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Old 6th September 2018, 06:07 PM   #4041
jonesdave116
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Ummmmm....

everything you've blathered on a about that just can not happen because of the 'diamagnetic cavity' as described above, can indeed happen, because the electric field that is centered on the nucleus.
What electric field centred on the nucleus? What on Earth are you on about? The surface can charge up when the comet is at low activity. That is, before the DC forms. Once it forms, the solar wind has no access to the nucleus. So it becomes irrelevant.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:39 AM   #4042
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You are serious?

You know the papers confirming the electric comet!

like me to dig them out?

Quote:
Fig. 7. Upper left: Observed cometary ion bulk velocities in CSE. Lower left: Observed solar wind proton bulk velocities in CSE, with their
theoretical trajectories. Upper right: Indirectly observed motional electric field. Lower right: Schematics of the three terms of the total electric field
(interpretation).
The root of a comet tail – Rosetta ion observations at comet
67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko


Where is the E ambipolar centred?

and in case you are a bit slow this is the cause of your "diamagnetic cavity"!
Quote:
The third term, the ambipolar electric field Eambipolar , is expected
to be significant close to the nucleus. At zero order, this
electric field points radially outward from the nucleus. It might
be one of the reasons why close to the nucleus the modelled
proton trajectories in Figure 7 depart from the observed velocity
vectors. Another effect arising from the ambipolar term is
a polarisation electric field due to the different motion of the
cometary new-born electrons and ions.
whoo boyo!
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Last edited by Sol88; 7th September 2018 at 12:55 AM.
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Old 7th September 2018, 12:48 AM   #4043
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Comets, still just rocks discharging in the solar plasma!!
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Old 7th September 2018, 04:02 AM   #4044
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You are serious?

You know the papers confirming the electric comet!

like me to dig them out?

The root of a comet tail – Rosetta ion observations at comet
67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko


Where is the E ambipolar centred?

and in case you are a bit slow this is the cause of your "diamagnetic cavity"!


whoo boyo!
Complete and utter piffle. No, it is not the cause of the diamagnetic cavity, and nobody is stupid enough to think it is. Nor has such a thing been written anywhere. Only one person on the planet thinks that, and he hasn't got the foggiest what he's on about. The diamagnetic cavity has disappeared at the time of the tail excursion!
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Old 7th September 2018, 04:37 AM   #4045
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Comets, still just rocks discharging in the solar plasma!!
And here we go again with more made up idiocy. No rock, no discharges. Didn't happen. Grow up.
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Old 7th September 2018, 05:27 AM   #4046
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post

You know the papers confirming the electric comet!
If only there were an actual electric comet model, then we could check the observations to the model.
However, what we now have is that any mention of something electric is a confirmation of the non-existent electric comet model.
The EC community is not even trying.
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Old 7th September 2018, 09:07 AM   #4047
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
The EC community is not even trying.
Oh they are! Very trying indeed.
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Old 7th September 2018, 10:51 AM   #4048
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
And here we go again with more made up idiocy. No rock, no discharges. Didn't happen. Grow up.
Sol88 has nothing, never has and never will, just cut and pasted nonsense
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Old 9th September 2018, 02:14 PM   #4049
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Thumbs down A deluded lie that ices and dust papers confirm his electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
You know the papers confirming the electric comet!
10 September 2018: A deluded lie that ices and dust papers confirm his electric comet insanity
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Old 9th September 2018, 02:25 PM   #4050
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Thumbs down A deluded lie that E. Behar et.al. supports his electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88;12419667 [b
The root of a comet tail – Rosetta ion observations at comet
67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko
[/b]

Where is the E ambipolar centred?

and in case you are a bit slow this is the cause of your "diamagnetic cavity"!
10 September 2018: A deluded lie that E. Behar et.al. states the cause of the real diamagnetic cavity to be his electric comet insanity.
Invalid link fixed: The root of a comet tail - Rosetta ion observations at comet 67P/Churyumov--Gerasimenko by E. Behar et.al.
Quote:
However, as observed 30 km away from the nucleus, these expanding ions are not moving purely radially, and have an additional anti-sunward component. As presented by the same authors, the acceleration of this population could in part result from a radial ambipolar electric field, set up by charge separation between fast moving electrons and slower ions, due to pressure gradients of the spherically outflowing atmosphere.
Part of the delusion is putting the real, observed diamagnetic cavity in quotes.

