Maybe Trump will not be such a terrible president. - Page 8

trustbutverify · 12th November 2016, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Use his system how, exactly? Go into the match complaining that it's rigged and that it's not your fault if lose? And then going on to play well and win fairly?

Before playing announce that the results only count if I win. If I lose, it was rigged.

thaiboxerken · 12th November 2016, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle

The people apparently felt otherwise.

Not the majority of voters.

Spindrift · 13th November 2016, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by luchog

And it shows a profound disregard for the real reason that Trump won the election.

Trump won because he ran at a time when disgust with establishment politics was at an all-time high; and he was savvy enough to tap into that disgust, and appeal to the lowest-common-denominator attitude of much of the uneducated parts of the country.

It wasn't a matter of savvy, it was a matter of timing. Trump's message has always been the same but in 2016 it finally resonated with a large number of people.

trustbutverify · 13th November 2016, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Spindrift

It wasn't a matter of savvy, it was a matter of timing. Trump's message has always been the same but in 2016 it finally resonated with a large number of people.

Yes and no. He's changed positions many times through the years and decades according to where he feels power lies at any given time.

Captain_Swoop · 13th November 2016, 09:33 AM

I think he's crapping himself.
He never actually wanted to be president but when he was in the race his temperament snd ego wouldn't let him back down.

alfaniner · 13th November 2016, 10:00 AM

I'm reminded of the final scene in 1972's The Candidate with Robert Redford. (He wins after not really being expected to.)

"What the hell do we do now?"

Stacko · 13th November 2016, 10:34 AM

A top aide to the President-elect threatens legal action against a member of the opposition party for criticizing him.

Kellyanne Conway says on @FoxNewsSunday Harry Reid's comments are "beyond the pale," advises him to be careful in "legal sense"

It's going to be weird having the President be a vexatious litigant.

Stacko · 13th November 2016, 10:42 AM

Transition process in chaos because Trump refused to read binders of research his team prepared. Get used to this.

trustbutverify · 13th November 2016, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop

I think he's crapping himself.
He never actually wanted to be president but when he was in the race his temperament snd ego wouldn't let him back down.

I thought his plan was to lose in as close an election as possible, while building a wildly passionate national political base, claim the (((elites))) stole the presidency to keep him from making America great again, start a TV network, and online newspaper similar to the Huff Post, all orbiting his image as the (real president) populist hero battling the evil elites on behalf of the disenfranchised white working man. And, of course, getting to work on making the Trump brand a major commercial real estate dynamo all across Russia--launching him into the upper reaches of the Forbes 400... his most cherished ambition.

But who knows, it's just speculation.

Minoosh · 13th November 2016, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Stacko

Transition process in chaos because Trump refused to read binders of research his team prepared. Get used to this.

If there were binders of women maybe he'd be more interested.

I am hesitant to take these transition-team-in-shambles at face value - partly because I want to believe them. It fits with my expectation, because I doubt if he will be successful at team building. His campaign managers kept changing or morphing into new arrangements and I believe Trump's attitude is that if someone doesn't work out he can always fire them and hire someone new, and maybe that worked when all Trump had to do was show up at venues and give the stump speech.

This quote confused me:

Quote:

"Anybody seeing today's news about the appointment of Vice President-elect Mike Pence to run the Presidential Transition Team realizes that President-elect Donald J. Trump is serious about changing Washington whether the town likes it or not."

How does appointing a 6-term congressman say anything about changing Washington? And what does he mean when he says "insider bickering"? Jason Miller himself has been a Washington insider for 16 years. I had to look him up on Ballotpedia to make sure he wasn't the MMA fighter.

Minoosh · 13th November 2016, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Stacko

A top aide to the President-elect threatens legal action against a member of the opposition party for criticizing him.

Since Donald himself said "it's true" when Howard Stern called him a sexual predator, it's odd that Kellyanne thinks Reid's comments are "beyond the pale."

ETA: I thought maybe the election would end my addiction to threads like these but apparently not. I'm more interested than ever in hearing the things he says off the cuff. I hope his handlers don't take the Tweetie away for good.

Stacko · 13th November 2016, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Minoosh

Since Donald himself said "it's true" when Howard Stern called him a sexual predator, it's odd that Kellyanne thinks Reid's comments are "beyond the pale."

ETA: I thought maybe the election would end my addiction to threads like these but apparently not. I'm more interested than ever in hearing the things he says off the cuff. I hope his handlers don't take the Tweetie away for good.

He's been President-elect for five days and they're already threatening to sue critics.

Minoosh · 13th November 2016, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Stacko

He's been President-elect for five days and they're already threatening to sue critics.

The libel bar is pretty high. Someone has to know they are spreading lies, and doing so maliciously and with reckless disregard for the truth.

Reid just agreed with what Donald called a fair claim, coming from Howard Stern.

