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Old 11th October 2016, 07:18 AM   #1
Jodie
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Do you think the United States is headed for another Civil War?

There were several triggers that sowed the seeds for the Civil War in the United States that included the landslide election for Lincoln. With all of the current civil unrest in the United States as evidenced by rogue shooters taking out civilians, the FEMA camps that are being built around the U.S. , the increased incidence of Marshall Law being declared in cities like Memphis and Charlotte, and the two inappropriate candidates for our current presidential election, is history repeating itself, do you think the seeds for a second civil war are being sewn for the United States?
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Old 11th October 2016, 07:21 AM   #2
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Don't be ridiculous.
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Old 11th October 2016, 07:21 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
There were several triggers that sowed the seeds for the Civil War in the United States that included the landslide election for Lincoln. With all of the current civil unrest in the United States as evidenced by rogue shooters taking out civilians, the FEMA camps that are being built around the U.S. , the increased incidence of Marshall Law being declared in cities like Memphis and Charlotte, and the two inappropriate candidates for our current presidential election. Is history repeating itself, do you think the seeds for a second civil war being sewn for the United States?
The highlighted are total fabrications, so I think we're good.
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Old 11th October 2016, 07:26 AM   #4
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Don't think Lincoln was elected by a land or other kind of slide, but I have too little interest in this carp to look it up.
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Old 11th October 2016, 07:39 AM   #5
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180 to 123 electoral college votes, according to Wikipedia. Lincoln received 1,866,452 votes, Stephen Douglas of the Democrats 1,376,957 votes, John Breckinridge of the Southern Democrats 849,781 votes, and John Bell of the Constitutional Unity party 588,789 votes. Lincoln therefore received just under 40% of the votes cast.

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Old 11th October 2016, 07:51 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
The highlighted are total fabrications, so I think we're good.
Martial ( was thinking of U.S. Marshall's, pardon my mispelling) Law was recently declared in Charlotte as of two weeks ago after a police shooting, and I was in Tupelo when it was declared in Memphis as a result of increased gang activity. That is not a figment of my imagination.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/09/21...ring-protests/

http://www.infowars.com/three-states...al-law-sweeps/


As for FEMA, the National Emergencies Act allows the government to build camps for natural disasters but these camps can easily be used in times of war or for other types of containment needed. We have one right outside of Columbia, SC for homeless people called "The Farm".

https://thinkprogress.org/south-caro...06f#.i1tjvkri4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Emergencies_Act
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Old 11th October 2016, 07:53 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
180 to 123 electoral college votes, according to Wikipedia. Lincoln received 1,866,452 votes, Stephen Douglas of the Democrats 1,376,957 votes, John Breckinridge of the Southern Democrats 849,781 votes, and John Bell of the Constitutional Unity party 588,789 votes. Lincoln therefore received just under 40% of the votes cast.

Dave
I think a few of the southern states refused to add Lincoln to the ballot.
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Old 11th October 2016, 07:54 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Don't be ridiculous.

I live here, you don't.

No one ever sees a civil war coming, if they did, it wouldn't happen. However, in the last 10 years there seems to be an escalation of violence, civil unrest, and not surprisingly it doesn't always make the news.
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Old 11th October 2016, 08:01 AM   #9
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Oh, brother.
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Old 11th October 2016, 08:03 AM   #10
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No.
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Old 11th October 2016, 08:06 AM   #11
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Here is an ordinance that prohibits stockpiling food resources, why? It states it is a matter of emergency preparedness but that means that someone who has a backyard garden is subject to having their food confiscated if the federal government deems it necessary.

http://www.disastercenter.com/laworder/10998.htm
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Old 11th October 2016, 08:10 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
I live here......
So do a lot of other members of this forum. They aren't seeing it the same way as you, so this argument is spurious.
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Old 11th October 2016, 08:15 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
No one ever sees a civil war coming, if they did, it wouldn't happen.
Where did you pluck that one from?
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Old 11th October 2016, 08:15 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Martial ( was thinking of U.S. Marshall's, pardon my mispelling) Law was recently declared in Charlotte as of two weeks ago after a police shooting, and I was in Tupelo when it was declared in Memphis as a result of increased gang activity. That is not a figment of my imagination.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/09/21...ring-protests/

http://www.infowars.com/three-states...al-law-sweeps/
Yes it was. It was a state of Emergency. What I need from you is a link from the government declaring martial law. Not from Infowars. Martial Law is a thing. Like a car or a river. It's not an abstract idea.

