Unconstitutional actions by fededal police in Portland? - Page 21

SezMe · 6th August 2020, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Pretty sure your perception is off kilter from my intention. I generally attack partisans. I don't care which party they're devoted to.

From my perspective, Aridas expressed my view, although much better than I could have.

portlandatheist · 6th August 2020, 05:13 PM

Another good article while I'm on a roll:
The Violence is the Point [the Bullwark]
Don't deceive yourself or the rest of us here. The violence is not a "the ends justify the means" scenario or argument, the violence is an end in itself. The violence is the point.

Quote:

The main thing to note about the resurgent violence is that there is no plan or program to it.

From the beginning of the protest movement set off by the killing of George Floyd, there was a split between the earnest young activists who wanted to draw attention to a cause and the angry would-be revolutionaries who were there to brawl. We saw videos from the early protests of young activists begging the black-clad anarchists to stop smashing store windows or vandalizing property (and being ignored).

Over time, though, the non-violent activists have mostly gone home. After all, suddenly a police reform agenda was what everyone was talking about. It was time to stop marching and start the actual work of forming an agenda people could agree on—this is the tough part—and getting politicians to vote for it.

If, that is, a reform agenda was what you were interested in.

The more radical wing of the protests was not, in fact, interested in such an agenda, and some weeks ago, the two wings of the protest movement moved more clearly apart. You can see that in Portland...

Aridas · 6th August 2020, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat

Pretty sure your perception is off kilter from my intention. I generally attack partisans. I don't care which party they're devoted to.

It's possible. I'm not especially convinced based on what I've seen during the last couple years, much as that's likely obvious, given my prior statement. With that said, I will not pretend that I've gone out of my way to try to review everything that you've said.

Elsewhere, to poke at this a little belatedly...

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

So covfefe was supposed to be "coverage"?

As I had given evidence before this was posted in #764, the original tweet in question was "Despite the negative covfefe" and that's it. Coverage is almost certainly the intended word.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I repeat my same comment, that is not a typo. Best explanation is he fell asleep while Tweeting managing to hit send as he dozed off. There are other explanations, a typo is not one of them.

I have no problem with the fefe part being counted as a typo, by nature. Trump falling asleep and messing things up a bit counts as a cause/reason for the typo, but doesn't negate its nature.

Emily's Cat · 7th August 2020, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey

Mostly in general, because while I have the sense that you've personally written about protesters in those terms, I don't have any quotes.

Your sense is wrong...

The vast majority of protesters are doing it right, nice and peaceful. And they've got a very legitimate complaint. i'd like to see a bit more clarity around what solution they're after... but it's getting there.

The rioters, however, are a problem. I just don't hold with being the aggressor in violence. i'm on the fence with regards to the feds in Portland. the police were prevented from doing their job of protecting property, so I don't object to the feds being involved. Would have preferred less aggression... but I'm also very unclear on who started what and how widespread it is and all the rest. All I've got are one-sided narratives giving very different perspectives on it. I assume reality is somewhere in the middle, but I don't know where that middle is, so I've mostly kept silent.

Which would be a big part of why you can't find quotes from me expressing the opinion that you've imagined that I hold.

Emily's Cat · 7th August 2020, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Mikemcc

He's still an illiterate buffoon. You elected an idiot as your boss. You deserve all of the abuse that you get from the rest of the world.

I didn't elect him. I don't believe that I deserve any abuse from you or the rest of the world, nor do I feel that any of it is justified.

lomiller · 7th August 2020, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by portlandatheist

Another good article while I'm on a roll:
The Violence is the Point [the Bullwark]
Don't deceive yourself or the rest of us here. The violence is not a "the ends justify the means" scenario or argument, the violence is an end in itself. The violence is the point.

Revolutionaries are often the ones on the right side of history so I find the idea of using “revolutionary” as a pejorative strange. This is particularly true in the US. If it wasn’t for “would be revolutionaries, ready to brawl” the US would never have been created in the first place.

Maybe it’s better to evaluate whether the cause is just before attacking the revolutionary’s fighting for it…

Emily's Cat · 7th August 2020, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by lomiller

Revolutionaries are often the ones on the right side of history so I find the idea of using “revolutionary” as a pejorative strange. This is particularly true in the US. If it wasn’t for “would be revolutionaries, ready to brawl” the US would never have been created in the first place.

They're only "revolutionaries" if they win. Otherwise they're "traitors" or "seditionists".

Shadowdweller · 7th August 2020, 05:16 PM

Some perspectives on the newest round of protests by local officials and police officers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKXB1USAyG8

(Mayor Wheeler and police officials)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMe2hou_sgE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha-7SETmJD4

(Experiences of police officers).

Please note: Most of these experience are NOT directly related to the federal troops. Just background on what's going on here.

