ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 24th November 2019, 04:16 PM   #1
Hercules56
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,928
Trump admits crimes on "Fox & Friends"

https://youtu.be/oU6_HVY3TjI

Its all there. Trump admits to withholding aid to Ukraine to force them to investigate the so-called "missing DNC server".

He thinks his crimes were perfectly fine. No problem.

We know he did what he is accused of. All that matters now is whether or not the Republicans in the Senate think such behavior is appropriate for a President.

Last edited by Hercules56; 24th November 2019 at 04:19 PM.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 04:35 PM   #2
CapelDodger
Penultimate Amazing
 
CapelDodger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 24,614
It was too weird and rambling to count as an admission, to my mind, but he clearly does believe that CrowdStrike is owned by a wealthy Ukrainian and that the DNC Server is in Ukraine - because "that's what I've heard". That's the President of the US talking there. Stunning.
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898)

God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150
CapelDodger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 04:43 PM   #3
Hercules56
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,928
Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
It was too weird and rambling to count as an admission, to my mind, but he clearly does believe that CrowdStrike is owned by a wealthy Ukrainian and that the DNC Server is in Ukraine - because "that's what I've heard". That's the President of the US talking there. Stunning.
Personally I wish there was a strong alternative to Impeachment & removal.

Say, add an Amendment to the Constitution that would allow Congress to vote to make the POTUS the VP and vice-versa.
Hercules56 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 05:07 PM   #4
CapelDodger
Penultimate Amazing
 
CapelDodger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 24,614
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Personally I wish there was a strong alternative to Impeachment & removal.
Well, maybe the 2nd Amendment guys have one, I don't know ...
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898)

God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150
CapelDodger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 05:13 PM   #5
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 77,055
Why would we want Pence to be POTUS? Trump would just bully him and stay in charge as a VP.

The reason Trump is confessing on Fox is he's becoming bolder and bolder in his mind that he didn't do anything wrong and if he did he won't be ousted by the Senate.

I sincerely hope the Democrats in the House drag this out long enough, adding more evidence that there's a chance it won't immediately be dismissed in the Senate.

There are some GOP Senators that won't vote to dismiss the charges without a trial.

The Democrats are doing a piss-poor job of marketing Trump's guilt while the Republicans are repeating their talking points multiple times a day in different venues.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 05:27 PM   #6
Roger Ramjets
Illuminator
 
Roger Ramjets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,258
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Personally I wish there was a strong alternative to Impeachment & removal.
There is, actually an even better one. Vote him out. Then there will be no argument over whether he deserved it.
__________________
We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.
Roger Ramjets is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 05:39 PM   #7
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 9,880
Well, he certainly stayed true to form. I wonder if he really believes in the Crowdstrike nonsense or if he's just pushing it to deflect from the Russians being behind it.

Is it just me or did the Fox and Friends hosts look uncomfortable with a lot of what Trump was saying? Especially the Crowdstrike and George Conway bits?
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 05:44 PM   #8
Venom
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 3,353
The Fox and Friends crew always look like they're humoring their crazy rambling uncle over dinner whenever Trump calls in.
Venom is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 06:38 PM   #9
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 21,153
*Deadpan* Oh he admitted to wrong doing. Surely this will finally be the thing to take down Trump. I mean nobody can support him now.
__________________
- "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset
- "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
- "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 06:40 PM   #10
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 23,890
It's not a crime when the President does it.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 06:48 PM   #11
portlandatheist
Illuminator
 
portlandatheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,216
"you wouldn't have any riots, you'd have a police state" --DJT in reference to the Hong Kong riots
He is so blatantly fascist and ******* crazy.
portlandatheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 06:59 PM   #12
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 19,274
Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
"you wouldn't have any riots, you'd have a police state" --DJT in reference to the Hong Kong riots
He is so blatantly fascist and ******* crazy.
You left out un-American and a traitor to his country.
__________________
A MAGA hat = a Swastika arm band. A vote for Trump is a vote for treason.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 07:01 PM   #13
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 19,274
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
https://youtu.be/oU6_HVY3TjI

Its all there. Trump admits to withholding aid to Ukraine to force them to investigate the so-called "missing DNC server".

He thinks his crimes were perfectly fine. No problem.

