn't like this? Link to the bill; https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...bill/2227/text Ranb Lots of Republicans. It will be interesting to see the vote on the floor or what happens in the Senate. My guess is McConnell will never let it get to the floor.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

20th November 2019, 06:08 PM	#3
bam Student Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 46	I'm sure we could use the 5% but I can't see LEO signing off on it. I'm also not so sure the medical community would support it either.
bam Student Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 46

20th November 2019, 06:41 PM	#5
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Great Northwet Posts: 23,890	Meh. It's kind of meaningless, actually. Even if enough Dems have the gonads to pass it, Moscow Mitch will just ignore it.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

20th November 2019, 06:46 PM	#6
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 23,243	Originally Posted by Ranb I was more interested in the opinions of the ISP members. I was assessing the bill and its likelihood of ever becoming a law in the present political environment. But on a personal level, I hate drugs. Taking any drug including marijuana other than for medical purposes seems a waste of one's mental faculties. That said, I think that canabis should not be illegal and it's a waste of government resources to police it.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

20th November 2019, 06:35 PM	#4
Ranb Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: WA USA Posts: 9,945	Originally Posted by acbytesla Lots of Republicans. ..... I was more interested in the opinions of the ISP members.

20th November 2019, 06:50 PM	#7
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 23,243	Originally Posted by Trebuchet Meh. It's kind of meaningless, actually. Even if enough Dems have the gonads to pass it, Moscow Mitch will just ignore it. While I agree that Mitch will ignore it. I don't think it is a waste. It puts the GOP again on the wrong side of something that eventually will pass.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

20th November 2019, 08:37 PM	#8
The_Animus Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,091	Originally Posted by acbytesla While I agree that Mitch will ignore it. I don't think it is a waste. It puts the GOP again on the wrong side of something that eventually will pass. And there are Republicans who think it should be legal. Just another thing to peel a few more votes away from the GOP
The_Animus Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,091	__________________ Don't feed the trolls. Just ignore them.

20th November 2019, 08:42 PM	#9
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 23,243	Originally Posted by The_Animus And there are Republicans who think it should be legal. Just another thing to peel a few more votes away from the GOP Exactly. As more states legalize it, the Federal stance becomes untenable.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

20th November 2019, 09:44 PM	#10
Steve Philosopher Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,136	Canada has legalized it across the country. Only a matter of time before the US is forced to follow . The big losers will be the private prison operators who rely on incarcerated cannabis users for most of their profits.
Steve Philosopher Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 6,136	__________________ Caption from and old New Yorker cartoon - Why am I shouting? Because I'm wrong!"

20th November 2019, 10:44 PM	#11
rockinkt Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 1,417	Originally Posted by Steve Canada has legalized it across the country. Only a matter of time before the US is forced to follow . The big losers will be the private prison operators who rely on incarcerated cannabis users for most of their profits. The courts will fill them with people who have committed another crime. The supply is endless considering the number of laws that fall under the category of Malum prohibitum.
	__________________ "Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that." *Steve Earle* "I've met Bob Dylan's bodyguards and if Steve Earle thinks he can stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table, he's sadly mistaken." *Townes Van Zandt*

21st November 2019, 01:26 AM	#12
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 26,081	It does seem to be the way the world is going. Earlier this year three British MPs visited Canada and came back of the opinion that it should be legalised in the UK, with their predictions of when ranging from 5-15 years.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

21st November 2019, 08:52 AM	#13
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 7,082	Originally Posted by acbytesla I was assessing the bill and its likelihood of ever becoming a law in the present political environment. But on a personal level, I hate drugs. Taking any drug including marijuana other than for medical purposes seems a waste of one's mental faculties. That said, I think that canabis should not be illegal and it's a waste of government resources to police it. I seriously disagree with the hilited as I don't believe there is evidence to support it. That aside, it would be nice for it to go through; however, ND was supposed to decriminalize and remove previous charges. That was over 2 years ago and mine still shows up.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

21st November 2019, 09:15 AM	#14
Craig4 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State. Posts: 19,274	The five percent is too high when you add it to the state taxes. It will push it back to the black market. That could be as high as 15 percent total tax on sales.
	__________________ A MAGA hat = a Swastika arm band. A vote for Trump is a vote for treason.

