Ilhan Omar's Opponent Wants Her Hung

[SuburbanTurkey]

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

It is a problem of not having competitive elections that some seats do not draw serious candidates.

I wouldn't necessarily say it's a problem if there isn't a candidate from each party. Often these seats are still competitive, but the competition is occurring during the party primary rather than the general. Take AOC for example. Her big race was winning the democratic primary against the incumbent from the same party. Sure, she had a cakewalk in the general, but that it wouldn't be fair to call that race noncompetitive. Even though they were in the same party, the difference between AOC and her opponent were significant.

You can say it's noncompetitive because there is virtually no chance that a Republican will win the seat, but often that's just an honest reflection of the constituency. There's no way to slice many of these big cities that doesn't result in Democratic strongholds.

[plague311]

So much for Minnesota Nice...

[luchog]

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

There's a growing "nutbag" wing of the party, with a handful of open Q-anon candidates, but this is still very much the fringe. The fringe I'm more worried about is the nationalist and proto-fascist wings, which are having much more success infiltrating and taking over the party.

Originally Posted by Donal

How is it the fringe when you have the Very Stupid President pushing their conspiracies? When Gym Jordan, Elise Stafanik ,and Devin Moooones are pushing these theories during Congressional hearings?

When Senators McConnell, Graham, and Kennedy go on the Sunday talk shows and discuss them?

The violent lunatic fringe is running the GOP. Everyone really needs to come to terms with that fact.

Anyone who thinks this is fringe hasn't really been paying attention for the last half-century or so. Nationalist proto-fascists have been the face of the GOP since Nixon and the Southern Strategy, and fully in control since Reagan. The Tea Party wing was a bit late to the game.

[SuburbanTurkey]

Originally Posted by luchog

Anyone who thinks this is fringe hasn't really been paying attention for the last half-century or so. Nationalist proto-fascists have been the face of the GOP since Nixon and the Southern Strategy, and fully in control since Reagan. The Tea Party wing was a bit late to the game.

Q-anon is a kind of a special case to my eye. They are one part proto-fascist, one part tin foil hat. These are the people that think JFK Jr. faked his own death and is coming to arrest Clinton for sucking adrenochrome out of babies.

Even for the fascist right, Qanon is fringey. Most of the fascists aren't delusional like this, they're just fascists.

[Babbylonian]

Originally Posted by luchog

Anyone who thinks this is fringe hasn't really been paying attention for the last half-century or so. Nationalist proto-fascists have been the face of the GOP since Nixon and the Southern Strategy, and fully in control since Reagan. The Tea Party wing was a bit late to the game.

They're the fringe when it's convenient for those [supposedly] of the mainstream to claim such in order to distance themselves from specific nuttery. The rest of the time they're just the good old salt-of-the-earth Americans that should be running this country.

Look at Steve King. It took 16 years (eight congressional terms!)for the Republicans to get their **** together to condemn him and his over-the-top conspiracy-nut racism...and he's still a member of the House of Representatives!

As far as I'm concerned, there is no significant right-wing fringe distinct from the Republican party. At best, there are nuts who are absolutely tolerated and catered to by the "moderate" (HA!) Republicans until they start negatively impacting poll results. Those nuts are then asked to keep it down while still getting whatever they want from their slightly more acceptable Republican pals.

[Venom]

Look at these disgusting human beings.

Lock em up.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by carlitos

Arthur Jones, Illinois third Congressional district. He was the only republican that ran in the primary in 2018, so he won. His opponent, William Lipinski, is the most conservative Democrat in the House of Representatives, so there isn't much point in opposing him in that particular district, which is pretty conservative / democrat leaning. Like blue dog democrats, lots of police and firemen, etc.

Lipinski almost lost the Democratic primary to a progressive candidate in 2018, and he will probably lose in 2020, so it might be a competitive election next time.

