Maybe Trump will not be such a terrible president. - Page 4

Trebuchet · 10th November 2016, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Argumemnon

You have no idea how utterly ridiculous your medical system looks to anybody outside the US.

It looks pretty ridiculous to most of us, as well.

TragicMonkey · 10th November 2016, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Trebuchet

It looks pretty ridiculous to most of us, as well.

What are talking about? It looks great to me, all soft and fuzzy through the cataracts I can't afford to have treated. A splendid system.

Dr. Keith · 10th November 2016, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

They voted for him over the gal who didn't understand their concern and didn't even try to convince them that she would do a better job of addressing it.

Maybe they voted for him not because they thought he'd actually fix it, but because they were convinced she would only make it worse. This is probably only a little bit about Trump's actual platform, and a lot about flipping a giant middle finger at Hillary the Progressive Statesman.

I can't imagine a clearer message of Do Not Want than to choose Trump instead of whatever you imagine people should want. Has it not occurred to you that this strategy of telling people that they should shut up, sit down, and let the elites do all their deciding for them, is not such a great strategy?

Has it ever occurred to you that showing sincere empathy for the people you're supposedly trying to help might build more trust with them than constant vilification and disdain?

"But Trump doesn't have a sincere bone in his body!" you say. "Trump is utterly incapable of empathy!" you say. And sure. You're right, of course. But what you comically, willfully, tragically, pathetically fail to understand is that the people who voted for Trump think you're no different from him. You've worked very hard to alienate half the country. Don't act so surprised that half the country treats you like an alien invasion.

Well said.

marplots · 10th November 2016, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Argumemnon

You have no idea how utterly ridiculous your medical system looks to anybody outside the US.

Calling it a "system" is a kind fiction.

Try it this way instead:
Take everything you know about Windows updates, bloatware, and Microsoft's aspirations to live in monopoly-ville and then add a few dimensions at right angles. Populate those dimensions with government, the educational system, entropy and technology. Give everyone a license to run their own little fiefdom and a battery-operated abacus to do it with. And then allow the environment and evolution to periodically inject crises while you spray money around like it's fresh sausage coming off a conveyor belt.

That's closer.

Elind · 10th November 2016, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

They voted for him over the gal who didn't understand their concern and didn't even try to convince them that she would do a better job of addressing it.

Maybe they voted for him not because they thought he'd actually fix it, but because they were convinced she would only make it worse. This is probably only a little bit about Trump's actual platform, and a lot about flipping a giant middle finger at Hillary the Progressive Statesman.

I can't imagine a clearer message of Do Not Want than to choose Trump instead of whatever you imagine people should want. Has it not occurred to you that this strategy of telling people that they should shut up, sit down, and let the elites do all their deciding for them, is not such a great strategy?

Has it ever occurred to you that showing sincere empathy for the people you're supposedly trying to help might build more trust with them than constant vilification and disdain?

"But Trump doesn't have a sincere bone in his body!" you say. "Trump is utterly incapable of empathy!" you say. And sure. You're right, of course. But what you comically, willfully, tragically, pathetically fail to understand is that the people who voted for Trump think you're no different from him. You've worked very hard to alienate half the country. Don't act so surprised that half the country treats you like an alien invasion.

I think you over analyse the issue. People voted for Trump because they were easily taken in, both by his impossible and even unconstitutional promises and also by his unprincipled lies about his opponents, including his fellow GOP candidates.

What was said about him was mostly simply repeating his own words and since if that didn't work I doubt that Hillary stooping as low would have made any difference.

As to your mention of "elites", have you noticed how this word has been popping up lately in ads and conservative commentary as well as multiple times in a real nasty conspiracy ad by the NRA just before the election?

Elites is a code word for people who have earned their public status through hard work, ability and education and intelligence. It does not take much knowledge of history to know where that kind of social differentiation has been applied in the past in many nations by those seeking the support of the sector that has not been able to achieve the aforementioned goals.

Emily's Cat · 10th November 2016, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by fuelair

Hopefully they will turn on him, march on and destroy much of downtown DC (except the Library of Congress; the Smithsonian and the very new National Museum of African American History & Culture) and be killed by the military after they have mostly accomplished their goal re: Trump's lies to them. They richly deserve that!!!!!!!

Are you actually wishing for the brutal death of half the country? And you're okay with that?

Emily's Cat · 10th November 2016, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

Are predictions not allowed?

Tell you what, if the Trump administration is all sweetness and light, come back and tell me how tasteless I have been. In the meantime I'm judging the man on his character and so-called policies. The US and the world will suffer, and I will keep on stating this.

Tell me what do you think of the upcoming trade war with China and repudiation of greenhouse gas abatement? Good policies?

I, along with countless others think no. What about you?

No, I will not give this idiot any slack. Vitriol it is.

I'm not seeing these as "predictions":

Originally Posted by NoahFence

He's a gifted salesman. He knows how to defraud people. Those are his skills.

Uh, President of the United States? I think that person needs at least a little character?

Originally Posted by NoahFence

His supporters will applaud him for a job well done, oblivious to the fact that he did nothing in his xenophobic piece of **** administration that they elected him to do.

Originally Posted by mumblethrax

The man is a waking horror. The election served as a referendum on basic democratic values, and basic democratic values lost.

Originally Posted by lionking

Because it's deserved. There has never been a more ludicrous president than Trump. Are you really comparing him to Obama?

Originally Posted by fuelair

Maybe Trump will not be such a terrible president.

Maybe **** won't stink anymore.

Originally Posted by fuelair

Maybe cancer will turn out to be good for us.

Originally Posted by Spindrift

The only way Trump could be a good president is if right after taking the oath he has a massive coronary and falls on Mike Pence snapping Pence's neck on the way down. I'll take Paul Ryan over those two.

Originally Posted by fuelair

Hopefully they will turn on him, march on and destroy much of downtown DC (except the Library of Congress; the Smithsonian and the very new National Museum of African American History & Culture) and be killed by the military after they have mostly accomplished their goal re: Trump's lies to them. They richly deserve that!!!!!!!

Emily's Cat · 10th November 2016, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by wareyin

Judging by the Facebook memes, the fact that a minority of voters voted for Trump does look like it was all about flipping a giant middle finger not just at Clinton, but at the Republican establishment as well. I've seen a lot of posts claiming that when the establishment, R and D both, don't like you, it means you are for the people.

Indeed, letting people who know what they are doing make the decisions is a terrible strategy! The ignorance of those who are happy to watch the world burn is equal to the knowledge of those who can fix things. Of course, the rubes who think this are constantly spoon-fed this nonsense by the elites at FOX News (among others), but these elites are good because reasons.

Golly, yeah, it sure wasn't people spreading bs memes about elites spreading "constant vilification and disdain" that made the people voting for Trump think elites are no better than Trump.

Wow. Way to miss the core concept.

Emily's Cat · 10th November 2016, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by NoahFence

The doom and gloom predictions are based on what his stated policies are, not some twisted translation of them. These are based on what he's said.

It seems a fair amount of people voted for him based on them being fully aware that he has no intention of putting forth what he campaigned on?

Am I getting that right?

In my opinion, yes - I think most people don't expect him to actually do the ridiculous things he claimed. But I also think that most people believe Hillary won't even *try* to do anything about the issues they care about. His ideas are stupid and unworkable, but at least he's thinking about it and giving consideration to their concerns, where Clinton (and most of her supporters) are busy just saying "Oh shut up, you're too stupid to think about stuff. Just let us betters do your thinking for you"

wareyin · 10th November 2016, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Wow. Way to miss the core concept.

Perhaps you can explain what the core concept was, then? Do you disagree that a lot of those that voted for Trump were giving the middle finger not just to Clinton, but to "the establishment" whether D or R? (Remind me what Paul Ryan's favorability ratings are compared to Trump's, again?) Do you disagree that, to people intent on giving the finger to "the establishment", their ignorance is just as good as <sneering voice>those elites</sneering voice>? Do you disagree that rich, elitist guys like Sean Hannity have been telling people that 'it's those Dems who are the real elites, and they hate you'?

Emily's Cat · 10th November 2016, 12:16 PM

Seriously, you guys are really missing the point here.

Originally Posted by theprestige

Has it not occurred to you that this strategy of telling people that they should shut up, sit down, and let the elites do all their deciding for them, is not such a great strategy?

Has it ever occurred to you that showing sincere empathy for the people you're supposedly trying to help might build more trust with them than constant vilification and disdain?

...

You've worked very hard to alienate half the country. Don't act so surprised that half the country treats you like an alien invasion.

And your responses are...

Originally Posted by Elind

People voted for Trump because they were easily taken in...

...Elites is a code word for people who have earned their public status through hard work, ability and education and intelligence.

Translation: Half the country is just dummies, and they shouldn't be allowed to think. They should let our side do all their thinking for them, because we're better than them.

Originally Posted by wareyin

The ignorance of those who are happy to watch the world burn

Because again, half the country is just ignorant bumpkins whose opinions and concerns shouldn't count!

NoahFence · 10th November 2016, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

In my opinion, yes - I think most people don't expect him to actually do the ridiculous things he claimed. But I also think that most people believe Hillary won't even *try* to do anything about the issues they care about. His ideas are stupid and unworkable, but at least he's thinking about it and giving consideration to their concerns, where Clinton (and most of her supporters) are busy just saying "Oh shut up, you're too stupid to think about stuff. Just let us betters do your thinking for you"

It's hard to imagine that they're not too stupid when they disregard basic facts.

NoahFence · 10th November 2016, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Because again, half the country is just ignorant bumpkins whose opinions and concerns shouldn't count!

Yes they are ignorant bumpkins whose ignorant, fact free opinions shouldn't count.

Yes, they are ignorant bumpkins when their concerns are unfounded and in some cases, already addressed!

Afraid the government is coming for their guns. Well, I guess not seeing as though they still have them.
Morons want so badly for things to be the way they want it to be, they forget to double check if they're not already the way they want it to be.

Emily's Cat · 10th November 2016, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by wareyin

Perhaps you can explain what the core concept was, then? Do you disagree that a lot of those that voted for Trump were giving the middle finger not just to Clinton, but to "the establishment" whether D or R? (Remind me what Paul Ryan's favorability ratings are compared to Trump's, again?) Do you disagree that, to people intent on giving the finger to "the establishment", their ignorance is just as good as <sneering voice>those elites</sneering voice>? Do you disagree that rich, elitist guys like Sean Hannity have been telling people that 'it's those Dems who are the real elites, and they hate you'?

Oh I agree that they were tired of career politicians who are working for their own ends and pretending it's all for the good of "the people" while simultaneously not bothering to listen to the people. Many people, myself included, are sick to death of the establishment. But I think that those who were most strongly against the establishment voted 3rd party.

I also think that your characterization of half the country as "ignorant", the constant disdain toward them, the constant derision and the repeated subtext that they're too stupid to be given consideration, that their concerns don't matter because they aren't as good as you, that their worries aren't worthy of consideration and they should just let your side do all their thinking for them, the implicit and implacable message that your side knows what's best for them - more so than they know about themselves... gets heard loud and clear and is not appreciated. Throughout this campaign, Clinton has treated half the country with condescension. She has appealed to arrogance among her constituents, and has effectively messaged that "those other people" are deplorable, ignorable, and not important.

And I think that last bit there - that's the core concept that you're missing.

When you treat people as if they don't matter to you and aren't worthy of your consideration, you shouldn't be surprised when they reject you.

trustbutverify · 10th November 2016, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

In my opinion, yes - I think most people don't expect him to actually do the ridiculous things he claimed. But I also think that most people believe Hillary won't even *try* to do anything about the issues they care about. His ideas are stupid and unworkable, but at least he's thinking about it and giving consideration to their concerns, where Clinton (and most of her supporters) are busy just saying "Oh shut up, you're too stupid to think about stuff. Just let us betters do your thinking for you"

I agree with most of this comment, but I've seen no evidence for the highlighted. His "rallies" seemed to contradict it.

Emily's Cat · 10th November 2016, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

I agree with most of this comment, but I've seen no evidence for the highlighted. His "rallies" seemed to contradict it.

I think you err by assuming that they are taking him literally. You mistake the enthusiasm for someone listening to and giving thought to their concerns with acceptance of a foolish plan. Look - I'm quite certain there are *some* people who literally want to build a wall. But they aren't a majority, they're a very small minority. And they certainly aren't half the country. Maybe the democrats would have treated independents and conservatives with respect and consideration, rather than treating half the nation as if they are foolish children who need someone "better" to take care of them.

NoahFence · 10th November 2016, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

I think you err by assuming that they are taking him literally. You mistake the enthusiasm for someone listening to and giving thought to their concerns with acceptance of a foolish plan.

Enthusiasm = "Lock her up!! Lock her up!! Lock her up!!"

trustbutverify · 10th November 2016, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

I think you err by assuming that they are taking him literally. You mistake the enthusiasm for someone listening to and giving thought to their concerns with acceptance of a foolish plan.

Maybe. Or maybe you're whistling in the dark. Some of them kicked a kid in a wheel chair for not being "enthusiastic" enough.

trustbutverify · 10th November 2016, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by NoahFence

Enthusiasm = "Lock her up!! Lock her up!! Lock her up!!"

Build that wall!!!

mikado · 10th November 2016, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by baron

I think he'll surprise me, but only because my expectations are so low he can't help but exceed them. Yet another reason to be thankful I live in the UK.

snap....but i wish i lived in the u.k.

wareyin · 10th November 2016, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Oh I agree that they were tired of career politicians who are working for their own ends and pretending it's all for the good of "the people" while simultaneously not bothering to listen to the people. Many people, myself included, are sick to death of the establishment. But I think that those who were most strongly against the establishment voted 3rd party.

Third party got less than 4% of the vote, so I think that's wrong. Trump portrayed himself as the anti-establishment candidate, what with all his "drain the swamp" rhetoric, and people took him at his word.

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

I also think that your characterization of half the country as "ignorant", the constant disdain toward them, the constant derision and the repeated subtext that they're too stupid to be given consideration, that their concerns don't matter because they aren't as good as you, that their worries aren't worthy of consideration and they should just let your side do all their thinking for them, the implicit and implacable message that your side knows what's best for them - more so than they know about themselves... gets heard loud and clear and is not appreciated. Throughout this campaign, Clinton has treated half the country with condescension. She has appealed to arrogance among her constituents, and has effectively messaged that "those other people" are deplorable, ignorable, and not important.

And I think that last bit there - that's the core concept that you're missing.

When you treat people as if they don't matter to you and aren't worthy of your consideration, you shouldn't be surprised when they reject you.

A bit of projection, there? Because I can admit that I'm ignorant of a lot of things, and I have absolutely no problem letting those who know what they are doing handle things when I don't. You seem to be demanding that a bunch of people who have no idea what they are doing, nor want to learn, jump in and handle those things. I think that's a very bad idea.

And that's the core concept you are missing.

Belz... · 10th November 2016, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by NoahFence

Yes they are ignorant bumpkins whose ignorant, fact free opinions shouldn't count.

Yes, they are ignorant bumpkins when their concerns are unfounded and in some cases, already addressed!

Good news, though: they can become informed and fact-filled, and then their opinions will count! All it takes is a little effort and some rationality.

TragicMonkey · 10th November 2016, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

I think you err by assuming that they are taking him literally. You mistake the enthusiasm for someone listening to and giving thought to their concerns with acceptance of a foolish plan. Look - I'm quite certain there are *some* people who literally want to build a wall. But they aren't a majority, they're a very small minority. And they certainly aren't half the country. Maybe the democrats would have treated independents and conservatives with respect and consideration, rather than treating half the nation as if they are foolish children who need someone "better" to take care of them.

Tell me, what would be the appropriate degree of respect I should give to somebody who tells me 'faggots shouldn't be able to get married, it's against God'? Am I allowed to disagree with them, or is it disrespectful? Do I have to say I find their opinion equally valid as my own even though they do not feel that way about my opinion? And of course my opinion about gay marriage, if implemented, affects me and not them, whereas their opinion if implemented affects me and not them.

You are asking me to give opposing viewpoints everything they want without any concession to my viewpoints on a matter that infringes my civil rights and not theirs, on the basis of 'being respectful'.

TragicMonkey · 10th November 2016, 01:10 PM

To put it another way, it doesn't work to say everybody's opinion is equally valid if one group's opinion is that the other groups' opinions aren't valid.

Belz... · 10th November 2016, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Tell me, what would be the appropriate degree of respect I should give to somebody who tells me 'faggots shouldn't be able to get married, it's against God'? Am I allowed to disagree with them, or is it disrespectful? Do I have to say I find their opinion equally valid as my own even though they do not feel that way about my opinion? And of course my opinion about gay marriage, if implemented, affects me and not them, whereas their opinion if implemented affects me and not them.

I've always found it puzzling that some people are so adamant about making laws that doesn't affect them in any way, seemingly just to spite people they dislike.

wareyin · 10th November 2016, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by Argumemnon

I've always found it puzzling that some people are so adamant about making laws that doesn't affect them in any way, seemingly just to spite people they dislike.

All while claiming that it's really those other people who spite them. Such as with gay marriage, the "gay agenda", etc.

ponderingturtle · 10th November 2016, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

I think you err by assuming that they are taking him literally. You mistake the enthusiasm for someone listening to and giving thought to their concerns with acceptance of a foolish plan. Look - I'm quite certain there are *some* people who literally want to build a wall. But they aren't a majority, they're a very small minority. And they certainly aren't half the country. Maybe the democrats would have treated independents and conservatives with respect and consideration, rather than treating half the nation as if they are foolish children who need someone "better" to take care of them.

Where is your poll data that shows that the people chanting "Build the Wall" at trump events don't actually expect him to build the wall?

So you assume everything he said was a lie why vote for someone when you have no idea what his actual positions are because everything he says is a lie?

NoahFence · 10th November 2016, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Argumemnon

Good news, though: they can become informed and fact-filled, and then their opinions will count! All it takes is a little effort and some rationality.

If they chose that we wouldn't be in this mess.

The Great Zaganza · 10th November 2016, 01:22 PM

If you fear gays, you are obviously not very certain of your own sexual orientation...

ponderingturtle · 10th November 2016, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by NoahFence

Enthusiasm = "Lock her up!! Lock her up!! Lock her up!!"

As chanted on wall street yesterday.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/09/inve...llary-clinton/

But clearly they are too educated to believe what trump has said about that, no one seriously believes that either.

trustbutverify · 10th November 2016, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

If you fear gays, you are obviously not very certain of your own sexual orientation...

Guess that explains why I've never feared gays.

trustbutverify · 10th November 2016, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

As chanted on wall street yesterday.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/09/inve...llary-clinton/

But clearly they are too educated to believe what trump has said about that, no one seriously believes that either.

I thought the parasitic speculators, feeding off the hard work of salt-of-the-Earth America, were HRC's bread and butter.

Belz... · 10th November 2016, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

If you fear gays, you are obviously not very certain of your own sexual orientation...

That's a strange thing to say. For a lot of homophobes, it's simply that they have no clue what gay people are. They think they're choosing perversion of god's natural order and that they will corrupt others into doing so as well.

Darth Rotor · 10th November 2016, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Crossbow

I am sure that the Trump Administration will be very good for Donald J. Trump,

Yeah, that's his MO.

Quote:

and I am also sure that Donald J. Trump will be very bad for the USA.

And I am sure you'll never win Randi's prize.

I have no idea if he'll be good, bad, or something in between. Any success hinges for a cabinet and if he, like every other president before him, learns on the job ... or not. The "not" has some serious down side.

I am trending toward the "not good." Why? I don't believe that anyone with the talent required would want to work with him as a cabinet officer. He doesn't listen.

That leaves the checks and balances protection vis a vis Congres- half of "his" party can't tolerate him. With the cat herding exercise that is any attempt at leadership in Congress, I am not sanguine with the prospects. (Last I heard it was better than 50-50 odds that Ryan loses the Speakership, but it's a fluid situation, and my source is out of the country at the moment).

The magic 8 ball would not even entertain the question.

It's a crap shoot ... and I guess we get to live out that old Chinese proverb/curse that goes like this
May you live in interesting times.
Things are about to get interesting.

dudalb · 10th November 2016, 05:49 PM

Quote:

I am trending toward the "not good." Why? I don't believe that anyone with the talent required would want to work with him as a cabinet officer. He doesn't listen.

It's worse:It is somebody who does not listen who thinks he knows it all.

dudalb · 10th November 2016, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Yeah, that's his MO.

And I am sure you'll never win Randi's prize.

I have no idea if he'll be good, bad, or something in between. Any success hinges for a cabinet and if he, like every other president before him, learns on the job ... or not. The "not" has some serious down side.

I am trending toward the "not good." Why? I don't believe that anyone with the talent required would want to work with him as a cabinet officer. He doesn't listen.

That leaves the checks and balances protection vis a vis Congres- half of "his" party can't tolerate him. With the cat herding exercise that is any attempt at leadership in Congress, I am not sanguine with the prospects. (Last I heard it was better than 50-50 odds that Ryan loses the Speakership, but it's a fluid situation, and my source is out of the country at the moment).

The magic 8 ball would not even entertain the question.

It's a crap shoot ... and I guess we get to live out that old Chinese proverb/curse that goes like this
May you live in interesting times.
Things are about to get interesting.

The irony is that the Freedom Caucus..the big Anti Ryan group in the house itself is VERY divided on Trump. This might work in Ryan's favor:They might decide not to make any chages until they learn what they are dealing with as far as Trump goes.

Maartenn100 · 10th November 2016, 06:27 PM

I didn't read the whole thread, but I'm not from the US and we read in our newspapers that Ben Carson may be the next secretary of education... The creationist who thinks that the theory of evolution is an invention of Satan. Good luck with that one.

fuelair · 10th November 2016, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by Argumemnon

You have no idea how utterly ridiculous your medical system looks to anybody outside the US.

No argument on that!!!

fuelair · 10th November 2016, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by xjx388

No. I think he was elected because he was at least talking about those issues. I think most people realize he can't build a wall or impose religious tests on immigration.

No, they hope with all their cold little dead hearts and souls that he can and will. They really are and always will be deplorables. They have no worth. If there was a god they would all be in hell (assuming Jesus also existed given HIS rules for them)!!!!!!!!!

Stacko · 10th November 2016, 08:47 PM

He's not going to change.

