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Tags conservatism , conservatives , donald trump , george will , Max Boot , republican party

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Old 13th July 2018, 01:38 PM   #81
dudalb
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
His flirting with racists was why I already did not like candidate Trump, among other things. When the party betrayed any principles it had with regards to economics, by throwing its weight behind Trump, I left the party - it had totally deserted anything attracting me to it at that point.

If you are implying I am racist, you are wrong

If you are saying I associate at times with racists, well I have racist relatives, have had racist coworkers, and have very probably bought and sold things from and to racists. If the opportunity permits, I make my views known with such folks. If I believe I can influence them to be more non-racist, I will make an effort to do so.
As his remarks in the UK on European immigratation show,Trump is not flirting with racists, he is having full intercourse with them.
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Old 13th July 2018, 01:39 PM   #82
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Max Boot is not asking people to join the Democratic Party;he makes clear he had considerable distate for a lot of Democrats and their policies;but he thinks putting at least one part of government in a position to block Trump has become critical to saving Democracy in the US.
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Old 13th July 2018, 01:49 PM   #83
ahhell
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
His flirting with racists was why I already did not like candidate Trump, among other things. When the party betrayed any principles it had with regards to economics, by throwing its weight behind Trump, I left the party - it had totally deserted anything attracting me to it at that point.

If you are implying I am racist, you are wrong

If you are saying I associate at times with racists, well I have racist relatives, have had racist coworkers, and have very probably bought and sold things from and to racists. If the opportunity permits, I make my views known with such folks. If I believe I can influence them to be more non-racist, I will make an effort to do so.
Perhaps I was a bit harsh. It just struck me as an odd place to draw the line. Now if you had left once it was clear that the majority of the party was lining up behind trump in a fit tribalism, which has happened after his flirting with racists, I would have understood. That's basically where I've stopped trying to defend them. 80-90% have a favorable attitude to a guy that flirts with racists, regularly says clearly offensive things to allies while complimenting hostile dictators, and pursues policies that are quite contradictory to previous conservative positions.
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Old 13th July 2018, 02:13 PM   #84
NoahFence
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Okay, I will. I figure both ends of the political spectrum have their loony fringe elements. I also figure that only the Right have made their loony fringe mainstream.



Denies children are being held in cages…



… goes on to literally describe a cage.



Nicely put. I’m sure the other forum conservatives are glad to have you aboard and look forward to more statements like this in support of your shared ideology.



Your criticisms of the Left, however, are a breath of fresh air.



Please describe in detail how exactly Trump has “accomplished” those things, and please identify the metrics being used to quantify these “accomplishments” that differ from the ones we were told were inaccurate when we had job growth and low unemployment under Obama.

Well this ought to go well.
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Old 13th July 2018, 02:30 PM   #85
LSSBB
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Max Boot is not asking people to join the Democratic Party;he makes clear he had considerable distate for a lot of Democrats and their policies;but he thinks putting at least one part of government in a position to block Trump has become critical to saving Democracy in the US.
I still will vote for who I think is the best candidate. As I always have. If the Democrats put up a candidate next time around who is, unthinkable as that may be, worse than Trump, I will not vote for them - and if a third party candidate is better than either major party, I will vote for them. Candidates for any office who support Trump will also very probably not get my support, as that shows a severe lack of principle.
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Last edited by LSSBB; 13th July 2018 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 17th July 2018, 01:02 PM   #86
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More from Boot:

U.S. Constitution, Article III, Section 3: “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.” Trump’s own national security adviser said the Russian election attack constituted an “act of war.” So what does that make his boss? Some — including former CIA director John Brennan — now dare call it treason. That conclusion was once unthinkable. No longer.
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Old 18th July 2018, 11:47 AM   #87
dudalb
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If Democracy in the US is to survive, the GOP as it currently is...a personality cult of Donald Trump rapidly becoming openly authoritarian and fascist...must die.It;s that simple.
I would love for some of the die hard GOPers here to disprove my description of the current GOP.
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Old 18th July 2018, 02:07 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I agree that the U.S. needs a strong 2-party system.

