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Tags police incidents , police issues , police misconduct charges , Portland incidents , Portland issues , protest incidents , protest issues

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Old 17th July 2020, 06:51 PM   #41
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
In other words, people are saying.
I live in Portland. What he is claiming is nonsense.
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Old 17th July 2020, 08:21 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
If you read interviews of people who live in N.Portland, they are glad that something is being done to take back their streets & parks.
Your uncited, unsupported post is so very, very convincing.
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Old 17th July 2020, 08:47 PM   #43
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Vanity Fair: THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS DEPLOYING “SECRET POLICE” AGAINST PROTESTERS IN PORTLAND

A test case????

Quote:
As protests erupted in May following the police killing of George Floyd, Donald Trump vowed that his government would “step in and do what has to be done.” It was an ominous threat, and he made good on it a few days later: As demonstrators in D.C. demanded justice, Attorney General William Barr “[flooded] the zone” with heavily-armed federal law enforcement. The administration’s authoritarian crackdown was disturbing enough. But it was made all the more disconcerting by the fact that it was executed by unidentified police in riot gear.

A similar scene has been playing out in Portland. Federal officials, reportedly wearing camouflage and in unmarked vehicles, have engaged in similar tactics since the president deployed them to the city this month. During a protest Saturday, 26-year-old demonstrator Donavan La Bella was shot in the head with what appeared to be an impact munition, leaving him severely injured. Federal officials, who have continued to fire munitions and tear gas at crowds, have also reportedly begun to seize protesters. On Wednesday, Mark Pettibone, a 29-year-old demonstrator, said he was grabbed off the street by men in military uniforms as he left a peaceful protest, taken by an unmarked gray van to a federal courthouse, and detained without being told why, being charged him with a crime, or being provided with a record of his arrest before he was let go. “I was terrified,” he told the Washington Post.

These tactics have alarmed observers.....
How can anyone think this is OK?
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Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 17th July 2020 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 17th July 2020, 08:51 PM   #44
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It sounds like there are people who refuse to identify themselves who are carrying weapons, threatening people, and possibly assaulting and kidnapping people. That's the kind of situation for which we have police.

The actual Portland police department needs to send officers to the areas where these unidentified individuals appear to be engaging in questionable activities. The police officers need to confront these individuals, ask them to identify themselves, and if these individuals have threatened, assaulted, or tried to haul people away in their vehicles then the police need to take these individuals in to the station for questioning to make sure they are properly authorized to do what they are doing and that they are doing so in a lawful manner.

(At the very least the police need to question these people, get their names, and write up a report about the incident.)

And if these individuals refuse to identify themselves to the police -- with their names, not the name of the agency they claim to be working for -- or if they refuse to accompany the police to the station when ordered to do so -- then charges of refusing to cooperate with the police and of resisting arrest should be added to whatever other charges the police decide to bring against these individuals.
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Old 17th July 2020, 08:51 PM   #45
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Another step toward a banana republic s---hole country.
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Old 17th July 2020, 08:53 PM   #46
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Daily Kos:What Trump is doing in Portland is terrifying, and it's coming soon to a town near you
Quote:
What’s now happening in Portland, Oregon, is a deployment of that strategy. Unidentified men in camouflage uniforms on are on the ground in Portland over the express orders of both the governor and the mayor. And they are taking people off the streets for simply being protesters, no crime required. They aren’t arresting people, because these aren’t really police. This is military rendition. Or even more accurately: extrajudicial kidnapping. It’s happening repeatedly in an American city, and it’s barely bringing notice. Pay attention to Portland: What's going on is a trial run for what Trump is bringing to the rest of the nation.

This isn’t the first version of Trump’s nameless, badgeless, not-so-secret police. Trump did a test run in Washington D.C., where Barr rolled out a “policing force” of various elements taken from the sub-basement of the Justice Department, including forces within the Bureau of Prisons meant to quell uprisings in federal facilities. There was absolutely no justification in deploying these people, and absolutely no chain of command. They reported to Barr and Trump, local officials be damned.

