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Old 18th July 2018, 06:07 AM   #601
Darat
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
I was given a suppository once, by consent, and never realised that I was engaged in an unequivocally and inarguably sexual act.
I'm now thinking about my colonoscopies in a very different way!
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:04 AM   #602
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
It is my first thought, and everyone who responds. It is unequivocal and inarguable, it is an anal suggestion.
And never, not ever, designed to continue a happy dialogue.
I am astonished at the obfuscation on the thread.
Get over your anal obsession already!

Edited by kmortis:  Removed to comply with Rule 11
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Last edited by kmortis; 19th July 2018 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 18th July 2018, 07:52 AM   #603
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
It's a clever idea, but ill-judged and unwanted.
Was it unwanted?

https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/...84366083190785

From Dict Stanton to Elon Musk:

Quote:
It is absolutely worth continuing with the development of this system in as timely a manner as feasible. If the rain holds out it may well be used.
None of that excused Musk's behavior regarding Unsworth, but I don't think it is correct to say that they didn't want it. They were following a number or parallel options for getting the kids out. This one might not have been practical and was not used, but it does seem like they asked Musk to keep working on it.

Last edited by crescent; 18th July 2018 at 08:58 AM.
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Old 18th July 2018, 09:55 AM   #604
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Timimg. Maybe I have it wrong, but I thought the diver cast the first stone.
I also thought that Musk asked if he should continue to build his machine, and was told to carry on. It all looked like good faith.
Originally Posted by Samson View Post
My homework is incomplete, so I provisionally withdraw my conclusions, but there is a thread bias to minimise the insult by the British diver and maximise that of the South African/American trailblazer.
It wasn't a submarine - it was either a rigid enclosed stretcher, or a coffin for living people.

It was obvious that if one has to travel through a passage that requires divers to remove their oxygen tanks, then such a coffin would be very hard to manouver. It is even more obvious that such a contraption would slow the rescue down even if it could work.

Musk was distracting from the rescue attempt, he was critical of the plan that worked and came up with something impractical.

When asked about the "submarine", Unsworth pointed out some salient and obvious facts and used some strong language as one would when someone had been distracting from the rescue and had recently been under a lot of stress.

There is no blame attached to Unsworth - the best that can be said of Musk is that adulation might have gone to his head.
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Old 18th July 2018, 11:16 AM   #605
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The boys finally speak for themselves. They had only intended to be in the cave for an hour.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.40896a4c5aae
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Old 18th July 2018, 11:19 AM   #606
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Was it unwanted?

https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/...84366083190785

From Dict Stanton to Elon Musk:

None of that excused Musk's behavior regarding Unsworth, but I don't think it is correct to say that they didn't want it. They were following a number or parallel options for getting the kids out. This one might not have been practical and was not used, but it does seem like they asked Musk to keep working on it.
Fair enough, but I wonder if Musk's team ran the final design past Stanton or anyone else in the rescue team? Given that the design wasn't going to work it's hard to see any justification for actually delivering it to the cave. It still looks like glory-seeking.
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Old 18th July 2018, 11:38 AM   #607
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
And you were doing so well up to that point. SMH.
Sorry, but from a British perspective even saying literally, "you can stick that up your arse," would not be taken in the way Musk did.
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Old 18th July 2018, 11:41 AM   #608
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
And that's why, in English, "anal' and "sexual" are not synonyms (though he did "shove it up your ass").
What the hell dude?
No, he didn't say that.
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Old 18th July 2018, 11:44 AM   #609
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Fair enough, but I wonder if Musk's team ran the final design past Stanton or anyone else in the rescue team? Given that the design wasn't going to work it's hard to see any justification for actually delivering it to the cave. It still looks like glory-seeking.
I can believe it wasn't intended to be - saying "please work on this" sounds as though that could be a polite way of saying no without actually saying no and Musk might have not noticed.

https://www.justlanded.com/english/T...ness-etiquette

Quote:
Courtesy is very important to Thai people. Being polite and respectful to others is considered essential to maintaining good relationships. Speaking softly and smiling warmly will always help to create positive feelings.