Just had a very open and successful presidential election. Now professional protesters, incited by the media, are protesting. Very unfair!

It's just going to be magnified.

ETA: For a laugh:

We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!

What a difference four years makes in the validity of protest.

10th November 2016, 09:10 AM	#121
Trebuchet Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Townsend, Washington Posts: 31,059	Originally Posted by Argumemnon You have no idea how utterly ridiculous your medical system looks to anybody outside the US. It looks pretty ridiculous to most of us, as well.
	__________________ Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.

10th November 2016, 09:16 AM	#122
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,506	Originally Posted by Trebuchet It looks pretty ridiculous to most of us, as well. What are talking about? It looks great to me, all soft and fuzzy through the cataracts I can't afford to have treated. A splendid system.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

10th November 2016, 09:20 AM	#123
Dr. Keith Not a doctor. Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 22,574	Originally Posted by theprestige They voted for him over the gal who didn't understand their concern and didn't even try to convince them that she would do a better job of addressing it. Maybe they voted for him not because they thought he'd actually fix it, but because they were convinced she would only make it worse. This is probably only a little bit about Trump's actual platform, and a lot about flipping a giant middle finger at Hillary the Progressive Statesman. I can't imagine a clearer message of Do Not Want than to choose Trump instead of whatever you imagine people should want. Has it not occurred to you that this strategy of telling people that they should shut up, sit down, and let the elites do all their deciding for them, is not such a great strategy? Has it ever occurred to you that showing sincere empathy for the people you're supposedly trying to help might build more trust with them than constant vilification and disdain? "But Trump doesn't have a sincere bone in his body!" you say. "Trump is utterly incapable of empathy!" you say. And sure. You're right, of course. But what you comically, willfully, tragically, pathetically fail to understand is that the people who voted for Trump think you're no different from him. You've worked very hard to alienate half the country. Don't act so surprised that half the country treats you like an alien invasion. Well said.
	__________________ Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God. He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.

10th November 2016, 09:25 AM	#124
marplots Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 29,167	Originally Posted by Argumemnon You have no idea how utterly ridiculous your medical system looks to anybody outside the US. Calling it a "system" is a kind fiction. Try it this way instead: Take everything you know about Windows updates, bloatware, and Microsoft's aspirations to live in monopoly-ville and then add a few dimensions at right angles. Populate those dimensions with government, the educational system, entropy and technology. Give everyone a license to run their own little fiefdom and a battery-operated abacus to do it with. And then allow the environment and evolution to periodically inject crises while you spray money around like it's fresh sausage coming off a conveyor belt. That's closer.
	Last edited by marplots; 10th November 2016 at 09:30 AM.

10th November 2016, 11:53 AM	#126
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 14,812	Originally Posted by fuelair Hopefully they will turn on him, march on and destroy much of downtown DC (except the Library of Congress; the Smithsonian and the very new National Museum of African American History & Culture) and be killed by the military after they have mostly accomplished their goal re: Trump's lies to them. They richly deserve that!!!!!!! Are you actually wishing for the brutal death of half the country? And you're okay with that?
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

10th November 2016, 09:41 AM	#125
Elind Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: S.E. USA. Sometimes bible country Posts: 7,779	Originally Posted by theprestige They voted for him over the gal who didn't understand their concern and didn't even try to convince them that she would do a better job of addressing it. Maybe they voted for him not because they thought he'd actually fix it, but because they were convinced she would only make it worse. This is probably only a little bit about Trump's actual platform, and a lot about flipping a giant middle finger at Hillary the Progressive Statesman. I can't imagine a clearer message of Do Not Want than to choose Trump instead of whatever you imagine people should want. Has it not occurred to you that this strategy of telling people that they should shut up, sit down, and let the elites do all their deciding for them, is not such a great strategy? Has it ever occurred to you that showing sincere empathy for the people you're supposedly trying to help might build more trust with them than constant vilification and disdain? "But Trump doesn't have a sincere bone in his body!" you say. "Trump is utterly incapable of empathy!" you say. And sure. You're right, of course. But what you comically, willfully, tragically, pathetically fail to understand is that the people who voted for Trump think you're no different from him. You've worked very hard to alienate half the country. Don't act so surprised that half the country treats you like an alien invasion. I think you over analyse the issue. People voted for Trump because they were easily taken in, both by his impossible and even unconstitutional promises and also by his unprincipled lies about his opponents, including his fellow GOP candidates. What was said about him was mostly simply repeating his own words and since if that didn't work I doubt that Hillary stooping as low would have made any difference. As to your mention of "elites", have you noticed how this word has been popping up lately in ads and conservative commentary as well as multiple times in a real nasty conspiracy ad by the NRA just before the election? Elites is a code word for people who have earned their public status through hard work, ability and education and intelligence. It does not take much knowledge of history to know where that kind of social differentiation has been applied in the past in many nations by those seeking the support of the sector that has not been able to achieve the aforementioned goals.

10th November 2016, 12:02 PM	#127
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 14,812	Originally Posted by lionking Are predictions not allowed? Tell you what, if the Trump administration is all sweetness and light, come back and tell me how tasteless I have been. In the meantime I'm judging the man on his character and so-called policies. The US and the world will suffer, and I will keep on stating this. Tell me what do you think of the upcoming trade war with China and repudiation of greenhouse gas abatement? Good policies? I, along with countless others think no. What about you? No, I will not give this idiot any slack. Vitriol it is. I'm not seeing these as "predictions": Originally Posted by NoahFence He's a gifted salesman. He knows how to defraud people. Those are his skills. Uh, President of the United States? I think that person needs at least a little character? Originally Posted by NoahFence His supporters will applaud him for a job well done, oblivious to the fact that he did nothing in his xenophobic piece of ** administration that they elected him to do. Originally Posted by mumblethrax The man is a waking horror. The election served as a referendum on basic democratic values, and basic democratic values lost. Originally Posted by lionking Because it's deserved. There has never been a more ludicrous president than Trump. Are you really comparing him to Obama? Originally Posted by fuelair Maybe Trump will not be such a terrible president. Maybe ** won't stink anymore. Originally Posted by fuelair Maybe cancer will turn out to be good for us. Originally Posted by Spindrift The only way Trump could be a good president is if right after taking the oath he has a massive coronary and falls on Mike Pence snapping Pence's neck on the way down. I'll take Paul Ryan over those two. Originally Posted by fuelair Hopefully they will turn on him, march on and destroy much of downtown DC (except the Library of Congress; the Smithsonian and the very new National Museum of African American History & Culture) and be killed by the military after they have mostly accomplished their goal re: Trump's lies to them. They richly deserve that!!!!!!!
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

