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Tags assassinations , JFK assassination , John F. Kennedy , Kennedy conspiracies

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Old 4th September 2018, 11:24 AM   #1681
Axxman300
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Okay, okay I'll click on that click bait - whatyugot?
Oh this guy is a winner:

http://noliesradio.org/archives/72325

Quote:
Guest: Dr. Laurent Guyénot, author of the book JFK 9/11 and the terrific new article Who killed Kennedy: CIA, LBJ, or the Truly “Unspeakable”? In that article, Guyénot summarizes much of the best research on the JFK, assassination, and concludes that Michael Collins Piper’s thesis – that Zionists were deeply involved – is far more persuasive than most JFK scholars admit.

Guyénot writes: “..evidence against Israel in John Kennedy’s assassination gains more weight when put into perspective with incriminating elements in the assassination of John’s brother Robert on June 6, 1968… How else can we explain the fact that the patsy accused of the crime, Sirhan Sirhan, was this time a Palestinian young man allegedly motivated by his hatred of Israel?” (Sirhan’s confessed hypnotherapist, Dr. Sydney Gottlieb, was a Jewish Zionist.)
Teh Joooos did it.

This guy is a fountain of quality information:

https://thesaker.is/tag/laurent-guyenot/
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Old 4th September 2018, 01:13 PM   #1682
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Oh this guy is a winner:

http://noliesradio.org/archives/72325



Teh Joooos did it.

This guy is a fountain of quality information:

https://thesaker.is/tag/laurent-guyenot/
Oh yuck, thanks for the answer but as you said 'quality' information indeed.
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Old 5th September 2018, 01:45 AM   #1683
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Oh this guy is a winner:

http://noliesradio.org/archives/72325



Teh Joooos did it.

This guy is a fountain of quality information:

https://thesaker.is/tag/laurent-guyenot/
Wait- what? Is this guy saying that because RFK was killed by an anti-Israeli Palestinian, this shows that JFK was killed by the Israelis? How does that work?
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Old 5th September 2018, 05:50 AM   #1684
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Wait- what? Is this guy saying that because RFK was killed by an anti-Israeli Palestinian, this shows that JFK was killed by the Israelis? How does that work?
His thought process is apparently this:

'Obviously', Sirhan was framed for the shooting of RFK. And just as 'obviously', since Sirhan was a Palestinian, he must have been framed by Israel.

And 'obviously', all the assassinations of the 1960s were connected, which means the killing of JFK was by Israel as well. And that of Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, George Lincoln Rockwell, and anyone else you care to throw into the mix.

It's obvious!

Obviously.

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Old 5th September 2018, 12:35 PM   #1685
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Wait- what? Is this guy saying that because RFK was killed by an anti-Israeli Palestinian, this shows that JFK was killed by the Israelis? How does that work?
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Old 6th September 2018, 01:35 AM   #1686
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
His thought process is apparently this:

'Obviously', Sirhan was framed for the shooting of RFK. And just as 'obviously', since Sirhan was a Palestinian, he must have been framed by Israel.

And 'obviously', all the assassinations of the 1960s were connected, which means the killing of JFK was by Israel as well. And that of Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, George Lincoln Rockwell, and anyone else you care to throw into the mix.

It's obvious!

Obviously.

Hank
Now you put it that way, it's so...well, obvious.

How could I have been so blind?

Is it too late to cancel my NWO membership? I'd like to subscribe to Infowars instead.
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Old 6th September 2018, 10:32 AM   #1687
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Every time I try to leave the NWO I keep getting pulled back in.

Here's a piece dated yesterday about the assassination and how it contributed to where the U.S. is politically today:

http://theconversation.com/world-pol...kennedy-100449

Best part? The author explores the JFK-CT and shows why it's crap-ola, but in a nice brief way. The other great thing about this essay is how there was no way in 1963 that anyone could have predicted what the outcome if JFK's death was going to be.