In which case some legitimate GOP candiates will run in that district.
Jones won the GOP Primary because no GOP candidate of any standing ran in what was thought to be a hopeless battle.
I argued that the GOP should have found some sacrificial lamb willing to bite the bullet and run in a hopeless case just to keep some nubjob from getting the nomination and embrassing the party.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by carlitos

It's worth mentioning that the Illinois Republican party has been a dumpster fire since 2004. Alan Keyes and Mike Ditka were considered viable Senate candidates to fill Obama's seat. Jack Ryan had his divorce records unsealed and released to the media to kneecap his campaign. The Republican governor before Blagojevich was in jail. That they weren't able to convince some functioning adult Republican to run a guaranteed losing Congressional campaign on Chicago's southwest side in 2018 is not surprising.

Plus it gives everyone an excuse to use that phrase from the Blues Brothers - "I hate Illinois nazis."

Ah yes, Jack Ryan.Husband, back then, of 7 of 9.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by Babbylonian

They're the fringe when it's convenient for those [supposedly] of the mainstream to claim such in order to distance themselves from specific nuttery. The rest of the time they're just the good old salt-of-the-earth Americans that should be running this country.

Look at Steve King. It took 16 years (eight congressional terms!)for the Republicans to get their **** together to condemn him and his over-the-top conspiracy-nut racism...and he's still a member of the House of Representatives!

As far as I'm concerned, there is no significant right-wing fringe distinct from the Republican party. At best, there are nuts who are absolutely tolerated and catered to by the "moderate" (HA!) Republicans until they start negatively impacting poll results. Those nuts are then asked to keep it down while still getting whatever they want from their slightly more acceptable Republican pals.

Speaking of King, it is interesting that the GOP House leadership is taking immediate steps to get rid of Duncan Hunter after his felon convinction of misusing campaign funds. but are taking no steps to get force King out.
I guess bigotry and racism are OK, but stealing from your own party is persona non grata material.

[Armitage72]

Florida is joining the fun, with Republican primary candidate George Buck saying that Ilhan Omar and other Democrats should be hanged for treason.

"We should hang these traitors where they stand. I have no tolerance for those who are abusing our system to destroy our country."

[Donal]

While it is true the Republican party itself has no control over who registers as a Republican or who declares themselves a candidate in their primary, doesn't anyone find it odd that all these violent, racist, mentally unhinged folks identify as Republicans?

[Armitage72]

This particular guy was actively recruited as part of the Young Guns program, although his support has now been pulled.

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by Armitage72

Florida is joining the fun, with Republican primary candidate George Buck saying that Ilhan Omar and other Democrats should be hanged for treason.

"We should hang these traitors where they stand. I have no tolerance for those who are abusing our system to destroy our country."

Basic republican jokes.

[Giordano]

Post deleted

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by Donal

While it is true the Republican party itself has no control over who registers as a Republican or who declares themselves a candidate in their primary, doesn't anyone find it odd that all these violent, racist, mentally unhinged folks identify as Republicans?

Apropos of nothing it always has shocked me how given... everything else how little control over their... IP I guess you'd call the major political parties have.

The fact that GOP or Democratic Party can't really declare someone "not part of them" is just... weird.

[luchog]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

The fact that GOP or Democratic Party can't really declare someone "not part of them" is just... weird.

Votes are more important than principles.

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by luchog

Votes are more important than principles.

Yeah but you'd figure even looking at this 100% cynically and assuming they care about nothing but counting votes you'd still figure there would at least occasionally be scenarios, maybe not this one but sometimes, where cutting someone out would be the best way to get those votes.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Apropos of nothing it always has shocked me how given... everything else how little control over their... IP I guess you'd call the major political parties have.

The fact that GOP or Democratic Party can't really declare someone "not part of them" is just... weird.

For the umpteenth time, the parties can and do declare someone not part of them. They do it by polling all the registered party members in a secret ballot. This is done prior to the general election, where the party's chosen representative campaigns against the chosen representatives from the other parties. This is called a "primary election" in the US.

How would you recommend it be done?

[JoeMorgue]

Originally Posted by theprestige

For the umpteenth time, the parties can and do declare someone not part of them. They do it by polling all the registered party members in a secret ballot. This is done prior to the general election, where the party's chosen representative campaigns against the chosen representatives from the other parties. This is called a "primary election" in the US.

How would you recommend it be done?

Oh so Republicans want all those racist, white nationalist, conspiracy theorist reality deniers in their ranks.

That's not better.

We have two options. Either the Republicans can't get rid of Steve King and the like or they won't. Neither is acceptable.

Contrare away.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Oh so Republicans want all those racist, white nationalist, conspiracy theorist reality deniers in their ranks.

That's not better.

We have two options. Either the Republicans can't get rid of Steve King and the like or they won't. Neither is acceptable.

Contrare away.

What kind of process would you implement, to purge Steve King from the ranks of the party?

What kind of process would you implement, to prevent the lady in the OP from being elected as the party's representative, by the party members in her district?

[luchog]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Yeah but you'd figure even looking at this 100% cynically and assuming they care about nothing but counting votes you'd still figure there would at least occasionally be scenarios, maybe not this one but sometimes, where cutting someone out would be the best way to get those votes.

Yeah, there are, that's why the supposedly liberal Dems turned their back on the LGBTQ community for so many years, and why the centrist wing of the party still does to varying degrees (eg. Bill Clinton's DoMA, and Hillary Clinton's cozying up to TERFs during the campaign).

Both parties are well aware that elections hinge mainly on Independent voters, who are predominantly white and predominantly irrational, emotionalist voters. Trump knew how to leverage this crowd, as did Sanders; but the former was supported by his party, while the latter was not.

That's also why so many "reform" candidates on the left end up being little better than their right-wing counterparts when they finally get into office (eg. Kamala Harris); and why even minority candidates project an image as close to mainstream cis-het white as they can (eg. Pete Buttigieg). They know that they can afford to alienate a sizeable fraction of minority voters (while the bulk of said minorities will still vote for any candidate that leans even slightly to the left), as long as they can keep the enough of the white independents on their side.

In the GOP's case, they know that a huge segment of their voter base are religious and racist nutters. They've been actively courting such people for decades; quietly and behind the scenes since Nixon, and loudly embracing them since Reagan. They've done reasonably well as a result, since such people are far more numerous in this country than many of us would like to admit. Ever since Trump brought them out from under their rocks, the GOP has been forced to acknowledge just how much they depend on these "deplorables" for their power base.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Yeah but you'd figure even looking at this 100% cynically and assuming they care about nothing but counting votes you'd still figure there would at least occasionally be scenarios, maybe not this one but sometimes, where cutting someone out would be the best way to get those votes.

Cut someone out how?

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by luchog

Yeah, there are, that's why the supposedly liberal Dems turned their back on the LGBTQ community for so many years, and why the centrist wing of the party still does to varying degrees (eg. Bill Clinton's DoMA, and Hillary Clinton's cozying up to TERFs during the campaign).

Both parties are well aware that elections hinge mainly on Independent voters, who are predominantly white and predominantly irrational, emotionalist voters. Trump knew how to leverage this crowd, as did Sanders; but the former was supported by his party, while the latter was not.

In that Trump actually won the primaries and got the most votes while sanders did not.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

In that Trump actually won the primaries and got the most votes while sanders did not.

Also, Trump was not supported by his party during the primaries.

[Donal]

Jeff Sessions wasn't a Republican?

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by Donal

Jeff Sessions wasn't a Republican?

I think there's a difference between "a Republican" and "the Republican Party." But the terms aren't all that clear-cut, and there's plenty of room for ambiguity. So suit yourself. I see it differently than you do, but it's not a major issue for me.

[ponderingturtle]

Originally Posted by theprestige

Also, Trump was not supported by his party during the primaries.

Sure he was, that is why he won their votes. This seems to be an argument about smoky back rooms and really those seem to be pretty dead on a presidential level.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Sure he was, that is why he won their votes. This seems to be an argument about smoky back rooms and really those seem to be pretty dead on a presidential level.

Fair enough. I'm not sure it's even an argument. I mean, it's no fun having self-identified neo-Nazis running under the party banner, but I don't really see a better way to handle it, than through primary elections. If JoeMorgue does have a better solution to propose, I'd like to hear it.