21st November 2019, 09:17 AM	#15
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 48,309	Originally Posted by Craig4 The five percent is too high when you add it to the state taxes. It will push it back to the black market. That could be as high as 15 percent total tax on sales. The margins are that tight?
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

21st November 2019, 09:21 AM	#16
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 48,309	Originally Posted by acbytesla I was assessing the bill and its likelihood of ever becoming a law in the present political environment. But on a personal level, I hate drugs. Taking any drug including marijuana other than for medical purposes seems a waste of one's mental faculties. That said, I think that canabis should not be illegal and it's a waste of government resources to police it. Clearly caffeine and theobromine in chocolate count then too.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

21st November 2019, 09:23 AM	#17
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 23,243	Originally Posted by plague311 I seriously disagree with the hilited as I don't believe there is evidence to support it. That aside, it would be nice for it to go through; however, ND was supposed to decriminalize and remove previous charges. That was over 2 years ago and mine still shows up. Quote: Cannabis use has been shown to impair cognitive functions on a number of levels—from basic motor coordination to more complex executive function tasks, such as the ability to plan, organize, solve problems, make decisions, remember, and control emotions and behavior. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3037578/
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

21st November 2019, 09:30 AM	#18
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 23,243	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle Clearly caffeine and theobromine in chocolate count then too. I've read different studies on the effects of caffeine, Most suggest that caffeine can cause different issues such as accelerated heart rate, higher blood pressure, moderate intake of caffeine has little or no negative effects on cognitive functions. But if you have additional information, I'd like to read it.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

21st November 2019, 09:33 AM	#19
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 48,309	Originally Posted by acbytesla I've read different studies on the effects of caffeine, Most suggest that caffeine can cause different issues such as accelerated heart rate, higher blood pressure, moderate intake of caffeine has little or no negative effects on cognitive functions. But if you have additional information, I'd like to read it. That is plenty to class it as a drug though and as such should only be used under the care of a doctor. Anyone who uses caffeine clearly is a drug user, and you have made your stance on that clear.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

21st November 2019, 09:37 AM	#20
Hellbound Merchant of Doom Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day... Posts: 14,043	Originally Posted by Craig4 The five percent is too high when you add it to the state taxes. It will push it back to the black market. That could be as high as 15 percent total tax on sales. Actually, that would bring them into line with things like alcohol and cigarettes (although alcohol, for example, has federal taxes "per gallon" in amounts based on alcohol content, rather than as a percent of the price, so it's hard to give an exact rate). I don't think 15% is unreasonable for something like this, nor a huge financial burden.
	__________________ History does not always repeat itself. Sometimes it just yells "Can't you remember anything I told you?" and lets fly with a club. - John w. Campbell

21st November 2019, 09:40 AM	#21
DuvalHMFIC Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,356	Originally Posted by acbytesla Lots of Republicans. You realize Biden (stupidly) came out against Marijuana like two days ago right?
	__________________ Ben is sick ladies and gentlemen, thats right, Ben is sick.

21st November 2019, 09:40 AM	#22
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 18,737	Originally Posted by acbytesla https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3037578/ Are you saying that anything that may have lasting effects on one's health are, de facto, things one should not do?
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 18,737	__________________ Up the River! Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]

21st November 2019, 09:53 AM	#23
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 7,082	Originally Posted by Craig4 The five percent is too high when you add it to the state taxes. It will push it back to the black market. That could be as high as 15 percent total tax on sales. I don't think this will be the case. Take North Dakota for instance, 3.5 grams of weed (your standard 'eighth') sells for $60US. In Colorado the cost is about $32 for the same amount. You could add 10% on to that cost and it wouldn't be close to ND's black market cost. Originally Posted by acbytesla https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3037578/ I'm not contesting that it has an effect. I'm contesting it's a waste of one's mental faculties. For some of us, escaping ones mental faculties is the entire goal. I have an extremely, extremely active brain. Smoking pot is one of the few things that gets it to settle down. It's not up to anyone else to tell me how I should use my own brain. ETA: Also, drugs affect people in entirely different ways. Your article might be relevant to some people, but not all. ETA ETA: If you follow the link in that article to the finished product, you'll notice they added a massive qualifier: Quote: Cannabis use may impair cognitive functions on a number of levels—from basic motor coordination to more complex executive function tasks, such as the ability to plan, organize, solve problems, make decisions, remember, and control emotions and behavior. These deficits differ in severity depending on the quantity, recency, age of onset, and duration of marijuana use.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss Last edited by plague311; 21st November 2019 at 10:01 AM.