I know, it's written by a grownup, and not much fun, but still a very interesting read.
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Old 7th September 2018, 10:14 AM   #1688
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Every time I try to leave the NWO I keep getting pulled back in.

Here's a piece dated yesterday about the assassination and how it contributed to where the U.S. is politically today:

http://theconversation.com/world-pol...kennedy-100449

Best part? The author explores the JFK-CT and shows why it's crap-ola, but in a nice brief way. The other great thing about this essay is how there was no way in 1963 that anyone could have predicted what the outcome if JFK's death was going to be.

I know, it's written by a grownup, and not much fun, but still a very interesting read.
It's that -50% Walmart discount, isn't it?
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Old 7th September 2018, 11:16 AM   #1689
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Originally Posted by tinribmancer View Post
It's that -50% Walmart discount, isn't it?
That plus every time I write "Oswald acted alone" I get free cans of chili beans.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:22 PM   #1690
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
That plus every time I write "Oswald acted alone" I get free cans of chili beans.
Now that isn't a bad deal.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:29 PM   #1691
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
That plus every time I write "Oswald acted alone" I get free cans of chili beans.
******

They only gave me matinee movie passes that are only good on Tuesday and Wednesday!
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Old 7th September 2018, 04:15 PM   #1692
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
******

They only gave me matinee movie passes that are only good on Tuesday and Wednesday!
But if you use those Tuesday and Wednesday passes they show insider stock tips instead of previews, plus updates on our mater plan.
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Old 7th September 2018, 04:29 PM   #1693
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
But if you use those Tuesday and Wednesday passes they show insider stock tips instead of previews, plus updates on our mater plan.
And how is mater doing these days?
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Old 7th September 2018, 08:01 PM   #1694
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Originally Posted by Steve View Post
And how is mater doing these days?
The plan now is the start a New, New World Order (NNWO). This time we've added a clause in our bi-laws that states nobody can get a leader elected on a dare.
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Old 8th September 2018, 07:16 PM   #1695
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
******

They only gave me matinee movie passes that are only good on Tuesday and Wednesday!
Hey I'll trade yah all I ever get is time expired small curd cottage cheese in a war surplus can.
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Old 8th September 2018, 10:19 PM   #1696
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What happened to MJ? I was waiting breathlessly for the hext fringe reset, (typo intended)
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Old 9th September 2018, 05:01 AM   #1697
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
What happened to MJ? I was waiting breathlessly for the hext fringe reset, (typo intended)
He went back to the 9/11 subforum.
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Old 10th September 2018, 07:33 PM   #1698
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I know who dunnit it was the cigarette smoking man.
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Old 11th September 2018, 03:06 AM   #1699
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Originally Posted by tinribmancer View Post
He went back to the 9/11 subforum.
No, he's run away from that as well.
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Old 11th September 2018, 08:39 AM   #1700
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The milkman did it (because he wanted some of mrs. Kennedy's ass, so), with a double barrel sawed-off shotgun with a scope attached to it and with the capability to holster sniper bullets (we still have that thing in display over here at Area 51).
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Old 11th September 2018, 12:23 PM   #1701
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Originally Posted by tinribmancer View Post
The milkman did it (because he wanted some of mrs. Kennedy's ass, so), with a double barrel sawed-off shotgun with a scope attached to it and with the capability to holster sniper bullets (we still have that thing in display over here at Area 51).
The assassination was faked by Stanley Kubrick, who not only faked the Apollo moon landings, but also successfully faked the entire Vietnam war (which was staged at Eglin AFB, in Florida).

If you're going to foist a CT, go big or go home.
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Old 11th September 2018, 12:43 PM   #1702
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
The assassination was faked by Stanley Kubrick, who not only faked the Apollo moon landings, but also successfully faked the entire Vietnam war (which was staged at Eglin AFB, in Florida).

If you're going to foist a CT, go big or go home.
My apologies for not being insane.
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Old 11th September 2018, 06:14 PM   #1703
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One trend that I've noticed is the "metaphysical approach".