6th August 2020, 10:16 PM	#803
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: East Coast, US Posts: 7,471	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Pretty sure your perception is off kilter from my intention. I generally attack partisans. I don't care which party they're devoted to. It's possible. I'm not especially convinced based on what I've seen during the last couple years, much as that's likely obvious, given my prior statement. With that said, I will not pretend that I've gone out of my way to try to review everything that you've said. Elsewhere, to poke at this a little belatedly... Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger So covfefe was supposed to be "coverage"? As I had given evidence before this was posted in #764, the original tweet in question was "Despite the negative covfefe" and that's it. Coverage is almost certainly the intended word. Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger I repeat my same comment, that is not a typo. Best explanation is he fell asleep while Tweeting managing to hit send as he dozed off. There are other explanations, a typo is not one of them. I have no problem with the fefe part being counted as a typo, by nature. Trump falling asleep and messing things up a bit counts as a cause/reason for the typo, but doesn't negate its nature.
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

7th August 2020, 12:52 PM	#804
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 14,814	Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey Mostly in general, because while I have the sense that you've personally written about protesters in those terms, I don't have any quotes. Your sense is wrong... The vast majority of protesters are doing it right, nice and peaceful. And they've got a very legitimate complaint. i'd like to see a bit more clarity around what solution they're after... but it's getting there. The rioters, however, are a problem. I just don't hold with being the aggressor in violence. i'm on the fence with regards to the feds in Portland. the police were prevented from doing their job of protecting property, so I don't object to the feds being involved. Would have preferred less aggression... but I'm also very unclear on who started what and how widespread it is and all the rest. All I've got are one-sided narratives giving very different perspectives on it. I assume reality is somewhere in the middle, but I don't know where that middle is, so I've mostly kept silent. Which would be a big part of why you can't find quotes from me expressing the opinion that you've imagined that I hold.
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

7th August 2020, 12:53 PM	#805
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 14,814	Originally Posted by Mikemcc He's still an illiterate buffoon. You elected an idiot as your boss. You deserve all of the abuse that you get from the rest of the world. I didn't elect him. I don't believe that I deserve any abuse from you or the rest of the world, nor do I feel that any of it is justified.
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

7th August 2020, 01:20 PM	#806
lomiller Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 11,376	Originally Posted by portlandatheist Another good article while I'm on a roll: The Violence is the Point [the Bullwark] Don't deceive yourself or the rest of us here. The violence is not a "the ends justify the means" scenario or argument, the violence is an end in itself. The violence is the point. Revolutionaries are often the ones on the right side of history so I find the idea of using “revolutionary” as a pejorative strange. This is particularly true in the US. If it wasn’t for “would be revolutionaries, ready to brawl” the US would never have been created in the first place. Maybe it’s better to evaluate whether the cause is just before attacking the revolutionary’s fighting for it…
	__________________ "Anything's possible, but only a few things actually happen"

7th August 2020, 01:54 PM	#807
Emily's Cat Rarely prone to hissy-fits Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth Posts: 14,814	Originally Posted by lomiller Revolutionaries are often the ones on the right side of history so I find the idea of using “revolutionary” as a pejorative strange. This is particularly true in the US. If it wasn’t for “would be revolutionaries, ready to brawl” the US would never have been created in the first place. They're only "revolutionaries" if they win. Otherwise they're "traitors" or "seditionists".
	__________________ I am me. I am just me. I'm a little like other cats... but mostly I am just me.

6th August 2020, 05:03 PM	#801
SezMe post-pre-born Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 25,010	Originally Posted by Emily's Cat Pretty sure your perception is off kilter from my intention. I generally attack partisans. I don't care which party they're devoted to. From my perspective, Aridas expressed my view, although much better than I could have.

6th August 2020, 05:13 PM	#802
portlandatheist Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,612	Another good article while I'm on a roll: The Violence is the Point [the Bullwark] Don't deceive yourself or the rest of us here. The violence is not a "the ends justify the means" scenario or argument, the violence is an end in itself. The violence is the point. Quote: The main thing to note about the resurgent violence is that there is no plan or program to it. From the beginning of the protest movement set off by the killing of George Floyd, there was a split between the earnest young activists who wanted to draw attention to a cause and the angry would-be revolutionaries who were there to brawl. We saw videos from the early protests of young activists begging the black-clad anarchists to stop smashing store windows or vandalizing property (and being ignored). Over time, though, the non-violent activists have mostly gone home. After all, suddenly a police reform agenda was what everyone was talking about. It was time to stop marching and start the actual work of forming an agenda people could agree on—this is the tough part—and getting politicians to vote for it. If, that is, a reform agenda was what you were interested in. The more radical wing of the protests was not, in fact, interested in such an agenda, and some weeks ago, the two wings of the protest movement moved more clearly apart. You can see that in Portland...

7th August 2020, 05:16 PM	#808
Shadowdweller Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,015	Some perspectives on the newest round of protests by local officials and police officers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKXB1USAyG8 (Mayor Wheeler and police officials) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMe2hou_sgE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha-7SETmJD4 (Experiences of police officers). Please note: Most of these experience are NOT directly related to the federal troops. Just background on what's going on here.