Trump's not going to sue Reid.

alfaniner · 13th November 2016, 12:29 PM

Meet the new boss.
Same as old boss.

phiwum · 13th November 2016, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

Now, that's an interesting way to choose leadership. I used to wonder why it seemed so gosh darn easy for professionals to get large numbers of people to act against their own self interest, but things are getting clearer now.

I think she's right, though. A number of people have bought the idea of Clinton as a cartoon supervillain and view anyone else, even Trump, as better.

I know a number of conservative Christians who claim that God chose Trump, and will turn him into something better, just like Saul's conversion.

It's bloody frustrating that people vote like that, but I think Emily's Cat is right on this point. Where we differ, I think, is that I don't believe such choices ought to be defended. They are the stuff of ignorance, pure and simple, a deluded portion of the populace who seem overly willing to embrace whatever nonsense supports their preconceptions.

That said, many folks are saying that the Democrats have failed to take seriously (or at least convey their interest in) the concerns of large portions of the working class. I don't think that's obviously false.

ChrisBFRPKY · 13th November 2016, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by luchog

They're just happy to support or at least tolerate sexist racist bigots. Oh, and elect them to public office. Because electing sexist racist bigots is totally not the same thing as being sexist racist bigots.

People who refuse to stand up against evil are just as responsible for its victory.

Kinda odd your charge of being a sexist against Trump, the guy who actually had a woman in charge of his campaign......the guy who appoints women to be in charge of completing entire projects......the guy that pays his female employees better than Clinton paid hers.........odd.

Racist Bigot? The guy that got 3% more of the Black vote than Romney received in 2012....the guy that wants to rebuild the inner city to make America safe again for minorities......the guy that denied the support of the KKK.......

Your assessment of the situation does not seem to jive with the facts.......
Chris B.

Stacko · 13th November 2016, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by phiwum

That said, many folks are saying that the Democrats have failed to take seriously (or at least convey their interest in) the concerns of large portions of the working class. I don't think that's obviously false.

Why was there such a stark racial divide between white working class voters and minority working class voters in whom they voted for then?

phiwum · 13th November 2016, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Stacko

Why was there such a stark racial divide between white working class voters and minority working class voters in whom they voted for then?

Because minority working class voters have other issues that bother them as well, of course. For those other issues, Clinton appeared the obviously better candidate.

NOTE: I'm not trying to say Trump is a better candidate for the white working class, but only that he managed to convince them that this is so. Trump is undeniably the worst major candidate in modern history, if not the entire history of the United States. I'm merely saying that this is a common explanation for Trump's success and I can't say that it's obviously wrong.

wareyin · 13th November 2016, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Kinda odd your charge of being a sexist against Trump, the guy who actually had a woman in charge of his campaign...

Did he grab her by the pussy?

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

...the guy who appoints women to be in charge of completing entire projects...

Oh, as opposed to the actual woman who strove herself to be in charge?

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

...the guy that pays his female employees better than Clinton paid hers.........odd.

Wait, is there any evidence he actually paid them at all? I mean, we know he stiffed his pollster, as well as thousands of contractors and employees.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Racist Bigot? The guy that got 3% more of the Black vote than Romney received in 2012..

I'm not sure that having 8% of one demographic of voters proves one isn't racist against that demographic. I am sure that it's nothing to brag about, and by the way, Romney got 6%, for a difference of 2%. Since we know that black voters overall voted less this election, can we really say Trump got more actual black people to vote for him? For instance, 8% of 100 is less than 6% of 200.

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

..the guy that wants to rebuild the inner city to make America safe again for minorities...

Cite?

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

...the guy that denied the support of the KKK.......

Which time? I mean, lots of racist organizations came out in support for Trump. You do realize, I hope, that when all the racists are supporting a person because of that person's statements about races and cultures, that is strong evidence that said statements are racist, right?

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Your assessment of the situation does not seem to jive with the facts.......
Chris B.

No, I think luchog was far more accurate.

Stacko · 13th November 2016, 02:46 PM

Because this will some how be glossed over, a racist, anti-Semite was just named chief strategist by the President-elect. But hey, a conventional conservative in Reince Priebus is chief of staff so we can exhale because a white nationalist only gets second most influential job in White House.

luchog · 13th November 2016, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Seriously, I think it's just plain lazy and small-minded to assume that your opponents are all ignorant, stupid, and bigoted. Sure it makes you feel better, but it's not going to help you win in the future. It does nothing except ensure that you will continue to be met with a wall that impedes your progress.

Well, here's more evidence that you're wrong.

Uptown Trump: It is a myth that he owes his support to disaffected blue-collar workers

The Mythology Of Trump’s ‘Working Class’ Support

Please Stop Saying Poor People Did This

Disaffected blue-collar workers are not the demographic primarily responsibility for Trump's win, middle-class and upper-middle-class educated white people are. It was the racist, sexist, GLBTQ-phobic, Islamophobic narrative that gave him the victory, not his economic policies, which were so vague as to be effectively non-existent.