A delusion that a ambipolar electric field is the cause of the diamagnetic cavity. The cause is the interaction of the solar wind with the cometary coma ions. I suspect that would actually contribute to the existing ambipolar electric field.
Structure and evolution of the diamagnetic cavity at comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko

Another part or the delusion is blatant lying about the ambipolar electric field (matching the paper description). This is an electric field within the plasma of the coma caused by charge separation of lighter electrons and heavier ions plus the obvious pressure gradient from the outgassing of sublimating ices.

An ambipolar electric field is not an insanely repeated delusion of an electric field from the comet nucleus .

Last edited by Reality Check; 9th September 2018 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 11th September 2018, 05:38 AM   #4051
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Ummmmm.....every new paper CONFIRMS that electric fields and related plasma processes are the dominate factors at play here.

The paper CONFIRMING the ELECTRIC COMET model will be whoever puts the paper out modeling

Quote:
The extent of the region in which the ambipolar electric eld may dominate has not been investigated yet, and does not appear as a sharp boundary in the present results. Far from trivial, this topic would most likely require the use of self-consistent fully kinetic numerical models.
Quote:
Numerical models would be appropriate for investigating further this source of electric field, as was done for example by Huang et al. (2018)
Quote:
The third term, the ambipolar electric field Eambipolar , is expected to be signicant close to the nucleus.
E. Behar et al.: The root of a comet tail –Rosetta ion observations at comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko

Quote:
For more detailed studies a proper simulation model is still needed, and our results indicate that important physics will be missed unless electrons and charge accumulation are taken properly into account.
Quote:
The processes we are interested in concern the separation of ions and electrons as they move across the magnetic field.
Size of a plasma cloud matters The polarisation electric field of a small-scale comet ionosphere H. Nilsson

So who’s it going to be tusenfem?

Oh oh annnddd....
Quote:
"Goes without saying that nothing electrical happened."[Jonesdavid116]
Quote:
3.2.Currents flowing in a comet ionosphere
Size of a plasma cloud matters The polarisation electric eld of a small-scale comet ionosphere H. Nilsson

Oh jonesy me ‘ol mate, your getting as bad as reality check
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Old 11th September 2018, 05:49 AM   #4052
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@jd116:
Quote:
Results. Observations of the local plasma density and magnetic eld strength show that the parameter range of the observations agree very well with a signicant polarisation electric eld shielding the inner part of the coma from the solar wind electric eld. The same process gives rise to a tailward directed electric eld with a strength of the order of 10% of the solar wind electric eld.
Size of a plasma cloud matters The polarisation electric eld of a small-scale comet ionosphere


And you believed neutral gas was holding the solar wind back...

Again electric comet model confirmed.

It’s only your stubborn belief in the infallibility of RSI experiment is giving you a bum steer on the bulk density guess.
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Old 11th September 2018, 05:53 AM   #4053
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Old 11th September 2018, 06:14 AM   #4054
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
@jd116: Size of a plasma cloud matters The polarisation electric eld of a small-scale comet ionosphere


And you believed neutral gas was holding the solar wind back...

Again electric comet model confirmed.

It’s only your stubborn belief in the infallibility of RSI experiment is giving you a bum steer on the bulk density guess.
First: there is no electric comet model (unless you can point me to a paper describing the how and what of an EC).
Secondly: you cannot read, your quote says that "a signicant polarisation electric field shielding the inner part of the coma from the solar wind electric field"
It is nowhere stated that the polarization electric field is creating the diamagnetic cavity.
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Old 11th September 2018, 06:17 AM   #4055
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Quote:
It’s only your stubborn belief in the infallibility of RSI experiment is giving you a bum steer on the bulk density guess.
Nope. The fact that the spacecraft didn't crash while in bound orbits is a clue. If you think otherwise, show us the charge needed to keep it in those orbits, as if they were orbiting an object with the measured density of ~ 500 kg.m^3. Can't do it can you? Which is why you are off on another bout of failing to understand papers that have nothing to do with the electric comet impossibility.
Yawn.
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Old 11th September 2018, 06:31 AM   #4056
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
So who’s it going to be tusenfem?
What it is going to be is that you still don't understand what you are quoting (no surprise there). What does the electric comet do? Apparently it is constantly discharging and with that machining the surface of the comet. But to do that you need incredibly strong electric fields, whereas the electric fields that are talked about in all the RPC data are on the order of the thermal energy of the ions with probably the strongest being the solar wind electric field at millivolts per meter.
At a non-active comet, Nordheim et al. estimate that the electric field can become up to +/- 2 V/m (for day/night side) because of surface charging.
This is all not quite the stuff that discharges make.
But then again, you could present an actual electric comet model in which we can read what we should expect in the measurements.

