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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , marijuana legalization

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Old 22nd November 2019, 11:27 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Being "frustrated" by others is a regular experience for me. But I also know that we may not be the "Captain of our own ship". That free will may be an illusion and all of us are simply the product of forces that we do not control. Is being "frustrated" a judgment or a reaction? It's certainly not the result of contemplation.
I don't know what this word salad is designed to mean, or why you're saying it here.

Let me clear this up, you specifically named a group of people (drug users) and labeled them, specifically, as frustrating. That is a judgement on a group of people.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 11:28 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by BStrong
They wouldn't "lose asset forfeiture.
Could you provide some evidence for this? Your unevidenced explanation simply doesn't make sense.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 11:29 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Could you provide some evidence for this? Your unevidenced explanation simply doesn't make sense.
They would still acquire assets with regards to marijuana just like they can acquire your assets if you're drinking and driving. I believe that's what is being said.

Just because weed would be legal doesn't mean there are absolutely no situations where it can be used illegally. For instance, drinking and driving.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 11:34 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
They would still acquire assets with regards to marijuana just like they can acquire your assets if you're drinking and driving. I believe that's what is being said.
Are you claiming that the illegal marijuana industry is going to continue at the same level as it exists now and that the legal industry only provides additional revenue? Or are you claiming the Feds will seize the legal industry too?
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Old 22nd November 2019, 11:51 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by rockysmith76 View Post
ban it everywhere
Might as well pass a law outlawing bad weather.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 11:55 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I don't know what this word salad is designed to mean, or why you're saying it here.

Let me clear this up, you specifically named a group of people (drug users) and labeled them, specifically, as frustrating. That is a judgement on a group of people.
Labeling drug users as drug users is frustrating?

I can understand that.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 11:58 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Labeling drug users as drug users is frustrating?

I can understand that.
Uhm, no. You called out a group of people that you said you weren't going to judge and then judged them as frustrating. I didn't think my phrasing was confusing, I apologize.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 12:00 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Are you claiming that the illegal marijuana industry is going to continue at the same level as it exists now
Absolutely not. The regular market will be half priced compared to the black market. I didn't mean to give that impression.

Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Or are you claiming the Feds will seize the legal industry too?
I was just saying that seizure for legal weed will still happen in the way it happens for others things that are legal, but used illegally. Guns are seized, despite them being legal. Cars are seized from drunken drivers, despite cars being legal, etc. So seizures wouldn't go away entirely, just at a much lower rate. However, the feds would still make heaps of money through taxation.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 12:07 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Are you claiming that the illegal marijuana industry is going to continue at the same level as it exists now and that the legal industry only provides additional revenue? Or are you claiming the Feds will seize the legal industry too?
https://www.latimes.com/california/s...grows-seizures

By PATRICK MCGREEVYSTAFF WRITER

NOV. 4, 2019 12:42 PM


SACRAMENTO — Three years after Californians decided to legalize and license marijuana farms, state law enforcement raids this year seized nearly 1 million pot plants from illicit grows, a jump from last year highlighting that the black market remains a persistent problem.

The just-concluded growing season saw the state’s main enforcement program conduct 345 raids of illegal grow sites throughout California and the eradication of 953,459 marijuana plants, up from 254 raids last year that seized 614,267 pot plants, state Atty. Gen. Xavier Becerra said Monday.

Law enforcement agencies working together in the Campaign Against Marijuana Planting program arrested 148 people and seized 168 weapons during this year’s raids, up from 52 arrests and 100 firearms confiscated during last year’s growing season.

“Illegal cannabis grows are devastating our communities,” Becerra said. “Criminals who disregard life, poison our waters, damage our public lands, and weaponize the illegal cannabis black market will be brought to justice.”

Growing marijuana was legalized by Proposition 64, which was approved by California voters in 2016. State residents 21 years and older could immediately grow up to six plants for personal use, while larger farms were required to get a state license starting Jan. 1, 2018, pay taxes and license fees and track every plant harvested and sent to pot shops.

But illegal pot farms have continued operating — California is the largest supplier of marijuana to the rest of the country, yet it is illegal to sell cannabis outside the state from licensed California farms. A new study by the research group New Frontier Data estimates that California produces 58% of the cannabis grown in the United States.


