Having a mental health event while white

lionking · 14th September 2020, 04:08 AM

Sorry about the title. It fits the general theme though. It happened in Melbourne, Australia yesterday.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/ep...e-9d6417a017bf

Quote:

A man is in an induced coma after he was allegedly struck by a police vehicle and kicked in the head by an officer during his arrest in Melbourne's north yesterday.
Video shows a group of six police officers pinning the man to the ground in Epping about 4.10pm, with one officer allegedly stomping on his face.
The father-of-three, 32, was waiting for a mental health bed at the Northern Hospital but decided to leave after waiting more than a day in emergency.
Hospital staff then called police to bring him back, where the violent arrest unfolded outside on suburban Cooper Street.

A couple of disclosers. I know the family involved very well. The victim’s father was once my best friend, but we have grown apart in recent years, mainly because he moved far away. My children played basketball with the victim and his brothers.

What I can confirm is that the victim did suffer mental illness but ran a plumbing business, had a wife and children and had no history of violence. I also know the area it happened very well. It’s 100 meters from where I worked. It’s usually a very busy traffic thoroughfare, but we are in strict lockdown. There would have been few if any pedestrians theoretically in danger by the victim.

I’ve been a defender of police often, and acknowledge the tough job they have. But at least one cop, the one who kicked the victim after he surrendered, is in deep trouble. The other body which will face close scrutiny is Northern Hospital which failed to deal with someone who needed assistance. He is now in a coma.

I wish the victim a successful recovery.

And, yes I know he lashed out at the police car, but the police were aware he was mentally unwell. They handled this extremely poorly.

SuburbanTurkey · 14th September 2020, 04:16 AM

I'm not familiar with Australian policing. Is it likely that a cop that brutalizes a member of the public like this will face meaningful consequences? Criminal charges, or just some work-discipline?

lionking · 14th September 2020, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

I'm not familiar with Australian policing. Is it likely that a cop that brutalizes a member of the public like this will face meaningful consequences? Criminal charges, or just some work-discipline?

Could be either. The police union is pretty powerful here though, so I expect disciplinary action. I’ll be amazed if nothing happens.

lionking · 14th September 2020, 04:26 AM

Of no relevance to this thread, the brother of the victim, a roof plumber, last week had a tree fall on his car while driving not far from my home. A few feet away and he’d be dead, but just two broken legs thankfully. I feel so sad for the family.

SuburbanTurkey · 14th September 2020, 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

Could be either. The police union is pretty powerful here though, so I expect disciplinary action. I’ll be amazed if nothing happens.

can the union prevent prosecution?

There's often a similar problem about strong police unions preventing work-place discipline against cops who commit violent crimes on the job, but the unions official power does not extend to the criminal justice system. The decision not to prosecute is often political and at the discretion of the DA.

lionking · 14th September 2020, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

can the union prevent prosecution?

There's often a similar problem about strong police unions preventing work-place discipline against cops who commit violent crimes on the job, but the unions official power does not extend to the criminal justice system. The decision not to prosecute is often political and at the discretion of the DA.

Yes you are right. The media this event is getting will at least result in a serious investigation.

uke2se · 14th September 2020, 06:36 AM

This seems to be very much a not-US-centric problem with Police. There was a case a year or two ago in Sweden where a young kid with Autism and Downs Syndrome was gunned down by Police. The court ruled that the officers were in an "imagined self-defense situation" and acquitted them. Not really the same situation as the horribleness described in the OP, but another paragraph of an ongoing story.

lionking · 14th September 2020, 07:31 PM

The policeman who kneed the victim, Tim (he has now been named in the media) has been stood down and I think there is a strong case for him to be charged with assault. The Premier of Victoria made reference to this event in his daily press conference.

This event isn't going away.

There are reports that Tim is still in a coma and his life is at risk. I haven't tried to contact his parents at this stage.

rjh01 · 14th September 2020, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey

I'm not familiar with Australian policing. Is it likely that a cop that brutalizes a member of the public like this will face meaningful consequences? Criminal charges, or just some work-discipline?

I would not be surprised if no police are ever convicted of any criminal offense. Be ready to hear some police officer defend what happened. What is said may be fiction.

Edit. I have just done a google search and there I could not find many examples of police being convicted of criminal offences while doing their job.

Venom · 14th September 2020, 09:01 PM

I don't think this "____ while ____" joke works outside the U.S.

The backdrop of these parody threads is usually racial tensions in the U.S.

Shadowdweller · 14th September 2020, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Venom

I don't think this "____ while ____" joke works outside the U.S.

The backdrop of these parody threads is usually racial tensions in the U.S.

Ramming a (self-hospitalized) mentally ill (disturbed?...bipolar having issues?) gentleman with a motor vehicle and then stomping on his head, sending him into a coma isn't exactly a joke.

lionking · 14th September 2020, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Shadowdweller

Ramming a (self-hospitalized) mentally ill (disturbed?...bipolar having issues?) gentleman with a motor vehicle and then stomping on his head, sending him into a coma isn't exactly a joke.

