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Tags donald trump , lying charges , Russia conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 7th May 2019, 09:14 AM   #761
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Conspiracy theories about how Google treats a Conspiracy theorist.....
Fair enough, but google's been engaging in censorship as of late, for real:

https://www.alternet.org/2017/09/edi...alternet-hard/

It's kind of difficult to find the sweet spot of "pragmatic cynicism" which lies between "naivety" and "paranoia". LOL
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Old 7th May 2019, 09:15 AM   #762
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
That's plenty for me.
Well, at least you're consistent.
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Old 7th May 2019, 09:16 AM   #763
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
She's really not any more of a "conspiracy theorist" than Glenn Greenwald, but you an believe whatever you wish.
One of the top Google results: Why is Matt Taibbi Sharing an Insane Conspiracy Theorist's Rantings on Twitter? and apparently she has spread Seth Rich conspiracy theories as well as the claim that Clinton rigged the primaries. So, yeah, conspiracy theorist with a "small, cultish following."
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Old 7th May 2019, 09:24 AM   #764
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
She's really not any more of a "conspiracy theorist" than Glenn Greenwald
So in other words, a conspiracy theorist.
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Old 7th May 2019, 09:27 AM   #765
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
the hard-hitting analysis Caitlin Johnstone does
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Old 7th May 2019, 09:28 AM   #766
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
What in the world is "thedailybanter"?

If you're trying to prove that there are people out there who hate her, you can really save yourself the time, because that's obvious.
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Old 7th May 2019, 09:31 AM   #767
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
One of the top Google results: Why is Matt Taibbi Sharing an Insane Conspiracy Theorist's Rantings on Twitter? and apparently she has spread Seth Rich conspiracy theories as well as the claim that Clinton rigged the primaries. So, yeah, conspiracy theorist with a "small, cultish following."
From the article:
Quote:
It is almost certainly true that the DNC broadly favored Clinton, but then this is hardly surprising given Sanders had refused to join the party and wouldn't call himself a Democrat until the end of 2015. But this does not mean the primary was rigged, and it does not mean Hillary Clinton tried to rig it. She handily beat Bernie Sanders in 2016 by over 3 million votes, and there has yet to be any evidence to suggest the results were the result of interference by the DNC.

It is incredibly tiring having to mine through the endless ******** "journalists" like Caitlin Johnstone spew out to their conspiracy theory prone readers eagerly awaiting new information confirming Bernie Sanders really won/Russia didn't hack the election/Hillary Clinton is a crook etc etc. We do this begrudgingly at the Banter in order to counter the worst of it, but when respected journalists like Matt Taibbi parrot this *********, it makes it all the worse and all the more depressing.
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Old 7th May 2019, 09:33 AM   #768
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Honest question: why would her little-known book from 16 years ago, with 16 reviews, be listed, and not her much more popular one with 45 reviews?
Honest answer: Chronological order.
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Old 7th May 2019, 09:37 AM   #769
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Conspiracy theories about how Google treats a Conspiracy theorist.....
Indeed.
FWIW, my first hits for her on my phone were about her Woke book, with the author card much farther down.
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Old 7th May 2019, 09:42 AM   #770
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I admit that this is a very good argument for "quad" being told about an old book of the author by an algorithm, not a conspiracy, with the same effect to actually dismiss what that author wrote about the topic of the thread.
Well then I don't know what to tell you. My general advice to (the general) you would be to not write serious books on woo if you'd like to keep your credibility. I guess it's too late for Johnstone to receive that advice. It's a real shame.
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Old 7th May 2019, 09:46 AM   #771
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Someone claimed that there are 7 astrology books and "Woke". I pointed out that there are 7 search results: one of them "Woke", one of them the astrology book, four derivitives of the astrology book and one random result. Which you had seen before you wrote your post. Why, carlitos? Why are you doing this?
My guess would be to point out that your accusations of "Liar" are based on your own ignorance. Are you afraid of the Truth?
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Old 7th May 2019, 09:46 AM   #772
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Well then I don't know what to tell you. My general advice to (the general) you would be to not write serious books on woo if you'd like to keep your credibility. I guess it's too late for Johnstone to receive that advice. It's a real shame.
I seriously doubt anyone who matters cares that she was into astrology when she was in college, 16 years ago.
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Old 7th May 2019, 09:49 AM   #773
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Just to remind folks how we got here.


Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Are you claiming that her astrology book was "one of the first things" you found googling her? This is obviously untrue. You found some propaganda article where her astrology book was used to smear her. Written to be found by you. I suggest you read her article again using critical thinking, not random internet search results. Trust your own judgement.
I have no opinion at all about this woman writing about astrology. I am also not calling people liars for believing their own eyes when they do a google search, or imagining some disinfo conspiracy to discredit an author who is apparently a conspiracy theorist herself.
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Old 7th May 2019, 09:54 AM   #774
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Just to remind folks how we got here.




I have no opinion at all about this woman writing about astrology. I am also not calling people liars for believing their own eyes when they do a google search, or imagining some disinfo conspiracy to discredit an author who is apparently a conspiracy theorist herself.
CE definitely owes you an apology for that, but in her defense, it is the sort of thing people say about Johnstone when they actually are lying. (Another is that it's actually her husband who writes all her articles...as much as she might have a cult-like following of fans, she has an even larger cult of haters, heh.)
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Old 7th May 2019, 09:56 AM   #775
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wareyin and quadraginta, not me.
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Old 7th May 2019, 09:58 AM   #776
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Fair enough, but google's been engaging in censorship as of late, for real:

https://www.alternet.org/2017/09/edi...alternet-hard/

It's kind of difficult to find the sweet spot of "pragmatic cynicism" which lies between "naivety" and "paranoia". LOL
Honest question: It is necessary that a search engine like Google has an algorithm for ordering the results of a search. Does that really constitute "censorship"? That's quite a stretch.

Furthermore, according to that article:

Quote:
In June, Google announced major changes in its algorithm designed to combat fake news.
...which is absolutely consistent with AlterNet not being given priority in searches according to this (which I will admit I have not verified):

Quote:
some promotion of pseudoscience
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/alternet/
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Old 7th May 2019, 10:02 AM   #777
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I seriously doubt anyone who matters cares that she was into astrology when she was in college, 16 years ago.
Great! I'm glad to see you no longer believe it's a Google smear campaign!

They'd have to care before they bothered to smear her, after all.
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Old 7th May 2019, 10:07 AM   #778
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Honest question: It is necessary that a search engine like Google has an algorithm for ordering the results of a search. Does that really constitute "censorship"? That's quite a stretch.
If you look at the timing and context of the when and how the downranking happened, yeah, it does look like look like (show itself to be, IMO) censorship.

Quote:
Furthermore, according to that article:



...which is absolutely consistent with AlterNet not being given priority in searches according to this (which I will admit I have not verified):
How is that consistent, since Alternet is not fake news by any definition?




Quote:
Oh, please. It says "AlterNet has conistently reported on the connection between cell phones and cancer, which is misleading as there is not a scientific consensus on whether radiation for cell phones causes cancer or not."

And here's an example of them on that topic:
https://www.alternet.org/2018/04/doe...-cause-cancer/

Quote:
Between the alarming conspiracy theories, the “possible human carcinogen” verdict, and reassuring reports like the one in the Times, it’s hard to know what to believe, and that in itself can cause anxiety, because we certainly need to know. More than a billion people use cell phones daily. Are our phones putting us in danger or not?

The short answer is probably not, but it’s still better to take certain precautions.
Alternet is not "fake news" by any definition.
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Old 7th May 2019, 10:08 AM   #779
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Great! I'm glad to see you no longer believe it's a Google smear campaign!

They'd have to care before they bothered to smear her, after all.
Hey, I just think there's a chance they might be trying. lol
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Old 7th May 2019, 10:54 AM   #780
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
If you look at the timing and context of the when and how the downranking happened, yeah, it does look like look like (show itself to be, IMO) censorship.
Can you elaborate on this? The only timing I am aware of is that Google decided to be proactive about not spreading fake news, and adjusted their algorithm accordingly. AlterNet, which has some articles supporting pseudoscience, was affected accordingly. Seems quite natural (ie, not "censorship") to me. Did you have something else in mind?

Quote:

How is that consistent, since Alternet is not fake news by any definition?

I consider pseudoscience a subset of fake news.


Quote:
Oh, please. It says "AlterNet has conistently reported on the connection between cell phones and cancer, which is misleading as there is not a scientific consensus on whether radiation for cell phones causes cancer or not."

And here's an example of them on that topic:
https://www.alternet.org/2018/04/doe...-cause-cancer/
And here is yet another:


https://www.alternet.org/2013/06/rad...ut-cellphones/

...where they interview Devra Davis. More on Devra Davis:

Quote:
Dr. Davis has had an impressive career, if Wikipedia is to be believed, and stayed mostly within the mainstream of science and her field of epidemiology and cancer research. She has won some high profile awards and even shared in the 2007 Nobel Peace prize awarded to Al Gore and 400 of Dr. Davis’ fellow lead authors of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. It is unfortunate, therefore, that her new book Disconnect: The Truth About Cell Phone Radiation, What the Industry Has Done to Hide it, and How to Protect Your Family hits so far off the mark. It is a hodge-podge of cherry picked and mis-represented science that reveals more about Davis’ individual ideological outlook than it ever does about the current state of the scientific consensus.
From http://www.skepticnorth.com/2010/12/...cience-part-i/



Quote:
Alternet is not "fake news" by any definition.

It certainly looks like pseudoscience fake news to me.

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Old 7th May 2019, 12:20 PM   #781
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
wareyin and quadraginta, not me.
Honestly, I'd never heard of her til today. Seems to be pretty common. But, I don't run in conspiracy theorist circles, nor is astrology on my radar.
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Old 7th May 2019, 12:35 PM   #782
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
wareyin and quadraginta, not me.

I already went back to "how we got there" and apologized to "quad". Your posts have been less than helpful. Although I find it a bit amusing that we now have two pages obsessing about Caitlin Johnstone. This is more than the usual amount of outrage she creates with her hard-hitting analysis.
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Old 7th May 2019, 01:02 PM   #783
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I already went back to "how we got there" and apologized to "quad". Your posts have been less than helpful. Although I find it a bit amusing that we now have two pages obsessing about Caitlin Johnstone. This is more than the usual amount of outrage she creates with her hard-hitting analysis.
Actually, it looks more like it was a persistent (at least initially) refusal on your and kellyb's parts to refuse the truth about her, as well as Google;s "censorship".
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Old 7th May 2019, 01:38 PM   #784
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Because she is a writer of nonsense. Astrology was her most successful foray into nonsense. "Rogue journalist" is her latest nonsensical writing path.
Indeed, my google hit comes up with her public facebook profile;

Quote:
Caitlin Johnstone - Home | Facebook

https://en-gb.facebook.com › Pages › Public figure › Writer
Caitlin Johnstone. 28912 likes · 8234 talking about this. Rogue journalist. Bogan socialist. Anarcho-psychonaut. Guerrilla poet. Utopia prepper. You...
...have been warned about the reliability of her from her own words
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Old 7th May 2019, 02:06 PM   #785
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Originally Posted by Cabbage View Post
Actually, it looks more like it was a persistent (at least initially) refusal on your and kellyb's parts to refuse the truth about her, as well as Google;s "censorship".

Maybe to you, but that doesn't matter. Never forget that there's no thing like bad publicity.
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Old 7th May 2019, 02:45 PM   #786
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Maybe to you, but that doesn't matter. Never forget that there's no thing like bad publicity.
Words Jacob Wohl seems to live by. Although in английский, the phrase is "there's no such thing as bad publicity."
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Old 7th May 2019, 06:26 PM   #787
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Are you claiming that her astrology book was "one of the first things" you found googling her?

Yes.

Quote:
This is obviously untrue.

You're calling me a liar to support your claims?

Not much better than your other claims, I guess.

Quote:
You found some propaganda article where her astrology book was used to smear her.

Further investigation led me to her Twit account, where she discounted her production of the book as simply making a buck, but it took more in-depth searching on my part than simply typing in her name and getting an Amazon page hawking her book on astrology.

Quote:
Written to be found by you.

<snip>

Actually, I have you to thank for finding that. Apparently I should have kept digging to get to the really juicy stuff.


ETA: Apology accepted.
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Old 7th May 2019, 07:06 PM   #788
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I seriously doubt anyone who matters cares that she was into astrology when she was in college, 16 years ago.

I thought the story was that she only wrote it because someone offered her money to do it, and she really needed the gelt. (Not that that is a lot more admirable.)
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Old 7th June 2019, 08:45 AM   #789
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Russian destroyer and a US cruiser had a near-collision:

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/07/p...ntl/index.html

this comes only days after a Russian plane intercepted a US plane over the Mediterranean multiple times:

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/04/p...ean/index.html


I would have expected any other Commander in Chief to comment on such blatant and dangerous provocations.
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Old 7th June 2019, 09:45 AM   #790
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
If you look at the timing and context of the when and how the downranking happened, yeah, it does look like look like (show itself to be, IMO) censorship.
Absolutely not. Google is a tool, and one that a lot of people use to find information. Its aim isn't to be politically correct, mind the feelings of CTers or nutters, or maintain a false balance where everyone receives equal air time regardless of ability, agenda, or qualifications. Its aim is to be useful.

If you ask me if I know of any good blogs on mental health, I'll recommend you the best and most relevant ones I know of. I wouldn't bother naming the ones I've come across that are pretty superficial, have maybe only one or two posts, or aren't interesting for some other reason, and of course, the ones that actively glorify or promote suicidal thoughts, self-harm, or eating disorders would be very far down the list.

If I am in the market for a new camera, and I ask you if you know of any good YouTube camera review channels, should you promote the ones with professionals giving honest in-depth reviews, or do you want the one with a guy who bought his first camera and is sort of amazed by it muttering into his cheap microphone in a poorly lit room? What about the "influencer" chick who waxes ecstatic about the new digital camera she's been given for free in return for a (positive) review on YouTube?

Of course, none of the above is "censorship". "Censorship", like "freedom of speech", (ETA: and "threats to democracy") is a term that's gradually been losing meaning over the years as it's been applied more and more ridiculously broadly, but at its heart, it's when someone says, "sorry, you can't say or publish this". If I published a post on my Wordpress blog and Google through nefarious NWO-Jew-Obama-Reptile-Feminist black magic made my post disappear, that would be censorship.

Google sorting search results to the best of its ability is not "censorship" and never was. Some sources will always be on top, and some will always be farther down. So I suppose that by your definition, Google is always censoring, since only a few pages of the billions of candidates out there land on Page 1 of any given search result .

PS: the biggest irony is that across the board, CTer, alt-right, and alt-medicine sites far more often smear and send hate mail to opponents, delete comments, and ban users from their groups than do the "mainstream" media outlets and groups across the Internet and social media.
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Old 7th June 2019, 09:49 AM   #791
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Indeed, my google hit comes up with her public facebook profile;

...have been warned about the reliability of her from her own words
"How dare you present this rogue anarcho-prepper as an astrologist! Clearly a smear campaign!"
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Old 1st August 2019, 02:55 AM   #792
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https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/...27207965593601

Quote:
NEW: Two former top staffers to Mitch McConnell have lobbied Congress and Treasury on the development of a new Kentucky mill backed by Russian aluminum giant Rusal. McConnell's office won't say whether he's been lobbied by them directly.
w/@theodoricmeyer
Article embedded in tweet.

https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/...34491156385792

Quote:
Rusal was only able to make the $200M investment after it won sanctions relief from Treasury earlier this year.