[Trebuchet]

Originally Posted by Donal

While it is true the Republican party itself has no control over who registers as a Republican or who declares themselves a candidate in their primary, doesn't anyone find it odd that all these violent, racist, mentally unhinged folks identify as Republicans?

No. It's where they've been headed for at least 50 years.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Armitage72

This particular guy was actively recruited as part of the Young Guns program, although his support has now been pulled.

I find their choice of names for the program troubling and telling. Young Guns refers to gunslingers....killers and violence. I know the term is used to describe someone who is up and coming in a position, but to use it politically in these days of so much gun violence I find to be in very bad taste.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I find their choice of names for the program troubling and telling. Young Guns refers to gunslingers....killers and violence. I know the term is used to describe someone who is up and coming in a position, but to use it politically in these days of so much gun violence I find to be in very bad taste.

It may just be a reference to the movie of long ago. If memory serves it showed Emilio Estevez's butt. Great filmmaking is sadly rare now.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

It may just be a reference to the movie of long ago. If memory serves it showed Emilio Estevez's butt. Great filmmaking is sadly rare now.

I know, which is why I made the "gunslingers" reference. I still find it a very poor choice but I also think it was a very deliberate choice considering the GOP is the party of the NRA.

[theprestige]

Originally Posted by plague311

So much for Minnesota Nice...

There's probably more to Minnesota Nice than a single person's antics.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

I know, which is why I made the "gunslingers" reference. I still find it a very poor choice but I also think it was a very deliberate choice considering the GOP is the party of the NRA.

It was probably a stunt double butt anyway, no more genuine than the declared principles of a political party.

[Bob001]

Originally Posted by Craig4

https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...witter-919956/

One of Ilhan Omar's potential 2020 GOP opponents wants the Congresswoman hung. Danielle Stella, currently running for her party's nomination to unseat Omar stated that she should be tried for treason and hung. ...

Is this person considered a serious candidate? What are local Repubs saying? Pretty much anyone can run in a primary, or even as a third-party candidate in the general election. Lyndon LaRouche was an official presidential candidate several times.

The real scandal would be not just what she said, but if the Republican establishment doesn't shut her down.

And apparently somebody (at least the operator of this web site) is really mad at her.
https://www.danielle-stella.com/

[W.D.Clinger]

Originally Posted by Donal

While it is true the Republican party itself has no control over who registers as a Republican or who declares themselves a candidate in their primary, doesn't anyone find it odd that all these violent, racist, mentally unhinged folks identify as Republicans?

In the United States, people tend to identify with the major party that best promotes their ideals, so I don't find it at all odd that many violent, racist, mentally unhinged foiks identify as Republicans.

I'm sure there are many fine people on both sides, just as there are many reprehensible people on both sides. For the purposes of this paragraph, I declare myself unable to estimate the fractions that fall into those categories.

[CORed]

Originally Posted by shemp

Please do not provide us with evidence.

I agree. That would surely get him banned, and this forum would be a lot more boring without Tragic Monkey.

[dudalb]

It's a problem for both parties;any nutcase can register as a party member and run for a nomination. You should see some of the kooks who run for Democratic nominations in the San Francisco Bay Area;pretty much as extreme to the left as the nutcase in Florida is to the right.
But I don't find the alternative attractive;Let a few party bosses/insiders control the whole process and freeze the rank and file party member from having much of a choice as to who runs in their district. That is the way it's done in several countries, the UK being a example.

[Craig4]

Originally Posted by Bob001

Is this person considered a serious candidate? What are local Repubs saying? Pretty much anyone can run in a primary, or even as a third-party candidate in the general election. Lyndon LaRouche was an official presidential candidate several times.

The real scandal would be not just what she said, but if the Republican establishment doesn't shut her down.

And apparently somebody (at least the operator of this web site) is really mad at her.
https://www.danielle-stella.com/

As of the date of the article, she had the support of some of the Trumptrash pundits at Fox News's streaming service Fox Nation to run against Omar. I assume they were unaware of the arrest warrants. Even the Trumptrash are distancing themselves from her now.