So, now you understand (no probably not) why we say "nothing electric" is happening, as the claims by the EC community are "out of this world" (which then again would be good for space physics). Plasma physicists are well aware of electric fields, but they are also aware of the limitations to the electric fields (or the magnetic fields for what it's worth). So, not every mention of an electric field is a confirmation of the non-existent electric comet model.
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Old 11th September 2018, 01:52 PM   #4057
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
The paper CONFIRMING the ELECTRIC COMET model will be whoever puts the paper out modeling
How is it possible to confirm a model that does not exist? You have been asked over and over on these pages to lay out the ELECTRIC COMET model, but you have declined to do so, or have quoted just about any paper about comet with the word "electric" in it as "confirming" the theory.
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Old 11th September 2018, 09:15 PM   #4058
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
How is it possible to confirm a model that does not exist? You have been asked over and over on these pages to lay out the ELECTRIC COMET model, but you have declined to do so, or have quoted just about any paper about comet with the word "electric" in it as "confirming" the theory.
Guys, I am sorry to inform you that you are all wrong, it has now been confirmed 100% sure that the Electric Comet does exist...

Picture-
Electric Comet


Comfirming paper-
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Old Yesterday, 01:45 PM   #4059
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^^
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Old Yesterday, 01:57 PM   #4060
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Remember a few post back when I asked tusenfem what the new model was...well here they are.

Quote:
Because the gyration scale of the cometary ions is larger than the interaction re- gion, the classical fluid treatment of the plasmas does not apply at 67P, and a kinetic description of the interaction is necessary. In Behar et al. (2018b) the terms “fluid comet” and “kinetic comet” were introduced to separate these two different regimes. As of now, only self-consistent numer- ical models have tackled the interaction between the so-
lar wind and the coma of a “kinetic” comet (Bagdonat & Motschmann 2002; Hansen et al. 2007; Rubin et al. 2014b; Koenders et al. 2016a,b; Behar et al. 2016; Deca et al. 2017; Huang et al. 2018). All these models result in a highly asym- metric plasma environment, in contrast with the classical symmetric picture obtained for more active comets closer to the Sun (Rubin et al. 2014a).
So the “dirtysnowball” model has become the “fluid model” - tusenfems beloved BUT wrong MHD classic Whipple model.

And

The ELECTRIC COMET MODEL HAD BECOME the “Kinetic model” - Sol88’s beloved rock discharging in the solar wind!


Quote:
According to the results by Behar et al. (2018b), it is important to note that the capacity of this simple dynamics to account for the motion of solar wind protons around a comet is increasing with the distance to the nucleus: the far- ther away from the nucleus, the better the model. In other words, physical assumptions on which the physical model is based may start to crumble at the origin (the nucleus) first, leaving the modelled deflection far from the nucleus unaffected.
Solar wind dynamics around a comet

Gigs up jd116!

PS

The Japanese asteroid mission will find there not much difference between asteroids and comets

PSS

The Parker solar probe will confirm the findings by SAFIRE project!
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Old Yesterday, 02:22 PM   #4061
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
How is it possible to confirm a model that does not exist? You have been asked over and over on these pages to lay out the ELECTRIC COMET model, but you have declined to do so, or have quoted just about any paper about comet with the word "electric" in it as "confirming" the theory.

You been hide’n under a rock or something sport?

The model that says comets are just rocks (like asteroids) on eccentric orbits discharging in the solar wind plasma????

You not up to speed yet
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Old Yesterday, 02:30 PM   #4062
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
It's all standard Conspiracy/pseudoscience Playbook.

Keeping the thread going is a win, it makes you look like you have something worth discussing.
Misrepresenting mainstream research when it supports your case even though you reject the mainstream model.
Churn for a few weeks then reset back to points already discussed and debunked.
Mock and insult the mainstream contributors.
Hey swoopy tell me about the role of ELECTRIC FIELDS at a comet, along with field aligned currents, charge separation, the failure of MHD...etc etc

Shall we dig out the LATEST papers?

In case you’re a bit slow.

Would you CARE to discuss the “Kinetic model”?
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Old Yesterday, 02:34 PM   #4063
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Still good to see the mainstream slowly waking up...

The universe is electric, life is electric.