Attention over the sanctions relief deal has focused on McConnell, given his role in halting a bipartisan congressional effort to stop the sanctions rollback.
https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/...77931399299073

Quote:
Just in: Sen. @RonWyden statement on our @politico story about McConnell’s former staffers lobbying for the Russian-backed Kentucky mill project: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...roject-1442550
Statement embedded in tweet.
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Old 1st August 2019, 02:58 AM   #793
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https://twitter.com/RusEmbUSA/status...92980180410368

Quote:
US President Donald Trump, in phone talks with Vladimir Putin, offered assistance to Moscow in fighting wildfires in Siberia. The Russian president viewed Trump's offer as a sign that fully-fledged bilateral relations could be restored in the future
��https://www.facebook.com/48764518811...71242043086185 … ��������
https://twitter.com/sam_vinograd/sta...34603480010752

Quote:
We wonder why Putin sees "signs" that fully fledged bilateral relations will be restored:
---- Trump wanted to cut resources for wildfire relief in CA but wants to give Putin support to fight fires in Russia.
I wonder what kind of assistance is being spoken of? If it's financial, then that's very dodgy.
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Old 1st August 2019, 08:24 AM   #794
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/...27207965593601
NEW: Two former top staffers to Mitch McConnell have lobbied Congress and Treasury on the development of a new Kentucky mill backed by Russian aluminum giant Rusal. McConnell's office won't say whether he's been lobbied by them directly.

https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/...34491156385792
Rusal was only able to make the $200M investment after it won sanctions relief from Treasury earlier this year.

Attention over the sanctions relief deal has focused on McConnell, given his role in halting a bipartisan congressional effort to stop the sanctions rollback.
Remember the good old days when the republicans and the right wing media were complaining about Hillary, Uranium 1, and supposed pay-to-play? That was a made-up scandal, but this one appears to be almost identical, with one major difference: it looks like its real.

Lets see:
- High ranking politician (Moscow Mitch)
- grants special permission (sanction rollback)
- To a Foreign (russian backed) entity (Rusal, owned by an oligarch associated with Putin)
- In exchange for something of value (new Aluminium plant in Kentucky)
- Even though there are strategic implications (Trump claimed he needed to implement steel and Aluminium tariffs because he needed to 'protect' the U.S.)
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Old 20th August 2019, 07:52 AM   #795
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https://twitter.com/EllenLWeintraub/...29772590387203

Quote:
BREAKING: @FEC's Republicans block all investigation of & enforcement against Russians Torshin & Butina re the NRA & the 2016 presidential election.

Result: FEC does nothing to find out the truth behind one of the most blockbuster campaign finance allegations in recent memory.
Documents embedded in tweet and following tweet.
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Old 20th August 2019, 09:07 AM   #796
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
https://twitter.com/EllenLWeintraub/...29772590387203

Documents embedded in tweet and following tweet.
In a shocking turn of events it would appear illegal activity is being covered up by the Republicans, and as a consequence...*checks notes* jack **** will happen!
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Old 20th August 2019, 09:36 AM   #797
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
In a shocking turn of events it would appear illegal activity is being covered up by the Republicans, and as a consequence...*checks notes* jack **** will happen!
Exactly.

Americans have got to take control of their government, and fast. You've got to vote these traitors out of office and restore sanity to Congress before you lose democracy altogether.
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Old 20th August 2019, 09:48 AM   #798
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
In a shocking turn of events it would appear illegal activity is being covered up by the Republicans, and as a consequence...*checks notes* jack **** will happen!
What do you mean nothing will happen? Lots of stuff will happen!

Moscow Mitch will one again state that he and the GOP are not traitors.

Trump will use it as a call to instate voter ID laws.

See? Lots of stuff will happen!
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Old 20th August 2019, 09:50 AM   #799
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Exactly.

Americans have got to take control of their government, and fast. You've got to vote these traitors out of office and restore sanity to Congress before you lose democracy altogether.
You will get absolutely no argument from me at all.

Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
What do you mean nothing will happen? Lots of stuff will happen!

Moscow Mitch will one again state that he and the GOP are not traitors.

Trump will use it as a call to instate voter ID laws.

See? Lots of stuff will happen!
Positive*. Nothing positive will happen!
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Old 20th August 2019, 09:52 AM   #800
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Exactly.

Americans have got to take control of their government, and fast. You've got to vote these traitors out of office and restore sanity to Congress before you lose democracy altogether.
Yes, and there is no reason why the head of state shouldn't be bound by normal laws, except in exceptional circumstances.

Getting rid of a monarch was a good idea. Giving the powers of a monarch to another person wasn't.
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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