NWO Sentryman · 13th November 2016, 02:53 PM

I wonder if the Vulcan Proverb of "Only Nixon could go to China" would play out in his administration.

Cl1mh4224rd · 13th November 2016, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY

Kinda odd your charge of being a sexist against Trump, the guy who actually had a woman in charge of his campaign......the guy who appoints women to be in charge of completing entire projects......the guy that pays his female employees better than Clinton paid hers.........odd.

Not really. It's a funny thing about racism and sexism that a person suffering from either can still be impressed with individuals of the group for which they harbor disdain.

I knew a man who believes Mexicans are lazy and generally worthless, to the point that he's openly (in front of me, but in the privacy of his own home) expressed violent (if ridiculous) fantasies of mass harm and even death directed at Mexico.

However, he's also talked glowingly about a Mexican doctor he and his wife were seated with at a wedding they attended.

His positive statements about this particular individual do not make him any less of a racist.

ETA: This man's son likes Bill Cosby as a comedian, but felt it necessary to comment about the number of mixed-race couples in season 1 of Heroes.

Hlafordlaes · 13th November 2016, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by phiwum

I know a number of conservative Christians who claim that God chose Trump, and will turn him into something better, just like Saul's conversion.

It's bloody frustrating that people vote like that, but I think Emily's Cat is right on this point. Where we differ, I think, is that I don't believe such choices ought to be defended. They are the stuff of ignorance, pure and simple, a deluded portion of the populace who seem overly willing to embrace whatever nonsense supports their preconceptions.

There's no free lunch. The US took a major hit, below the water line, to its soft power. You don't feel it yet. The worst part is the ripple effect elsewhere, and if too many places experience the same loss of sanity, suddenly we have a positive feedback loop leading to some very nasty outcomes. Meaning, it was liberal democracy itself that has now taken a very important, very public hit.

Poland, Hungary and Slovenia are already talking funny. Austria is on the verge, France might follow not long thereafter, Holland as well... Spain will blow with any wind that makes people feel they are cozying up to the next winner. Scandinavia has issues. Right now, Germany is becoming the last hope, and would not last long alone at all. What Europe would it then be defending? More likely, a large reversal of directions. Better the Deutschmark, and refugees are welcome to leave.

Frankly, Trump could almost disappear off the news, it really doesn't matter what happens now, that damage takes years to undo. Unless he goes back to the pitchfork ranting, of course, then all bets are off.

Quote:

That said, many folks are saying that the Democrats have failed to take seriously (or at least convey their interest in) the concerns of large portions of the working class. I don't think that's obviously false.

What really has everyone so off balance everywhere seems to have a common theme, one which takes what would otherwise be intangible fears and irrational thoughts and gives them life in the form of vivid and nightmarish news casts. I'm not going to express that thought much more until I've explored it more.

The alternative is the obvious non-answer to the global labor glut, a real problem everywhere that has nothing to do with nightmares, and everything to do with finding a new approach not only to the problem, but to expressing it in ways people get and believe. People's concerns haven't been met because, surprise, welcome to a new economy, yuuuge deals notwithstanding.

Meanwhile, for me, now debating the wisdom of a push for EU rearmament. Need a few election results first anyway, but to have to think in such terms... Putin is a mad genius, OMG...

theprestige · 13th November 2016, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

Before playing announce that the results only count if I win. If I lose, it was rigged.

Before playing announce that the results only count if I win. ~~If I lose, it was rigged~~ Then I win.

FTFY.

fuelair · 13th November 2016, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by DennyT

He has empowered every obnoxious bully in the country. and now those cowardly bullies now have guns.

So do many of us who aren't.

fuelair · 13th November 2016, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Wow. If someone had said it wouldn't bother them if Obama got assassinated, would you have considered that acceptable, regardless of how much they disliked the guy?

Yes, but Trump is not Obama. Obama is an honorable and intelligent man, Trump is something one scrapes off one's shoe in disgust. As are his followers.

fuelair · 13th November 2016, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Are you actually wishing for the brutal death of half the country? And you're okay with that?

Not half the country, just the one's motivated enough to come after Trump and his republicker backside boys when they pay no more attention to them than anyone else did - and they will never learn that people have moved forward from their backward ways and ideas so at least they would be out of their misery and the misery they caused the rest of us on Tuesday. I am not in a forgiving or let's just all get along mood right now.

Also, note that is just if they do as I suspect a reasonable but not gigantic number of them will if Trumpf does as most of we on the good side suspect he will - nothing functional for them and little for anyone not a republicker crony.

fuelair · 13th November 2016, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Argumemnon

I've always found it puzzling that some people are so adamant about making laws that doesn't affect them in any way, seemingly just to spite people they dislike.

