No Knock Warrants and the EMT - Page 3

Arcade22 · 20th May 2020, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Suddenly

There is of course the issue of "Yes, but so what?"

The whole point of protections against police overreach is that they weigh the right of people to be secure from state intrusiveness more than police convenience, and by definition this will make it harder for police to do their jobs.

Well I think some crimes are serious enough that it's reasonable for police to be allowed to not disclose their presence and intentions before a raid or arrest because doing so would give the suspects a chance to dispose of or otherwise make evidence unavailable.

Suddenly · 20th May 2020, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Arcade22

Well I think some crimes are serious enough that it's reasonable for police to be allowed to not disclose their presence and intentions before a raid or arrest because doing so would give the suspects a chance to dispose of or otherwise make evidence unavailable.

Not really.

To be clear, "no knock" is an absurdly benign term for something that amounts to a sudden violent invasion by armed agents with the right to shoot anything that remotely scares them.

Drugs don't justify this. There aren't enough, if any, cases where it is reasonable to allow it at all.

SuburbanTurkey · 21st May 2020, 04:19 AM

Originally Posted by Suddenly

Not really.

To be clear, "no knock" is an absurdly benign term for something that amounts to a sudden violent invasion by armed agents with the right to shoot anything that remotely scares them.

Drugs don't justify this. There aren't enough, if any, cases where it is reasonable to allow it at all.

A tale as old as time. The extreme practice that police justify as only being used in the most unusual circumstances quickly becomes common practice.

Does anyone doubt that there were better alternatives in this case? Staking out the apartment and waiting for the residents to leave is an easy way to ensure they can't bunker down or destroy evidence. Why would cops bother when they can just pencil-whip a warrant and wrap things up quickly?

3point14 · 21st May 2020, 04:23 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

A tale as old as time. The extreme practice that police justify as only being used in the most unusual circumstances quickly becomes common practice.

Does anyone doubt that there were better alternatives in this case? Staking out the apartment and waiting for the residents to leave is an easy way to ensure they can't bunker down or destroy evidence. Why would cops bother when they can just pencil-whip a warrant and wrap things up quickly?

Yeah, but imagine how foolish they'd look if they spent three days staking out the wrong house while the bloke they were looking for was in custody.

SuburbanTurkey · 30th May 2020, 02:39 AM

911 transcripts from the Breonna Taylor shooting released. Pretty clear that the man who took shots at the police didn't understand that it was the police invading their home. How could he?

Quote:

"I don't know what happened ... somebody kicked in the door and shot my girlfriend," Walker told the dispatcher.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/breonna...lice-shooting/

20th May 2020, 09:39 AM	#81
Arcade22 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 6,781	Originally Posted by Suddenly There is of course the issue of "Yes, but so what?" The whole point of protections against police overreach is that they weigh the right of people to be secure from state intrusiveness more than police convenience, and by definition this will make it harder for police to do their jobs. Well I think some crimes are serious enough that it's reasonable for police to be allowed to not disclose their presence and intentions before a raid or arrest because doing so would give the suspects a chance to dispose of or otherwise make evidence unavailable.
	__________________ We would be a lot safer if the Government would take its money out of science and put it into astrology and the reading of palms. Only in superstition is there hope. - Kurt Vonnegut Jr And no, Cuba is not a brutal and corrupt dictatorship, and it's definitely less so than Sweden. - dann

21st May 2020, 04:19 AM	#83
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,012	Originally Posted by Suddenly Not really. To be clear, "no knock" is an absurdly benign term for something that amounts to a sudden violent invasion by armed agents with the right to shoot anything that remotely scares them. Drugs don't justify this. There aren't enough, if any, cases where it is reasonable to allow it at all. A tale as old as time. The extreme practice that police justify as only being used in the most unusual circumstances quickly becomes common practice. Does anyone doubt that there were better alternatives in this case? Staking out the apartment and waiting for the residents to leave is an easy way to ensure they can't bunker down or destroy evidence. Why would cops bother when they can just pencil-whip a warrant and wrap things up quickly?
	__________________ Gobble gobble Last edited by SuburbanTurkey; 21st May 2020 at 04:22 AM.

21st May 2020, 04:23 AM	#84
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 20,613	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey A tale as old as time. The extreme practice that police justify as only being used in the most unusual circumstances quickly becomes common practice. Does anyone doubt that there were better alternatives in this case? Staking out the apartment and waiting for the residents to leave is an easy way to ensure they can't bunker down or destroy evidence. Why would cops bother when they can just pencil-whip a warrant and wrap things up quickly? Yeah, but imagine how foolish they'd look if they spent three days staking out the wrong house while the bloke they were looking for was in custody.
3point14 Pi Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 20,613	__________________ Up the River! Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted] Last edited by 3point14; 21st May 2020 at 04:25 AM.

30th May 2020, 02:39 AM	#85
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,012	911 transcripts from the Breonna Taylor shooting released. Pretty clear that the man who took shots at the police didn't understand that it was the police invading their home. How could he? Quote: "I don't know what happened ... somebody kicked in the door and shot my girlfriend," Walker told the dispatcher. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/breonna...lice-shooting/
	__________________ Gobble gobble

20th May 2020, 01:06 PM	#82
Suddenly No Punting Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Not In Follansbee Posts: 4,118	Originally Posted by Arcade22 Well I think some crimes are serious enough that it's reasonable for police to be allowed to not disclose their presence and intentions before a raid or arrest because doing so would give the suspects a chance to dispose of or otherwise make evidence unavailable. Not really. To be clear, "no knock" is an absurdly benign term for something that amounts to a sudden violent invasion by armed agents with the right to shoot anything that remotely scares them. Drugs don't justify this. There aren't enough, if any, cases where it is reasonable to allow it at all.