Quote:
As for FEMA, the National Emergencies Act allows the government to build camps for natural disasters but these camps can easily be used in times of war or for other types of containment needed. We have one right outside of Columbia, SC for homeless people called "The Farm".

https://thinkprogress.org/south-caro...06f#.i1tjvkri4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Emergencies_Act
Yes, and we've been hearing from I'm sure many fine folks how these will be used for political prisoners for many, many years.
It's ********.
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Old 11th October 2016, 08:16 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Martial ( was thinking of U.S. Marshall's, pardon my mispelling) Law was recently declared in Charlotte as of two weeks ago after a police shooting, and I was in Tupelo when it was declared in Memphis as a result of increased gang activity. That is not a figment of my imagination.

http://www.denverpost.com/2016/09/21...ring-protests/

http://www.infowars.com/three-states...al-law-sweeps/
What has happened in these two cases is that the state governor has called in the state national guard to augment the police. This is not martial law, this is what we in Canada call "Aid to the Civil Power". Martial law is what happens when the military justice system completely replaces the civil justice system - that is not what happened here. Everyone can still exercise all their civil rights under the US Constitution, no one is being court martialled, etc.


Quote:
As for FEMA, the National Emergencies Act allows the government to build camps for natural disasters but these camps can easily be used in times of war or for other types of containment needed. We have one right outside of Columbia, SC for homeless people called "The Farm".

https://thinkprogress.org/south-caro...06f#.i1tjvkri4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Emergencies_Act
And? Do you also spend your nights worrying about whether the military will be used to round up US civilians? Is there that big a disconnect between the people of the US and their military that you think that order would be obeyed right now?
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Old 11th October 2016, 08:18 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
That's a state of emergency.
Martial law is something quite different.
If it were martial law then the governor would no longer be governor...it would be someone from the military instead.

Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
And that's info wars and consequently bollocks.
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Old 11th October 2016, 08:19 AM   #17
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Here is an interesting article on what lead up to the Civil War. State's rights was one of the big issues, an issue that we are dealing with today.

https://www.history.org/Foundation/j...nter11/war.cfm

One could view the widening socioeconomic gap developing between the wealthy and the dwindling middle class as another factor that could lead to a second civil war. Here is a list of states that have filed petitions for secession.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2120410.html
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Old 11th October 2016, 08:22 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Where did you pluck that one from?

What country would knowingly commit suicide?
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Old 11th October 2016, 08:30 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Yes it was. It was a state of Emergency. What I need from you is a link from the government declaring martial law. Not from Infowars. Martial Law is a thing. Like a car or a river. It's not an abstract idea.
What do you call closing the city? No one could get in, no one could get out. My brother was traveling that weekend and had to drive through the city to get to Pigeon Forge. He was not allowed to enter. They were diverting any traffic trying to enter the city or from leaving. The National Guard was there in the downtown area and they were allowed to do whatever was needed to contain the violence that might erupt from protesters. That is martial law. Here is the definition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law


Quote:
Yes, and we've been hearing from I'm sure many fine folks how these will be used for political prisoners for many, many years.
It's ********.
If you say so, but those that are in these containment areas, such as The Farm where I live, would disagree with you.
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Old 11th October 2016, 08:34 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
.......That is martial law.......
No, Jodie. Words have meanings, and what you are describing is not martial law. In martial law the civilian institutions of power are suspended or replaced by the military. Anyone arrested during the events you describe would still have had full rights under the civilian judicial system, and still had all their constitutional rights.
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Old 11th October 2016, 08:52 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
What country would knowingly commit suicide?
Well, since a civil war is not suicide, that's a bit irrelevant.