The case to hand is Ron Unz, the namesake of unz.com, a website wherein he and his circle of associates deliver their own . . . unique . . . views on history and the world.

Not surprisingly, he has expressed his views on the Kennedy assassination:

https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pr...what-happened/

https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pr...ii-who-did-it/

If you can get through this, you will note that he doesn't bother addressing the evidence. The bulk of these long laborious articles is a discussion of all the many organizations that stood to gain by removing JFK, who somehow became an anti-cold warrior, anti-Federal Reserve, anti-American Empire, etc.

And, you will note, he has his circle of followers, who follow his narrative.

Which means he doesn't have to address the evidence, the overwhelming physical evidence of how the assassination was the work of one petty man wanting to be a hero to those he admired -- he has the narrative. And so he doesn't have to say how you are wrong, because he has determined why you are wrong.

So you will have to address (not dismiss) his narrative.

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Old 11th September 2018, 08:46 PM   #1704
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Originally Posted by Major Major View Post
One trend that I've noticed is the "metaphysical approach".

The case to hand is Ron Unz, the namesake of unz.com, a website wherein he and his circle of associates deliver their own . . . unique . . . views on history and the world.

Not surprisingly, he has expressed his views on the Kennedy assassination:

https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pr...what-happened/

https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pr...ii-who-did-it/

If you can get through this, you will note that he doesn't bother addressing the evidence. The bulk of these long laborious articles is a discussion of all the many organizations that stood to gain by removing JFK, who somehow became an anti-cold warrior, anti-Federal Reserve, anti-American Empire, etc.

And, you will note, he has his circle of followers, who follow his narrative.

Which means he doesn't have to address the evidence, the overwhelming physical evidence of how the assassination was the work of one petty man wanting to be a hero to those he admired -- he has the narrative. And so he doesn't have to say how you are wrong, because he has determined why you are wrong.

So you will have to address (not dismiss) his narrative.

But he read two whole conspiracy books on the subject, so he's now obviously an expert on said conspiracy:
"Among other things, occasional references reminded me that I’d previously seen my newspapers discuss a couple of newly released JFK books in rather respectful terms, which had surprised me a bit at the time. One of them, still generating discussion, was JFK and the Unspeakable published in 2008 by James W. Douglass, whose name meant nothing to me. And the other, which I hadn’t originally realized trafficked in any assassination conspiracies, was David Talbot’s 2007 Brothers: The Hidden History of the Kennedy Years, focused on the relationship between John F. Kennedy and his younger brother Robert. Talbot’s name was also somewhat familiar to me as the founder of Salon.com and a well-regarded if liberal-leaning journalist.

None of us have expertise in all areas, so sensible people must regularly delegate their judgment to credible third-parties, relying upon others to distinguish sense from nonsense. Since my knowledge of the JFK assassination was nil, I decided that two recent books attracting newspaper coverage might be a good place to start. So perhaps a couple of years after watching that Oliver Stone film, I cleared some time in my schedule, and spent a few days carefully reading the combined thousand pages of text."
And the 'logic' he expresses isn't anything we're unfamiliar with, as it comes with its own unique begging the question issues. Consider the below, where he assumes the plot to kill Kennedy and uses that assumption to implicate President Johnson in the cover-up:
"Consider a very simple point. If a president is struck down by an unknown group of conspirators, his successor would normally have had the strongest possible incentive to track them down lest he might become their next victim. Yet Johnson did nothing, appointing the Warren Commission that covered up the entire matter, laying the blame upon an erratic “lone gunman” conveniently dead. This would seem remarkably odd behavior for an innocent LBJ. This conclusion does not demand that Johnson was the mastermind, nor even an active participant, but it raises a very strong suspicion that he at least had had some awareness of the plot, and enjoyed a good personal relationship with some of the principals."
Hank
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Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 12th September 2018, 08:15 AM   #1705
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
But he read two whole conspiracy books on the subject, so he's now obviously an expert on said conspiracy:

[snip][/snip]
"Consider a very simple point. If a president is struck down by an unknown group of conspirators, his successor would normally have had the strongest possible incentive to track them down lest he might become their next victim.


