Continuation The all-new "US Politics and coronavirus" thread pt. 2

[Lplus]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

From the medicine thread:


You have a poor understanding of socialism and an even poorer understanding of US law.

You're in the UK right? Does a grocery store storeowner have an obligation to feed a poor person who walks in and asks for food?

Both of our countries have a mix of capitalism and socialism.

US taxpayers paid for those doses. Trump does not own them. The guidelines were set up in a contract with Lilly as to how the doses would be allocated. Carson was apparently in Maryland at Walter Reed Hospital. Maryland public health would be responsible for distributing the doses there.

Walter Reed is a military hospital making it under federal jurisdiction rather than state. I'm not sure how federal hospitals were allocated doses (VA and military hospitals). I am sure they were not allocated by the POTUS.


You seem to be under the impression that graft is legal in this country. It is not.

That's insulting frankly.

The UK has a Democratic government, a Capitalist economy and a strong Welfare state.

Welfarism is not socialism, but it does benefit society as a whole so tends to be confused with Socialism.

[Resume]

From Worldometer:

Quote:

United States
Coronavirus Cases:
12,777,174
Deaths:
263,687

New Cases:
172,103
New Deaths:
972

[newyorkguy]

Last summer Dr Anthony Fauci warned that if states didn't reduce the virus they faced disaster come Fall. In response, president trump called him an idiot and said a few embers might ignite in the Fall but we would take care of them quickly.

Quote:

When infections began rising sharply in the U.S. in September, the growth was driven largely by outbreaks in the Upper Midwest. States like North Dakota and Wisconsin soon became the hardest hit in the nation, relative to their size, and the region continues to struggle. Now, though, with the whole country’s daily average of new cases is as high as it has ever been — over 171,000 — the most rapid growth is happening elsewhere. Nine states are reporting more than twice as many new cases a day as they did two weeks ago, and none of them are in the Midwest...Forty-five states are seeing sustained increases, and 17 states added more cases in the seven-day period that ended Sunday than in any other week of the pandemic. New York Times article

A lot of Americans listened to trump, apparently believed him. They chose not to wear face masks, social distance or curtail activities. Who was the idiot? In fact, I think you could make a strong case that what trump did was outright criminal.

[The Don]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

Last summer Dr Anthony Fauci warned that if states didn't reduce the virus they faced disaster come Fall. In response, president trump called him an idiot and said a few embers might ignite in the Fall but we would take care of them quickly.


A lot of Americans listened to trump, apparently believed him. They chose not to wear face masks, social distance or curtail activities. Who was the idiot? In fact, I think you could make a strong case that what trump did was outright criminal.

Using Trump logic - Dr Fauci is the idiot.

The only reason why the US has so many Covid-19 cases is testing.

The only reason why the US has had a spike in cases is Dr Fauci predicted it. If he had only kept his mouth shut - and stopped the testing - then the US wouldn't have had the spike in cases.

[thaiboxerken]

It's Schrodinger's virus. As long as you don't test for it, it may or may not exist.

[Bob001]

Originally Posted by The Don

Using Trump logic - Dr Fauci is the idiot.

The only reason why the US has so many Covid-19 cases is testing.

The only reason why the US has had a spike in cases is Dr Fauci predicted it. If he had only kept his mouth shut - and stopped the testing - then the US wouldn't have had the spike in cases.

Yeah, yeah, if there hadn't been so much testing nobody would be hospitalized and nobody would have died. Those tests are pure evil.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Planigale

Thank you,
I think the posts below are correct.

Satirical with relevance to certain important people who boast about minimising tax but get priority in access to scarce resources. That intellectually saying 'it is too difficult to prioritise so just distribute randomly' seems weak. Make a decision, triage. More satire, perhaps some irony, not really sarcasm.

Weak?

Availability of bamlanivimab in Washington

Quote:

Given the large number of patients who will be eligible to receive the drug and the relatively small number of doses allocated to the state, the Department of Health recommends that health care providers use a randomized selection process for all eligible patients who can have the drug safely administered. Currently, there is not enough data to narrow the criteria for use listed in the EUA.

IOW, there are still more patients that meet the triage criteria than available drug.

[alfaniner]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Weak?

Availability of bamlanivimab in Washington

IOW, there are still more patients that meet the triage criteria than available drug.

If that's a new drug and a made-up name for it, I think they should have gone with a palindrome.