Not puzzling at all, they are simply ********.

thaiboxerken · 13th November 2016, 06:47 PM

A white supremacist is going to be a top advisor in the Trump cabinet. Sad

ServiceSoon · 13th November 2016, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Stacko

Because this will some how be glossed over, a racist, anti-Semite was just named chief strategist by the President-elect. But hey, a conventional conservative in Reince Priebus is chief of staff so we can exhale because a white nationalist only gets second most influential job in White House.

Meanwhile the Prime Minister of Israel congratulates Trump on his election victory.

Stacko · 13th November 2016, 07:34 PM

If you casually watched The West Wing, you know more about how the US government functions, duties and staffing responsibilities than the incoming administration.

Quote:

During their private White House meeting on Thursday, Mr. Obama walked his successor through the duties of running the country, and Mr. Trump seemed surprised by the scope, said people familiar with the meeting. Trump aides were described by those people as unaware that the entire presidential staff working in the West Wing had to be replaced at the end of Mr. Obama’s term.

After meeting with Mr. Trump, the only person to be elected president without having held a government or military position, Mr. Obama realized the Republican needs more guidance. He plans to spend more time with his successor than presidents typically do, people familiar with the matter said.

This ignorance is breathtaking.

lionking · 13th November 2016, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Stacko

If you casually watched The West Wing, you know more about how the US government functions, duties and staffing responsibilities than the incoming administration.

This ignorance is breathtaking.

As is Obama's class. I think very few would be as magnanimous with an idiot like Trump.

Cl1mh4224rd · 13th November 2016, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

As is Obama's class. I think very few would be as magnanimous with an idiot like Trump.

That's a double-edged sword. I'm sure if Trump ***** things up bad enough, folks on the right will be all too eager to blame Obama's guidance and not Trump's crippling ADD.

TragicMonkey · 13th November 2016, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by lionking

As is Obama's class. I think very few would be as magnanimous with an idiot like Trump.

If I were Obama I'd be tempted to slip laxatives into Trump's coffee. Or PCP. Or both!

trustbutverify · 13th November 2016, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

Before playing announce that the results only count if I win. ~~If I lose, it was rigged~~ Then I win.

FTFY.

Obviously, the subject doesn't know the final result when he employs the Trump maneuver. My original comment is accurate, heads he wins, tails you lose. The fact that the coin just happened to come up heads in this case has no retroactive affect on the plainly stated precondition that, if the coin does come up tails, it shouldn't count. This shouldn't even be controversial.

Juniversal · 14th November 2016, 02:33 AM

Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd

Not really. It's a funny thing about racism and sexism that a person suffering from either can still be impressed with individuals of the group for which they harbor disdain.

I knew a man who believes Mexicans are lazy and generally worthless, to the point that he's openly (in front of me, but in the privacy of his own home) expressed violent (if ridiculous) fantasies of mass harm and even death directed at Mexico.

However, he's also talked glowingly about a Mexican doctor he and his wife were seated with at a wedding they attended.

His positive statements about this particular individual do not make him any less of a racist.

ETA: This man's son likes Bill Cosby as a comedian, but felt it necessary to comment about the number of mixed-race couples in season 1 of Heroes.

Donald Sterling. Nuff said...

commandlinegamer · 14th November 2016, 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

If I were Obama I'd be tempted to slip laxatives into Trump's coffee. Or PCP. Or both!

An enjoyable side-effect of this whole sorry affair is the explosion in Obama-Biden memes, eg:

Obama: Did you replace all the toiletries with travel size bottles?
Biden: He's got tiny hands Barack, I want him to feel welcome here.

phiwum · 14th November 2016, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

Obviously, the subject doesn't know the final result when he employs the Trump maneuver. My original comment is accurate, heads he wins, tails you lose. The fact that the coin just happened to come up heads in this case has no retroactive affect on the plainly stated precondition that, if the coin does come up tails, it shouldn't count. This shouldn't even be controversial.

Well said.

Spindrift · 14th November 2016, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by Stacko

If you casually watched The West Wing, you know more about how the US government functions, duties and staffing responsibilities than the incoming administration.

This ignorance is breathtaking.

They aren't the only ones ignorant about that. Before the election I was talking to a Trump supporting co-worker about the difficulty of a true outsider coming into Washington and getting things done. He said, that "the White House staff really runs things, so Trump isn't going to have to learn much, they already know how things work." He was very surprised when I told him that except for the people responsible for the building itself, the White House staff (i.e. West Wing staff) doesn't carry over. He didn't believe me and said, "that's not how it works, everyone knows that the bureaucrats run everything."