This may or may not be the behavior of the new President. He is asserting that his belief is the only possible behavior.
Quote:

Yet Johnson did nothing, appointing the Warren Commission that covered up the entire matter, laying the blame upon an erratic “lone gunman” conveniently dead.
Why was this a remarkable behavior? The new President does not have the same skeletons in the closet as the former.
Quote:

This would seem remarkably odd behavior for an innocent LBJ. This conclusion does not demand that Johnson was the mastermind, nor even an active participant, but it raises a very strong suspicion that he at least had had some awareness of the plot,
Why does this have to be the case? There are many scenarios and again he poses his belief as the only belief.
Quote:

and enjoyed a good personal relationship with some of the principals."
Quote:
Hank
This begs the question, since no proof exists of Johnson's good personal relationship with any of the principals, that is unless those associations were shown later in the readings and Hank for brevity perhaps did not list them. I haven't read the material, but I suspect that no such relationships were evidenced in the reading.

No criticism is/was intended, Hank.
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Old 12th September 2018, 12:06 PM   #1706
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Originally Posted by Major Major View Post
So you will have to address (not dismiss) his narrative.

Unz reveals himself, you just have to skip to the end:


Quote:
For decades following the 1963 assassination, virtually no suspicions had ever been directed towards Israel, and as a consequence none of the hundreds or thousands of assassination conspiracy books that appeared during the 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s had hinted at any role for the Mossad, though nearly every other possible culprit, ranging from the Vatican to the Illuminati, came under scrutiny.
His "reasoning":

Quote:
Given that the Kennedy Administration was widely perceived as pro-Israel, there seemed no possible motive for any Mossad involvement, and bizarre, totally unsubstantiated accusations of such a monumental nature directed against the Jewish state were hardly likely to gain much traction in an overwhelmingly pro-Israel publishing industry.
Motive:

Quote:
Seymour Hersh’s 1991 book The Samson Option: Israel’s Nuclear Arsenal and American Foreign Policy described the extreme efforts of the Kennedy Administration to force Israel to allow international inspections of its allegedly non-military nuclear reactor at Dimona, and thereby prevent its use in producing nuclear weapons.
And...

Quote:
The pressure and financial aid threats secretly applied to Israel by the Kennedy Administration eventually became so severe that they led to the resignation of Israel’s founding Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion in June 1963. But all these efforts were almost entirely halted or reversed once Kennedy was replaced by Johnson in November of that same year.
Then he goes full Eichman:

Quote:
As an example of this strange situation, the bibliography of Talbot’s 2005 book contains almost 140 entries, some rather obscure, but has no space for Final Judgment, nor does his very comprehensive index include any entry for “Jews” or “Israel.” Indeed, at one point he very delicately characterizes Sen. Robert Kennedy’s entirely Jewish senior staff by stating “There was not a Catholic among them.” His 2015 sequel is equally circumspect, and although the index does contain numerous entries pertaining to Jews, all these references are in regards to World War II and the Nazis, including his discussion of the alleged Nazi ties of Allen Dulles, his principal bête noire. Stone’s book, while fearlessly convicting President Lyndon Johnson of the JFK assassination, also strangely excludes “Jews” and “Israel” from the long index and Final Judgment from the bibliography, and Douglass’s book follows this same pattern.
Quote:
By contrast, the Israeli Mossad and the Zionist groups that preceded the establishment of the Jewish state seem to have had a very long track record of assassinations, including those of high-ranking political figures who might normally be regarded as inviolate
I can't post any more without feeling like I need to take an iodine bath.

Okay, lets throw out the mountain of evidence that proves Oswald did it, and pretend it was conspiracy for second.

