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Old 7th July 2020, 07:41 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I honestly think that most Brexiteers are deluded enough to think that if they were in charge of process then Johnny (or Jacques or Johann) Foreigner would have recognised their innate superiority and agreed to all of their terms.

As a result Brexit would have been a resounding success if they had been allowed to lead it.

Because we have (so far) failed to secure the trade deal they want, anyone involved with the negotiation must be a Remoaner fifth-columnist regardless of their professed enthusiasm for Brexit.
Itís probably that they didnít, and likely still donít, understand the benefits of common regulations, customs and trade agreements, travel, etc with other European nations. Because they didnít understand what they were getting, loosing these benefits isnít something they fully understand either. Since they donít understand that loosing these advantages was always going to be a fundamental result of Brexit, they attribute the loss to ďa bad dealĒ.
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Old 7th July 2020, 08:01 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Itís probably that they didnít, and likely still donít, understand the benefits of common regulations, customs and trade agreements, travel, etc with other European nations. Because they didnít understand what they were getting, loosing these benefits isnít something they fully understand either. Since they donít understand that loosing these advantages was always going to be a fundamental result of Brexit, they attribute the loss to ďa bad dealĒ.
I'm not so sure. The clear message sent by the Leave campaign is that the UK and UK citizens would continue to enjoy all the benefits of EU membership - including free trade and free movement - without having to adhere to any of the rules of EU membership unless the UK wanted to.

OTOH, EU citizens would be subject to UK movement restrictions and EU firms trading in the UK would have to abide by UK rules.
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Old 7th July 2020, 01:54 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I'm not so sure. The clear message sent by the Leave campaign is that the UK and UK citizens would continue to enjoy all the benefits of EU membership - including free trade and free movement - without having to adhere to any of the rules of EU membership unless the UK wanted to.

OTOH, EU citizens would be subject to UK movement restrictions and EU firms trading in the UK would have to abide by UK rules.
Brexit supporters only hate one thing more than the EU and that is the suggestion they didn't know what deal they were voting for.

Speak to one and the they will tell you they understood all the issues. They knew exactly what deal they voted for. That tends to be is whatever deal looks most likely at any time. No matter how often that likely deal has changed since 2016. I find at any time the governments preferred deal/ negotiating potion is exactly what they knew would happen and is the very deal* they voted for.


*or no deal as the case has been on a number of occasions.
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Old 7th July 2020, 02:37 PM   #204
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So much for "Today I will introduce a sanctions regime that will target people who have committed the gravest human rights violations. Global Britain will be an even stronger force for good in the world, in the years ahead."


UK to resume Saudi arms sales after humanitarian review
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53324251
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Old 7th July 2020, 02:39 PM   #205
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Also.

The UK government has submitted applications to the EU to create Border Control Posts at Northern Ireland's ports.

Boris Johnson lied you say?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-53320065

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Old 7th July 2020, 02:40 PM   #206
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Brexit is uniting Ireland.
Well done Brexit.
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Old 7th July 2020, 03:08 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Brexit is uniting Ireland.
Well done Brexit.
Yes, that's not good.
Support for Scottish independence is up too.
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Old 8th July 2020, 08:46 AM   #208
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So Cummings, who spent 3 years in Russia pushes through Brexit, slashes the British defences, visits security sites and refuses to release TheRussia Report.
Now he's going to 'sort out' the military.
Nobody smell a rat?


Labour questions Dominic Cummings's links to Russia
Quote:
The shadow foreign secretary, Emily Thornberry, has written to the government with questions about Dominic Cummings’s connections to Russia and the levels of security vetting to which he has been subjected in Downing Street after an official-level whistleblower raised serious concerns.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...s-russia-links
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Old 8th July 2020, 09:09 AM   #209
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letter from Truss to Gove/Sunak which says she's worried that UK borders won't be ready for 2021

She says Ports might not be fully ready, NI protocol unlikely to be ready and UK plans could be challenged at WTO.
She warns there's a risk of smuggling if not all ports are fully prepared.