Becerra said the black market persists in part because criminal growers can sell marijuana more cheaply than licensed growers because they don’t pay fees and taxes, or meet the costly environmental standards, that are required of licensed cultivators.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 12:08 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Absolutely not. The regular market will be half priced compared to the black market. I didn't mean to give that impression.
Actually, I realized you were helping to explain someone else's point and didn't necessarily share it yourself.


Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I was just saying that seizure for legal weed will still happen in the way it happens for others things that are legal, but used illegally. Guns are seized, despite them being legal. Cars are seized from drunken drivers, despite cars being legal, etc. So seizures wouldn't go away entirely, just at a much lower rate. However, the feds would still make heaps of money through taxation.
So between the two points you made, which I agree with, that legal pot will cost less than illegal pot and that it will lead to a lower rate of asset forfeiture, it is not automatically obvious that the increase taxes will make up for lost seizures. So we really can't assume the Feds are going to change their minds about legality any time soon based on increased revenue, which was the point at issue.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 12:14 PM   #131
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@BStrong. You're citing a current example. In case you hadn't noticed, pot is still illegal in most of the country (your article points that out).

Let me give you a hint: To make your case, you have to show how much of current asset forfeiture is due to illegal pot. If that number is currently lower than what would be projected to come in from taxes on legal pot than you have made your case. If not, you may still be able to make your case by coming up with a reasonable reason why asset seizures related to pot will continue at some rate after pot is legal (and legal means everywhere). That second step could be accomplished by citing our experience with black market for highly taxed products like cigarettes and liquor.


Citing California right now is meaningless. It could be California has made itself more attractive to illegal pot farms because the presence of legal ones makes it easier to hide the illegal ones. Do you really think the illegal pot sector is going to grow due to legalization?

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Old 22nd November 2019, 12:26 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Absolutely not. The regular market will be half priced compared to the black market. I didn't mean to give that impression.



I was just saying that seizure for legal weed will still happen in the way it happens for others things that are legal, but used illegally. Guns are seized, despite them being legal. Cars are seized from drunken drivers, despite cars being legal, etc. So seizures wouldn't go away entirely, just at a much lower rate. However, the feds would still make heaps of money through taxation.

It isn't now. Street weed is way less than in stores here in Cali. I don't see why that would change. The state and city keep adding regulations to the dispensaries. It's amazing they are able to keep prices down as much as they have. I can get street weed for half of the dispensary or less if I want.

Last I checked 90% of all weed sales in the area are black market.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 12:30 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
It isn't now. Street weed is way less than in stores here in Cali. I don't see why that would change.
Evidence? I actually posted evidence with my claim if you'd like to go back and read it.

Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
The state and city keep adding regulations to the dispensaries.
Pretty standard as a new product and market for the product emerges. They're still adding regulations to over the counter vitamins and they've been out for decades.

Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
It's amazing they are able to keep prices down as much as they have. I can get street weed for half of the dispensary or less if I want.

Last I checked 90% of all weed sales in the area are black market.
Where did you check? With whom? I live in North Dakota, an hour away from the Canada border, and I can tell you the prices aren't even close. It's half the street cost when you buy it in the store. I don't live in California though.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 12:31 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
@BStrong. You're citing a current example. In case you hadn't noticed, pot is still illegal in most of the country (your article points that out).



Let me give you a hint: To make your case, you have to show how much of current asset forfeiture is due to illegal pot. If that number is currently lower than what would be projected to come in from taxes on legal pot than you have made your case. If not, you may still be able to make your case by coming up with a reasonable reason why asset seizures related to pot will continue at some rate after pot is legal (and legal means everywhere). That second step could be accomplished by citing our experience with black market for highly taxed products like cigarettes and liquor.
I've cited evidence of the amount of sales/excise tax that is currently being paid on the growing/selling of legal marijuana.

I've repeatedly explained that legalized marijuana at the federal level does not preclude the feds from prosecuting/convicting and seizing the assets of individuals involved in marijuana trafficking that do not comply with whatever licensing and taxation scheme is mandated by a federal statute.

In my post above, as current as it can get, there are solid numbers on the number of individuals arrested, firearms and marijuana seized and number from the previous years after legalization.