We know he did what he is accused of. All that matters now is whether or not the Republicans in the Senate think such behavior is appropriate for a President.
Sadly, the filthy, treasonous Trumptrash won't care. It's up to real Americans to shout this from the rooftops so citizens of this country who are still worthy of being called Americans know the kind of scum they have in the Oval Office, Congress and as neighbors.
__________________
A MAGA hat = a Swastika arm band. A vote for Trump is a vote for treason.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 08:49 PM   #14
Norman Alexander
Philosopher
 
Norman Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 6,431
Thought he said there was no quid pro quo. They even made a bunch of songs about it...

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...-a4293561.html
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornetsí nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015
Norman Alexander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th November 2019, 09:32 PM   #15
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,314
Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
There is, actually an even better one. Vote him out. Then there will be no argument over whether he deserved it.
That increasingly becomes harder and harder, as Trump and GOP's crimes make elections less fair.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 01:51 AM   #16
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 12,925
The Emperor is stark, bollock naked, and 4 in every 10 Americans are too ******* dumb to notice!
__________________
"You can't promote principled anti-corruption action without pissing-off corrupt people!" - George Kent on Day one of the Trump Impeachment Hearings
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list.
This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 02:02 AM   #17
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Sir Fynwy
Posts: 27,507
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
The Emperor is stark, bollock naked, and 4 in every 10 Americans are too ******* dumb to notice!
....and sadly, maybe another 2 out of 10 are now bored with the impeachment process because it's taking too long and it's got too many "minor" characters. They wanted a one or two hour TV special in which major Administration members dropped bombshell after bombshell. Instead they've got the patient and gradual accumulation of evidence.

As a result even though they can see that the emperor is naked, they can't summon up the energy to give a ****.
The Don is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 08:08 AM   #18
Donal
Illuminator
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,964
Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
There is, actually an even better one. Vote him out. Then there will be no argument over whether he deserved it.
Until him and his armed "volunteer elections monitors" decide it wasn't a fair election and there just had to be millions of illegals voting for the Democrat.

And all the voter suppression tactics local Republican governments are ramming through.
__________________
SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 09:38 AM   #19
phiwum
Penultimate Amazing
 
phiwum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,335
Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
There is, actually an even better one. Vote him out. Then there will be no argument over whether he deserved it.
You genuinely think that if Trump is voted out of office, there won't be any arguments that the election was fraudulent?

He claimed millions of illegal votes for his opponent when he *won* the election. He formed a commission to support this, though it was a failure. If he's voted out, he will certainly claim fraud.

The question is how many of his supporters and especially Republicans in Congress and the Senate will parrot his claims.
phiwum is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 09:42 AM   #20
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 23,890
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
You genuinely think that if Trump is voted out of office, there won't be any arguments that the election was fraudulent?

He claimed millions of illegal votes for his opponent when he *won* the election. He formed a commission to support this, though it was a failure. If he's voted out, he will certainly claim fraud.

The question is how many of his supporters and especially Republicans in Congress and the Senate will parrot his claims.
All of them. There will be serious attempts to overturn the election if Trump loses.
And if he wins, God help us. There will be serious attempts to give him more terms.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 10:20 AM   #21
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,407
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
All of them. There will be serious attempts to overturn the election if Trump loses.
And if he wins, God help us. There will be serious attempts to give him more terms.
The two-term limit was established by the 22nd amendment. If Trump is re-elected and the Repubs keep the Senate and take back the House, they could pass a repeal and send it to the states for ratification. The question is whether there would be enough Trump legislatures to support it.

I note that the amendment limits the number of times that a person can be elected President. Narrowly interpreted, that wouldn't prevent Trump from being elected VP with a figurehead President, and even assuming the office if that President left.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty...s_Constitution
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 10:30 AM   #22
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 26,081
Perhaps I missed the relevant part of the video, but I didn't hear Trump admitting to a quid pro quo. I did hear him talking about the DNC server, but not saying he withheld aid. Can someone provide a timestamp?
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 10:57 AM   #23
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 77,055
Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
There is, actually an even better one. Vote him out. Then there will be no argument over whether he deserved it.
But there will be a statement that it's fine to act like a dictator, fine to encourage foreign governments to interfere in the election, fine to use charities for your personal piggy banks, no doubt he's also cheated on his taxes claiming donations he didn't make, and fine to use various schemes to get around election finance laws.