People made the decision to go to war in pretty much every civil war situation I can think of. Few were a case of stumbling into it blindly.
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Old 11th October 2016, 08:53 AM   #22
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Oh, and while I'm here, the first line of that wiki link on Martial Law is:
Quote:
Martial law is the imposition of the highest-ranking military officer as the military governor or as the head of the government, thus removing all power from the previous executive, legislative, and judicial branches of government.
which is not what happened in the example you gave.
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Old 11th October 2016, 08:58 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
No, Jodie. Words have meanings, and what you are describing is not martial law. In martial law the civilian institutions of power are suspended or replaced by the military. Anyone arrested during the events you describe would still have had full rights under the civilian judicial system, and still had all their constitutional rights.
Look at the definition again according to Wiki:

Martial law can be used by governments to enforce their rule over the public. Such incidents may occur after a coup d'état (such as Thailand in 2006 and 2014); when threatened by popular protest (China, Tiananmen Square protests of 1989); [i][/Ito suppress political opposition (Poland in 1981); or to stabilize insurrections or perceived insurrections ](Canada, The October Crisis of 1970). Martial law may be declared in cases of major natural disasters; however, most countries use a different legal construct, such as a state of emergency.

Any time you have to call in the National Guard, the local authorities are relinquishing jurisdiction over whatever incident is occurring. This has happened frequently, or more often than I think should happen, if the government is stable. Using double speak and calling it something else doesn't change the nature of the matter.
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Old 11th October 2016, 09:00 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
What do you call closing the city? No one could get in, no one could get out. My brother was traveling that weekend and had to drive through the city to get to Pigeon Forge. He was not allowed to enter. They were diverting any traffic trying to enter the city or from leaving. The National Guard was there in the downtown area and they were allowed to do whatever was needed to contain the violence that might erupt from protesters. That is martial law. Here is the definition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law




If you say so, but those that are in these containment areas, such as The Farm where I live, would disagree with you.
You need to produce a government document stating that Martial Law started at XXX time and XXX date and will end at XXX date.

Till then you're just in need of a dictionary.
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Old 11th October 2016, 09:03 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Here is an interesting article on what lead up to the Civil War. State's rights was one of the big issues, an issue that we are dealing with today.
That's because state rights are _always_ an issue in the US. Nothing to see here.
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Old 11th October 2016, 09:07 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Oh, and while I'm here, the first line of that wiki link on Martial Law is:

which is not what happened in the example you gave.
As I said, when a branch of the military is called to control a segment of the population that it governs, what is that exactly? It's not a natural disaster therefore calling it a state of emergency isn't making it less serious. Charlotte isn't the only place this has happened in the last ten years.
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Old 11th October 2016, 09:09 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
You need to produce a government document stating that Martial Law started at XXX time and XXX date and will end at XXX date.

Till then you're just in need of a dictionary.
You're not going to find it because the U.S. doesn't want to admit that they have a real problem here. Their answer was to give us two candidates, sock puppets, that no one wants to vote for in the next election.
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Old 11th October 2016, 09:11 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Well, since a civil war is not suicide, that's a bit irrelevant.

People made the decision to go to war in pretty much every civil war situation I can think of. Few were a case of stumbling into it blindly.
I would say that the majority of you guys here in this thread who are U.S. citizens seem to be stumbling blindly along oblivious to the potential for a second civil war.
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Old 11th October 2016, 09:13 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
That's a state of emergency.
Martial law is something quite different.
If it were martial law then the governor would no longer be governor...it would be someone from the military instead.



And that's info wars and consequently bollocks.
That's like saying, gee it's just a benign tumor, when in fact it's a cancer starting to grow.
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Old 11th October 2016, 09:14 AM   #30
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All I'm saying is start paying attention to the things that actually make it on the news. Then start paying attention to what happens locally that never makes it to the news and draw your own conclusions.
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Old 11th October 2016, 09:17 AM   #31
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A revolution in the US would last exactly as long as it takes the insurgents to realizes that they will no longer get social security checks, food stamps or medicaid prescriptions.
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Old 11th October 2016, 09:20 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
I live here, you don't.

No one ever sees a civil war coming, if they did, it wouldn't happen. However, in the last 10 years there seems to be an escalation of violence, civil unrest, and not surprisingly it doesn't always make the news.


Really? The American Civil War was 20 years in the works. Read up on the Missouri Compromise, the Kansas-Nebraska Act and Bleeding Kansas. It was clear that the North and the South had a fundamental difference over the issue of slavery, and in the end that proved irreconcilable.
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Old 11th October 2016, 09:22 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
All I'm saying is start paying attention to the things that actually make it on the news. Then start paying attention to what happens locally that never makes it to the news and draw your own conclusions.
Ok.