10th November 2016, 12:05 PM	#128
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 14,812	Originally Posted by wareyin Judging by the Facebook memes, the fact that a minority of voters voted for Trump does look like it was all about flipping a giant middle finger not just at Clinton, but at the Republican establishment as well. I've seen a lot of posts claiming that when the establishment, R and D both, don't like you, it means you are for the people. Indeed, letting people who know what they are doing make the decisions is a terrible strategy! The ignorance of those who are happy to watch the world burn is equal to the knowledge of those who can fix things. Of course, the rubes who think this are constantly spoon-fed this nonsense by the elites at FOX News (among others), but these elites are good because reasons. Golly, yeah, it sure wasn't people spreading bs memes about elites spreading "constant vilification and disdain" that made the people voting for Trump think elites are no better than Trump. Wow. Way to miss the core concept.
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

10th November 2016, 12:08 PM	#129
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 14,812	Originally Posted by NoahFence The doom and gloom predictions are based on what his stated policies are, not some twisted translation of them. These are based on what he's said. It seems a fair amount of people voted for him based on them being fully aware that he has no intention of putting forth what he campaigned on? Am I getting that right? In my opinion, yes - I think most people don't expect him to actually do the ridiculous things he claimed. But I also think that most people believe Hillary won't even try to do anything about the issues they care about. His ideas are stupid and unworkable, but at least he's thinking about it and giving consideration to their concerns, where Clinton (and most of her supporters) are busy just saying "Oh shut up, you're too stupid to think about stuff. Just let us betters do your thinking for you"
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

10th November 2016, 12:12 PM	#130
wareyin Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 8,347	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Wow. Way to miss the core concept. Perhaps you can explain what the core concept was, then? Do you disagree that a lot of those that voted for Trump were giving the middle finger not just to Clinton, but to "the establishment" whether D or R? (Remind me what Paul Ryan's favorability ratings are compared to Trump's, again?) Do you disagree that, to people intent on giving the finger to "the establishment", their ignorance is just as good as <sneering voice>those elites</sneering voice>? Do you disagree that rich, elitist guys like Sean Hannity have been telling people that 'it's those Dems who are the real elites, and they hate you'?
	Last edited by wareyin; 10th November 2016 at 12:14 PM.

10th November 2016, 12:16 PM	#131
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 14,812	Seriously, you guys are really missing the point here. Originally Posted by theprestige Has it not occurred to you that this strategy of telling people that they should shut up, sit down, and let the elites do all their deciding for them, is not such a great strategy? Has it ever occurred to you that showing sincere empathy for the people you're supposedly trying to help might build more trust with them than constant vilification and disdain? ... You've worked very hard to alienate half the country. Don't act so surprised that half the country treats you like an alien invasion. And your responses are... Originally Posted by Elind People voted for Trump because they were easily taken in... ...Elites is a code word for people who have earned their public status through hard work, ability and education and intelligence. Translation: Half the country is just dummies, and they shouldn't be allowed to think. They should let our side do all their thinking for them, because we're better than them. Originally Posted by wareyin The ignorance of those who are happy to watch the world burn Because again, half the country is just ignorant bumpkins whose opinions and concerns shouldn't count!
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

10th November 2016, 12:23 PM	#132
NoahFence Banned Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Patriot Nation Posts: 22,131	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat In my opinion, yes - I think most people don't expect him to actually do the ridiculous things he claimed. But I also think that most people believe Hillary won't even try to do anything about the issues they care about. His ideas are stupid and unworkable, but at least he's thinking about it and giving consideration to their concerns, where Clinton (and most of her supporters) are busy just saying "Oh shut up, you're too stupid to think about stuff. Just let us betters do your thinking for you" It's hard to imagine that they're not too stupid when they disregard basic facts.

10th November 2016, 12:26 PM	#133
NoahFence Banned Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Patriot Nation Posts: 22,131	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Because again, half the country is just ignorant bumpkins whose opinions and concerns shouldn't count! Yes they are ignorant bumpkins whose ignorant, fact free opinions shouldn't count. Yes, they are ignorant bumpkins when their concerns are unfounded and in some cases, already addressed! Afraid the government is coming for their guns. Well, I guess not seeing as though they still have them. Morons want so badly for things to be the way they want it to be, they forget to double check if they're not already the way they want it to be.