[Meadmaker]

Here's an interesting story:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/24/polit...rts/index.html

Basically, the White House coronavirus task force is calling for significant behavioral changes, like masks and social distancing, to cut down the virus spread, and saying that in many parts of the country, it just isn't happening. Even, dare we say it, banning indoor restaurants is getting some mention from them. Also, they're comparing our performance to what has happened in Europe.

I have to wonder if the election of Joe Biden may already be paying some benefits.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems that the tone of this statement is both more realistic and more blunt than previous statements, as if the team may feel more free to speak than they used to be.

[Resume]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

Here's an interesting story:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/24/polit...rts/index.html

Basically, the White House coronavirus task force is calling for significant behavioral changes, like masks and social distancing, to cut down the virus spread, and saying that in many parts of the country, it just isn't happening. Even, dare we say it, banning indoor restaurants is getting some mention from them. Also, they're comparing our performance to what has happened in Europe.

I have to wonder if the election of Joe Biden may already be paying some benefits.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems that the tone of this statement is both more realistic and more blunt than previous statements, as if the team may feel more free to speak than they used to be.

To paraphrase The Amazing Yen in Ocean's 11 "Where the **** you been."

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by alfaniner

If that's a new drug and a made-up name for it, I think they should have gone with a palindrome.

The 'nivimab' means something I don't want to look up but a number of the 'biologics' for the autoimmune diseases and immunosuppression after an organ transplant have a similar suffix.

[Babbylonian]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

Here's an interesting story:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/24/polit...rts/index.html

Basically, the White House coronavirus task force is calling for significant behavioral changes, like masks and social distancing, to cut down the virus spread, and saying that in many parts of the country, it just isn't happening. Even, dare we say it, banning indoor restaurants is getting some mention from them. Also, they're comparing our performance to what has happened in Europe.

I have to wonder if the election of Joe Biden may already be paying some benefits.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it just seems that the tone of this statement is both more realistic and more blunt than previous statements, as if the team may feel more free to speak than they used to be.

It's proof of Trump's cowardice. That's the real reason he was never willing to acknowledge the seriousness of the virus and encourage the painful steps to address its spread: He was afraid his supporters (both rich/greedy and poor/dumb) might turn on him.

Now that he's accepting his lame duck status, he's probably taken himself out of the process when it comes to making decisions about how to deal with the virus.

[newyorkguy]

From the link:

Quote:

"There is aggressive, rapid, and expanding community spread across the country, reaching over 2,000 counties," said the set of reports, which were dated November 22 and obtained by CNN. The reports compared mitigation strategies such as mask usage, social distancing and dining restrictions working in some parts of the country to Europe, but warned that efforts in some parts of the US are not having an impact. Those mitigation strategies, the task force said, will require "significant behavior change of all Americans," including the wearing of masks.

"The continued increase in transmission remains concerning, especially given local hospital shortages and further increases anticipated over the upcoming holidays. Recent restrictions are warranted and commendable," the Pennsylvania report said. The task force praised Iowa this week after Republican Gov. Kim Reynolds instituted some masking policy...The task force also raised questions about supply levels at Louisiana hospitals. "There are early signs of reduced N95, gown, and glove supply in specific hospitals' reporting.

It's what the task force should have been doing all along but was prevented from doing by trump. I know it's unrealistic to expect trump to be charged, but to me it is pure criminal negligence. Too many hundreds of thousands of Americans became severely ill, too many tens of thousands of Americans lost their lives because of the actions of this one putrid dirtbag to call it anything less. It is exactly the kind of national coordination various governors were pleading for trump to provide back in March and April and trump refused.

Instead, his priority was being reelected. He played his stinking games for eleven months. Now look where we are. He should be jailed for this.

[Resume]

From Worldometer:

Quote:

United States
Coronavirus Cases:
12,955,007
Deaths:
265,891

New Cases:
175,047
New Deaths:
2,187

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by The Don

Using Trump logic - Dr Fauci is the idiot.

The only reason why the US has so many Covid-19 cases is testing.

The only reason why the US has had a spike in cases is Dr Fauci predicted it. If he had only kept his mouth shut - and stopped the testing - then the US wouldn't have had the spike in cases.

In another group I'm battling the mindset of another poster who hopes Biden replaces Fauci because "he's lost credibility from being on TV so much" and because "he told us not to wear masks back when this began". He also thinks the government is just trying to scare us by telling us we're all going to die if we don't wear masks and people are tired of the government telling us what we can and can't do after nine months". Sometimes I just despair at people's stupidity.

