ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 18th May 2019, 04:07 AM   #41
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 18,117
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I'm willing to believe that Trump doesn't hate gays, certainly not the way he does Blacks, Hispanics, and Muslims. His problem is going to be that most of his core supporters do. He'll probably have to change course to avoid losing votes. That's certainly never bothered him before.
I think Trump expects gay people to act like the stereotypical gay person who works in the hospitality industry. I think he expects Jews to be good with money. He expects black people to do the menial jobs around his properties and he expects Hispanics to do housekeeping. I don't think he hates people, he's just assigned them roles and expects them to fit those roles. He probably hates Buttigieg because they guy isn't a waiter.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th May 2019, 05:58 AM   #42
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,199
Trump just doesn't consider anyone but himself (and maybe Ivanka) to be human in the first place.
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th May 2019, 07:20 AM   #43
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
 
Ladewig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 26,452
Originally Posted by Cavemonster View Post
It's not the people or groups that Trump personally loves or hates that concern me. I don't know if he truly believes in anything except himself. It's that he's happy to accommodate and weaponize and feed the racism that's prevalent in his base to empower himself.
Yep!
__________________
I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly.
Ladewig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th May 2019, 09:04 AM   #44
Brainster
Penultimate Amazing
 
Brainster's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 16,518
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
And wasn't that sweet of them. Unless you think it's a problem. Are you saying it's a problem???
No surprise, you only hear the dog whistles when a Republican uses them.
__________________
My new blog: Recent Reads.
1960s Comic Book Nostalgia
Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.
Brainster is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th May 2019, 10:44 AM   #45
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 85,991
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
No, not really:
Fox News’ Steve Hilton asked Trump whether he thinks “it’s just great” to have it “not even seen as a big deal” for a male presidential candidate to be onstage with his husband.

“I think it’s absolutely fine,” Trump responded in a clip that was posted on Thursday. “I think that’s something that perhaps some people will have a problem with. I have no problem with it whatsoever. I think it’s good."

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...usband-1329624
And today?
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2019, 04:22 AM   #46
Seismosaurus
Philosopher
 
Seismosaurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 5,814
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
No, not really:
Fox News’ Steve Hilton asked Trump whether he thinks “it’s just great” to have it “not even seen as a big deal” for a male presidential candidate to be onstage with his husband.

“I think it’s absolutely fine,” Trump responded in a clip that was posted on Thursday. “I think that’s something that perhaps some people will have a problem with. I have no problem with it whatsoever. I think it’s good."

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...usband-1329624
News at 11... Greatest liar in US political history tells a lie.
__________________
Promise of diamonds in eyes of coal
She carries beauty in her soul
Seismosaurus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2019, 05:27 AM   #47
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 18,117
Originally Posted by Seismosaurus View Post
News at 11... Greatest liar in US political history tells a lie.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/17/polit...uttigieg-lgbt/

The way Mayor Pete handled this in the town hall (in the video over the article) should worry Trump. He's going to make Trump his bitch.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2019, 06:40 AM   #48
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 21,442
As I said before, I'm willing to believe Trump doesn't personally hate gays. I would also bet money that a majority of his die-hard supporters do. I hope that becomes a problem for him.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2019, 07:22 AM   #49
BobTheCoward
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 16,794
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
As I said before, I'm willing to believe Trump doesn't personally hate gays. I would also bet money that a majority of his die-hard supporters do. I hope that becomes a problem for him.
I went looking on Breitbart for this story and I couldn't find it. I think they have a good strategy for not letting it be a problem.
BobTheCoward is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2019, 08:33 AM   #50
Lurch
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 777
Indeed. Trump can blab his heart out to the 'Fake News Liberal Media', knowing how his Base is unlikely to suffer exposure, and how Fox & co will ignore or spin anything anyway.

What a good thing the Orange Excrescence has going with the information bubble within which his Base has willingly contracted. His minions can compartmentalize the Fuhrer's messages that help or hinder. The cult followers get their diet of reinforcing bile while the rest see the contradictions.
Lurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2019, 01:57 PM   #51
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 34,777
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And today?
Crime novelist Lawrence Block has been writing stories with openly gay characters since the 70s at least.

So has Armistead Maupin.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2019, 01:58 PM   #52
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 34,777
Originally Posted by Seismosaurus View Post
News at 11... Greatest liar in US political history tells a lie.
Just like the pussy grabbing lie?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2019, 02:13 PM   #53
Lurch
Muse
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 777
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Just like the pussy grabbing lie?
Riiiiiight. A congenital liar can *never, ever, once* say a truthful thing. Now, there's a good chance the Toad was at least exaggerating, like insecure, immature louts have done since year dot.