10th November 2016, 12:27 PM	#134
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 14,812	Originally Posted by wareyin Perhaps you can explain what the core concept was, then? Do you disagree that a lot of those that voted for Trump were giving the middle finger not just to Clinton, but to "the establishment" whether D or R? (Remind me what Paul Ryan's favorability ratings are compared to Trump's, again?) Do you disagree that, to people intent on giving the finger to "the establishment", their ignorance is just as good as <sneering voice>those elites</sneering voice>? Do you disagree that rich, elitist guys like Sean Hannity have been telling people that 'it's those Dems who are the real elites, and they hate you'? Oh I agree that they were tired of career politicians who are working for their own ends and pretending it's all for the good of "the people" while simultaneously not bothering to listen to the people. Many people, myself included, are sick to death of the establishment. But I think that those who were most strongly against the establishment voted 3rd party. I also think that your characterization of half the country as "ignorant", the constant disdain toward them, the constant derision and the repeated subtext that they're too stupid to be given consideration, that their concerns don't matter because they aren't as good as you, that their worries aren't worthy of consideration and they should just let your side do all their thinking for them, the implicit and implacable message that your side knows what's best for them - more so than they know about themselves... gets heard loud and clear and is not appreciated. Throughout this campaign, Clinton has treated half the country with condescension. She has appealed to arrogance among her constituents, and has effectively messaged that "those other people" are deplorable, ignorable, and not important. And I think that last bit there - that's the core concept that you're missing. When you treat people as if they don't matter to you and aren't worthy of your consideration, you shouldn't be surprised when they reject you.
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

10th November 2016, 12:27 PM	#135
trustbutverify Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,885	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat In my opinion, yes - I think most people don't expect him to actually do the ridiculous things he claimed. But I also think that most people believe Hillary won't even try to do anything about the issues they care about. His ideas are stupid and unworkable, but at least he's thinking about it and giving consideration to their concerns, where Clinton (and most of her supporters) are busy just saying "Oh shut up, you're too stupid to think about stuff. Just let us betters do your thinking for you" I agree with most of this comment, but I've seen no evidence for the highlighted. His "rallies" seemed to contradict it.
	__________________ "To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage

10th November 2016, 12:29 PM	#136
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 14,812	Originally Posted by trustbutverify I agree with most of this comment, but I've seen no evidence for the highlighted. His "rallies" seemed to contradict it. I think you err by assuming that they are taking him literally. You mistake the enthusiasm for someone listening to and giving thought to their concerns with acceptance of a foolish plan. Look - I'm quite certain there are some people who literally want to build a wall. But they aren't a majority, they're a very small minority. And they certainly aren't half the country. Maybe the democrats would have treated independents and conservatives with respect and consideration, rather than treating half the nation as if they are foolish children who need someone "better" to take care of them.
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me. Last edited by Emily's Cat; 10th November 2016 at 12:31 PM.

10th November 2016, 12:30 PM	#137
NoahFence Banned Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Patriot Nation Posts: 22,131	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat I think you err by assuming that they are taking him literally. You mistake the enthusiasm for someone listening to and giving thought to their concerns with acceptance of a foolish plan. Enthusiasm = "Lock her up!! Lock her up!! Lock her up!!"

10th November 2016, 12:32 PM	#138
trustbutverify Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,885	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat I think you err by assuming that they are taking him literally. You mistake the enthusiasm for someone listening to and giving thought to their concerns with acceptance of a foolish plan. Maybe. Or maybe you're whistling in the dark. Some of them kicked a kid in a wheel chair for not being "enthusiastic" enough.
	__________________ "To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage Last edited by trustbutverify; 10th November 2016 at 12:34 PM.

10th November 2016, 12:33 PM	#139
trustbutverify Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,885	Originally Posted by NoahFence Enthusiasm = "Lock her up!! Lock her up!! Lock her up!!" Build that wall!!!
	__________________ "To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage

10th November 2016, 12:34 PM	#140
mikado Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,932	Originally Posted by baron I think he'll surprise me, but only because my expectations are so low he can't help but exceed them. Yet another reason to be thankful I live in the UK. snap....but i wish i lived in the u.k.
mikado Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,932	__________________ member formally known as Renmarkable.

10th November 2016, 12:39 PM	#141
wareyin Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 8,347	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Oh I agree that they were tired of career politicians who are working for their own ends and pretending it's all for the good of "the people" while simultaneously not bothering to listen to the people. Many people, myself included, are sick to death of the establishment. But I think that those who were most strongly against the establishment voted 3rd party. Third party got less than 4% of the vote, so I think that's wrong. Trump portrayed himself as the anti-establishment candidate, what with all his "drain the swamp" rhetoric, and people took him at his word. Originally Posted by Emily's Cat I also think that your characterization of half the country as "ignorant", the constant disdain toward them, the constant derision and the repeated subtext that they're too stupid to be given consideration, that their concerns don't matter because they aren't as good as you, that their worries aren't worthy of consideration and they should just let your side do all their thinking for them, the implicit and implacable message that your side knows what's best for them - more so than they know about themselves... gets heard loud and clear and is not appreciated. Throughout this campaign, Clinton has treated half the country with condescension. She has appealed to arrogance among her constituents, and has effectively messaged that "those other people" are deplorable, ignorable, and not important. And I think that last bit there - that's the core concept that you're missing. When you treat people as if they don't matter to you and aren't worthy of your consideration, you shouldn't be surprised when they reject you. A bit of projection, there? Because I can admit that I'm ignorant of a lot of things, and I have absolutely no problem letting those who know what they are doing handle things when I don't. You seem to be demanding that a bunch of people who have no idea what they are doing, nor want to learn, jump in and handle those things. I think that's a very bad idea. And that's the core concept you are missing.