If you can explain why you believe that marijuana legalization precludes enforcement and asset forfeiture against unlicensed operations I'd be glad to listen but it would be advantageous to see evidence that backs your opinion.

So far I'm the one with the links and numbers.

One edit deserves another -

https://www.nwnewsnetwork.org/post/i...a-legalization

Marijuana may be legal in Washington and Oregon, but police continue to bust illegal marijuana operations that are not licensed by the state.

The latest numbers from the Washington State Patrol show that 89 illegal marijuana growing operations were shut down in Washington over the past year. Some were indoor grows, most were outdoor.

In total they seized 24,000 marijuana plants, more than 100 weapons and made more than 100 arrests. The total value of assets seized was nearly $2 million.

This represents a big jump from 2016 except in one category—the number of plants seized. That number is down significantly this year. The State Patrol said that’s because federal funding for marijuana eradication on public lands was cut. Usually those grows are identified by spotters up in an airplane or helicopter.

In recent months, U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions has expressed concern about black market marijuana operations in states like Washington and Oregon where regulated pot is legal. But so far, the Justice Department has not intervened.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 12:32 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
@BStrong. You're citing a current example. In case you hadn't noticed, pot is still illegal in most of the country (your article points that out).

Let me give you a hint: To make your case, you have to show how much of current asset forfeiture is due to illegal pot. If that number is currently lower than what would be projected to come in from taxes on legal pot than you have made your case. If not, you may still be able to make your case by coming up with a reasonable reason why asset seizures related to pot will continue at some rate after pot is legal (and legal means everywhere). That second step could be accomplished by citing our experience with black market for highly taxed products like cigarettes and liquor.


Citing California right now is meaningless. It could be California has made itself more attractive to illegal pot farms because the presence of legal ones makes it easier to hide the illegal ones. Do you really think the illegal pot sector is going to grow due to legalization?
This!

I've been thinking about this for a while. I frequently drive by "hemp" farms in Oregon. They look exactly like regular Cannabis plants. What's to stop a farmer from mixing in some actual high THC cannabis?
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Old 22nd November 2019, 12:53 PM   #136
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Interested parties may want to read this

https://pdxscholar.library.pdx.edu/c...en_access_etds

Effects of Regulation Intensity on Marijuana Black Market After
Legalization


Abstract

Since 2012, many states and Canada have legalized the use and sale of recreational marijuana.

One of the expected benefits of the legalization is that the establishment of a legal cannabis market would eliminate the black market which has been the main form of marijuana trade for decades. Even though legal options are available for marijuana producers and consumers, the black market is still thriving in states where recreational marijuana has been legalized.

The reasons behind the persistence of the marijuana black market are complex. One of the main arguments is that the legalized states have failed to establish a regulatory framework which effectively keeps both producers and consumers in the legal market. Instead, strict regulations and high cost of compliance have created an environment in favor of big players while driving small-scale businesses into the black market and a quasi-experimental time series analysis of National Incident-Based Reporting System (NIBRS) data regarding marijuana offenses in Colorado and Washington between 2014 and 2017.

The qualitative analysis of news reports reveals that regulation is one of the main reasons that people stay in the illicit market. The comparison of marijuana crime trends in Colorado and Washington shows mixed findings. While marijuana offense rates in Colorado largely remained steady over the years, those in Washington increased.


It seems to me that even if the feds legalized marijuana and collected taxes on the growth and sale there would still be plenty of opportunities for state and federal AF.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 01:07 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
This!

I've been thinking about this for a while. I frequently drive by "hemp" farms in Oregon. They look exactly like regular Cannabis plants. What's to stop a farmer from mixing in some actual high THC cannabis?
Nothing except reality. Washington and Oregon have so much legal marijuana that they can't sell it fast enough. While illegal sales still exist, they're a hundred times less profitable given that a) illegal marijuana simply doesn't have the value it used to in states that have legalized and b) the risk of being caught still exists with similar penalties for illegal growing and selling.

If someone wants to deal illegal marijuana where it's otherwise legal, the smartest move is probably to buy it legally and then mark it up for teenagers and other suckers.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 01:27 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Nothing except reality. Washington and Oregon have so much legal marijuana that they can't sell it fast enough. While illegal sales still exist, they're a hundred times less profitable given that a) illegal marijuana simply doesn't have the value it used to in states that have legalized and b) the risk of being caught still exists with similar penalties for illegal growing and selling.