Are you insinuating that a position adopting that an person is a pathological liar cannot admit to the possibility of an occasional nugget of truth being uttered? Humans are not so infallibly robotic in their consistency; the most honest person will tell the odd lie, and the most dishonest the occasional truth.
Lurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2019, 03:16 PM   #54
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 23,491
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
No surprise, you only hear the dog whistles when a Republican uses them.
Dog whistle? This was in 2004, right? Back when Republicans were trying to use gay marriage as a wedge issue by putting gay marriage bans on the ballot.
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2019, 04:45 PM   #55
Cabbage
Graduate Poster
 
Cabbage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,120
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Just like the pussy grabbing lie?
This is the position of a simpleton who is only capable of seeing black and white, no gray.
Cabbage is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2019, 04:55 PM   #56
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
 
kookbreaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,064
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Just like the pussy grabbing lie?
You are honestly not understanding the problems with Trump’s statement?
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun!

Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.
kookbreaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2019, 04:55 PM   #57
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 7,511
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Just like the pussy grabbing lie?
Much of a selective memory there?

Quote:
At least 23 women have accused President Donald Trump of sexual misconduct since the 1970s.

Trump has repeatedly denied all of the accusations, calling the women "liars."

Most recently, former Trump campaign staffer Alva Johnson filed a federal lawsuit against Trump in February 2019 alleging that he kissed her without her consent at a 2016 campaign event.
Quote:
As a national conversation on sexual misconduct is gripping the country from Hollywood to Capitol Hill, some renewed attention has been focused on the sexual misconduct allegations that at least 23 women have made against Trump since the 1970s.

A deluge of women made their accusations public following the October 2016 release of the "Access Hollywood" tape, in which Trump was recorded boasting about grabbing women's genitals in 2005. Some others made their stories public months before the tape's release, and still others came forward in the months following.

Trump has dismissed all of the allegations — which include ogling, harassment, groping, and rape — as "fabricated" and politically motivated accounts pushed by the media and his political opponents, and promised to sue all of his accusers. In some cases, he and his lawyer have suggested that Trump didn't engage in the alleged behavior with a certain woman because she was not attractive enough.
https://www.businessinsider.com/wome...t-list-2017-12
Stacyhs is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2019, 04:58 PM   #58
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 7,511
Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
You are honestly not understanding the problems with Trump’s statement?
Now, now...it was 'only' locker room talk so it's perfectly acceptable. After all, pigs will be pigs!
Stacyhs is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2019, 05:01 PM   #59
Shalamar
Dark Lord of the JREF
 
Shalamar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Somewhere Else
Posts: 4,509
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Now, now...it was 'only' locker room talk so it's perfectly acceptable. After all, pigs will be pigs!
Also acceptable because a Republican said it.
__________________

"The truth is out there. But the lies are inside your head."
Shalamar is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2019, 05:06 PM   #60
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
 
kookbreaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,064
Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Also acceptable because a Republican said it.
Oh right. Dang, I guess it’s time for another apology to Cheney for making hmi shoot me in the face.
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun!

Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.
kookbreaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2019, 09:40 PM   #61
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,199
Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Oh right. Dang, I guess it’s time for another apology to Cheney for making hmi shoot me in the face.
You better, or he'll shoot you in the knee cap - for your own good of course.
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th May 2019, 11:57 PM   #62
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,025
Trump loves the LGBT community so much that he appointed Pence as his VP. With Pence's help, Trump hopes to cure them of their sexual depravities.
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2019, 05:08 AM   #63
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,413
Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
I gather that Trump holds--or at least held--many liberal views, having spent much of his life hanging around in the celeb/arts/sports sphere.
Come on there is to evidence that Trump holds any true views other than the greatness of Trump. Maybe white supremacy but aside from that it is what ever he thinks will make him look best at the time.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2019, 05:14 AM   #64
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,413
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
No surprise, you only hear the dog whistles when a Republican uses them.
Yea this was as bad as all that pointing out the anti abortion politicians who pressure their mistresses to have abortions. How ones political views impact their personal life is totally out of bounds.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2019, 05:15 AM   #65
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,413
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
As I said before, I'm willing to believe Trump doesn't personally hate gays. I would also bet money that a majority of his die-hard supporters do. I hope that becomes a problem for him.
Why? You think Trump would take some moral stand against his base?
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2019, 05:19 AM   #66
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,413
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Just like the pussy grabbing lie?
Trump lies to get people to like him. So he says what he thinks would go over well in any situation. Why does bragging about sexual assault as a lie become so much better in a candidate than doing all the sexual assault he has long bragged about, like walking into changing rooms of miss teen universe?

Does supporting a candidate who likes people to think he commits sexual assault because of his power really better than one who does it?

Really lying might make him not a criminal but why does that make bragging that you commit sexual assault a ok trait in a leader?
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2019, 05:48 AM   #67
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 49,090
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Trump lies to get people to like him. So he says what he thinks would go over well in any situation. Why does bragging about sexual assault as a lie become so much better in a candidate than doing all the sexual assault he has long bragged about, like walking into changing rooms of miss teen universe?