[dudalb]

https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-ri...r-thanksgiving

What a bunch of idiotic and dangerous crap.
And the writer of this turd is being dishonest: He is not a MD despite the Dr before his name. He has a PHD but is NOT a medical doctor.

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by dudalb

https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-ri...r-thanksgiving

What a bunch of idiotic and dangerous crap.
And the writer of this turd is being dishonest: He is not a MD despite the Dr before his name. He has a PHD but is NOT a medical doctor.

Not so fast.

Quote:

Roger D. Klein, MD JD is an Expert with the Federalist Society Regulatory Transparency Project’s FDA & Health Working Group, a former HHS Advisor to FDA, CMS and CDC, and a leading authority on public policies related to the implementation of precision medicine. A physician and an attorney, Dr. Klein was previously Medical Director of Molecular Oncology at Cleveland Clinic, and has served in leadership roles in many cancer-related professional society committees, including current Chair of the Association for Molecular Pathology’s (AMP’s) Solid Tumors Division. Notably, Dr. Klein was an Expert and key spokesperson for AMP in its landmark lawsuit in which the U.S. Supreme Court invalidated patents on “the breast cancer genes.” He is a frequent guest on national radio and television programs and a regular opinion contributor to The Hill, the Daily Caller, Real Clear Health, Investor’s Business Daily, and other periodicals. Dr. Klein completed post-graduate medical training at Yale Medical School and obtained his J.D. from Yale Law School.

http://rogerdklein.com/about/

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by dudalb

https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-ri...r-thanksgiving

What a bunch of idiotic and dangerous crap.
And the writer of this turd is being dishonest: He is not a MD despite the Dr before his name. He has a PHD but is NOT a medical doctor.

It's the same BS they've been fed that they don't believe they've been fed.

Why are public health measures to stop a pandemic controlling people and telling them what to do yada yada.

And the denial: heck, most people do fine. So what? Just don't invite the grandparents or Aunt Flo because she has diabetes.

And all those full hospitals and morgues/funeral homes? An exaggeration by the fear mongering liberals.


The bizarre thing is they want us to be afraid of immigrants, most of whom are picking the crops, and processing the turkeys that go into that Thanksgiving dinner.

But recklessly exposing health care workers, no of course that isn't really happening.

Then there is this irony:

Quote:

Trust between health officials and the public must be earned. Once squandered, it is not easily recovered. Therefore, it is imperative that recommendations and edicts when handed down rest on firm medical and scientific footings. If they do not, that too must be clearly explained to the public, along with the rationale for abandoning usual standards of evidence. The latter instances would, hopefully, be rare.

Public health information and regulations must be issued and enforced in an unbiased, apolitical manner. They should apply equally to all citizens, including public officials, based on objectively agreed-upon criteria and considerations.

That makes me want to puke. Trump ruined the CDC's integrity and he most certainly injected politics while removing the science from the public health discourse.

And why wait, have that last hurrah before the vaccines arrive.

Quote:

The announcements of highly promising interim results from three late-stage trials suggest Americans will soon have access to effective vaccines, perhaps in weeks.

Doctor and lawyer, and still that ignorant. There's a little survey at the end of the article. The most votes go to "angry" but it's not clear who is angry at what, until you read the comments. People are angry at the doctor.

Quote:

As an infectious disease specialist, I'll tell you Dr. Klein is an oncologist, which gives him a bit, but in no way significant infectious disease experience. It's not as bad as Scott Atlas, a radiologist who has less experience than the receptionist at your chiropractor's office.

[thaiboxerken]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

In another group I'm battling the mindset of another poster who hopes Biden replaces Fauci because "he's lost credibility from being on TV so much" and because "he told us not to wear masks back when this began". He also thinks the government is just trying to scare us by telling us we're all going to die if we don't wear masks and people are tired of the government telling us what we can and can't do after nine months". Sometimes I just despair at people's stupidity.

It's the culmination of the Republican message since Reagan. Experts are just elite snobs that don't know anything and government is the problem, not a solution.

[Meadmaker]

The US has moved into 7th place in deaths per capita. The US, Britain, and Italy have all surged past Brazil and Mexico. The US is behind Britain and Italy, who had been ahead for a long time.

And....what is up with Spain? They've got a huge and rising death rate. I though the US would catch them, but right now they are at 942 deaths per million, more than 100 higher than the US. I think at one point they were within 30, but even with the US's climbing death rates, Spain has been widening the gap rapidly.