As above, so below.
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Old Yesterday, 03:25 PM   #4064
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Thumbs down An insane "the failure of MHD" lie

Usual electric comet insanity:
26 September 2016: An insane "the failure of MHD" lie.
He has given no failures of MHD. The insanity is that he wants us to deny the appropriate application of the limits of MHD

26 September 2016: An deluded “dirtysnowball” model has become the “fluid model” lie.
A quote with a model of cometary ions is not a model of a comet nucleus.

26 September 2016: An insane "Sol88’s beloved rock discharging in the solar wind" lie.
Solar wind dynamics around a comet (PDF) is about the solar wind interacting with the cometary coma.

26 September 2016: "Gigs up" insanity after the "Solar wind dynamics around a comet" paper.

26 September 2016: A "The Japanese asteroid mission will find there not much difference between asteroids and comets" delusion.
The mission is at the asteroid and has landed the first couple of probes. No cometary behavior at all observed !. No electrical discharges zapping the spacecraft or probes as expected in his electric comet insanity.

26 September 2016: A "The Parker solar probe will confirm the findings by SAFIRE project! " delusion.
There have been no findings from the SAFIRE project after several years.

26 September 2016: "Still good to see the mainstream slowly waking up..." insanity when the mainstream knows electromagnetism exists!
The mainstream is not insane enough to deny physics like the deluded and lying Thunderbolts cult and its followers. The mainstream knows physics and how to use it.

More than 1060 items of ignorance, idiocy (citing irrelevant mainstream papers), delusion, insults, and lies from 6 July 2009 to 27 July 2018

Another ~169 items of ignorance, idiocy (citing irrelevant mainstream papers), delusion, derails, insults, and lies from 27 July 2018 to 14 August 2018

Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory +material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.
Totally inane delusions about charge separation doing magic. Stupidly thinks that a ambipolar electric field is a double layer.

18 November 2010: The lies, failures and successes of Thunderbolts Deep Impact predictions by Wal Thornhill
10th April 2015: The ignorance, delusions and lies in the Thunderbolts web site, videos, etc.
13 April 2018: A couple of the delusions in Scott's Birkeland current paper.

The electric comet delusion has at least 45 years without a scientific electric comet model or observations to support it!

Over 3 years of the fear of doing basic physics: 25 June 2015 Sol88: Use a impact calculator to calculate the size of the crater on a comet made of rock by the Deep Impact impactor.

Last edited by Reality Check; Yesterday at 03:33 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 04:11 PM   #4065
jonesdave116
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
You been hide’n under a rock or something sport?

The model that says comets are just rocks (like asteroids) on eccentric orbits discharging in the solar wind plasma????

You not up to speed yet
In which case it has been a massive fail, hasn't it? So, why are you still here? David Talbott told us what we should see, and we didn't see it. No rock, no explanation for the huge list provided by Indagator for asteroids on eccentric orbits, and not a single discharge. Failure after failure. A bit pathetic, really.
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Old Yesterday, 04:14 PM   #4066
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Any charge separation jd116?
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Old Yesterday, 04:19 PM   #4067
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Two things required for the electric comet but not for the dirtysnowball

1. Charge separation
2. Electric fields

Both confirmed.
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Old Yesterday, 04:25 PM   #4068
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The real paradigm change here and for all of cosmology is charge separation DOES happen in astroplasmas.

There’s the first chinck in the armour of SR & GR
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Old Yesterday, 05:12 PM   #4069
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dup
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"No, never electric discharges" [Tusenfem]

Usual lies about ices and dust comet papers (bedrock is not actual rock). [Reality Check, 2 May 2018]

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Old Yesterday, 05:20 PM   #4070
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
In which case it has been a massive fail, hasn't it? So, why are you still here? David Talbott told us what we should see, and we didn't see it. No rock, no explanation for the huge list provided by Indagator for asteroids on eccentric orbits, and not a single discharge. Failure after failure. A bit pathetic, really.

Still, not as bad as the dirtysnowball models failures.

How’s the subsurface energy storage hypothesis coming along?

Jets?

Diamagnetic cavity?

The list goes on...and on...
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Usual lies about ices and dust comet papers (bedrock is not actual rock). [Reality Check, 2 May 2018]
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Old Yesterday, 05:28 PM   #4071
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
In which case it has been a massive fail, hasn't it? So, why are you still here? David Talbott told us what we should see, and we didn't see it. No rock, no explanation for the huge list provided by Indagator for asteroids on eccentric orbits, and not a single discharge. Failure after failure. A bit pathetic, really.
http://www.thunderbolts.info/thunder...s_elephant.htm

Quote:
Outbursts from comets at great distances from the Sun seem to be correlated with a sudden change in the solar 'wind' plasma environment due to a solar storm. The point about sudden comet outbursts is that we are dealing with a sudden, discontinuous process of plasma discharge - a switch from dark current mode to normal glow mode. It is a complex surface phenomenon that cannot be predicted. The best we can do is to say that the passage of a sudden change in the solar wind is the most likely time to see a flareup.