12th November 2016, 11:43 PM	#281
trustbutverify Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,887	Originally Posted by theprestige Use his system how, exactly? Go into the match complaining that it's rigged and that it's not your fault if lose? And then going on to play well and win fairly? Before playing announce that the results only count if I win. If I lose, it was rigged.
	__________________ "To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage

12th November 2016, 11:51 PM	#282
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 31,711	Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle The people apparently felt otherwise. Not the majority of voters.
	__________________ 1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.

13th November 2016, 09:16 AM	#283
Spindrift Time Person of the Year, 2006 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Right here! Posts: 19,246	Originally Posted by luchog And it shows a profound disregard for the real reason that Trump won the election. Trump won because he ran at a time when disgust with establishment politics was at an all-time high; and he was savvy enough to tap into that disgust, and appeal to the lowest-common-denominator attitude of much of the uneducated parts of the country. It wasn't a matter of savvy, it was a matter of timing. Trump's message has always been the same but in 2016 it finally resonated with a large number of people.
	__________________ I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black. Enjoy every sandwich. - Warren Zevon

13th November 2016, 09:29 AM	#284
trustbutverify Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,887	Originally Posted by Spindrift It wasn't a matter of savvy, it was a matter of timing. Trump's message has always been the same but in 2016 it finally resonated with a large number of people. Yes and no. He's changed positions many times through the years and decades according to where he feels power lies at any given time.
	__________________ "To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage

13th November 2016, 10:34 AM	#287
Stacko Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 10,837	A top aide to the President-elect threatens legal action against a member of the opposition party for criticizing him. Kellyanne Conway says on @FoxNewsSunday Harry Reid's comments are "beyond the pale," advises him to be careful in "legal sense" It's going to be weird having the President be a vexatious litigant.

13th November 2016, 09:33 AM	#285
Captain_Swoop Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 31,912	I think he's crapping himself. He never actually wanted to be president but when he was in the race his temperament snd ego wouldn't let him back down.

13th November 2016, 10:00 AM	#286
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sorth Dakonsin Posts: 24,890	I'm reminded of the final scene in 1972's The Candidate with Robert Redford. (He wins after not really being expected to.) "What the hell do we do now?"

13th November 2016, 10:42 AM	#288
Stacko Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 10,837	Transition process in chaos because Trump refused to read binders of research his team prepared. Get used to this.

13th November 2016, 11:02 AM	#289
trustbutverify Philosopher Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 8,887	Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop I think he's crapping himself. He never actually wanted to be president but when he was in the race his temperament snd ego wouldn't let him back down. I thought his plan was to lose in as close an election as possible, while building a wildly passionate national political base, claim the (((elites))) stole the presidency to keep him from making America great again, start a TV network, and online newspaper similar to the Huff Post, all orbiting his image as the (real president) populist hero battling the evil elites on behalf of the disenfranchised white working man. And, of course, getting to work on making the Trump brand a major commercial real estate dynamo all across Russia--launching him into the upper reaches of the Forbes 400... his most cherished ambition. But who knows, it's just speculation.
	__________________ "To me, Hitler is the greatest man who ever lived. He truly is without fault, so simple and at the same time possessed of masculine strength" -Leni Riefenstahl Wollen owns the stage Last edited by trustbutverify; 13th November 2016 at 11:04 AM.

13th November 2016, 12:03 PM	#290
Minoosh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 12,239	Originally Posted by Stacko Transition process in chaos because Trump refused to read binders of research his team prepared. Get used to this. If there were binders of women maybe he'd be more interested. I am hesitant to take these transition-team-in-shambles at face value - partly because I want to believe them. It fits with my expectation, because I doubt if he will be successful at team building. His campaign managers kept changing or morphing into new arrangements and I believe Trump's attitude is that if someone doesn't work out he can always fire them and hire someone new, and maybe that worked when all Trump had to do was show up at venues and give the stump speech. This quote confused me: Quote: "Anybody seeing today's news about the appointment of Vice President-elect Mike Pence to run the Presidential Transition Team realizes that President-elect Donald J. Trump is serious about changing Washington whether the town likes it or not." How does appointing a 6-term congressman say anything about changing Washington? And what does he mean when he says "insider bickering"? Jason Miller himself has been a Washington insider for 16 years. I had to look him up on Ballotpedia to make sure he wasn't the MMA fighter.

13th November 2016, 12:06 PM	#291
Minoosh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 12,239	Originally Posted by Stacko A top aide to the President-elect threatens legal action against a member of the opposition party for criticizing him. Since Donald himself said "it's true" when Howard Stern called him a sexual predator, it's odd that Kellyanne thinks Reid's comments are "beyond the pale." ETA: I thought maybe the election would end my addiction to threads like these but apparently not. I'm more interested than ever in hearing the things he says off the cuff. I hope his handlers don't take the Tweetie away for good.
	Last edited by Minoosh; 13th November 2016 at 12:11 PM.

13th November 2016, 12:17 PM	#292
Stacko Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 10,837	Originally Posted by Minoosh Since Donald himself said "it's true" when Howard Stern called him a sexual predator, it's odd that Kellyanne thinks Reid's comments are "beyond the pale." ETA: I thought maybe the election would end my addiction to threads like these but apparently not. I'm more interested than ever in hearing the things he says off the cuff. I hope his handlers don't take the Tweetie away for good. He's been President-elect for five days and they're already threatening to sue critics.

13th November 2016, 12:25 PM	#293
Minoosh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 12,239	Originally Posted by Stacko He's been President-elect for five days and they're already threatening to sue critics. The libel bar is pretty high. Someone has to know they are spreading lies, and doing so maliciously and with reckless disregard for the truth. Reid just agreed with what Donald called a fair claim, coming from Howard Stern. Trump's not going to sue Reid.

13th November 2016, 12:29 PM	#294
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sorth Dakonsin Posts: 24,890	Meet the new boss. Same as old boss.

13th November 2016, 12:50 PM	#295
phiwum Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 12,719	Originally Posted by trustbutverify Now, that's an interesting way to choose leadership. I used to wonder why it seemed so gosh darn easy for professionals to get large numbers of people to act against their own self interest, but things are getting clearer now. I think she's right, though. A number of people have bought the idea of Clinton as a cartoon supervillain and view anyone else, even Trump, as better. I know a number of conservative Christians who claim that God chose Trump, and will turn him into something better, just like Saul's conversion. It's bloody frustrating that people vote like that, but I think Emily's Cat is right on this point. Where we differ, I think, is that I don't believe such choices ought to be defended. They are the stuff of ignorance, pure and simple, a deluded portion of the populace who seem overly willing to embrace whatever nonsense supports their preconceptions. That said, many folks are saying that the Democrats have failed to take seriously (or at least convey their interest in) the concerns of large portions of the working class. I don't think that's obviously false.
	Last edited by phiwum; 13th November 2016 at 12:53 PM.

13th November 2016, 01:12 PM	#296
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,666	Originally Posted by luchog They're just happy to support or at least tolerate sexist racist bigots. Oh, and elect them to public office. Because electing sexist racist bigots is totally not the same thing as being sexist racist bigots. People who refuse to stand up against evil are just as responsible for its victory. Kinda odd your charge of being a sexist against Trump, the guy who actually had a woman in charge of his campaign......the guy who appoints women to be in charge of completing entire projects......the guy that pays his female employees better than Clinton paid hers.........odd. Racist Bigot? The guy that got 3% more of the Black vote than Romney received in 2012....the guy that wants to rebuild the inner city to make America safe again for minorities......the guy that denied the support of the KKK....... Your assessment of the situation does not seem to jive with the facts....... Chris B.
ChrisBFRPKY Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,666

13th November 2016, 01:21 PM	#297
Stacko Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 10,837	Originally Posted by phiwum That said, many folks are saying that the Democrats have failed to take seriously (or at least convey their interest in) the concerns of large portions of the working class. I don't think that's obviously false. Why was there such a stark racial divide between white working class voters and minority working class voters in whom they voted for then?

13th November 2016, 01:29 PM	#298
phiwum Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 12,719	Originally Posted by Stacko Why was there such a stark racial divide between white working class voters and minority working class voters in whom they voted for then? Because minority working class voters have other issues that bother them as well, of course. For those other issues, Clinton appeared the obviously better candidate. NOTE: I'm not trying to say Trump is a better candidate for the white working class, but only that he managed to convince them that this is so. Trump is undeniably the worst major candidate in modern history, if not the entire history of the United States. I'm merely saying that this is a common explanation for Trump's success and I can't say that it's obviously wrong.

13th November 2016, 01:30 PM	#299
wareyin Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 8,350	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Kinda odd your charge of being a sexist against Trump, the guy who actually had a woman in charge of his campaign... Did he grab her by the pussy? Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY ...the guy who appoints women to be in charge of completing entire projects... Oh, as opposed to the actual woman who strove herself to be in charge? Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY ...the guy that pays his female employees better than Clinton paid hers.........odd. Wait, is there any evidence he actually paid them at all? I mean, we know he stiffed his pollster, as well as thousands of contractors and employees. Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Racist Bigot? The guy that got 3% more of the Black vote than Romney received in 2012.. I'm not sure that having 8% of one demographic of voters proves one isn't racist against that demographic. I am sure that it's nothing to brag about, and by the way, Romney got 6%, for a difference of 2%. Since we know that black voters overall voted less this election, can we really say Trump got more actual black people to vote for him? For instance, 8% of 100 is less than 6% of 200. Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY ..the guy that wants to rebuild the inner city to make America safe again for minorities... Cite? Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY ...the guy that denied the support of the KKK....... Which time? I mean, lots of racist organizations came out in support for Trump. You do realize, I hope, that when all the racists are supporting a person because of that person's statements about races and cultures, that is strong evidence that said statements are racist, right? Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Your assessment of the situation does not seem to jive with the facts....... Chris B. No, I think luchog was far more accurate.
	Last edited by wareyin; 13th November 2016 at 01:32 PM.

13th November 2016, 02:46 PM	#300
Stacko Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 10,837	Because this will some how be glossed over, a racist, anti-Semite was just named chief strategist by the President-elect. But hey, a conventional conservative in Reince Priebus is chief of staff so we can exhale because a white nationalist only gets second most influential job in White House.

13th November 2016, 02:51 PM	#301
luchog Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Emerald City Posts: 16,201	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Seriously, I think it's just plain lazy and small-minded to assume that your opponents are all ignorant, stupid, and bigoted. Sure it makes you feel better, but it's not going to help you win in the future. It does nothing except ensure that you will continue to be met with a wall that impedes your progress. Well, here's more evidence that you're wrong. Uptown Trump: It is a myth that he owes his support to disaffected blue-collar workers The Mythology Of Trump’s ‘Working Class’ Support Please Stop Saying Poor People Did This Disaffected blue-collar workers are not the demographic primarily responsibility for Trump's win, middle-class and upper-middle-class educated white people are. It was the racist, sexist, GLBTQ-phobic, Islamophobic narrative that gave him the victory, not his economic policies, which were so vague as to be effectively non-existent.
	__________________ When you say that fascists should only be defeated through debate, what you're really saying is that the marginalized and vulnerable should have to endlessly argue for their right to exist; and at no point should they ever be fully accepted, and the debate considered won.

13th November 2016, 02:53 PM	#302
NWO Sentryman Proud NWO Gatekeeper Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 6,994	I wonder if the Vulcan Proverb of "Only Nixon could go to China" would play out in his administration.
	__________________ If I now say "dominoes", you won't think "pizza". Will you? - FireGarden on the Middle East

13th November 2016, 03:24 PM	#303
Cl1mh4224rd Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 9,778	Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY Kinda odd your charge of being a sexist against Trump, the guy who actually had a woman in charge of his campaign......the guy who appoints women to be in charge of completing entire projects......the guy that pays his female employees better than Clinton paid hers.........odd. Not really. It's a funny thing about racism and sexism that a person suffering from either can still be impressed with individuals of the group for which they harbor disdain. I knew a man who believes Mexicans are lazy and generally worthless, to the point that he's openly (in front of me, but in the privacy of his own home) expressed violent (if ridiculous) fantasies of mass harm and even death directed at Mexico. However, he's also talked glowingly about a Mexican doctor he and his wife were seated with at a wedding they attended. His positive statements about this particular individual do not make him any less of a racist. ETA: This man's son likes Bill Cosby as a comedian, but felt it necessary to comment about the number of mixed-race couples in season 1 of Heroes.
Cl1mh4224rd Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 9,778	Last edited by Cl1mh4224rd; 13th November 2016 at 03:30 PM.

13th November 2016, 04:07 PM	#304
Hlafordlaes Disorder of Kilopi Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: State of Flux Posts: 14,669	Originally Posted by phiwum I know a number of conservative Christians who claim that God chose Trump, and will turn him into something better, just like Saul's conversion. It's bloody frustrating that people vote like that, but I think Emily's Cat is right on this point. Where we differ, I think, is that I don't believe such choices ought to be defended. They are the stuff of ignorance, pure and simple, a deluded portion of the populace who seem overly willing to embrace whatever nonsense supports their preconceptions. There's no free lunch. The US took a major hit, below the water line, to its soft power. You don't feel it yet. The worst part is the ripple effect elsewhere, and if too many places experience the same loss of sanity, suddenly we have a positive feedback loop leading to some very nasty outcomes. Meaning, it was liberal democracy itself that has now taken a very important, very public hit. Poland, Hungary and Slovenia are already talking funny. Austria is on the verge, France might follow not long thereafter, Holland as well... Spain will blow with any wind that makes people feel they are cozying up to the next winner. Scandinavia has issues. Right now, Germany is becoming the last hope, and would not last long alone at all. What Europe would it then be defending? More likely, a large reversal of directions. Better the Deutschmark, and refugees are welcome to leave. Frankly, Trump could almost disappear off the news, it really doesn't matter what happens now, that damage takes years to undo. Unless he goes back to the pitchfork ranting, of course, then all bets are off. Quote: That said, many folks are saying that the Democrats have failed to take seriously (or at least convey their interest in) the concerns of large portions of the working class. I don't think that's obviously false. What really has everyone so off balance everywhere seems to have a common theme, one which takes what would otherwise be intangible fears and irrational thoughts and gives them life in the form of vivid and nightmarish news casts. I'm not going to express that thought much more until I've explored it more. The alternative is the obvious non-answer to the global labor glut, a real problem everywhere that has nothing to do with nightmares, and everything to do with finding a new approach not only to the problem, but to expressing it in ways people get and believe. People's concerns haven't been met because, surprise, welcome to a new economy, yuuuge deals notwithstanding. Meanwhile, for me, now debating the wisdom of a push for EU rearmament. Need a few election results first anyway, but to have to think in such terms... Putin is a mad genius, OMG...
	__________________ Driftwood on an empty shore of the sea of meaninglessness. Irrelevant, weightless, inconsequential moment of existential hubris on the fast track to oblivion. His real name is Count Douchenozzle von Stenchfahrter und Lichtendicks. - shemp

13th November 2016, 04:50 PM	#305
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 49,664	Originally Posted by trustbutverify Before playing announce that the results only count if I win. If I lose, it was rigged. Before playing announce that the results only count if I win. ~~If I lose, it was rigged~~ Then I win. FTFY.

13th November 2016, 05:20 PM	#306
fuelair Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 58,581	Originally Posted by DennyT He has empowered every obnoxious bully in the country. and now those cowardly bullies now have guns. So do many of us who aren't.
fuelair Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 58,581

13th November 2016, 05:23 PM	#307
fuelair Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 58,581	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Wow. If someone had said it wouldn't bother them if Obama got assassinated, would you have considered that acceptable, regardless of how much they disliked the guy? Yes, but Trump is not Obama. Obama is an honorable and intelligent man, Trump is something one scrapes off one's shoe in disgust. As are his followers.
fuelair Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 58,581

13th November 2016, 05:36 PM	#308
fuelair Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 58,581	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Are you actually wishing for the brutal death of half the country? And you're okay with that? Not half the country, just the one's motivated enough to come after Trump and his republicker backside boys when they pay no more attention to them than anyone else did - and they will never learn that people have moved forward from their backward ways and ideas so at least they would be out of their misery and the misery they caused the rest of us on Tuesday. I am not in a forgiving or let's just all get along mood right now. Also, note that is just if they do as I suspect a reasonable but not gigantic number of them will if Trumpf does as most of we on the good side suspect he will - nothing functional for them and little for anyone not a republicker crony.
fuelair Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 58,581

13th November 2016, 05:39 PM	#309
fuelair Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 58,581	Originally Posted by Argumemnon I've always found it puzzling that some people are so adamant about making laws that doesn't affect them in any way, seemingly just to spite people they dislike. Not puzzling at all, they are simply ********.
fuelair Banned Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 58,581

13th November 2016, 06:47 PM	#310
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 31,711	A white supremacist is going to be a top advisor in the Trump cabinet. Sad
	__________________ 1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it.

13th November 2016, 07:31 PM	#311
ServiceSoon Graduate Poster Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,621	Originally Posted by Stacko Because this will some how be glossed over, a racist, anti-Semite was just named chief strategist by the President-elect. But hey, a conventional conservative in Reince Priebus is chief of staff so we can exhale because a white nationalist only gets second most influential job in White House. Meanwhile the Prime Minister of Israel congratulates Trump on his election victory.

13th November 2016, 07:34 PM	#312
Stacko Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 10,837	If you casually watched The West Wing, you know more about how the US government functions, duties and staffing responsibilities than the incoming administration. Quote: During their private White House meeting on Thursday, Mr. Obama walked his successor through the duties of running the country, and Mr. Trump seemed surprised by the scope, said people familiar with the meeting. Trump aides were described by those people as unaware that the entire presidential staff working in the West Wing had to be replaced at the end of Mr. Obama’s term. After meeting with Mr. Trump, the only person to be elected president without having held a government or military position, Mr. Obama realized the Republican needs more guidance. He plans to spend more time with his successor than presidents typically do, people familiar with the matter said. This ignorance is breathtaking.

13th November 2016, 07:41 PM	#313
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 46,999	Originally Posted by Stacko If you casually watched The West Wing, you know more about how the US government functions, duties and staffing responsibilities than the incoming administration. This ignorance is breathtaking. As is Obama's class. I think very few would be as magnanimous with an idiot like Trump.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

13th November 2016, 07:55 PM	#314
Cl1mh4224rd Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 9,778	Originally Posted by lionking As is Obama's class. I think very few would be as magnanimous with an idiot like Trump. That's a double-edged sword. I'm sure if Trump ***** things up bad enough, folks on the right will be all too eager to blame Obama's guidance and not Trump's crippling ADD.
Cl1mh4224rd Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 9,778

13th November 2016, 08:12 PM	#315
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 59,508	Originally Posted by lionking As is Obama's class. I think very few would be as magnanimous with an idiot like Trump. If I were Obama I'd be tempted to slip laxatives into Trump's coffee. Or PCP. Or both!
	__________________ You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.