Israel? The Jews did it? Israel decides to protect its fledgling nuclear weapons program by assassinating the leader of a country armed to the teeth with functional nuclear weapons sitting atop missiles that can reach their country in 45 minutes? Israel is going to go to war with their biggest, most powerfully ally?

Seriously kids, where is Israel in the 1960's without the US having its back?

The thing about any conspiracy is that you can tell a lot about the person advancing said theory by their choice of "True Villain".

Ron Unz hates Jews so Jews are behind every dastardly deed. It's that simple.
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Old 12th September 2018, 07:06 PM   #1707
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Unz reveals himself, you just have to skip to the end:

<snip>


Okay, lets throw out the mountain of evidence that proves Oswald did it, and pretend it was conspiracy for second.

Israel? The Jews did it? Israel decides to protect its fledgling nuclear weapons program by assassinating the leader of a country armed to the teeth with functional nuclear weapons sitting atop missiles that can reach their country in 45 minutes? Israel is going to go to war with their biggest, most powerfully ally?

Seriously kids, where is Israel in the 1960's without the US having its back?

The thing about any conspiracy is that you can tell a lot about the person advancing said theory by their choice of "True Villain".

Ron Unz hates Jews so Jews are behind every dastardly deed. It's that simple.
That's what I mean about addressing his narrative, not getting bogged down in the petty details of shadows or sound recordings or methods of autopsy or functionality of a gun. Those can be disposed of by the narrative: "Your experts are certified as experts by those who plotted the conspiracy; naturally they will support the narrative."

However . . . I recall cartoons from the seventies, showing Yitzhak Shamir slapping the U.S. across the face, then holding out the same hand for more foreign aid. This is another part of that narrative that isn't addressed, because it's easier to argue about the precise wording of evacuation orders/requests/suggestions . . .

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Old 12th September 2018, 10:15 PM   #1708
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There is no narrative, just the evidence.

The evidence is:

President was struck from behind by two 6.5x52mm Carcano rounds, one striking him in the head and killing him.

The bullets were fired from the 6th floor of the TSBD where the Carcano rifle was recovered.

The rifle belonged to Lee Harvey Oswald, whose prints are still on the weapon to this day.

As of this moment Oswald cannot be connected to anyone, not the CIA, not the FBI, not anti-Castro Cubans, not Castro's Cuban Intelligence, not the Mafia, and certainly not Israel.

Before you can rule in a conspiracy you either have to rule Oswald out, or you have to successfully link him to someone else. In 55 years nobody has been able to do this.
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Old 13th September 2018, 04:38 AM   #1709
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I would phrase it as "There is no narrative without the evidence." Otherwise I agree.

That's why we see CTs fail so spectacularly here and everywhere. They have no evidence that implicates anyone but Oswald in the crime, and since Oswald wasn't one to form close relationships, it's exceedingly tough to connect anyone to the crime through Oswald.

And if you can't connect the Mob, the CIA, the KGB, the Mossad, or any other group to Oswald, you can't make a compelling narrative unless you discard all the evidence and simply make something up from scratch.

This is what Unz is apparently doing. Others coming here have tried the same thing in one form or another, pretending to accept the evidence and making the argument - in its simplest terms - that the evidence points to a conspiracy. All have eventually resorted to claiming all (or almost all) of the evidence is tampered with or otherwise illegitimate, destroying their own initial arguments in the process.

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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 13th September 2018, 04:48 AM   #1710
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Originally Posted by Major Major View Post
That's what I mean about addressing his narrative, not getting bogged down in the petty details of shadows or sound recordings or methods of autopsy or functionality of a gun. Those can be disposed of by the narrative: "Your experts are certified as experts by those who plotted the conspiracy; naturally they will support the narrative."
That of course is simply the logical fallacy of Begging the Question, as I'm sure you recognize. You don't get to simply dismiss all the evidence by presuming it's tainted, but that's exactly what the above approach by Unz does.