If someone wants to deal illegal marijuana where it's otherwise legal, the smartest move is probably to buy it legally and then mark it up for teenagers and other suckers.
I guess I'm not really familiar with the market. I was just under the impression that in both states Cannabis was heavily taxed and that it could still be sold profitably outside of a store. Its just something that I think about when I pass those fields.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 01:36 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I guess I'm not really familiar with the market. I was just under the impression that in both states Cannabis was heavily taxed and that it could still be sold profitably outside of a store. Its just something that I think about when I pass those fields.
Yes, I can tell that you're not very educated on this subject. I would suggest - especially given your somewhat strong opinions about marijuana - that you might go into a store that sells the evil weed and have a chat about products and prices; unless it's a particularly busy time, an employee will probably be happy to do so. It's perfectly safe, nobody will force you to use drugs, and you won't get high from just being in proximity to dank nugs.

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Old 22nd November 2019, 01:41 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Yes, I can tell that you're not very educated on this subject. I would suggest - especially given your somewhat strong opinions about marijuana - that you might go into a store that sells marijuana and have a chat about products and prices; unless it's a particularly busy time, an employee will probably be happy to do so. It's perfectly safe, nobody will force you to use drugs, and you won't get high from just being in proximity to dank nugs.
You think that will change my mind about people taking drugs? FYI: My neighbor who lives directly across the street owns and operates a store that sells cannabis.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 01:47 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You think that will change my mind about people taking drugs? FYI: My neighbor who lives directly across the street owns and operates a store that sells cannabis.
There's nothing that will change your mind, and I think that's the point. No matter what is presented your mind is already made up, there's nothing new that will change it.

Which, as has been pointed out, is the polar opposite of skepticism.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 01:54 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You think that will change my mind about people taking drugs? FYI: My neighbor who lives directly across the street owns and operates a store that sells cannabis.
I don't know what will change your mind, if it needs to be changed. I think what a store visit might do - especially if you approach it openly - is provide you with some information about marijuana prices and perhaps some insights into the people who use that particular store (how often they come in, why they select particular products, etc.).

Again, this just seems like a natural thing to do for anyone who has strong opinions about something and who is smart enough to be curious. The stores are all over the place, open to the public (21+ years old), and, again, are perfectly safe.

I'd also suggest buying an edible (something simple, a single serving/dose) while you're there and give it a try some weekend evening when you're not doing anything in a particular...but you obviously don't seem open to that.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 02:04 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
I don't know what will change your mind, if it needs to be changed. I think what a store visit might do - especially if you approach it openly - is provide you with some information about marijuana prices and perhaps some insights into the people who use that particular store (how often they come in, why they select particular products, etc.).

Again, this just seems like a natural thing to do for anyone who has strong opinions about something and who is smart enough to be curious. The stores are all over the place, open to the public (21+ years old), and, again, are perfectly safe.

I'd also suggest buying an edible (something simple, a single serving/dose) while you're there and give it a try some weekend evening when you're not doing anything in a particular...but you obviously don't seem open to that.
I don't think a store visit asking cannabis pushers about the effects of cannabis use should be used to change one's mind about the effects of drugs. Or maybe you can't see the bias there? And I've been to my neighbor's store.

What is THC? It's a drug. Specifically designed to affect brain chemistry. Question asked and answered.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 02:08 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't think a store visit asking cannabis pushers about the effects of cannabis use should be used to change one's mind about the effects of drugs. Or maybe you can't see the bias there? And I've been to my neighbor's store.

What is THC? It's a drug. Specifically designed to affect brain chemistry. Question asked and answered.
Cool. Good for you.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 02:12 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't think a store visit asking cannabis pushers about the effects of cannabis...
So you never, ever ask questions while you're shopping for stuff in a store? You never ask a salesman when buying a vehicle? Never ask a technician when you're buying a computer?

Logic!
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Old 22nd November 2019, 02:25 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
There's nothing that will change your mind, and I think that's the point. No matter what is presented your mind is already made up, there's nothing new that will change it.