Hey jd116, ask tusenfem if Wal Thornhill was correct or not.

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Usual lies about ices and dust comet papers (bedrock is not actual rock). [Reality Check, 2 May 2018]

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Old Yesterday, 09:11 PM   #4072
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Thumbs down "Both confirmed " lies to support his electric comet insanity

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
...Both confirmed.
26 September 2018: "Both confirmed " lies and electric comet lies to support his electric comet insanity.
What has been confirmed is that plasma is ions and electrons () and the interaction of the solar wind with sublimated gases creates electric fields.
A lie that the electric comet insanity needs "charge separation". A lie that the electric comet insanity needs just an "electric field" (the imaginary field has to between the comet nucleus and the Sun).

The electric comet insanity is:
Sol88's comet delusions include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; Birkeland currents in comets and their tails with no appropriate magnetic field; papers using bedrock to describe layers of ices support his comet are rock delusion, imaginary double layers do magic; many years of lying that ices have not been detected on comets, a "hard shell of refractory +material on the outside" lie, insanity of consolidated ices and dust in papers being rock, an insane spate of lies about ices and dust papers.
Totally inane delusions about charge separation doing magic. Stupidly thinks that a ambipolar electric field is a double layer.

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Old Yesterday, 09:30 PM   #4073
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More from the deluded and lying Thunderbolts cult

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Hey jd116, ask tusenfem if Wal Thornhill was correct or not.
26 September 2018: More delusions and lies from the deluded and lying Thunderbolts cult.
This is a spate of delusions and lies from Michael Goodspeed in 2011. Lies bout NASA. Lies about failures of the mainstream model. Lies by quote mining. Lies and delusions about the Holmes 17P outburst. Electric comet insanity.

Delusions and lies from Wal Thornhill as expected. A really deluded fantasy from "Investigator Michael Mozina".

Thornhill's lies about the Deep Impact mission are regurgitated, e.g. there was no flash before impact.

Insanity of fused hematite in an arc furnace giving the shape of asteroids and comets.

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Old Today, 12:08 AM   #4074
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Remember a few post back when I asked tusenfem what the new model was...well here they are.



So the “dirtysnowball” model has become the “fluid model” - tusenfems beloved BUT wrong MHD classic Whipple model.

And

The ELECTRIC COMET MODEL HAD BECOME the “Kinetic model” - Sol88’s beloved rock discharging in the solar wind!



Solar wind dynamics around a comet

Gigs up jd116!

PS

The Japanese asteroid mission will find there not much difference between asteroids and comets

PSS

The Parker solar probe will confirm the findings by SAFIRE project!
Nope, you still don't understand what you are reading, and have no idea what this is all about, sad.
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Old Today, 12:09 AM   #4075
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
You been hide’n under a rock or something sport?

The model that says comets are just rocks (like asteroids) on eccentric orbits discharging in the solar wind plasma????

You not up to speed yet
show us the peer reviewed papers on this topic
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Old Today, 01:00 AM   #4076
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
Nope, you still don't understand what you are reading, and have no idea what this is all about, sad.
Ok ok ok

One more round then....

Does MHD apply at 67P?

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Old Today, 01:06 AM   #4077
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
show us the peer reviewed papers on this topic
Well the this one Electron and Ion Dynamics of the Solar Wind Interaction with a Weakly Outgassing Comet Jan Decca

Pretty much hits the nails on the head!

Would you like any more?
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Usual lies about ices and dust comet papers (bedrock is not actual rock). [Reality Check, 2 May 2018]
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Old Today, 01:11 AM   #4078
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
The model that says comets are just rocks (like asteroids) on eccentric orbits discharging in the solar wind plasma????
That is not a model, that is a claim.
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Old Today, 05:20 AM   #4079
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
That is not a model, that is a claim.
Oh, ok then if I make the claim and it turns out to be correct, is that just a best guess kinda thing or wot?

Or, like tusenfem are you under some sorta delusion that you are going to a quick search of Arvix for “electric comet” and come up with the model in question?

So your thoughts on Jan Deca’s paper Electron and Ion Dynamics of the Solar Wind Interaction with a Weakly Outgassing Comet

In particular the separation of electrons and ions.
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