MORE Act. Legal Weed?

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

you seem very sympathetic for an abstainer.

And?

I've never had drugs in my life, and I'm all for people doing whatever they want with their bodies, even if I disagree with some of their choices. So long as it doesn't impact me/others directly, have fun.

[3point14]

Originally Posted by Belz...

Ah, yes. The all-or-nothing logic.

There's nothing all or nothing about it. There's me investigationg a line of flawed logic.

Quote:

No one said that you shouldn't do anything that could ever potentially have negative effects. But you knew that.

You literally asked the question. It's in the post I was responding to:

Originally Posted by 3point14

Are you saying that anything that may have lasting effects on one's health are, de facto, things one should not do?

Originally Posted by Belz...

If one holds this and also that these things should not be illegal, how is that not a good opinion?

[rockysmith76]

Originally Posted by Belz...

And?

I've never had drugs in my life, and I'm all for people doing whatever they want with their bodies, even if I disagree with some of their choices. So long as it doesn't impact me/others directly, have fun.

another pretender

[plague311]

Originally Posted by Belz...

Well, this guy:

I didn't know calling out arguments that I found factually inaccurate was considered getting defensive, but I learn new things around here every single day.

Originally Posted by acbytesla

No he doesn't. And as much as I don't like marijuana, I know the consumption of alcohol is a far greater detriment to society than canabis use probably ever could be and it is legal.

I don't need to worry about it. Anything under a half ounce in North Dakota is a fine, and a shrug of the shoulders. I'm not going to jail for weed, but I did learn that people are called "abstainers".

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by 3point14

There's nothing all or nothing about it. There's me investigationg a line of flawed logic.

There's a difference between disagreeing with the parameters of an opinion, and that opinion's logic being broken. Just because one thinks that it's 'wrong' to mess up with your brain doesn't mean they think the potential harm of ******* walking around is just as bad. It doesn't follow. You either know it doesn't follow and weren't arguing in good faith, or think it does follow and have broken logic yourself.

Quote:

You literally asked the question. It's in the post I was responding to:

You should be more careful with the use of the word "literally", when you then quote me not saying that at all.

FYI, "These things" refered to taking drugs. You know, the topic of the thread.

[acbytesla]

Originally Posted by plague311

What exactly have I said that's disinformation? Just quote what I said, and a link proving me wrong. The only argument against you and your points I've made is that it's a waste of anyone's mental faculties. Which certainly hasn't been proven as I think it's truly opinion based. You made a blanket claim, I don't believe it's true (something you even said when you said "not everyone" in a previous post), and that's about it.

Anyone can look at only the ******* negative affects of any product ever and say it's terrible. It's actually pretty god damned easy to do.

As far as being too optimistic, you can certainly believe that. The speed of recreational legalization tends to favor my outlook, but we'll see.



If seeing clearly means I view the world like you I'd rather be the dirtiest son of a bitch in the world.

I've been in jail, and worse and I've still come out better than most.

I think you're clearly rationizing the use of a drug because you like it.

I have seen far too many people under the influence of canabis to not believe that it has negative effects on cognition at least while under the immediate influence. For example, I play a lot of chess. I also have a friend of mine who also plays a lot of chess. I'm a good player. He's a great player. The only time I ever seem to beat him is when he's been smoking. Now it wouldn't surprise me that light use of the drug might help some people do even better. I've read some anecdotal evidence that some people drive better having had one glass of wine, but after that, their motor skills and cognitive abilities decline rapidly.

I do believe it is the waste of one's mental faculties. Maybe you're so smart you can afford to lose a lot of them. Maybe I'm not that clever and I need to keep my mind as sharp as it can be.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by plague311

I didn't know calling out arguments that I found factually inaccurate was considered getting defensive, but I learn new things around here every single day.

And I didn't know flipping out over a joke was considered calling out factually inaccurate arguments.

What part of "LoL Jesus ******* Christ, what a ******** thing to say." was calling out counter-factual elements of acbytesla's post?

[3point14]

Originally Posted by Belz...

There's a difference between disagreeing with the parameters of an opinion, and that opinion's logic being broken. Just because one thinks that it's 'wrong' to mess up with your brain doesn't mean they think the potential harm of ******* walking around is just as bad. It doesn't follow. You either know it doesn't follow and weren't arguing in good faith, or think it does follow and have broken logic yourself.



You should be more careful with the use of the word "literally", when you then quote me not saying that at all.

FYI, "These things" refered to taking drugs. You know, the topic of the thread.

Oh, I see.