21st November 2019, 09:56 AM	#24
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles July Co-Pither, August TLA & Co-Pither Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 52,613	Originally Posted by plague311 It's not up to anyone else to tell me how I should use my own brain. I order you not to think about hippopotamuses.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

21st November 2019, 10:01 AM	#25
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 7,082	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey I order you not to think about hippopotamuses. Did you get that thing I sent you?
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

21st November 2019, 10:02 AM	#26
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles July Co-Pither, August TLA & Co-Pither Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 52,613	Originally Posted by plague311 Did you get that thing I sent you? Ha ha! Reference!
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

21st November 2019, 10:09 AM	#27
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 23,243	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle That is plenty to class it as a drug though and as such should only be used under the care of a doctor. Anyone who uses caffeine clearly is a drug user, and you have made your stance on that clear. I DON'T drink coffee, energy drinks or take caffeine. I think it probably is better for people not to. But I am not a Doctor and I don't or desire to make decisions for others. Admittedly, I have less of a personal issue with their consumption as I don't see a negative cognitive effect. If anything, it seems as if people consume caffeine more for an energy boost.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

21st November 2019, 10:11 AM	#28
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 23,243	Originally Posted by 3point14 Are you saying that anything that may have lasting effects on one's health are, de facto, things one should not do? Yeah. Particularly when it degrades brain functions. But people are going to do what they are going to do.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

21st November 2019, 10:24 AM	#29
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 23,243	Originally Posted by plague311 I'm not contesting that it has an effect. I'm contesting it's a waste of one's mental faculties. For some of us, escaping ones mental faculties is the entire goal. I have an extremely, extremely active brain. Smoking pot is one of the few things that gets it to settle down. It's not up to anyone else to tell me how I should use my own brain. ETA: Also, drugs affect people in entirely different ways. Your article might be relevant to some people, but not all. ETA ETA: If you follow the link in that article to the finished product, you'll notice they added a massive qualifier: I don't disagree with any of that. I have seen both high functioning canabis users and alcoholics. Some individuals seem less or more affected than others. I grant you that. I have been drunk and stoned in my life. Neither would I describe as positive and in neither case would I say my cognitive functions were enhanced. I think I too have an "active brain". I can't imagine wanting to slow it down. But hey, that's me. That said, I've personally seen canabis destroy people's lives. I'm not telling anyone how to live their lives. I also do not support the government telling them either.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

21st November 2019, 10:25 AM	#30
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 7,082	Originally Posted by acbytesla I DON'T drink coffee, energy drinks or take caffeine. I think it probably is better for people not to. But I am not a Doctor and I don't or desire to make decisions for others. Admittedly, I have less of a personal issue with their consumption as I don't see a negative cognitive effect. If anything, it seems as if people consume caffeine more for an energy boost. Quote: ...at high doses, there is an increase in tense arousal, including anxiety, nervousness, jitteriness. You probably can't "see negative cognitive effect(s)" in people that smoke pot either. In fact, I'd bet you interact with people that smoke weed all of the time with absolutely no clue that they do. You read something, it confirmed your bias, and now you're repeating it. As wrong as it is.
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

21st November 2019, 10:29 AM	#31
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 7,082	Originally Posted by acbytesla But hey, that's me. That said, I've personally seen canabis destroy people's lives. I'm not going to address your other statements, because I find them to be anecdotal. You appear, to me, to be applying your anecdotal experiences to others. Which is fine, but I'm genuinely curious about this statement. How has cannabis destroyed people's lives?
	__________________ "Circumcision and death threats go together like milk and cookies." - William Parcher “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss Last edited by plague311; 21st November 2019 at 10:32 AM.

21st November 2019, 10:32 AM	#32
Hercules56 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 1,928	Legalize? Not yet. Decriminalize? End all prosecutions? Allow research and interstate commerce? Absolutely.

21st November 2019, 10:39 AM	#33
BStrong Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: San Francisco Posts: 12,590	Originally Posted by Ranb House Judiciary Committee approves landmark marijuana legalization bill. https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...alization-bill Who doesn't like this? Link to the bill; https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-...bill/2227/text Ranb You know and I know that the only argument at the federal level will be the price of the tax stamp. There's simply too much money for the feds to not want their piece of it.
	__________________ Music is what feelings sound like "Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus

21st November 2019, 10:44 AM	#34
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 18,737	Originally Posted by acbytesla Yeah. Particularly when it degrades brain functions. But people are going to do what they are going to do. Most sport, played at a high level, have a detrimental effect on one's future health. Running, at any level, can absolutely knacker one's knees and actually induce chemical dependency. I don't think 'may cause health problems in future' is in any way a reasonable standard.
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 18,737	__________________ Up the River! Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]

21st November 2019, 10:45 AM	#35
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 23,243	Originally Posted by plague311 I'm not going to address your other statements, because I find them to be anecdotal. You appear, to me, to be applying your anecdotal experiences to others. Which is fine, but I'm genuinely curious about this statement. How has cannabis destroyed people's lives? I'm from a family of 9 children. I'm next to the youngest. Every single sibling is a regular even obsessive canabis user. And I've personally seen a decline in their mental and motor functions. I saw highly motivated individuals lose their motivation almost entirely. I've seen friends experience the same result. Can it all be attributed to cannabis use? Who's to say? I'm not sure how to eliminate the other variables. .
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .