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Tags abortion issues , abortion laws

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Old 11th May 2019, 07:27 PM   #41
Norman Alexander
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My grandmother, who bore and raised her children in the 1920's and 1930's when abortion was definitely illegal, told me personally that it is not an "abortion/no abortion" question. It has always been "legal abortion/illegal abortion" question. Abortion has always existed, and has been practiced, legal or not. Make it illegal again and it will simply go underground again, making it dangerous and exploitative. That point seems entirely lost on these legislators.
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Old 11th May 2019, 07:34 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Seriously. We already had Hitler and Double Hitler. What's next? Hitler 3000? Super Custom Turbo Hitler? Hitler's head in a jar?
Gruntmaster Hitler?
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Old 11th May 2019, 07:35 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
My grandmother, who bore and raised her children in the 1920's and 1930's when abortion was definitely illegal, told me personally that it is not an "abortion/no abortion" question. It has always been "legal abortion/illegal abortion" question. Abortion has always existed, and has been practiced, legal or not. Make it illegal again and it will simply go underground again, making it dangerous and exploitative. That point seems entirely lost on these legislators.
Not to mention how effective birth control and family planning are in preventing abortions.
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Old 11th May 2019, 07:38 PM   #44
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Not to mention how effective birth control and family planning are in preventing abortions.
HERESY!
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Old 11th May 2019, 07:41 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Not to mention how effective birth control and family planning are in preventing abortions.
And comprehensive Sex education!
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Old 11th May 2019, 08:27 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Seriously. We already had Hitler and Double Hitler. What's next? Hitler 3000? Super Custom Turbo Hitler? Hitler's head in a jar?
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 11th May 2019, 10:50 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Travis how many times is it now the government has turned into an Neo-con nightmare in your head? 10? 20? At this point I'm wondering how far you think it has to go.

Go outside.

The government is mandating that women try and save ectopic pregnancies and I'm the one that is out of line?
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Old 12th May 2019, 12:26 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
The government is mandating that women try and save ectopic pregnancies and I'm the one that is out of line?
Your statement above is simply false.

Neither the government of Ohio nor any government is mandating that, nor has anyone introduced any legislation that would, if passed, mandate any such thing.

The statement is false, as are the other statements from the OP.


The proposed legislation that seems to be the basis for your statements about ectopic pregnancy is indeed a pretty darned stupid bill, but it deals with insurance coverage for public employees in the state of Ohio, and nothing else. In fact, it even allows for insurance coverage of abortions in the case of ectopic pregnancy. In the course of discussing which abortion procedures could be covered, it makes a very stupid statement about ectopic pregnancy.


There are plenty of bad things that could be said about Republicans and/or legislation proposed by Republicans. There's no need to make stuff up.
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Old 12th May 2019, 03:08 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Your statement above is simply false.

Neither the government of Ohio nor any government is mandating that, nor has anyone introduced any legislation that would, if passed, mandate any such thing.

The statement is false, as are the other statements from the OP.


The proposed legislation that seems to be the basis for your statements about ectopic pregnancy is indeed a pretty darned stupid bill, but it deals with insurance coverage for public employees in the state of Ohio, and nothing else. In fact, it even allows for insurance coverage of abortions in the case of ectopic pregnancy. In the course of discussing which abortion procedures could be covered, it makes a very stupid statement about ectopic pregnancy.


There are plenty of bad things that could be said about Republicans and/or legislation proposed by Republicans. There's no need to make stuff up.

Please explain how government employees being told their medical bills won't be paid if they get an ectopic pregnancy (remember this likely means an ambulance trip, an ER visit, and a surgery so very pricey) unless a non-existent procedure is done isn't the government mandating that a non-existent procedure be performed? You think pregnant women just keep several hundred thousand laying around to cover this?
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Old 12th May 2019, 07:12 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
My grandmother, who bore and raised her children in the 1920's and 1930's when abortion was definitely illegal, told me personally that it is not an "abortion/no abortion" question. It has always been "legal abortion/illegal abortion" question. Abortion has always existed, and has been practiced, legal or not. Make it illegal again and it will simply go underground again, making it dangerous and exploitative. That point seems entirely lost on these legislators.
I don't think that point matters.

Suppose you genuinely believe that abortion is murder. You could save some lives of those who choose abortion by making it legal and hence safer. But in doing so, you are essentially making this form of murder legal. If we only care about cost to society, that would be the right thing to do, but if you regard the moral status of abortion as important (and also regard abortion the moral equivalent of murder), it would almost certainly be the wrong thing to do. Even if it comes with lower social cost, it would be wrong to say that murder is acceptable.

Mind, I'm not arguing that abortion ought to be illegal. I'm just pointing out that one who genuinely believes abortion is murder (and this is not a stupid opinion from my point of view) could acknowledge that outlawing abortion comes with higher social costs, deaths from botched backalley abortions even, and still consistently say this is what we ought to do.
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Old 12th May 2019, 07:14 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
The government is mandating that women try and save ectopic pregnancies and I'm the one that is out of line?
It's totally possible that both you and proponents of this bill are out of line. Your tedious hyperbole is not nearly as bad as the effects of this bill, but the fact that the bill is bad doesn't mean your hyperbole should be dismissed.

For goodness sake, criticize the bad actions of politicians, but don't misrepresent their positions. It is dishonest and ineffective.
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Old 12th May 2019, 07:20 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Please explain how government employees being told their medical bills won't be paid if they get an ectopic pregnancy (remember this likely means an ambulance trip, an ER visit, and a surgery so very pricey) unless a non-existent procedure is done isn't the government mandating that a non-existent procedure be performed? You think pregnant women just keep several hundred thousand laying around to cover this?
I can't understand your point here.

According to Meadmaker, the bill pays for abortion in the case of ectopic pregnancies. I'll take his word on this. Hence, no one is forced to get a non-existent procedure done.

Let's suppose that's not the case, however, and the bill would forbid the insurance paying for abortion in that case. Well, then the woman would have to pay for an abortion. That would be a large burden, regrettable no doubt. But where do you get the several hundred thousand notion? If that's the cost of the non-existent procedure, then it's irrelevant since (1) presumably the bill would mandate payment for that and (2) the woman would still have the option of abortion, which costs rather less than several hundred thousand.

So what did you mean above?
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Old 12th May 2019, 07:38 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Travis how many times is it now the government has turned into an Neo-con nightmare in your head? 10? 20? At this point I'm wondering how far you think it has to go.

Go outside.
Having seen a few of Travis's OP's, surely one has to defer to Poe's law?
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Old 12th May 2019, 07:38 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Please explain how government employees being told their medical bills won't be paid if they get an ectopic pregnancy (remember this likely means an ambulance trip, an ER visit, and a surgery so very pricey) unless a non-existent procedure is done isn't the government mandating that a non-existent procedure be performed? You think pregnant women just keep several hundred thousand laying around to cover this?
The bill doesn't say that. This is a fiction.

The bill is stupid, and it does reference the non-existent procedure to which you are referring, but it does not say that this non-existent procedure must be performed or attempted in order to secure funding for some other, real, procedure. The bill says insurance companies may fund abortion if the abortion is necessary to save the life of the mother. There are no restrictions, requirements, or prohibitions on that clause of the legislation.

The bill also has not been voted on, and I am extremely confident that if it ever gets to a vote, this one specific bit of idiocy will be edited out before even the vote takes place.

My goal here is not to defend the legislation or the idiot legislator who introduced it. In the press, it has been derided, correctly in my opinion, as an example of legislation being introduced by abortion opponents that demonstrates their ignorance of medicine, among other things. The guy is an idiot, as are a lot of people who oppose abortion, and his bill is proof of his idiocy. However, it does not do what you say it does, either in the OP, or in your more recent post. There's plenty of stupid to criticize if you stick to what the bill actually does. There's no need to invent additional stupid.
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Old 12th May 2019, 08:29 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Please explain how government employees being told their medical bills won't be paid if they get an ectopic pregnancy (remember this likely means an ambulance trip, an ER visit, and a surgery so very pricey) unless a non-existent procedure is done isn't the government mandating that a non-existent procedure be performed? You think pregnant women just keep several hundred thousand laying around to cover this?
If I offer to buy you a cake if it is chocolate, I'm not mandating you buy chocolate cake.
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Old 12th May 2019, 09:45 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
I just want to say that I agree with Travis on this, but instead of a quick death jumping off a cliff, they should die in a dumpster fire.
Fine with me!!! Or in a hell of their own making and deservement!!
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Old 12th May 2019, 10:59 AM   #57
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Gilead is a mountain east of the Jordan River. It was referred to in Genesis. Is that the mountain that the people who didn't freak out about others who voted for Jill Stein supposed to jump off? Does it have cliffs?
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Old 12th May 2019, 11:06 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Gilead is a mountain east of the Jordan River. It was referred to in Genesis. Is that the mountain that the people who didn't freak out about others who voted for Jill Stein supposed to jump off? Does it have cliffs?
I think you get there by high speed rail.
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Old 12th May 2019, 11:08 AM   #59
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After we transition into Gilead, will we be allowed to use Gilead rest rooms?
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Old 12th May 2019, 11:09 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Not to mention how effective birth control and family planning are in preventing abortions.
Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
And comprehensive Sex education!
Quoted because it bears repeating. Birth control and sex education are the very best ways of preventing abortion, but somehow the (usually Republican) idiots who oppose abortion also oppose those. "Abstinence Only" has, IIRC, been shown to actually increase rates of teen pregnancy.
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Old 12th May 2019, 12:50 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
After we transition into Gilead, will we be allowed to use Gilead rest rooms?
In Gilead, do all our razors get more and more blades?
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Old 12th May 2019, 01:07 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
In Gilead, do all our razors get more and more blades?
Yes.