I thought you were referring to those things in the post you were actually quoting. Silly me, how could I possibly have been mistaken...

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I also have a friend of mind who also plays a lot of chess.

Nice.

[plague311]

I've noticed that most people with negative views, or assume that there are only negative affects of marijuana, either haven't done it before at all, or haven't done it for 20+ years.

It's like me giving my opinion on an 8 track having never heard music played on one or don't compare it to the sound of a current mp3.

[3point14]

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I think you're clearly rationizing the use of a drug because you like it.

I have seen far too many people under the influence of canabis to not believe that it has negative effects on cognition

(the rest of the post snipped)

Ever heard of statistics? Sampling? Self selecting samples? Anecdotes?

I may have mentioned it before, but you really, really need a stats course.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by 3point14

Oh, I see.

I thought you were referring to those things in the post you were actually quoting. Silly me, how could I possibly have been mistaken...

Why are you so damned adversarial here? I was addressing acbytesla's post and your response to it. So you thought I meant something else. Why is it the end of the world, suddenly?

[acbytesla]

Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC

He's basically trolling at this point, you're better off ignoring him. I have seen little, if any, genuine discord in his 400 posts. Most are attention grabbers to rile people up.

That's what Rocky does. If ever there was a definition of trolling, Rocky's posts would be prime examples.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by plague311

I've noticed that most people with negative views, or assume that there are only negative affects of marijuana, either haven't done it before at all, or haven't done it for 20+ years.

One could just as well say that the people with positive views are the ones doing too much of it. It's an ad hominem either way.

Personally I haven't seen any evidence of long-term damage caused by pot. I know it impairs judgment just like alcohol does for a short while after use, but that's it. That's why I think it's silly to make it illegal. It doesn't mean I agree with its use, just like I don't agree with people getting drunk even though it's their decision and I won't interfere so long as it's not putting anyone at risk.

[plague311]

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I think you're clearly rationizing the use of a drug because you like it.

I must have phrased something strangely in my previous post. I don't have to "rationize" anything to anyone. I'm perfectly comfortable in my life, my decisions, and where I'm at. "Rationizing" means that I feel what I'm doing is wrong. Kind of tough for me to agree with considering medical reviews are showing the positives of weed outweigh the negatives. It's called "progress"

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I have seen far too many people under the influence of canabis to not believe that it has negative effects on cognition at least while under the immediate influence.

Dunno what this has to do with me, but ok. Thanks.

Originally Posted by acbytesla

For example, I play a lot of chess. I also have a friend of mind who also plays a lot of chess. I'm a good player. He's a great player. The only time I ever seem to beat him is when he's been smoking.

Yes, I get it. More random ass stories from you about your personal experiences that have exactly nothing to do with anything, but ok. Now I get one. I have a friend that was in Vietnam. He couldn't get help from anywhere, and he finally found someone that could get him some weed. He took it to his lake cabin and then informed that person that after smoking it was the first time in 10 years he hadn't gone "back to a foxhole".

So great, your friend sucks at chess when he's stoned. And? You seem to keep telling me these stories and I seem to continue to not care about your anecdotal tales.

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Now it wouldn't surprise me that light use of the drug might help some people do even better. I've read some anecdotal evidence that some people drive better having had one glass of wine, but after that, their motor skills and cognitive abilities decline rapidly.

k.

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I do believe it is the waste of one's mental faculties. Maybe you're so smart you can afford to lose a lot of them. Maybe I'm not that clever and I need to keep my mind as sharp as it can be.

[3point14]

Originally Posted by Belz...

Why are you so damned adversarial here? I was addressing acbytesla's post and your response to it. So you thought I meant something else. Why is it the end of the world, suddenly?

It's not the end of the world. I am frustrated by what I see as your poor communication and your blaming me for it afterwards.

When I am less frustrated I shall go back and read, for my own satisfaction, to discover which of us was communicating poorly*, but, at the moment, the frustration is caused by my perception that you were communicating badly and blaming me for it.

Whether or not I have cause remains to be seen. Ho hum.





*The clever money is on 'both of them', but not all the polls have come in

[acbytesla]

Originally Posted by rockysmith76

you seem very sympathetic for an abstainer.

I wouldn't call it sympathy. I'd just say that imprisoning people for drug use has been an abject failure. It doesn't work. It's costly, a waste of time and is ineffective.

[plague311]

Originally Posted by Belz...

And I didn't know flipping out over a joke was considered calling out factually inaccurate arguments.

What part of "LoL Jesus ******* Christ, what a ******** thing to say." was calling out counter-factual elements of acbytesla's post?

I'm sorry. There appears to be some more confusion. You seem to be thinking I was trying to correct his argument or his logic. As I said, I was just calling it out as ********. I hope that helps. Let me know if I can help further.

[3point14]

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I wouldn't call it sympathy. I'd just say that imprisoning people for drug use has been an abject failure. It doesn't work. It's costly, a waste of time and is ineffective.

Amen.

https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/m...lead_large.png

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by 3point14

It's not the end of the world.

Good. I was worried, for a moment.

Quote:

I am frustrated by what I see as your poor communication and your blaming me for it afterwards.

Wait a second. First of all I'll be the first to admit that I'm unclear with some regularity. But I never blamed you for the misunderstanding. I don't know where you're getting that from.

But even if your interpretation of my meaning was correct, it need not have been literal. "I see it as a moral imperative to avoid potentially harmful acts" may sound all-encompassing but nobody on the planet would utter that sentence and mean it literally. Obviously it's a general principle that applies under a host of other, unspoken premises, and humans often shorthand those or omit them entirely, thinking that they are obvious enough for those they address.

Alas, on the internet, we're at the point where we must go back to the Big Bang for every story we tell, etc.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by plague311

I'm sorry.

Don't be.

Quote:

You seem to be thinking I was trying to correct his argument or his logic.

Well, yeah. You said this:

Originally Posted by plague311

I didn't know calling out arguments that I found factually inaccurate was considered getting defensive, but I learn new things around here every single day.

So you'll understand that this is what you meant you were doing.

Quote:

As I said, I was just calling it out as ********.

Incorrect. That's not what you said. See above.

[acbytesla]

Originally Posted by Belz...

Nice.

Ooops. The problem with spellcheck. It doesn't correct you when your typo spells another word. I corrected it.

Thanks.

But that typo seemed appropriate.

[Ron Swanson]

I'm unsubscribing from tis thread because of the (I hate "drugs") idiots posting ... where alcohol and caffeine is fine with them!

[DuvalHMFIC]

^^^ I've been on the pro-pot side of this thread the entire time, but when did anyone say that? ACB has been adamant that he doesn't like anything, including caffeine. And pretty much everyone in here has mentioned that alcohol is worse than pot.

[plague311]

Originally Posted by Belz...

Don't be.



Well, yeah. You said this:



So you'll understand that this is what you meant you were doing.



Incorrect. That's not what you said. See above.

LoL ok. Whatever.

[plague311]

Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

I'm unsubscribing from tis thread because of the (I hate "drugs") idiots posting ... where alcohol and caffeine is fine with them!

Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC

^^^ I've been on the pro-pot side of this thread the entire time, but when did anyone say that? ACB has been adamant that he doesn't like anything, including caffeine. And pretty much everyone in here has mentioned that alcohol is worse than pot.

I have to agree with Duval here. As much as I disagree with the points being made in this thread, everyone has been consistent in their views.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by plague311

LoL ok. Whatever.

And again, typical final response by you. You can't even accept your own words, and you run away when they're pointed out to you.

Why not just say you misspoke or that you didn't intend that sentence to refer to that specific post of yours? Anything that shows that you have any sort of intention of discussing something honestly for once.

[plague311]

Originally Posted by Belz...

And again, typical final response by you. You can't even accept your own words, and you run away when they're pointed out to you.

Why not just say you misspoke or that you didn't intend that sentence to refer to that specific post of yours? Anything that shows that you have any sort of intention of discussing something honestly for once.

Because I obviously don't think I did. I never said I was making counter points. I said I was calling out his post for being ******** which is exactly what I see in your quoted post and response. It wasn't being defensive, it was just saying "that post is ********". I didn't feel the need or desire to say more.

Feel free, at any point in time, to not engage me if you feel that's what I do. That would be my reaction, but it just wasn't a battle I wanted to fight. I don't care that much about being right that I need someone else to admit to me they're wrong. Can we be done with this now or do you need me to apologize to you like last time? If so, I'm ******* sorry. Moving on.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by plague311

Because I obviously don't think I did. I never said I was making counter points. I said I was calling out his post for being ******** which is exactly what I see in your quoted post and response. It wasn't being defensive, it was just saying "that post is ********". I didn't feel the need or desire to say more.

Well, sorry for insisting on this, but you said that you were calling out arguments that are factually inaccurate. Would you not think that this implies you'd, you know, someone address their factual inaccuracy? Otherwise it's just screaming out in frustration, which doesn't seem to be calling out anything.