Now a similar force has been deployed in Portland. As The Washington Post reports, a flood of “men in green military fatigues” and driving unmarked vehicles, many of the apparently rental cars, have appeared in areas of Portland. This time, instead of the Bureau of Prisons, the source of the unbadged “police” appears to be the U.S. Marshals Service and Department of Homeland Security—in other words, bounty hunters and border patrol. None of them are trained either in dealing with protests or even ordinary law enforcement. They have already shot one unarmed, peaceful protester, and as the Post account relates, are taking others off the street without charges, and holding them without access to an attorney. They’re behaving as if they are beyond all laws, because, thanks to the backing of Trump and Barr, they absolutely are. That includes laws in Oregon that don’t allow the use of tear gas against protesters—Trump’s un-secret police are using it anyway.
No ******* way is this okay.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 17th July 2020, 09:29 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
If you read interviews of people who live in N.Portland, they are glad that something is being done to take back their streets & parks.
If you read interviews with people who understand the Constitution and the crucial importance of following the proper rules of law in a free country, they are deeply disturbed by these violations of the fundamental principles on which our our civil rights and our country itself are based.
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Old 17th July 2020, 09:37 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Are you saying that the residents of this area have something to fear from these Federal agents making the effort to stop the mayhem around their homes & businesses that has been in evidence for weeks?
As far as I can tell it is the residents who are being kidnapped and abused. And not people creating mayhem but people peacefully exercising their constitutional rights.
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Old 17th July 2020, 10:02 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
If you read interviews with people who understand the Constitution and the crucial importance of following the proper rules of law in a free country, they are deeply disturbed by these violations of the fundamental principles on which our our civil rights and our country itself are based.
In case anyone missed this.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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Old 17th July 2020, 10:12 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I remember reading a tweet where it was claimed the injured man had thrown the gas canister at the police and that's why he was shot. The video clearly shows that did not happen. The canister was thrown toward the protester which landed near him. He then rolled it back on the ground from the direction it came. It was directly after that he was shot with the rubber bullet and severely injured requiring face reconstructive surgery.
I'm sure the DoJ will pay for all medical costs associated with this injury.
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Old 17th July 2020, 10:15 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's a bit of a moot point, since these gestapo types are so heavily armed and in numbers to make any real resistance suicide, but would it even be a crime to resist these people with lethal force?

You basically have non-uniformed people claiming to be cops kidnapping people into unmarked vans. They have been reported to have refused identifying themselves and are arresting people without probable cause.


It would be trivially easy for a bad actor to impersonate these people and kidnap protesters under the pretense of lawful authority.
Some states have very broad stand-your-ground laws. It would be interesting for someone to lethally shoot one of these guys then use a stand-your-ground law as a defense. The right-wingers would be in a real bind regarding who to support. So would the NRA.
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Old 17th July 2020, 10:18 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
Are you saying that the residents of this area have something to fear from these Federal agents making the effort to stop the mayhem around their homes & businesses that has been in evidence for weeks?
Some residents do, some don't. Your question is so broad that it is meaningless.
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Old 17th July 2020, 10:36 PM   #53
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Eventually, isn't there any paperwork to indicate which agencies are operators for? It the Patriot Act somehow involved? I read of one guy who requested a lawyer and was soon cut loose. What are people saying who get released? Were they ever interviewed, or booked, or allowed a phone call, or are these shady tactics by secret squads simply to set up fear in the streets and eventually release the person without telling them why they were held.

Are arrestees ever apprised of potential charges and what jurisdiction is bringing them?
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Old 17th July 2020, 11:52 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Nova Land View Post

The actual Portland police department needs to send officers to the areas where these unidentified individuals appear to be engaging in questionable activities. The police officers need to confront these individuals, ask them to identify themselves, and if these individuals have threatened, assaulted, or tried to haul people away in their vehicles then the police need to take these individuals in to the station for questioning to make sure they are properly authorized to do what they are doing and that they are doing so in a lawful manner. .
Isn't the fact that portland police refuse to protect the citizens of portland the very excuse trump is using to send these feds in? I wouldn't hold my breath.

These secret police death squad tactics are disgusting to the extreme, but totally unsurprising given what the portland mayor and police were doing
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Old 18th July 2020, 01:49 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
If you read interviews with people who understand the Constitution and the crucial importance of following the proper rules of law in a free country, they are deeply disturbed by these violations of the fundamental principles on which our our civil rights and our country itself are based.
THIS.