Using that approach, you can superimpose any fictional narrative you wish on the assassination, from right-wing oilmen to the CIA to anti-Castro (or pro-Castro) Cubans to time-travelers on vacation. Unz superimposes the Jews, but his narrative - divorced as it is from the evidence - has no more validity than any of the other equally fictional narratives.

He says he made up his mind that there was a conspiracy by reading a couple of conspiracy books. Not exactly the best approach. He's assuming the authors don't have any biases and aren't twisting the evidence to fit their beliefs, rather than altering their beliefs to fit the evidence.

It starts and ends with the evidence.


Originally Posted by Major Major View Post
However . . . I recall cartoons from the seventies, showing Yitzhak Shamir slapping the U.S. across the face, then holding out the same hand for more foreign aid. This is another part of that narrative that isn't addressed, because it's easier to argue about the precise wording of evacuation orders/requests/suggestions . . .
What needs to be addressed? Your recollections of an editorial cartoon isn't evidence of Israel's involvement in the assassination. I'm more than a little confused by what point you are attempting to make here.

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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto

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Old 13th September 2018, 05:00 AM   #1711
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
No criticism is/was intended, Hank.
No worries.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto

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Old 13th September 2018, 05:52 AM   #1712
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Originally Posted by Major Major View Post
One trend that I've noticed is the "metaphysical approach".

The case to hand is Ron Unz, the namesake of unz.com, a website wherein he and his circle of associates deliver their own . . . unique . . . views on history and the world.

Not surprisingly, he has expressed his views on the Kennedy assassination:

https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pr...what-happened/

https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pr...ii-who-did-it/

If you can get through this, you will note that he doesn't bother addressing the evidence. The bulk of these long laborious articles is a discussion of all the many organizations that stood to gain by removing JFK, who somehow became an anti-cold warrior, anti-Federal Reserve, anti-American Empire, etc.

And, you will note, he has his circle of followers, who follow his narrative.

Which means he doesn't have to address the evidence, the overwhelming physical evidence of how the assassination was the work of one petty man wanting to be a hero to those he admired -- he has the narrative. And so he doesn't have to say how you are wrong, because he has determined why you are wrong.

So you will have to address (not dismiss) his narrative.

Nyah. His narrative is divorced from the evidence and reality. It can be dismissed quite simply. Assertions unsupported by evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto
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Old 24th September 2018, 01:52 PM   #1713
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Originally Posted by Major Major View Post
One trend that I've noticed is the "metaphysical approach".

The case to hand is Ron Unz, the namesake of unz.com, a website wherein he and his circle of associates deliver their own . . . unique . . . views on history and the world.

Not surprisingly, he has expressed his views on the Kennedy assassination:

https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pr...what-happened/

https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pr...ii-who-did-it/

If you can get through this, you will note that he doesn't bother addressing the evidence. The bulk of these long laborious articles is a discussion of all the many organizations that stood to gain by removing JFK, who somehow became an anti-cold warrior, anti-Federal Reserve, anti-American Empire, etc.
Then Ron Unz has fully accepted the St. John of Kennedy myth. In which evil, nefarious forces have killed the most holy one and deprived us of Eden. Kennedy has the one and only Son of God no-doubt died to save us from our sins. Of course the actual Kennedy was a Cold War Liberal, whose attainment of the Presidency was tainted by possible corruption and whose handling of domestic and foreign affairs was anything but stellar. His death of course resulted in his deification and the torrent of writhing and adoration at his feet that exists to this day.

Quote:
And, you will note, he has his circle of followers, who follow his narrative.
Narrative is far to polite a word instead one should say unhinged fantasy with no evident support.

Quote:
Which means he doesn't have to address the evidence,...
Actually he does have to address the evidence and the fact it doesn't support his fantasy. But then he uses his fantasy has an excuse to ignore / reject the evidence. The fact there no evidence to support his fantasy cannot be ignored. He is in effect trying to create an unfalsifiable argument. In which he can dismiss all counters to his utterly evidence free fantasy with the assertion it is all fake, false and the result of the conspiracy. Thus all evidence against his fantasy can be dismissed out of hand.

We can all quite easily fantasize all sorts of narrative explanations and posit all sorts of fantasy explanations about why there is no evidence for them. There is no reason to take such exercises seriously in the slightest. Unless Ron Unz can show a link between the assassination and those who supposedly benefited from it all we have is fantasy.

To quote an old adage "That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"

Quote:
...the overwhelming physical evidence of how the assassination was the work of one petty man wanting to be a hero to those he admired -- he has the narrative. And so he doesn't have to say how you are wrong, because he has determined why you are wrong.
Nope! Ron Unz doesn't get to shift the burden of proof like that. And Ron Unz does in fact have to say how the assassination happened and how the people he thinks did it did it. His narrative is a fantasy for which he has provided zero evidence. just saying so and so benefited doesn't prove a thing. Just how was it done? Ignoring that means Ron Unz can be ignored. Actually Ron Unz has not "determined" "why you are wrong", he has constructed a fantasy narrative, just like anyone could for just about anything. He has utterly failed to show how it is actually linked to the assassination and has done absolutely nothing to disturb the whole Oswald did it narrative that is massively supported by the evidence. Instead he has constructed a fantasy of an all powerful, omnipotent conspiracy that creates false evidence and that has corrupted virtually everyone in the world it seems to excuse the lack of evidence for his fantasy narrative. This also has the benefit of allowing him to dispense with evidence tout-court. In this way Ron Unz is no different from Flat-Earthers and certain Creationists who posit vast conspiracies, and the mass manufacture of fraudulent evidence and of course the hidden machinations of those who "really" control us. (Elders of Zion, Illuminati, NWO etc.)

Quote:
So you will have to address (not dismiss) his narrative.

Again no! Ron Unz's fantasy is utter nonsense with no evidence to support it and non falsifiable in the way it is constructed. It can be dismissed has the utter nonsense it is.
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Old 24th September 2018, 02:00 PM   #1714
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Originally Posted by Major Major View Post
That's what I mean about addressing his narrative, not getting bogged down in the petty details of shadows or sound recordings or methods of autopsy or functionality of a gun. Those can be disposed of by the narrative: "Your experts are certified as experts by those who plotted the conspiracy; naturally they will support the narrative."
In which case we can dismiss the narrative / fantasy. It is nonsense. Paranoid, conspiracy thinking rubbish designed to dismiss any and all evidence against the conspiracy rubbish.

Quote:
However . . . I recall cartoons from the seventies, showing Yitzhak Shamir slapping the U.S. across the face, then holding out the same hand for more foreign aid. This is another part of that narrative that isn't addressed, because it's easier to argue about the precise wording of evacuation orders/requests/suggestions . . .

What does this have to do with anything?
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Old 24th September 2018, 03:03 PM   #1715
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Originally Posted by Pacal View Post
His narrative is a fantasy for which he has provided zero evidence. just saying so and so benefited doesn't prove a thing. Just how was it done? Ignoring that means Ron Unz can be ignored. Actually Ron Unz has not "determined" "why you are wrong", he has constructed a fantasy narrative, just like anyone could for just about anything. He has utterly failed to show how it is actually linked to the assassination and has done absolutely nothing to disturb the whole Oswald did it narrative that is massively supported by the evidence. Instead he has constructed a fantasy of an all powerful, omnipotent conspiracy that creates false evidence and that has corrupted virtually everyone in the world it seems to excuse the lack of evidence for his fantasy narrative.
His fantasy can be applied to *anything* with equal rigor.

911? The evidence was covered up. All the experts are in the pockets of "them". Ditto for UFOs, Bigfoot, Alien Visitation, the pyramids, or anything else. There is no narrative without evidence. Anything else is just a story.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto

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