Quote:

Feel free, at any point in time, to not engage me if you feel that's what I do.

For some reason I always have an undying hope that we're going to have a fruitful conversation at some point. I guess I must have the impression that you're a smart fellow, deep down.

[varwoche]

Originally Posted by acbytesla

But that typo seemed appropriate.

Maybe to someone who just took a bong hit.

[acbytesla]

Originally Posted by plague311

I must have phrased something strangely in my previous post. I don't have to "rationize" anything to anyone. I'm perfectly comfortable in my life, my decisions, and where I'm at. "Rationizing" means that I feel what I'm doing is wrong. Kind of tough for me to agree with considering medical reviews are showing the positives of weed outweigh the negatives. It's called "progress"

And yet, here you are on a soapbox extolling the use of marijuana.

Originally Posted by plague311

Yes, I get it. More random ass stories from you about your personal experiences that have exactly nothing to do with anything, but ok. Now I get one. I have a friend that was in Vietnam. He couldn't get help from anywhere, and he finally found someone that could get him some weed. He took it to his lake cabin and then informed that person that after smoking it was the first time in 10 years he hadn't gone "back to a foxhole".

So great, your friend sucks at chess when he's stoned. And? You seem to keep telling me these stories and I seem to continue to not care about your anecdotal tales.

Sorry for having lived. Seems to me, personal experiences being around drugs is valuable to the conversation.

I didn't dismiss your anecdote. That seems to be a legitimate medication for dealing with PTSD. At what point have I ever suggested that I oppose its use for that? In fact, I've expressed that I think its medical uses need further exploration.

[plague311]

Originally Posted by Belz...

Well, sorry for insisting on this, but you said that you were calling out arguments that are factually inaccurate. Would you not think that this implies you'd, you know, someone address their factual inaccuracy? Otherwise it's just screaming out in frustration, which doesn't seem to be calling out anything.

Originally Posted by DuvalHMFIC

I think there's an old saying, "pot doesn't make people lazy, but plenty of lazy people sure do enjoy pot."

Originally Posted by acbytesla

That must explain why I think so many people are morons. You think?

Originally Posted by plague311

LoL Jesus ******* Christ, what a ******** thing to say.

I just called it out as ********. Nothing more, nothing less.

Originally Posted by Belz...

For some reason I always have an undying hope that we're going to have a fruitful conversation at some point. I guess I must have the impression that you're a smart fellow, deep down.

We're all wrong from time to time. The important thing is we learn from it.

[Belz...]

Originally Posted by plague311

I just called it out as ********. Nothing more, nothing less.

Ok, then. Could you explain why it's BS? So that at least we have some basis for discussion?

Quote:

We're all wrong from time to time. The important thing is we learn from it.

That sounds like you're telling me that having a reasoned discussion with you is impossible. I'm sure you didn't mean to say that.

[plague311]

Originally Posted by acbytesla

And yet, here you are on a soapbox extolling the use of marijuana.

My last statement about the treatment of PTSD was the only positive thing I've really said in this thread, of the many things I've said. If I'm wrong, I promise you I'll get called out. The majority of my posting here has been to run contrary to your claim that it's a waste of one's faculties. Which even you've said is an opinion. One we obviously disagree on.

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Sorry for having lived. Seems to me, personal experiences being around drugs is valuable to the conversation.

No need to apologize, but I don't see how any of your anecdotes have supported your statement that it's a waste. I've seen you call your family members, and others that use pot, stupid. I've seen you refer to them derogatorily, and I've seen you post some of the negative effects of marijuana. Anecdotes just don't appear to be relevant to me.

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I didn't dismiss your anecdote. That seems to be a legitimate medication for dealing with PTSD. At what point have I ever suggested that I oppose its use for that? In fact, I've expressed that I think its medical uses need further exploration.

Which is great, we've found common ground. Yay for us! That being said, I posted it as an example of pot "wasting one's faculties" as being a goal, not a negative. For some, I dare say many, their mental status when stoned enables them to not only be productive, but feel better.

[plague311]

Originally Posted by Belz...

Ok, then. Could you explain why it's BS? So that at least we have some basis for discussion?

In the previous exchange, which was lengthy, we had a back and forth about how he (acbytesla) probably comes in contact with a myriad of people that are stoned and he has no idea they are. The implication that he thinks "so many people are morons" is because of weed is not one based in fact >> to me <<.

Originally Posted by Belz...

That sounds like you're telling me that having a reasoned discussion with you is impossible. I'm sure you didn't mean to say that.