The one main disagreement I had with your post is the suggestion that it is the "Trump storm" that the republican party has to weather. The fact is, the GOP has had significant issues for years, long before Trump joined the republican primaries:

- Close association with the Christian evangelicals

- Close association with the NRA

- A rather large segment of 'tea partiers' in Congress

- Congress in the hands of people like Mitch "Oppose Obama regardless of whether his ideas make sense" McConnell, or the people who decide that voter suppression of minorities is preferable to actually offering policies that minorities might like, destroying any sense of bipartisanship, compromise or inclusiveness

In some ways, Trump is almost a symptom of the disease rather than the disease itself. The rot has gone on for such a long period of time that I personally have doubts whether the Republican party CAN be saved.
I thought the Republican Party was dying before Trump. I think you are right that Trump is a symptom of the underlying disease. If the Republican Party dies (more likely it won't disappear completely, but will become a mostly irrelevant fringe party), the Democrats will split. You can already see the split developing, between the center (Obama, Hillary, etc.) and the more leftist (Bernie Sanders) factions.
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Old Yesterday, 04:14 PM   #89
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Rather than start a new thread:

Christine Todd Whitman: Calling my fellow Republicans: Trump is clearly unfit to remain in office

Originally Posted by Christine Todd Whitman
President Trump’s disgraceful performance in Helsinki, Finland, and in the days since is an indication that he is not fit to remain in office. Trump’s 2016 “America First” platform might be more aptly named “Russia First” after the disaster that occurred last week.

Trump’s turn toward Russia is indefensible. I am a lifelong Republican. I have campaigned and won as a member of the party, and I have served more than one Republican president. My Republican colleagues — once rightfully critical of President Obama’s engagement strategy with Russian leader Vladimir Putin — have to end their willful ignorance of the damage Trump is doing both domestically and internationally. We must put aside the GOP label, as hard as that may be, and demonstrate the leadership our country needs by calling on the president to step down.

Trump’s sycophantic relationship with Putin is unsurprising given his previous comments about Russia and its dictator. What is shocking is how long he has possessed — and disregarded — hard evidence of Putin’s direct role in undermining our elections. According to New York Times reporting, he saw dispositive emails and texts early in January 2017.

<snip>
Republican voters, including those who supported Donald Trump, have the obligation to demand action from their elected officials. Vocal opposition is expected from Democrats, but it is Republicans’ disapproval that will have the most sway on Capitol Hill and at the White House.

Those members of the party in Congress who have stood up to the president should be commended. More must follow, with more than private talk and tepid tweets. Only bold leadership can put the United States back on a path that values freedom and democracy, and truly puts America first.
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Old Yesterday, 04:35 PM   #90
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Brava to Whitman! More Republicans need to find a spine and speak up against the infection that is Trump.

In the meantime, I saw a Republican in a golf retirement village in Florida say he loves Trump because he (and I'm paraphrasing) plays the media like a violin. This man has fallen for the "the media is the enemy" and the "fake news" Trump propaganda. What a reason to support a lying, malignant narcissist.
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Old Yesterday, 04:54 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Brava to Whitman! More Republicans need to find a spine and speak up against the infection that is Trump.

In the meantime, I saw a Republican in a golf retirement village in Florida say he loves Trump because he (and I'm paraphrasing) plays the media like a violin. This man has fallen for the "the media is the enemy" and the "fake news" Trump propaganda. What a reason to support a lying, malignant narcissist.
Did he support Slick Willie for having the same ability?
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Old Yesterday, 05:19 PM   #92
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Did he support Slick Willie for having the same ability?
He'd probably support anyone who gave him those sweet tax breaks. Screw everyone else.
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Old Yesterday, 05:25 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Rather than start a new thread:

Christine Todd Whitman: Calling my fellow Republicans: Trump is clearly unfit to remain in office
Sadly, I’m pretty sure most of the GOP considers East Coast Republicans to be RINOs.
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Old Yesterday, 05:33 PM   #94
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Sadly, I’m pretty sure most of the GOP considers East Coast Republicans to be RINOs.
Trump's not even a Republican. He's a Trumpican. It's all about him.
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Old Yesterday, 05:44 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Rather than start a new thread:

Christine Todd Whitman: Calling my fellow Republicans: Trump is clearly unfit to remain in office
Easy for her to say. She's not trying to get re-elected.
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Old Yesterday, 06:58 PM   #96
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Only a little more than a quarter of young voters 18-29 are "absolutely certain" to come out and vote in November.

Disappointing and embarrassing to be a part of this demographic, after all that has happened.
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Old Yesterday, 11:41 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Only a little more than a quarter of young voters 18-29 are "absolutely certain" to come out and vote in November.

Disappointing and embarrassing to be a part of this demographic, after all that has happened.
In order to have a "blue wave" later this year, IMO the Democratic Party need to give people a positive reason to go out and vote for them - dislike of the current President is not good enough. The Democrats need "attractive" candidates (not just the same-old, same-old) and policies the electorate can really get on board with.

I don't get to see very much from this side of the Atlantic. I've seen some evidence for the first (but IMO not enough), but none for the latter. The Democratic Party risks a low turnout where fanatical Trumpists turn out and, combined with GOP gerrymandering and voter suppression, hold the house and actually increase their majority in the Senate.
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