Bit of trivia: the original url doesn't have asterisks. The forum software substitutes those, but fortunately the number at the end allows the server software at the linked site to recover the correct link. But let this stand as a language warning, there's some swearing involved.
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Old 12th May 2019, 01:10 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
I'd like to say that all the Bernie Bros who said back in 2016 that it was okay, nay a requirement, to vote Stein because women were safe can collectively all just go jump off a cliff.
The left always eats its own.

Quote:
I said then that conservatives would never be satisfied until women were reduced to slaves for men's whims but I was just talking "nonsense" and yet here we now are.
Where exactly do you think "here" is?
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Old 12th May 2019, 01:16 PM   #64
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isissxn enters thread with mild interest

half a page later...

isissxn shudders and runs away from thread forever
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Old 12th May 2019, 01:44 PM   #65
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Do any of these states who do not allow abortions if rape is involved also have the possibility that the father can claim custody of the child? Rapists would then be able to use women as incubators for their children and discard the mothers at brith.
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Old 12th May 2019, 06:59 PM   #66
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Is it coincidence?

"Gilead Sciences, the maker of HIV prevention drug Truvada, is sending the United States a very big gift. It will be donating enough supply to support Trump’s initiative that seeks to eliminate transmission of the virus within the next decade."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-str...PL14662qTSkhZ0


I know.. it has nothing to do with the topic, other than a coincidental name.
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Old 12th May 2019, 07:02 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Is it coincidence?

"Gilead Sciences, the maker of HIV prevention drug Truvada, is sending the United States a very big gift. It will be donating enough supply to support Trumpís initiative that seeks to eliminate transmission of the virus within the next decade."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-str...PL14662qTSkhZ0


I know.. it has nothing to do with the topic, other than a coincidental name.
Tell me more about why you believe in Yahoo! News.
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Old 12th May 2019, 07:14 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Tell me more about why you believe in Yahoo! News.
Oh.. you're one of those people.
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Old 12th May 2019, 07:37 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
With Georgia about set to give women who get abortions the death penalty
It's transphobic of you to exclude pregnant men.

God damn, I love rule #4.
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Old 12th May 2019, 11:13 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Quoted because it bears repeating. Birth control and sex education are the very best ways of preventing abortion, but somehow the (usually Republican) idiots who oppose abortion also oppose those. "Abstinence Only" has, IIRC, been shown to actually increase rates of teen pregnancy.
It's not hard to understand why. It's all about the numbers. They want more teen pregnancies because it gives them more children to indoctrinate with their hateful cult fantasies. The more people they have under their thumb the more powerful the cult becomes, so of course they appose anything that reduces the birth rate (sex education, birth control, abortion, homosexuality etc.).

Genesis 38:8-10
Quote:
Then Judah said to Onan, ďSleep with your brotherís wife. Perform your duty as her brother-in-law and raise up offspring for your brother.Ē But Onan knew that the offspring would not belong to him; so whenever he would sleep with his brotherís wife, he would spill his seed on the ground so that he would not produce offspring for his brother. What he did was evil in the LORDís sight, so He put Onan to death
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Old 12th May 2019, 11:16 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It's transphobic of you to exclude pregnant men.
If men could get pregnant this bill would not exist.
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Old 12th May 2019, 11:28 PM   #72
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I'm probably the only person reading this from Goliad county, so I'm confused on when you will all be arriving. I probably have enough beer, but whisky is running a bit low.
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Old 13th May 2019, 01:15 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
The bill doesn't say that. This is a fiction.