As in many other Asian countries, you should avoid angering or insulting someone (causing someone to “lose face”). Open criticisms and negative responses are seen as an insult to other people and can cause them to think disrespectfully of you. If you need to give a negative response, do so indirectly.
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 18th July 2018, 11:46 AM   #610
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Meanwhile - this made me laugh and has an aspect of truth about it too:

https://i.redd.it/8ngklhftvl911.jpg
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 18th July 2018, 01:19 PM   #611
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
No, he didn't say that.
Quite right, well spotted.

(Out of my personal experience... didn't think it through. )
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Old 18th July 2018, 01:45 PM   #612
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I can believe it wasn't intended to be - saying "please work on this" sounds as though that could be a polite way of saying no without actually saying no and Musk might have not noticed.
Exactly.
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Old 18th July 2018, 03:28 PM   #613
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
It wasn't a submarine - it was either a rigid enclosed stretcher, or a coffin for living people.

It was obvious that if one has to travel through a passage that requires divers to remove their oxygen tanks, then such a coffin would be very hard to manouver. It is even more obvious that such a contraption would slow the rescue down even if it could work.

Musk was distracting from the rescue attempt, he was critical of the plan that worked and came up with something impractical.

When asked about the "submarine", Unsworth pointed out some salient and obvious facts and used some strong language as one would when someone had been distracting from the rescue and had recently been under a lot of stress.

There is no blame attached to Unsworth - the best that can be said of Musk is that adulation might have gone to his head.
Thanks for that summary Jimbob, it is a fair view of what might have happened. I feel there will emerge a plausible narrative where everyone can shake hands.

Just what is a pedo boy in SA??

Last edited by Samson; 18th July 2018 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 18th July 2018, 03:32 PM   #614
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Thanks for a balanced summary Jimbob.
It is balanced perfectly in favour if he truth of the matter. Therefore I second your thanks to Jimbob for the honest summary.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 18th July 2018, 10:48 PM   #615
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The boys finally speak for themselves. They had only intended to be in the cave for an hour.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.40896a4c5aae
I missed the brief item on the Radio 4 news, so googled for a report and watched that video right through. I thought it was very interesting and well presented.
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Old 19th July 2018, 10:08 AM   #616
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
It wasn't a submarine - it was either a rigid enclosed stretcher, or a coffin for living people.

It was obvious that if one has to travel through a passage that requires divers to remove their oxygen tanks, then such a coffin would be very hard to manouver. It is even more obvious that such a contraption would slow the rescue down even if it could work.

Musk was distracting from the rescue attempt, he was critical of the plan that worked and came up with something impractical.

When asked about the "submarine", Unsworth pointed out some salient and obvious facts and used some strong language as one would when someone had been distracting from the rescue and had recently been under a lot of stress.

There is no blame attached to Unsworth - the best that can be said of Musk is that adulation might have gone to his head.
Meanwhile on Badscience, EACLUcifer has added a bit more on why it was a really bad idea - beyond the obvious problems with fitting in the passages.

Originally Posted by EACLucifer
To sum up that contraption, the hatch was closed by about 8 thumbwheel bolts. Because thumbwheel bolts. Thumbwheel bolts can be a bit tricky at times. How much torque would one need to create a good seal? What happens if you drop one while working in a cave in complete darkness and soaking wet? What happens if you crossthread it - surprisingly easy to do - and **** up the entire hatch seal?

It was never designed to work in any environment more challenging than a swimming pool with lots of good cameras filming it.

Not only did that cave have narrow, twisty sections - the sort of thing that had divers having to take their tanks off and carry them - but it also had the sort of currents that could rip off a divers mask if they faced the wrong way.
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 19th July 2018, 01:46 PM   #617
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Was it unwanted?

https://mobile.twitter.com/elonmusk/...84366083190785

From Dict Stanton to Elon Musk:

None of that excused Musk's behavior regarding Unsworth, but I don't think it is correct to say that they didn't want it.
The email exchange suggests they liked the idea; but importantly it's the idea they're interested in. It was after he arrived with the capsule and they actually saw it in physical reality that they declared it impractical.
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Old 19th July 2018, 01:50 PM   #618
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The email exchange suggests they liked the idea; but importantly it's the idea they're interested in. It was after he arrived with the capsule and they actually saw it in physical reality that they declared it impractical.
Alternatively, it could have been a polite way of giving a holding answer and allowing face to be saved without sounding negative.
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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