10th November 2016, 12:53 PM	#142
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 91,434	Originally Posted by NoahFence Yes they are ignorant bumpkins whose ignorant, fact free opinions shouldn't count. Yes, they are ignorant bumpkins when their concerns are unfounded and in some cases, already addressed! Good news, though: they can become informed and fact-filled, and then their opinions will count! All it takes is a little effort and some rationality.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

10th November 2016, 01:04 PM	#143
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,506	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat I think you err by assuming that they are taking him literally. You mistake the enthusiasm for someone listening to and giving thought to their concerns with acceptance of a foolish plan. Look - I'm quite certain there are some people who literally want to build a wall. But they aren't a majority, they're a very small minority. And they certainly aren't half the country. Maybe the democrats would have treated independents and conservatives with respect and consideration, rather than treating half the nation as if they are foolish children who need someone "better" to take care of them. Tell me, what would be the appropriate degree of respect I should give to somebody who tells me 'faggots shouldn't be able to get married, it's against God'? Am I allowed to disagree with them, or is it disrespectful? Do I have to say I find their opinion equally valid as my own even though they do not feel that way about my opinion? And of course my opinion about gay marriage, if implemented, affects me and not them, whereas their opinion if implemented affects me and not them. You are asking me to give opposing viewpoints everything they want without any concession to my viewpoints on a matter that infringes my civil rights and not theirs, on the basis of 'being respectful'.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

10th November 2016, 01:10 PM	#144
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,506	To put it another way, it doesn't work to say everybody's opinion is equally valid if one group's opinion is that the other groups' opinions aren't valid.
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.

10th November 2016, 01:10 PM	#145
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 91,434	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Tell me, what would be the appropriate degree of respect I should give to somebody who tells me 'faggots shouldn't be able to get married, it's against God'? Am I allowed to disagree with them, or is it disrespectful? Do I have to say I find their opinion equally valid as my own even though they do not feel that way about my opinion? And of course my opinion about gay marriage, if implemented, affects me and not them, whereas their opinion if implemented affects me and not them. I've always found it puzzling that some people are so adamant about making laws that doesn't affect them in any way, seemingly just to spite people they dislike.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

10th November 2016, 01:17 PM	#146
wareyin Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 8,347	Originally Posted by Argumemnon I've always found it puzzling that some people are so adamant about making laws that doesn't affect them in any way, seemingly just to spite people they dislike. All while claiming that it's really those other people who spite them. Such as with gay marriage, the "gay agenda", etc.

10th November 2016, 01:21 PM	#147
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,461	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat I think you err by assuming that they are taking him literally. You mistake the enthusiasm for someone listening to and giving thought to their concerns with acceptance of a foolish plan. Look - I'm quite certain there are some people who literally want to build a wall. But they aren't a majority, they're a very small minority. And they certainly aren't half the country. Maybe the democrats would have treated independents and conservatives with respect and consideration, rather than treating half the nation as if they are foolish children who need someone "better" to take care of them. Where is your poll data that shows that the people chanting "Build the Wall" at trump events don't actually expect him to build the wall? So you assume everything he said was a lie why vote for someone when you have no idea what his actual positions are because everything he says is a lie?
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

10th November 2016, 01:21 PM	#148
NoahFence Banned Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Patriot Nation Posts: 22,131	Originally Posted by Argumemnon Good news, though: they can become informed and fact-filled, and then their opinions will count! All it takes is a little effort and some rationality. If they chose that we wouldn't be in this mess.

10th November 2016, 01:22 PM	#149
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 14,674	If you fear gays, you are obviously not very certain of your own sexual orientation...
	__________________ So what are you going to do about it, huh? What would an intellectual do? What would Plato do?

10th November 2016, 01:23 PM	#150
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 50,461	Originally Posted by NoahFence Enthusiasm = "Lock her up!! Lock her up!! Lock her up!!" As chanted on wall street yesterday. http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/09/inve...llary-clinton/ But clearly they are too educated to believe what trump has said about that, no one seriously believes that either.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

10th November 2016, 04:29 PM	#151
trustbutverify Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,885	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza If you fear gays, you are obviously not very certain of your own sexual orientation... Guess that explains why I've never feared gays.
	__________________ "To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage

10th November 2016, 04:34 PM	#152
trustbutverify Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,885	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle As chanted on wall street yesterday. http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/09/inve...llary-clinton/ But clearly they are too educated to believe what trump has said about that, no one seriously believes that either. I thought the parasitic speculators, feeding off the hard work of salt-of-the-Earth America, were HRC's bread and butter.
	__________________ "To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage

10th November 2016, 04:45 PM	#153
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a post-fact world Posts: 91,434	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza If you fear gays, you are obviously not very certain of your own sexual orientation... That's a strange thing to say. For a lot of homophobes, it's simply that they have no clue what gay people are. They think they're choosing perversion of god's natural order and that they will corrupt others into doing so as well.
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

10th November 2016, 05:30 PM	#154
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 38,527	Originally Posted by Crossbow I am sure that the Trump Administration will be very good for Donald J. Trump, Yeah, that's his MO. Quote: and I am also sure that Donald J. Trump will be very bad for the USA. And I am sure you'll never win Randi's prize. I have no idea if he'll be good, bad, or something in between. Any success hinges for a cabinet and if he, like every other president before him, learns on the job ... or not. The "not" has some serious down side. I am trending toward the "not good." Why? I don't believe that anyone with the talent required would want to work with him as a cabinet officer. He doesn't listen. That leaves the checks and balances protection vis a vis Congres- half of "his" party can't tolerate him. With the cat herding exercise that is any attempt at leadership in Congress, I am not sanguine with the prospects. (Last I heard it was better than 50-50 odds that Ryan loses the Speakership, but it's a fluid situation, and my source is out of the country at the moment). The magic 8 ball would not even entertain the question. It's a crap shoot ... and I guess we get to live out that old Chinese proverb/curse that goes like this May you live in interesting times. Things are about to get interesting.
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

10th November 2016, 05:49 PM	#155
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sacramento Posts: 50,334	Quote: I am trending toward the "not good." Why? I don't believe that anyone with the talent required would want to work with him as a cabinet officer. He doesn't listen. It's worse:It is somebody who does not listen who thinks he knows it all.
	__________________ Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. Last edited by dudalb; 10th November 2016 at 05:57 PM.