Not to mention giving this guy yet another pass that he will interpret, not as a close call, he better straighten up, but a pass that means he can get away with anything he wants. He will get more bold in breaking the law, abusing his office.

You don't know if he isn't able to perpetrate blatant election fraud, certainly there will be the same bots and trolls interfering. Or he might bribe a few state election department heads to pull even more disenfranchisement schemes. George Bush has a whole slew of them to choose from.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 11:11 AM   #24
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 77,055
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
You genuinely think that if Trump is voted out of office, there won't be any arguments that the election was fraudulent?

He claimed millions of illegal votes for his opponent when he *won* the election. He formed a commission to support this, though it was a failure. If he's voted out, he will certainly claim fraud.

The question is how many of his supporters and especially Republicans in Congress and the Senate will parrot his claims.
Good point. It's not like if he's voted out it will convince anyone that he fairly lost anymore than it will convince anyone the impeachment was fair.

I say the Democrats should put everything he's done in the articles, throw the book at him from the Mueller report to obstruction of justice covering up the Ukrainian crimes, including the backchannel politics. At least it will give his crimes some daylight and make the Republicans look bad.

Expect the lie being marketed now that this will make the Democrats look petty to be repeated in more and more places.

The Democrats need to push their own narrative that Trump is dangerously corrupt and to let him get away with it seriously damages our democracy. Some commercials about now that this is the biggest challenge to our democracy would be nice.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 25th November 2019 at 11:14 AM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 11:14 AM   #25
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 12,925
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The two-term limit was established by the 22nd amendment. If Trump is re-elected and the Repubs keep the Senate and take back the House, they could pass a repeal and send it to the states for ratification. The question is whether there would be enough Trump legislatures to support it
That would require a 2/3 super-majority in both the Senate and the House. Not only would they have to take back the Senate and the House, they would need to flip enough seats to give them at least 67-33 in the Senate and 292-143 in the House.
__________________
"You can't promote principled anti-corruption action without pissing-off corrupt people!" - George Kent on Day one of the Trump Impeachment Hearings
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list.
This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; 25th November 2019 at 11:24 AM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 11:24 AM   #26
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 77,055
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Perhaps I missed the relevant part of the video, but I didn't hear Trump admitting to a quid pro quo. I did hear him talking about the DNC server, but not saying he withheld aid. Can someone provide a timestamp?
You're right, he mostly repeated his lies that he held the money up to get reassurance the new government was't corrupt. Schiff has to prove that's a lie. I wonder if Bolton is holding out for some quid pro quo from Trump to exonerate him or incriminate him. Heck, Bolton could blackmail Trump for months if he plays his cards right.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 25th November 2019 at 11:25 AM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 11:27 AM   #27
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 77,055
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
That would require a 2/3 super-majority in both the Senate and the House. Not only would they have to take back the Senate and the House, they would need to flip enough seats to give them at least 67-33 in the Senate and 292-143 in the House.
Plus 2/3 of the states.
__________________
That new avatar is cuteness overload.
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 11:33 AM   #28
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 87,061
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Personally I wish there was a strong alternative to Impeachment & removal.
In Trump's case, there are institutions that handle cases like him.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 11:37 AM   #29
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 39,698
Originally Posted by Hercules56 View Post
Personally I wish there was a strong alternative to Impeachment & removal.

Say, add an Amendment to the Constitution that would allow Congress to vote to make the POTUS the VP and vice-versa.
I guess I don't understand what "strong alternative" is supposed to mean in this context.

The alternative you suggest seems functionally equivalent to impeachment, with much the same strengths and weaknesses.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 11:46 AM   #30
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 12,925
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Plus 2/3 of the states.

Yes, the ratification step.
__________________
"You can't promote principled anti-corruption action without pissing-off corrupt people!" - George Kent on Day one of the Trump Impeachment Hearings
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list.
This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 12:58 PM   #31
Drewbot
Philosopher
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,223
Why do you think it's a crime for the President to ask for assistance in a corruption investigation?
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 01:01 PM   #32
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 87,061
Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Why do you think it's a crime for the President to ask for assistance in a corruption investigation?
Are you joking? Or are you not aware that the above is an excuse for what he was really doing?