Which, as has been pointed out, is the polar opposite of skepticism.
Should I just lay back in a cloud of smoke and get stoned then? Is that the answer?

My personal belief is that taking drugs whether it is alcohol, nocotine, cannabis, cocaine, ecstacy, meth, lsd or opiates is inherently dangerous. Not that some, maybe even most people can take, even enjoy them and not suffer negative effects. But you cannot tell ahead of time who is going to like that drug too much. Who can take it and then leave it and who becomes obsessed and the drug takes over their lives.

Cannabis is very likely one of the least worrisome drug. That said, I'm not interested in tempting fate. This is why abstain from drugs of any kind. They scare the hell out of me.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 02:27 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
So you never, ever ask questions while you're shopping for stuff in a store? You never ask a salesman when buying a vehicle? Never ask a technician when you're buying a computer?

Logic!
Sure, but I don't take the word of a salesman as Gospel.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 03:14 PM   #148
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As you know weed is legal in all of Canada now ... I live down town in a small city, and hang out with younger crowd, percentage wise I know maybe 3 people who do NOT use weed occasionally or daily.

The legalization has done nothing except (and I think VERY importantly) remove jail time and heavy fines out of the equation.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 03:41 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
As you know weed is legal in all of Canada now ... I live down town in a small city, and hang out with younger crowd, percentage wise I know maybe 3 people who do NOT use weed occasionally or daily.

The legalization has done nothing except (and I think VERY importantly) remove jail time and heavy fines out of the equation.
That probably has as much to do with the people you associate with then anything. It also "seems" to suggest that the legalization has led to increased use.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 03:44 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
That probably has as much to do with the people you associate with then anything. It also "seems" to suggest that the legalization has led to increased use.
Hello goose, may I introduce you to this gander?
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Old 22nd November 2019, 03:50 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
My personal belief is that taking drugs whether it is alcohol, nocotine, cannabis, cocaine, ecstacy, meth, lsd or opiates is inherently dangerous.
Are rock climbing and skydiving not?

I mean, you're free to whatever opinion you want to have, but earlier in the threat you were praising "natural" sources of stimulation like climbing and skydiving. I like climbing, too, but it's (IMO) ridiculous to pretend like it's less dangerous than ingesting THC (except maybe on an artificial wall where you can control pretty much everything). Part of the enjoyment from those activities (along with roller coasters and the like) specifically comes from the over-stimulation associated with the threat of death. Hell, climbers die every year. I'm with you on the hard drugs being dangerous, but to criticize pot as inherently dangerous and praise potentially deadly activities as better alternatives because they're more "natural" is a damn interesting take.

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Old 22nd November 2019, 03:55 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by ArchSas View Post
Are rock climbing and skydiving not?

I mean, you're free to whatever opinion you want to have, but earlier in the threat you were praising "natural" sources of stimulation like climbing and skydiving. I like climbing, too, but it's (IMO) ridiculous to pretend like it's less dangerous than ingesting THC (except maybe on an artificial wall where you can control pretty much everything). Part of the enjoyment from those activities (along with roller coasters and the like) specifically comes from the over-stimulation associated with the threat of death. Hell, climbers die every year. I'm with you on the hard drugs being dangerous, but to criticize pot as inherently dangerous and praise potentially deadly activities as better alternatives because they're more "natural" is a damn interesting take.
I'd say "absurd" and rooted in the acceptance of around 100 years of anti-marijuana nonsense.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 03:58 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't think a store visit asking cannabis pushers about the effects of cannabis use should be used to change one's mind about the effects of drugs. Or maybe you can't see the bias there? And I've been to my neighbor's store.

What is THC? It's a drug. Specifically designed to affect brain chemistry. Question asked and answered.
And, sometimes change in brain chemistry is necessary. I've used pot on and off since the late 60's. It was never a big deal in my life and I went long periods of not using, even years between.

Now, I use it daily by ingesting it. Living in California, rurally, I never have to buy it, and make my own products. Since I began in the past couple of years, I have:

Eliminated 4 different scrips for high blood pressure.
Reduced the amount of pain medicine I take for a battered spine.
Sleep better.
Get more done.

"Specifically designed to affect brain chemistry".