Also appears to reveal that EU tariffs will be applied to all goods heading to NI from GB from Jan 1 as the dual-tariff system isn't set to be ready on time

Also warns that the government's phased plan for the borders could face "a legal challenge at the WTO" as the plan to give EU temporary preferential treatment in early 2021 could be "be vulnerable to WTO challenge,"

https://www.businessinsider.com/leak...s-risks-2020-7

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Old 8th July 2020, 09:17 AM   #210
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At what point can we reasonably have a conversation about a rogue government acting against the interests of those they are supposed to represent?
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Old 8th July 2020, 09:23 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
At what point can we reasonably have a conversation about a rogue government acting against the interests of those they are supposed to represent?
Never.

They were elected with a thumping majority and, at least in the last election, were very clear about their approach to Brexit.

The British public (I say this because Wales and Scotland also have Tory MPs) voted in the Conservatives with full knowledge of what they intended and/or wilfully ignored all the evidence of what they intended. The government is only doing what the British public said they wanted.

I think you could argue that Boris Johnson Dominic Cummings becoming PM and fundamentally changing the approach to Brexit represented a degree of roguishness but as soon as he was returned with that big majority IMO any such claims fail.

It's a massive failing of the FPTP system that we British seem to love, but the 40 odd percent get to drive the bus off the cliff.
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Old 8th July 2020, 09:38 AM   #212
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In all fairness, mate, there are only 6 Tory MPs in Scotland out of a total of 59. They got a less-than-impressive 25% of the vote, compared to the SNP at 45% and Labour at 18-odds.
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:11 AM   #213
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Liz Truss Tweeted

@trussliz
Delighted to confirm that the UK will be nominating @LiamFox to be the next Director General of the WTO.
We need a fierce champion of free and fair trade, an advocate of multilateralism and someone able to get things done.
Liam brings all that to the table.
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Old 8th July 2020, 10:41 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Liz Truss Tweeted

@trussliz
Delighted to confirm that the UK will be nominating disgraced former defence secretary @LiamFox to be the next Director General of the WTO.
We need a fierce champion of free and fair trade, an advocate of multilateralism and someone able to get things done.
Disgraced former defence secretary Liam brings all that to the table.
FTFY or FTFher
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Old 8th July 2020, 12:07 PM   #215
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Liam Fox tweeted

Dr Liam Fox MP #StayAlert
@LiamFox
I am honoured to have been nominated by @BorisJohnson to be a candidate to lead the @wto. I believe that if we want to keep the WTO relevant and vibrant our task is clear: Update. Strengthen and Reform. We must ensure that global trade works for everyone. https://gov.uk/government/news/uk-no...ral-of-the-wto
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Old 8th July 2020, 11:54 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Architect View Post
In all fairness, mate, there are only 6 Tory MPs in Scotland out of a total of 59. They got a less-than-impressive 25% of the vote, compared to the SNP at 45% and Labour at 18-odds.
True, but they're not entirely absent, and there are six times as many as there were a couple of parliaments ago.
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Old 8th July 2020, 11:58 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Liam Fox tweeted

Dr Liam Fox MP #StayAlert
@LiamFox
I am honoured to have been nominated by @BorisJohnson to be a candidate to lead the @wto. I believe that if we want to keep the WTO relevant and vibrant our task is clear: Update. Strengthen and Reform. We must ensure that global trade works for everyone. https://gov.uk/government/news/uk-no...ral-of-the-wto
I wonder if they're labouring under the misapprehension that Dr Liam Fox holding the post of WTO director general will mean he has the power to make "WTO Terms" the equivalent of a free trade deal with whatever party or parties he stipulates.