At this moment, the US has a Secret Police force; unidentifiable to anyone, accountable to no one. Its the sort of thing we saw in the Soviet Union and East Germany. I never, ever thought I would see it in the USA.
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Old 18th July 2020, 02:39 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Some states have very broad stand-your-ground laws. It would be interesting for someone to lethally shoot one of these guys then use a stand-your-ground law as a defense. The right-wingers would be in a real bind regarding who to support. So would the NRA.
No, I'm sure they'd be completely shameless about it.
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Old 18th July 2020, 03:56 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
THIS.

At this moment, the US has a Secret Police force; unidentifiable to anyone, accountable to no one. Its the sort of thing we saw in the Soviet Union and East Germany. I never, ever thought I would see it in the USA.
Welcome to TrumpTopia didn't he make America Great again was that the plan all along, I sure thought it was when I heard Jerome Corsi was involved in the Collusion.
Remember just because Mueller didn't prove Collusion doesn't mean it didn't happen with Corsi and his RTV Buddies in person in Italy. It just wasn't electronicly Trackable.
To think an idiot like Corsi could have out smarted the FBI gives me chills.
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Old 18th July 2020, 04:17 AM   #58
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Deputy Secretary of DHS Ken Cuccinelli tells NPR not only are they not stopping the Portland tactics they're going to take them nationwide. https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog...-this-national
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Old 18th July 2020, 04:17 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by webfusion View Post
If you read interviews of people who live in N.Portland, they are glad that something is being done to take back their streets & parks.
And? Most of those cheering on the action of these storm troopers are Trumpanzees.
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Old 18th July 2020, 04:18 AM   #60
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US seems to be in a 'Dirty War' with security forces disappearing people suspected of not being loyal to the regime.
How long before there are mass graves in secluded spots?
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Old 18th July 2020, 04:20 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Isn't the fact that portland police refuse to protect the citizens of portland the very excuse trump is using to send these feds in?
Your question is premised on a lie.

Quote:

These secret police death squad tactics are disgusting to the extreme, but totally unsurprising given what the portland mayor and police were doing
What were the Portland mayor and police doing?
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Old 18th July 2020, 04:28 AM   #62
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Isn’t this the exact scenario all the NRA/2a folks were preparing for?
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Old 18th July 2020, 04:46 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Some states have very broad stand-your-ground laws. It would be interesting for someone to lethally shoot one of these guys then use a stand-your-ground law as a defense. The right-wingers would be in a real bind regarding who to support. So would the NRA.
Stand your ground defense requires that you actually survive long enough to see a court room. These Gestapo are working in coordinated groups and clearly have training in war-fighting. Short of a mass uprising of armed Portlanders, anyone that tries to intervene with a gun is likely to face a violent death.
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Old 18th July 2020, 04:47 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Isn’t this the exact scenario all the NRA/2a folks were preparing for?
NRA types get boners at the possibility of getting to shoot a negro looter from the rooftop of a GameStop but have no appetite for armed conflict with a tyrannical state. Curious.
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Old 18th July 2020, 05:22 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
And? Most of those cheering on the action of these storm troopers are Trumpanzees.
Colluders now This is Treason!
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Old 18th July 2020, 05:40 AM   #66
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What really jumps out at me here is that the US Attorney in Portland is calling for an investigation of what these officers are doing. That means they aren't charging the people they arrest. The USA's office in Portland would be doing the charging. How is it these officers are arresting people and the USA isn't bringing cases? I don't see this going well for DHS.
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Old 18th July 2020, 05:57 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
US seems to be in a 'Dirty War' with security forces disappearing people suspected of not being loyal to the regime.
How long before there are mass graves in secluded spots?
Er... do these people actually disappear or do they pop back up? The first one we heard about a month or two ago reappeared just fine.
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Old 18th July 2020, 06:03 AM   #68
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It's hard to know what Trump's storm troopers are doing with the people they kidnap.
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Old 18th July 2020, 06:11 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Deputy Secretary of DHS Ken Cuccinelli tells NPR not only are they not stopping the Portland tactics they're going to take them nationwide. https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog...-this-national
Compare this to the treatment of the Michigan capitol protesters a couple of months ago, and the message is clear: if you're going to protest, bring lots of guns.
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Old 18th July 2020, 06:20 AM   #70
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Twitter thread on this
https://twitter.com/JesseDamiani/sta...73475771412480


Quote:
Jesse Damiani
@JesseDamiani
Need more context for what's going on in Portland right now? Here's what we know so far.