Yep, and I am grateful for that.

You aren't really asking and answering a question. You are stating a fact, giving it negative innuendo.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 04:03 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Hello goose, may I introduce you to this gander?
You hang around with Democrats, you're not going to know many Republicans. I use to play a lot of golf. Too much. I even at one time belonged to a Country Club. I was surrounded by Republicans who didn't have a clue that I was a Democrat. On the same note, you hang around with people who smoke pot, the fewer the people you know that don't. His impression was anecdotal was it not?

I've admitted that my opinions have been informed by my experiences and this is imperfect data. I'm not saying that Ron was wrong but there was maybe a variable he wasn't accounting for.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 04:15 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You hang around with Democrats, you're not going to know many Republicans. I use to play a lot of golf. Too much. I even at one time belonged to a Country Club. I was surrounded by Republicans who didn't have a clue that I was a Democrat. On the same note, you hang around with people who smoke pot, the fewer the people you know that don't. His impression was anecdotal was it not?

I've admitted that my opinions have been informed by my experiences and this is imperfect data. I'm not saying that Ron was wrong but there was maybe a variable he wasn't accounting for.
Yes, you've admitted that your opinions are based on anecdotes and ignorance. Kudos. Once you further acknowledge that the fear you say you have about marijuana is irrational, you might be a bit less strident about your uninformed opinions.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 04:25 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by ArchSas View Post
Are rock climbing and skydiving not?

I mean, you're free to whatever opinion you want to have, but earlier in the threat you were praising "natural" sources of stimulation like climbing and skydiving. I like climbing, too, but it's (IMO) ridiculous to pretend like it's less dangerous than ingesting THC (except maybe on an artificial wall where you can control pretty much everything). Part of the enjoyment from those activities (along with roller coasters and the like) specifically comes from the over-stimulation associated with the threat of death. Hell, climbers die every year. I'm with you on the hard drugs being dangerous, but to criticize pot as inherently dangerous and praise potentially deadly activities as better alternatives because they're more "natural" is a damn interesting take.
Your point is fair. I just have one hell of a lot of very negative experiences associated with relatives/friends and drugs including cannabis. I've been to my share of funerals as a result of friend's overdosing.

I don't take drugs unless they are prescribed by a doctor and even then I'm extremely reluctant. I'll take a certain amount of pain over possible addiction.

Let me tell you a boring story. About ten years ago I had minor surgery and was prescribed oxycodone for post surgical pain. I tried not to take any of the prescription, but at one point the pain became unbearable so I took it. Whoah! That stuff is amazing. I loved it. And after I got about halfway through my prescription I threw it away. That stuff is dangerous.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 04:28 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Yes, you've admitted that your opinions are based on anecdotes and ignorance. Kudos. Once you further acknowledge that the fear you say you have about marijuana is irrational, you might be a bit less strident about your uninformed opinions.
Yeah, you watch 8 brothers and sisters morph into morons who care more about getting high than anything else and get back to me.
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Old 22nd November 2019, 04:40 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
And, sometimes change in brain chemistry is necessary. I've used pot on and off since the late 60's. It was never a big deal in my life and I went long periods of not using, even years between.

Now, I use it daily by ingesting it. Living in California, rurally, I never have to buy it, and make my own products. Since I began in the past couple of years, I have:

Eliminated 4 different scrips for high blood pressure.
Reduced the amount of pain medicine I take for a battered spine.
Sleep better.
Get more done.

"Specifically designed to affect brain chemistry".

Yep, and I am grateful for that.

You aren't really asking and answering a question. You are stating a fact, giving it negative innuendo.
I'm not trying to say that certain drugs don't help some people. Cannabis for example seems to make a hell of a lot more sense than opioids for pain management. And I strongly support its use for medical purposes (I can't understand why anyone would oppose the use of an effective drug over a less effective addictive drug)
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Old 22nd November 2019, 04:40 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
But on a personal level, I hate drugs. Taking any drug including marijuana other than for medical purposes seems a waste of one's mental faculties. That said, I think that canabis should not be illegal and it's a waste of government resources to police it.
Including alcohol I assume?
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Old 22nd November 2019, 04:42 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Including alcohol I assume?
Yes.
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