ETA: I did see what I could find about Spain, and here's a Lancet article from October 16.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...239-5/fulltext

Basic answers: Lack of preparation. Poor contact tracing. Disregarding scientific advice. Sounds a little like us, but throw higher poverty and a strained public health system on top of it.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

The US has moved into 7th place in deaths per capita. The US, Britain, and Italy have all surged past Brazil and Mexico. The US is behind Britain and Italy, who had been ahead for a long time.

And....what is up with Spain? They've got a huge and rising death rate. I though the US would catch them, but right now they are at 942 deaths per million, more than 100 higher than the US. I think at one point they were within 30, but even with the US's climbing death rates, Spain has been widening the gap rapidly.

What's up with Britain? How is the US behind them?

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

What's up with Britain? How is the US behind them?

My wording was unclear, although it means what you thought it meant. I figured I should correct it for other people trying to understand "ahead" and "behind".

The US deaths per capita is currently lower than either Britain or Italy. The US death rate had been higher than either of those countries for a long time, but they have had more deaths lately, and have moved back to a position higher than us on the charts. Italy stands at number 4, Britain at number 5, and the US at number 7.

[Roger Ramjets]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

And....what is up with Spain? They've got a huge and rising death rate. I though the US would catch them, but right now they are at 942 deaths per million, more than 100 higher than the US.

The US has the advantage of being big country that the virus spread through slowly. But if you look at individual states you will see that some have much higher rates than others, just like some European countries have much higher rates than others.

Not to minimize the mess in Europe though. Balls have been dropped all round, and unfortunately those of us with sense do not have the ear of our leaders. Very disappointing, but sadly just as expected. Every country/state that didn't squash the virus was playing with fire, and now they are getting burned.

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

My wording was unclear, although it means what you thought it meant. I figured I should correct it for other people trying to understand "ahead" and "behind".

The US deaths per capita is currently lower than either Britain or Italy. The US death rate had been higher than either of those countries for a long time, but they have had more deaths lately, and have moved back to a position higher than us on the charts. Italy stands at number 4, Britain at number 5, and the US at number 7.

I thought I knew what you meant until this.

Per capita: that's what I thought and what I am very surprised about.

What are you calling "death rate"? Are you referring to deaths/day or something?

[crescent]

The Mayor of Denver warned people not to travel for Thanksgiving. Half an hour later, he boarded a flight to Texas to visit his daughter and wife for the Holiday.

After warnings to avoid travel, Denver Mayor Hancock flies to visit family for Thanksgiving

Can't make this stuff up.

[Delphic Oracle]

Originally Posted by crescent

The Mayor of Denver warned people not to travel for Thanksgiving. Half an hour later, he boarded a flight to Texas to visit his daughter and wife for the Holiday.



After warnings to avoid travel, Denver Mayor Hancock flies to visit family for Thanksgiving



Can't make this stuff up.

Worse, he's got claims of special circumstances (daughter got a new job) and argues it is safer than some even more careless type of gathering.

Great, so he basically demonstrated that as long as you can string a few sentences together, none of the guidance applies to you.

ETA: The councilperson quoted says he made a "personal decision." Well, ok then. Millions of other people now feel totally okay with their own "personal decisions", too.

[Meadmaker]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I thought I knew what you meant until this.

Per capita: that's what I thought and what I am very surprised about.

What are you calling "death rate"? Are you referring to deaths/day or something?

Sorry. I meant deaths per capita in every case.

[Resume]

From Worldometer:

Quote:

United States
Coronavirus Cases:
13,137,962
Deaths:
268,219

New Cases:
180,903
New Deaths:
2,302

[newyorkguy]

Originally Posted by Meadmaker

...The US deaths per capita is currently lower than either Britain or Italy. The US death rate had been higher than either of those countries for a long time, but they have had more deaths lately, and have moved back to a position higher than us on the charts. Italy stands at number 4, Britain at number 5, and the US at number 7.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets

...Every country/state that didn't squash the virus was playing with fire, and now they are getting burned.