The bill is stupid, and it does reference the non-existent procedure to which you are referring, but it does not say that this non-existent procedure must be performed or attempted in order to secure funding for some other, real, procedure. The bill says insurance companies may fund abortion if the abortion is necessary to save the life of the mother. There are no restrictions, requirements, or prohibitions on that clause of the legislation.

The bill also has not been voted on, and I am extremely confident that if it ever gets to a vote, this one specific bit of idiocy will be edited out before even the vote takes place.

My goal here is not to defend the legislation or the idiot legislator who introduced it. In the press, it has been derided, correctly in my opinion, as an example of legislation being introduced by abortion opponents that demonstrates their ignorance of medicine, among other things. The guy is an idiot, as are a lot of people who oppose abortion, and his bill is proof of his idiocy. However, it does not do what you say it does, either in the OP, or in your more recent post. There's plenty of stupid to criticize if you stick to what the bill actually does. There's no need to invent additional stupid.

If what you are saying is correct then I jumped to a conclusion or misinterpreted something. Doesn't change that these states are very much trying to eliminate huge swathes of women's healthcare.


If Georgia gets its way when do women get so scared of being reported as pregnant that they just stop seeing doctors?


Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
If I offer to buy you a cake if it is chocolate, I'm not mandating you buy chocolate cake.

"Why yes, I'll have the cake and an ectopic pregnancy, please schedule it for next Tuesday."
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Old 13th May 2019, 04:34 AM   #74
Meadmaker
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
If what you are saying is correct then I jumped to a conclusion or misinterpreted something. Doesn't change that these states are very much trying to eliminate huge swathes of women's healthcare.
What they are trying to eliminate is elective abortion, which I suppose is a "huge swath". People are probably a bit complacent about it. No one in America who is capable of getting pregnant today can remember a time when abortion was not a safe and legal option. It has just always been. If Roe v. Wade is overturned, and I think it will be, there will be some rude awakenings. Also, abortion will be front and center politically. For most of the electorate, it really hasn't been an issue for their whole lives. Whether a politician was for it or against it, the Supreme Court said it was legal, so it didn't much matter what the politician said.

Now, this issue is one that will actually affect people's lives in a big way, even more than whether they pay and additional 1% of their income in taxes.

In order to try to shake people out of their complacency, the opinion portion of the media exaggerates, engages in hyperbole, takes things out of context in order to distort it, and generally is more interested in gaining support than in providing accurate information. You bought into that hype.

For example:

Quote:
If Georgia gets its way when do women get so scared of being reported as pregnant that they just stop seeing doctors?

The answer is never. I don't know what's in the Georgia law, but I am extremely confident that there is nothing in it that would make a woman stop seeing a doctor, and I am extremely confident it would not provide the death penalty for a pregnant woman who gets an abortion. I say that without even knowing the contents of the bill. I will probably look it up to say what the bill really says, but I'm confident it is not that.

On the other hand, what they are actually doing is making it illegal to get an abortion. I am fairly certain that some of the various bills that have been passed lately could result in women being thrown in prison for getting, or possible even seeking, an abortion. I think that time is coming soon in America. On the other hand, I've thought that before. I remember the day that the opinion for Webster v. Missouri came out. For some reason, I happened to be home that day from work, and it was being covered live. There was a lot of anticipation that Roe was going to be overturned, but the Supreme Court surprised everyone. We'll see what happens this time around. That was a long time ago. I don't think anyone on the court today was on the court then.
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Old 13th May 2019, 04:44 AM   #75
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
If men could get pregnant this bill would not exist.
This forum is awash with transphobic bigotry.
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Old 13th May 2019, 08:10 AM   #76
Shalamar
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
This forum is awash with transphobic bigotry.
At least the misogyny is limited to the conservatives only.
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Old 13th May 2019, 08:35 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Tell me more about why you believe in Yahoo! News.
Well poison much? The story actually came from Fox Business.
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Old 13th May 2019, 08:51 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
HERESY!
Many realities that conflict with deeply held, though incorrect, opinions are, yes.
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Old 13th May 2019, 09:00 AM   #79
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
At least the misogyny is limited to the conservatives only.
Hardly. Have you seen how many people are backing Biden for the Dem nomination?
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Old 13th May 2019, 09:13 AM   #80
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Hardly. Have you seen how many people are backing Biden for the Dem nomination?
I think you are looking for a different word than misogyny. Sexist is probably a more accurate term for Biden.
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