THREAD
6:09 PM · Jul 17, 2020·Twitter Web App
24.9K
Retweets and comments
27.5K
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Old 18th July 2020, 06:29 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Isn’t this the exact scenario all the NRA/2a folks were preparing for?
These officers do not appear to be violating any laws.
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Old 18th July 2020, 07:07 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
These officers do not appear to be violating any laws.
Seizing and detaining people, even if you later release then unharmed, sounds like kidnapping to me. They appear to have no authority from the state to do this. By what authority are they acting? Perhaps more immediately concerning, when they grab somebody, how do you or anyone else tell that they are "officers"?

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Old 18th July 2020, 07:22 AM   #73
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If the officers aren't bringing the people they detain and arrest before a judge they are violating the law. If the USA in Portland doesn't know what they are doing and is asking for an investigation, clearly these officers aren't bringing they people before a judge. The US Attorney's Office plays rather a key role in the whole, bring someone before a judge thing. DHS is then depriving people of due process of law which is a crime called Deprivation of Rights Under the Color of Authority. When I went to FLETC, the legal instructors were rather clear on this one.
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Old 18th July 2020, 07:41 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
If the officers aren't bringing the people they detain and arrest before a judge they are violating the law. If the USA in Portland doesn't know what they are doing and is asking for an investigation, clearly these officers aren't bringing they people before a judge. The US Attorney's Office plays rather a key role in the whole, bring someone before a judge thing. DHS is then depriving people of due process of law which is a crime called Deprivation of Rights Under the Color of Authority. When I went to FLETC, the legal instructors were rather clear on this one.
As far as I'm aware, Police are able to arrest and detain people for probable cause. If a senior officer or prosecutor determine that further effort is not a good use of resources, the person can be released having never seen a judge.
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Old 18th July 2020, 07:48 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Seizing and detaining people, even if you later release then unharmed, sounds like kidnapping to me. They appear to have no authority from the state to do this. By what authority are they acting? Perhaps more immediately concerning, when they grab somebody, how do you or anyone else tell that they are "officers"?
A) Federal agents do not need state permission to enforce federal law.

B) there does not appear to be a law or Constitutional requirement to identify themselves

https://www.lawfareblog.com/can-law-...ify-themselves
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Old 18th July 2020, 07:55 AM   #76
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Down in Daffy Land, aka FaceBook, there's a rumor that these arrests are theater, designed to stir up anxiety and eventual disorder. Some of the people seen being hauled off are infiltrators, and we're supposed to imagine them as victims.

My head hurts.
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Old 18th July 2020, 07:56 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
A) Federal agents do not need state permission to enforce federal law.

B) there does not appear to be a law or Constitutional requirement to identify themselves

https://www.lawfareblog.com/can-law-...ify-themselves
So you suggest these unidentified gangs of armed men grabbing people off the street and bundling them into unmarked vehicles have probable cause to suspect their targets of federal crimes, but, on reflection, never enough to bring before a judge, so far as we know?

Last edited by Jack by the hedge; 18th July 2020 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 18th July 2020, 07:57 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Er... do these people actually disappear or do they pop back up? The first one we heard about a month or two ago reappeared just fine.
So it's just fine because they were only detained?

OMG, is that what you meant? Or were you just saying they didn't actually disappear?

Seems to me this is either just intimidation, as if that would stop the protests,

or Trump is testing the waters to see how much resistance there is (I don't know if anyone in Trumplandia is that smart)

or it's just a practice run, a training event.

I think it's #1. Trump has no real plan other than bluster.

He's an idiot. This will do nothing but bring more protesters out. Of course that could play into well into his hands: see told you Portland needed the feds to move in.
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Old 18th July 2020, 08:02 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I think it's #1. Trump has no real plan other than bluster.

He's an idiot. This will do nothing but bring more protesters out. Of course that could play into well into his hands: see told you Portland needed the feds to move in.
Not so idiotic then. There might be method in such madness. Raising the stakes and provoking more trouble gives him a bigger target to be seen to get tough with.
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Old 18th July 2020, 08:02 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
These officers do not appear to be violating any laws.


There's this little thing in the Constitution called the 4th Amendment:
Quote:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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Privatize the profits and socialize the losses. It's the American way. That's how Mnuchin got rich. Worse, he did it on the backs of elderly people who had been conned into reverse mortgages. Mnuchin paid zero, took on the debt then taxpayers bailed him out.
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