Then again Britain's international reputation is such that he stands as much chance of winning as the UK stands of winning Eurovision these days.
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Old 9th July 2020, 12:28 AM   #218
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Yeah, the odds of Fox getting the job are pretty much nil as he clearly has no grasp of foreign trade issues with his support of Brexit.
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Old 9th July 2020, 02:47 AM   #219
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Oh dear - leaky buckets for the win again:
Quote:
Liz Truss letter puts Sunak and Gove on spot

A cabinet row over Brexit has erupted into the open with Liz Truss, the international trade secretary, warning in a leaked letter that the PM’s border plans risk smuggling, damage to the UK’s international reputation and a legal challenge from the World Trade Organization. Truss wrote to the chancellor, Rishi Sunak, and Michael Gove on Wednesday warning of four “key areas of concern” over their plans for the border next January. Gove has unveiled a border regime for traders whereby customs and health checks for goods from the EU would not be imposed immediately and instead be phased in over six months. But Truss warns it would “be vulnerable” as the WTO could object to EU goods being treated differently to those from elsewhere which incur tariffs and quotas. She also raises concerns over smuggling because full checks will not be in place from 1 January. ... snip.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...iefinguk_email
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Old 9th July 2020, 02:58 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
I wonder if they're labouring under the misapprehension that Dr Liam Fox holding the post of WTO director general will mean he has the power to make "WTO Terms" the equivalent of a free trade deal with whatever party or parties he stipulates.

Then again Britain's international reputation is such that he stands as much chance of winning as the UK stands of winning Eurovision these days.
Look on the bright side, if he gets it then at least eventually they'll be someone in the government who actually knows something about the WTO, it will be too late and they won't like what they learn but that can no longer be helped.
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Old 9th July 2020, 03:01 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Oh dear - leaky buckets for the win again:


https://www.theguardian.com/politics...iefinguk_email
How bad have things got when Liz Truss is the voice of reason? I'm one step from digging a bunker (if Nadine Dorris starts making sense I'm grabbing the shovel).
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Old 9th July 2020, 03:06 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Look on the bright side, if he gets it then at least eventually they'll be someone in the government who actually knows something about the WTO, it will be too late and they won't like what they learn but that can no longer be helped.
You think he is capable of learning? His time as part of the crack Brit EU negotiating team doesn't seem to have improved his understanding of the EU!
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Old 9th July 2020, 10:43 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You think he is capable of learning? His time as part of the crack Brit EU negotiating team doesn't seem to have improved his understanding of the EU!
God you're right. How could I have ignored that? Stupid PJ, Stupid!
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Old 9th July 2020, 03:03 PM   #224
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Chris Grayling is going to be overseeing the Russia Report. Yes, that Chris Grayling, the one that gave a company with no boats and terms and conditions pasted from a pizza delivery company a £13.8 million contract to supply us with food in the event of no deal.
He's the one that privatised the probation system which ****** it up so much it cost £171 million to sort out, that's not to mention the number of offences per reoffender increasing by 22%.
He's the one that changed the railway timetables back in 2018 that led to complete chaos with thousands of trains being cancelled, delays everywhere and commuters stranded.

Anyway, he's doing the Russia report.

They're just taking the piss now.

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Old 9th July 2020, 05:57 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Chris Grayling is going to be overseeing the Russia Report. Yes, that Chris Grayling, the one that gave a company with no boats and terms and conditions pasted from a pizza delivery company a £13.8 million contract to supply us with food in the event of no deal.
He's the one that privatised the probation system which ****** it up so much it cost £171 million to sort out, that's not to mention the number of offences per reoffender increasing by 22%.
He's the one that changed the railway timetables back in 2018 that led to complete chaos with thousands of trains being cancelled, delays everywhere and commuters stranded.

Anyway, he's doing the Russia report.

They're just taking the piss now.
"Doing" the Russia Report? It's done, the Intelligence and Security Committee just need to be convened so it can be published, surely to god they haven't put him in charge of the ISC? (Did they hear that an outsiders perspective can be useful and not realise 'intelligence' has two meanings?) Or are they planning to tear up the completed report by competent people and do another one prepared by incompetent toadies?
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Old 9th July 2020, 10:44 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
The account is back now, but no tweets are loading.
The account is back, with updates.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...371372033.html
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Old 10th July 2020, 01:35 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
The account is back, with updates.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...371372033.html
That has to be parody but it is funny
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Old 10th July 2020, 02:24 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
That has to be parody but it is funny
Not really trying to pretend it's real any more. Just slapstick farce. Bit of a dropped ball at the start, mocking the son's inability with French names:

"Seems there was some soft of problem at the Gare Du Nore. He correctly asked to be taken to Montparnasse (I had texted him the name)..."