Does supporting a candidate who likes people to think he commits sexual assault because of his power really better than one who does it?

Really lying might make him not a criminal but why does that make bragging that you commit sexual assault a ok trait in a leader?
I think it says a lot about Trump that his defenders' best defense of him is that he's an insane liar. That's the most positive thing they can come up with.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2019, 07:46 PM   #68
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 18,117
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Just like the pussy grabbing lie?
If the stupid bitch you're so enamored of doesn't like being called president pussy grabber, he should gave kept his mouth shut. It's his own fault he gets called that. Who cares if he really did it or not?
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2019, 08:17 PM   #69
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
 
thaiboxerken's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,025
It's weird that Trump cultists are defending Trump by saying he was just telling a lie about that.....
__________________
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine
thaiboxerken is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2019, 09:45 PM   #70
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,928
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I think Trump expects gay people to act like the stereotypical gay person who works in the hospitality industry. I think he expects Jews to be good with money. He expects black people to do the menial jobs around his properties and he expects Hispanics to do housekeeping. I don't think he hates people, he's just assigned them roles and expects them to fit those roles. He probably hates Buttigieg because they guy isn't a waiter.
And?

Again, white supremacism (and yes, anti-LGBT bigotry is worked into what this ultimately is) in the US isn't about genocidal hatred. It has *always* been about money. The design is to take land from Native Americans, and labor from black Americans, and funnel the proceeds to a specific group of white people. The guys fuming about "welfare cheats" and cheering killer cops or George Zimmerman today are just the chumps that help out, just like the ignorant unionists that refused to accept black members before them, and the sustenance farmers who eagerly fought for the Confederacy before them, and the same farmers on slave patrols before *them*. If they were thinking rationally, they'd team up with black people in each case, but they've been more interested in being "over" black people than in aiding themselves.

How would LGBT people work into this? Another underclass to exploit, another group to distract the sustenance farmers with. Think a wealthy white LGBT person will suffer? Ha! It's the black trans woman that gets killed, the gay white guy that gets denied jobs and housing. Dolt 45 is just more obvious about it, since he's a dimwitted malignant narcissist.

Last edited by Mumbles; 20th May 2019 at 09:46 PM.
Mumbles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st May 2019, 12:15 AM   #71
Roger Ramjets
Illuminator
 
Roger Ramjets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,025
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Come on there is [no] evidence that Trump holds any true views other than the greatness of Trump. Maybe white supremacy but aside from that it is what ever he thinks will make him look best at the time.
Not true.

Central Park jogger case
Quote:
On May 1, 1989, real estate magnate Donald Trump called for the return of the death penalty when he took out full-page advertisements in all four of the city's major newspapers. Trump said he wanted the "criminals of every age" who were accused of beating and raping a jogger in Central Park 12 days earlier "to be afraid"... In a 1989 interview with CNN, Trump said to Larry King: "The problem with our society is the victim has absolutely no rights and the criminal has unbelievable rights" and that "maybe hate is what we need if we're gonna get something done."

In October 2016, when Trump campaigned to be president, he declared that the Central Park Five were guilty and stated that their convictions should never have been vacated.
These are not the words and actions of someone who does 'what ever he thinks will make him look best at the time'. It shows that he does have strong convictions about certain subjects. And if you actually listen to what he says, you will find that he doesn't just say things to make himself look good. When Trump described Mexican immigrants as criminals and rapists, when he talked about **** hole countries, when he insisted that Obama wasn't a real American - he didn't take those positions just to look good.

Some people argue that Trump just says things that he thinks his base wants to hear. I don't think that's true. I think his 'base' only exists because he was already saying those things - even before he knew there was a group who wanted to hear it. IOW, he's one of them.
__________________
We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.
Roger Ramjets is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st May 2019, 02:08 AM   #72
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
 
Ladewig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 26,452
Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Not true.

Central Park jogger caseThese are not the words and actions of someone who does 'what ever he thinks will make him look best at the time'. It shows that he does have strong convictions about certain subjects. And if you actually listen to what he says, you will find that he doesn't just say things to make himself look good. When Trump described Mexican immigrants as criminals and rapists, when he talked about **** hole countries, when he insisted that Obama wasn't a real American - he didn't take those positions just to look good.

Some people argue that Trump just says things that he thinks his base wants to hear. I don't think that's true. I think his 'base' only exists because he was already saying those things - even before he knew there was a group who wanted to hear it. IOW, he's one of them.
You start by saying “not true” in response to a claim that Trump focuses on saying what will make him look good and a speculation that he sometimes verbalizes apparently-sincere white-supremacist beliefs. But the three example you give (Mexican rapists, ****hole African countries, and President Obama not a real American) are the things a white bigot would say. It sounds as if you agree with ponderingturtle’s theorizing.
__________________
I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly.
Ladewig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st May 2019, 03:30 AM   #73
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,413
Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Not true.