I think a good deal of caution is needed before anyone tries to 'explain' why the virus does seem more deadly in some nations than others. Or to draw broad conclusions from that. If you look at the new case graphs below, Italy and the UK did do a pretty good job of 'squashing the curve' beginning in May through the end of September. Spain from May through the end of July. The US never did squash the curve. The rate of infection held fairly steady from April through the end of June when it began rising again. Towards the middle of August there was some decline -- although case numbers were still higher than those in April. Case numbers leveled off until October and then really began to climb. On November 4th (ironically the much talked about 'day after the election') the US went above 100,000 cases per day and has stayed there. With half our population, Italy, Spain and the UK have a little over one-third as many cases, about 4.7 million. The US passed 13 million this morning. With 4% of the world's population, the US has a little over 20% of the total number of Covid-19 cases worldwide

[fromdownunder]

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

Italy and the UK did do a pretty good job of 'squashing the curve' beginning in May through the end of September. Spain from May through the end of July.

Well, not really. It may have been flattened a bit, but at best, the seven day moving average of daily infections was always high in the major European countries, even at the "best" of times during the European Summer, with these countries never getting below the daily average listed below:

France 300 new cases
Spain 250
Great Britain 550
Germany 340
Italy 200
Poland 300.

That is not near really flattening anything. That is just an invitation to the Virus to go forth and multiply and spread further and faster if you open up too fast as much of Europe did.

For comparison, the second wave in Australia was limited to Victoria and started through a botched quarantine situation by a returning overseas traveler and an under trained security guard. Two cases. From there, until strong measures were taken peaked us at 750 in a single day and a total of around 18,000 cases and took four months to fully control. It is now back to zero.

See the difference here? 200 - 550 above in these European countries became essentially the "normal" in communities last Summer in the North. But when one small outbreak of two can lead to 750 in a single day, how many can 200 - 500, probably mostly untracked, daily new cases lead to? The answer is in your graphs.


It needs to be controlled until you reach spot fire level where every new case can be found and contact traced, and all involved adequately quarantined. Until the vaccine reaches critical mass, the numbers will remain bad, and certainly remain high. "Good enough" in this case is not good enough.



Norm

[newyorkguy]

In April and May new cases in the US were running at 20,000 to 25,000 cases per day. In July it was over 60,000 cases per day. (On July 16th it was 75,000.) That's a lot of cases. The population of the six nations listed above is roughly the same size as the US. The daily average shown is about 2,000 cases a day. I don't see that it really compares with what has been happening in the US.

The chart below is from May to October.

[Resume]

From Worldometer:

Quote:

United States
Coronavirus Cases:
13,248,676
Deaths:
269,555

New Cases:
108,063
New Deaths:
1,306

Trump is one pig-ignorant mother ******.

Quote:

Trump, in the annual Thanksgiving Day proclamation released by the White House, thanked first responders, medical professional and essential workers for their service to the country, but ended the message by encouraging “all Americans to gather, in homes and places of worship.”

This is exactly the opposite guidance that’s coming from the country’s top public health officials who have spent the past few weeks pleading with Americans to reconsider their Thanksgiving plans and cancel out-of-state travel.

[Mader Levap]

After humanity finishes with diseases of body, it will have to tackle diseases of mind, especially infectious ones.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by Mader Levap

After humanity finishes with diseases of body, it will have to tackle diseases of mind, especially infectious ones.

Good luck with that.....

[Resume]

Just in time to ensure even more COVID spread, the SCOTUS weighs in to assist:

Quote:

The U.S. Supreme Court has temporarily barred New York from enforcing strict attendance limits on places of worship in areas designated coronavirus hot spots, in a decision released just before midnight on Wednesday.

The decision marked a major shift for the court, in essence at least a partial reversal of previous rulings, as well as a clear indication of the court's dramatic move to the right with the addition of new Justice Amy Coney Barrett in place of the late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

Trump's SC appointees will be a gift that keeps on giving for years.

[Olmstead]

Despite the rulling of the Supreme Court, I implore fellow Satanists to remain in their basements.

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

The 'nivimab' means something I don't want to look up but a number of the 'biologics' for the autoimmune diseases and immunosuppression after an organ transplant have a similar suffix.

I know enough to be fairly sure that the "mab" part is monoclonal antibody

[Skeptic Ginger]

Originally Posted by jimbob

I know enough to be fairly sure that the "mab" part is monoclonal antibody

That makes sense. Thanks.

[slyjoe]

Originally Posted by jimbob

I know enough to be fairly sure that the "mab" part is monoclonal antibody

Here is a nice list of stems, prefixes, roots, and suffixes for drugs.

https://mynursingmastery.com/blog/dr...s-and-suffixes

[Horatius]

Originally Posted by Olmstead

Despite the rulling of the Supreme Court, I implore fellow Satanists to remain in their basements.

You don't control me! I'm going to hide in my attic, fascist!