Misspelling Gare du Nord rather deflates the joke.
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Old 10th July 2020, 02:33 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Not really trying to pretend it's real any more. Just slapstick farce. Bit of a dropped ball at the start, mocking the son's inability with French names:

"Seems there was some soft of problem at the Gare Du Nore. He correctly asked to be taken to Montparnasse (I had texted him the name)..."

Misspelling Gare du Nord rather deflates the joke.
Yes he couldn't quite carry it through to the end, although he's trying to keep it going today with tales of the father's attempts to get reparations from Brussels.

I'll give him a pass on misspelling 'Nord' though as he can't spell 'sort' either.

If it's slapstick farce you want, this parody account ramps it up to 11.
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Old 10th July 2020, 02:41 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
That has to be parody but it is funny
It reminds me a bit of 'Things my Girlfriend and I have argued about' certainly one of the funniest things I've read online for a while.
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Old 10th July 2020, 03:08 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
"Doing" the Russia Report? It's done, the Intelligence and Security Committee just need to be convened so it can be published, surely to god they haven't put him in charge of the ISC? (Did they hear that an outsiders perspective can be useful and not realise 'intelligence' has two meanings?) Or are they planning to tear up the completed report by competent people and do another one prepared by incompetent toadies?
Yup he's been made chair of the ISC
Usually the committee chooses it's own chair but this time he was 'appointed' using some obscure rule.
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Old 10th July 2020, 03:46 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Yup he's been made chair of the ISC
Usually the committee chooses it's own chair but this time he was 'appointed' using some obscure rule.

Rule being "Dom's appointed you".
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Old 10th July 2020, 03:01 PM   #233
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BREAKING: Iran to resume arms sales to genocidal Muslim state, prompting huge concerns for human rights. Surely it's time for the US to intervene.

UPDATE: It's actually the UK selling arms to Saudi Arabia to massacre Yemenis. We're profiting from this genocide so no big deal.
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Old 11th July 2020, 01:13 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
It's done, the Intelligence and Security Committee just need to be convened so it can be published, surely to god they haven't put him in charge of the ISC?
Oh yes they have
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Old 11th July 2020, 01:16 AM   #235
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The government is launching a "Get Ready For Brexit" campaign on Monday

Shockingly, it's going to cost a lot of money and will make importing and exporting goods an absolute nightmare for companies. I'm shocked. Are you shocked? I am.
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Old 11th July 2020, 01:28 AM   #236
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https://twitter.com/BySeagulls/statu...979294208?s=20

Quote:
I'm old enough to remember the last "get ready for Brexit" campaign.
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Old 11th July 2020, 03:11 AM   #237
Darat
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
The government is launching a "Get Ready For Brexit" campaign on Monday

Shockingly, it's going to cost a lot of money and will make importing and exporting goods an absolute nightmare for companies. I'm shocked. Are you shocked? I am.
Why is it going to be expensive? Surely given the current government's refrains about good old British blitz spirit we can reuse previous adverts?



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Old 11th July 2020, 03:23 AM   #238
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Andrea Leadsom says that t was made very clear, in 2016, that people would lose their jobs in the event of a no-deal.

When the leader can lie daily with impunity, there's no reason for the minions to act any differently

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 11th July 2020 at 03:27 AM.
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Old 11th July 2020, 06:29 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Andrea Leadsom says that t was made very clear, in 2016, that people would lose their jobs in the event of a no-deal.

When the leader can lie daily with impunity, there's no reason for the minions to act any differently
Perhaps she means it was made very clear by her opponents. I mean, she may have claimed it was scaremongering nonsense at the time, but that doesn't mean nobody said it.

Don't forget that back in 2016 Vote Leave regarded No Deal as a literal impossibility, since they reassured we voters we were going to negotiate our new deal before we started the process of leaving.

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Old 11th July 2020, 08:50 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Why is it going to be expensive? Surely given the current government's refrains about good old British blitz spirit we can reuse previous adverts?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...990470757c.jpg

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...99055380d4.jpg
Why is Mark Francois on a WWII poster?
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