My own conclusion is that no martial law has taken place. Your reality may be different.
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Old 11th October 2016, 09:22 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Any time you have to call in the National Guard, the local authorities are relinquishing jurisdiction over whatever incident is occurring. This has happened frequently, or more often than I think should happen, if the government is stable. Using double speak and calling it something else doesn't change the nature of the matter.
No, they're not. They're just calling in the Guard because they think the police do not number enough to maintain order or to control the emergency.
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Old 11th October 2016, 09:24 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
You're not going to find it because the U.S. doesn't want to admit that they have a real problem here. Their answer was to give us two candidates, sock puppets, that no one wants to vote for in the next election.
What you don't get is that the government has to DECLARE martial law. They have to TELL THE CITIZENS they're under martial law - otherwise how would the citizens know?

Oh man.

This Trump **** has to stop. The mentality. Or lack thereof. This is historic, epic stupidity on a national scale. MAKE IT END.
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Old 11th October 2016, 09:31 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Look at the definition again according to Wiki:

Martial law can be used by governments to enforce their rule over the public. Such incidents may occur after a coup d'état (such as Thailand in 2006 and 2014); when threatened by popular protest (China, Tiananmen Square protests of 1989); [i][/Ito suppress political opposition (Poland in 1981); or to stabilize insurrections or perceived insurrections ](Canada, The October Crisis of 1970). Martial law may be declared in cases of major natural disasters; however, most countries use a different legal construct, such as a state of emergency.

Any time you have to call in the National Guard, the local authorities are relinquishing jurisdiction over whatever incident is occurring. This has happened frequently, or more often than I think should happen, if the government is stable. Using double speak and calling it something else doesn't change the nature of the matter.
Local authorities aren't relinquishing jurisdiction. You will find that they are still in charge.
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Old 11th October 2016, 09:33 AM   #37
Mark6
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
No one ever sees a civil war coming, if they did, it wouldn't happen.
This is absolutely false.
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
What country would knowingly commit suicide?
And this is downright meaningless.

Civil wars happen because some faction decides that a violent insurrection is in their interests. Which is very opposite of committing suicide. And violent insurrections do not come out of nowhere -- invariably there is a long history of grievances and/or irreconcilable differences, much like ddt pointed out with American Civil War. So not only every civil war was in fact seen long coming, but specific sides could be identified easily.

So the answer to your original question: If you cannot at the very least specify who would be fighting whom, then the answer is no.
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Old 11th October 2016, 09:36 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
No, they're not. They're just calling in the Guard because they think the police do not number enough to maintain order or to control the emergency.
And the civil police aren't relinquishing their authority, either. The guard is there to assist them, and is being directed by the civil authorities, not military ones.
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Old 11th October 2016, 09:37 AM   #39
Dave Rogers
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
As I said, when a branch of the military is called to control a segment of the population that it governs, what is that exactly? It's not a natural disaster therefore calling it a state of emergency isn't making it less serious. Charlotte isn't the only place this has happened in the last ten years.
From the reference you quoted:

Quote:
There have been many instances of the use of the military within the borders of the United States, such as during the Whiskey Rebellion and in the South during the civil rights crises, but these acts are not tantamount to a declaration of martial law. The distinction must be made as clear as that between martial law and military justice: deployment of troops does not necessarily mean that the civil courts cannot function, and that is one of the keys, as the Supreme Court noted, to martial law.
By definition, what you are describing is not martial law.

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Old 11th October 2016, 09:39 AM   #40
Tolls
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Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Look at the definition again according to Wiki:
Yes, let's.

Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
Martial law can be used by governments to enforce their rule over the public. Such incidents may occur after a coup d'état (such as Thailand in 2006 and 2014); when threatened by popular protest (China, Tiananmen Square protests of 1989); [i][/Ito suppress political opposition (Poland in 1981); or to stabilize insurrections or perceived insurrections ](Canada, The October Crisis of 1970). Martial law may be declared in cases of major natural disasters; however, most countries use a different legal construct, such as a state of emergency.
OK, so that says that a state of emergency is a different legal construct to martial law. Right there. In the sentence you highlighted.

So now, will you please just admit that martial law has not been declared in the US anytime in the past few decades and you were mistaken. Please. It's quite easy to do.
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