That's pretty much where I was headed with it, but it was mostly a joke. I like to think in the 8ish years I've been around here people generally have gotten use to the fact that I'm an *******. It's just...part of my nature. That's why I advise people not to take me too seriously.

[acbytesla]

Originally Posted by plague311

No need to apologize, but I don't see how any of your anecdotes have supported your statement that it's a waste. I've seen you call your family members, and others that use pot, stupid. I've seen you refer to them derogatorily, and I've seen you post some of the negative effects of marijuana. Anecdotes just don't appear to be relevant to me.

They may not be relevant to you. It's difficult to discuss this without mentioning my impressions of people I know.

Let's just put it this way. I oppose the recreational use of all drugs.
It's not a stance on their legality. It's not a moral stance. It's a health stance. Its a communal productivity stance.
It's also a I don't want to have a conversation with someone who is "obviously" stoned or drunk stance.
It's an I don't want to bail you out of jail for DUI stance.
It's a I don't want to discuss how cool the universe is with someone who probably can't find their car stance.

This doesn't make a user a bad person. I don't hate them. I worry for them. I hope it doesn't ruin their lives. But I don't believe that it's a wise idea to experiment with drugs.

[plague311]

Originally Posted by acbytesla

They may not be relevant to you. It's difficult to discuss this without mentioning my impressions of people I know.

Ok, well lets take a look at your list.

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Let's just put it this way. I oppose the recreational use of all drugs.

Ok. Weird, but it's your thang you can shake it how you wanna...

Originally Posted by acbytesla

It's not a stance on their legality. It's not a moral stance. It's a health stance. Its a communal productivity stance.

Here we have a problem. I find most of this to be nonsensical; however, we disagree on this. No biggie. Moving on.

Originally Posted by acbytesla

It's also a I don't want to have a conversation with someone who is "obviously" stoned or drunk stance.

It seems like you base all of this on the stereotypical stoner. You've having a conversation with someone who is high RIGHT NOW. It's happening in real time.

Originally Posted by acbytesla

It's an I don't want to bail you out of jail for DUI stance.

So don't.

Originally Posted by acbytesla

It's a I don't want to discuss how cool the universe is with someone who probably can't find their car stance.

Never, in the years I've smoked weed, have I had someone do this to me despite seeing the stereotype all over. Decades of smoking and I've never run into something like this. Which is part of my issue. It seems like all of your complaints are focused on the stereotypical stoner than the actual reality of real people who smoke. It's why I brought up the fact that most of the complaints I see are from people who just don't have the experiences with people in our current age that smoke.

Originally Posted by acbytesla

This doesn't make a user a bad person. I don't hate them. I worry for them. I hope it doesn't ruin their lives. But I don't believe that it's a wise idea to experiment with drugs.

Well, if it helps you certainly don't have to worry for me, Argentina. Despite my years of star searching in my mental bliss I have still managed to carve myself out a pretty damn good life. I think, if you dug deeper, you'd see that marijuana can be a net positive.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by acbytesla

It's an I don't want to bail you out of jail for DUI stance.

This is a "my friends are jackasses and I should sever ties" stance, not a "drugs make you DUI" stance. Stop basing your personal stances on ignorant stereotypes.

[acbytesla]

Originally Posted by plague311

It seems like you base all of this on the stereotypical stoner. You've having a conversation with someone who is high RIGHT NOW. It's happening in real time.

There is a reason there are stereotypes.

Originally Posted by plague311

Never, in the years I've smoked weed, have I had someone do this to me despite seeing the stereotype all over. Decades of smoking and I've never run into something like this. Which is part of my issue. It seems like all of your complaints are focused on the stereotypical stoner than the actual reality of real people who smoke. It's why I brought up the fact that most of the complaints I see are from people who just don't have the experiences with people in our current age that smoke.

I'm convinced you're being dishonest or your perception is distorted as I have had too many of them to count.

Originally Posted by plague311

Well, if it helps you certainly don't have to worry for me, Argentina. Despite my years of star searching in my mental bliss I have still managed to carve myself out a pretty damn good life. I think, if you dug deeper, you'd see that marijuana can be a net positive.

Great. And I'll pass.

[acbytesla]

Originally Posted by theprestige

This is a "my friends are jackasses and I should sever ties" stance, not a "drugs make you DUI" stance. Stop basing your personal stances on ignorant stereotypes.

None of that is based on ignorance as I have encountered all those stereotypes. Also, just because I don't want to do something doesn't mean I won't. My friends are my friends despite the occasional times when they're a pain in the ass. Hopefully, they feel that way about me.