I mean, presumably you didn't just wake up from a three month coma to hear about this for the first time here, right?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 01:25 PM   #33
Dread Pirate Roberts
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 91
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
That would require a 2/3 super-majority in both the Senate and the House. Not only would they have to take back the Senate and the House, they would need to flip enough seats to give them at least 67-33 in the Senate and 292-143 in the House.
If 34 states call for a convention, it doesn't matter who controls Congress. It's never happened - close a few times - but then neither had Trump until a couple of years ago.
Dread Pirate Roberts is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 01:27 PM   #34
Donal
Illuminator
 
Donal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,964
Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Why do you think it's a crime for the President to ask for assistance in a corruption investigation?
He wasn't asking for help in an investigation. He tried to coerce an ally into announcing an investigation, irrespective if there was an actual investigation, by with holding aid against an enemy that was already promised and approved. He used his office to leverage a personal favor that ran contrary to the interests of the United states.

is that plain enough?
__________________
SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense
Donal is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 02:01 PM   #35
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 13,426
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
He wasn't asking for help in an investigation. He tried to coerce an ally into announcing an investigation, irrespective if there was an actual investigation, by with holding aid against an enemy that was already promised and approved. He used his office to leverage a personal favor that ran contrary to the interests of the United states.

is that plain enough?
It will never be plain enough. The point of the question isn't to have it answered, but rather to ask it again and again. People who don't know better will see it to mean that there's nothing wrong with what Trump did. People who damn well should know better will still perceive it as a weakness in the Democrats' argument - even though it really isn't. It's psychological manipulation mastered by the extreme right, and it works.

You will note that Drewbot has made no effort to actually inform himself of the facts of the case despite this being out in the open for weeks now. That's not because he's stupid, but because they don't matter.
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1

Last edited by uke2se; 25th November 2019 at 02:04 PM.
uke2se is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 02:14 PM   #36
Monza
Alta Viro
 
Monza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,062
Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Why do you think it's a crime for the President to ask for assistance in a corruption investigation?
He asked a foreign country to investigate an American citizen. He didn't ask the DOJ. This is a serious abandonment of his oath of office.

He withheld Congressionally approved monetary assistance to an ally. The POTUS does not have the authority to do this without following certain requests for approval from Congress.

His actions were not only self-serving, they were in stark contrast to official American policy toward Ukraine. His actions also aided a hostile foreign government at the expense of an ally.
Monza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 03:09 PM   #37
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 10,171
Originally Posted by Donal View Post
He wasn't asking for help in an investigation. He tried to coerce an ally into announcing an investigation, irrespective if there was an actual investigation, by with holding aid against an enemy that was already promised and approved. He used his office to leverage a personal favor that ran contrary to the interests of the United states.

is that plain enough?
It seems to me like Zelensky must have nerves (and balls) of steel. How good must he be at playing for time? He must have managed to convey willingness while also stalling an announcement. I'm fairly impressed.

Guy was between a rock and a hard place, and so far has not committed to anything.
Minoosh is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 03:19 PM   #38
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 10,171
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Is it just me or did the Fox and Friends hosts look uncomfortable with a lot of what Trump was saying? Especially the Crowdstrike and George Conway bits?
I haven't watched the most recent episode, but there was another time they kept trying to head off some of his nuttier tangents. It was the one held on Melania's birthday. I often don't have the stomach to watch, but that was an amusing 25-30 minutes. They looked like they were blinking SOS messages in Morse code, or considering chewing off an arm to escape a trap.
Minoosh is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 03:52 PM   #39
CapelDodger
Penultimate Amazing
 
CapelDodger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 24,614
Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Why do you think it's a crime for the President to ask for assistance in a corruption investigation?
Why is the only corruption investigation he asks for one which can be spuriously connected to the Biden family?



Seriously, why do you think that is?
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898)

God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150
CapelDodger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2019, 04:32 PM   #40
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 9,880
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post

>snip<
Expect the lie being marketed now that this will make the Democrats look petty to be repeated in more and more places.
>ship<
Oh, the sweet, sweet irony considering Trump is the embodiment of the word "petty".
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:07 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.