Central Park jogger caseThese are not the words and actions of someone who does 'what ever he thinks will make him look best at the time'. It shows that he does have strong convictions about certain subjects. And if you actually listen to what he says, you will find that he doesn't just say things to make himself look good. When Trump described Mexican immigrants as criminals and rapists, when he talked about **** hole countries, when he insisted that Obama wasn't a real American - he didn't take those positions just to look good.

Some people argue that Trump just says things that he thinks his base wants to hear. I don't think that's true. I think his 'base' only exists because he was already saying those things - even before he knew there was a group who wanted to hear it. IOW, he's one of them.
Oh yes his racism is far beyond what is needed to appeal to his base. He was even upset that they got released just because they were innocent! Add in his fixation on what other members of his family have accomplished and how that makes him smarter and white supremacy is pretty easy to show. There is also his love of nazi twitter for example.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st May 2019, 07:19 AM   #74
Drewbot
Philosopher
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,016
Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
How else can you possibly interpret this? "Some people" is how Trump refers to himself. "Some people will have a problem with it" means "I personally have a problem with it and will bring it up at literally every opportunity."
Sure, a mind reader might be able to interpret it that way.
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st May 2019, 07:35 AM   #75
Hellbound
Merchant of Doom
 
Hellbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 13,494
Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Sure, a mind reader might be able to interpret it that way.
ERROR: File Not Found.
__________________
Ideologies separate us. Dreams and anguish bring us together. - Eugene Ionesco
Hellbound is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st May 2019, 07:39 AM   #76
wareyin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,866
Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Sure, a mind reader might be able to interpret it that way.
Also, anyone who has paid any attention to Trump using that exact phrase to advance his own views since he has been in the public eye should be able to interpret it that way. But sure, pretend it takes mind reading, if that helps you deny the obvious.
wareyin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st May 2019, 08:03 AM   #77
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,002
The question is not what Trump says about it, but what do his supporters think he believes? Irrespective of what we could think about Trump's comments, white supremicists believe he is on board with them. What do anti-gay bigots think about Trump's position? Do they believe he is anti-gay and has their backs? If so, then who are we to argue with them?

If anti-gay people think you are one of them, then it's up to YOU to change their mind, not me. Unless you are ok with it.
__________________
"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets
pgwenthold is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st May 2019, 08:04 AM   #78
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 82,207
Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Sure, a mind reader might be able to interpret it that way.
You know how we read people's minds? By looking at what they say and how they act.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd May 2019, 06:24 AM   #79
Toontown
Philosopher
 
Toontown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 6,595
It is significant that Trump taking a reasonable position is considered threadworthy.

Other than that, the thread is a dead bust.

My use for Trump's positions is limited to using him for a reverse truth-o-meter or determining what it is that he is trying to conceal or indoctrinate his Trumpkins about at the moment.

However, there is a method to those uses. In the absence of other information, one may rule out what Trump says with (roughly) 75% certainty. That's not quite enough, but one usually does have other information which can be factored in.

But that's for another thread.
__________________
"I did not say that!" - Donald Trump

Last edited by Toontown; 22nd May 2019 at 06:43 AM.
Toontown is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd May 2019, 07:15 AM   #80
ahhell
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,328
Trump has had a more consistent position on Gay Marriage than either of the previous two dem presidential candidates.

Trump is a douche bag, everyone knows that. We've had a number of douchebags as president and it was democratic administration where the dems basically said, it doesn't matter. Blah Blah Blah, different time except I know guys that were court martialed(captains masted) for much less sexual impropriety at the time. Tu Toque, sure but it highlights the hypocrisy on the matter.

Trump never said he had grabbed women by the pussy. He said he could get away with it. A very douchey thing to say, if I had been in the room I'd have found a reason to leave and assumed he was one of the many douchebags that are full **** regarding there sexual history.

Is there a rape allegation other than the one by his wife during a divorce that was later retracted?

Side note, I've been "Sexually Assaulted" myself, a couple of times. A dude literaly grabbed my by the cock and got a away with it. A few women have kissed me without permission too.

If he hates Mayor Pete, its on account of Mayor Pete being such a good politician, he's easily the best in the race. If he starts getting traction, will see Trump actually attacking him. There is literally now reason to think Trump is a homophobe, I have no doubt he's willing to pander to homophobes though. I suspect if he thinks he needs to, he will totally bust homophobic slurs and what not.

Trump does seem to have a few convictions. He seems to have believed trade and trade deficits are bad since the 80s at least. So, mildly amusing that the only thing I have confidence he actually believes, he's clearly wrong about.

Last edited by ahhell; 22nd May 2019 at 07:20 AM.
ahhell is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:42 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.