It wasn't meant to be a joke, but I didn't want it to sink without a trace, hence the clickbait (which didn't work anyway). Apologies.

lionking · 14th September 2020, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by rjh01

I would not be surprised if no police are ever convicted of any criminal offense. Be ready to hear some police officer defend what happened. What is said may be fiction.

Edit. I have just done a google search and there I could not find many examples of police being convicted of criminal offences while doing their job.

You don't have to look too hard. Same jurisdiction and a couple of suburbs away from Epping:

https://www.news.com.au/national/vic...f6029be580660b

Quote:

Edney, 30, was sentenced to an adjourned undertaking of 12 months and fined $1000 for hitting the victim six times with a baton and placing his foot on the victim’s head.

McLeod, 35, was sentenced to an adjourned undertaking of 12 months and fined $3500 for spraying the victim in the face at close range with capsicum spray, punching him in the stomach, and encouraging another officer to spray the victim with a garden hose while he filmed.

Hilgart, 42, was sentenced to an adjourned undertaking of 12 months and fined $1000 for spraying the victim with the garden hose so it could be filmed.

rjh01 · 15th September 2020, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

You don't have to look too hard. Same jurisdiction and a couple of suburbs away from Epping:

https://www.news.com.au/national/vic...f6029be580660b

Your case proves my point. None of the three police offices will have convictions recorded for their crimes that “horrified” a Heidelberg magistrate. The reason is so that they would have a better chance of staying as police officers. I would not want those police officers knocking on my door.

14th September 2020, 04:08 AM	#1
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 46,999	Having a mental health event while white Sorry about the title. It fits the general theme though. It happened in Melbourne, Australia yesterday. https://www.9news.com.au/national/ep...e-9d6417a017bf Quote: A man is in an induced coma after he was allegedly struck by a police vehicle and kicked in the head by an officer during his arrest in Melbourne's north yesterday. Video shows a group of six police officers pinning the man to the ground in Epping about 4.10pm, with one officer allegedly stomping on his face. The father-of-three, 32, was waiting for a mental health bed at the Northern Hospital but decided to leave after waiting more than a day in emergency. Hospital staff then called police to bring him back, where the violent arrest unfolded outside on suburban Cooper Street. A couple of disclosers. I know the family involved very well. The victim’s father was once my best friend, but we have grown apart in recent years, mainly because he moved far away. My children played basketball with the victim and his brothers. What I can confirm is that the victim did suffer mental illness but ran a plumbing business, had a wife and children and had no history of violence. I also know the area it happened very well. It’s 100 meters from where I worked. It’s usually a very busy traffic thoroughfare, but we are in strict lockdown. There would have been few if any pedestrians theoretically in danger by the victim. I’ve been a defender of police often, and acknowledge the tough job they have. But at least one cop, the one who kicked the victim after he surrendered, is in deep trouble. The other body which will face close scrutiny is Northern Hospital which failed to deal with someone who needed assistance. He is now in a coma. I wish the victim a successful recovery. And, yes I know he lashed out at the police car, but the police were aware he was mentally unwell. They handled this extremely poorly.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

14th September 2020, 04:16 AM	#2
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,012	I'm not familiar with Australian policing. Is it likely that a cop that brutalizes a member of the public like this will face meaningful consequences? Criminal charges, or just some work-discipline?
	__________________ Gobble gobble

14th September 2020, 04:22 AM	#3
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 46,999	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey I'm not familiar with Australian policing. Is it likely that a cop that brutalizes a member of the public like this will face meaningful consequences? Criminal charges, or just some work-discipline? Could be either. The police union is pretty powerful here though, so I expect disciplinary action. I’ll be amazed if nothing happens.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

14th September 2020, 04:26 AM	#4
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 46,999	Of no relevance to this thread, the brother of the victim, a roof plumber, last week had a tree fall on his car while driving not far from my home. A few feet away and he’d be dead, but just two broken legs thankfully. I feel so sad for the family.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

14th September 2020, 04:28 AM	#5
SuburbanTurkey Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 8,012	Originally Posted by lionking Could be either. The police union is pretty powerful here though, so I expect disciplinary action. I’ll be amazed if nothing happens. can the union prevent prosecution? There's often a similar problem about strong police unions preventing work-place discipline against cops who commit violent crimes on the job, but the unions official power does not extend to the criminal justice system. The decision not to prosecute is often political and at the discretion of the DA.
	__________________ Gobble gobble

14th September 2020, 04:32 AM	#6
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 46,999	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey can the union prevent prosecution? There's often a similar problem about strong police unions preventing work-place discipline against cops who commit violent crimes on the job, but the unions official power does not extend to the criminal justice system. The decision not to prosecute is often political and at the discretion of the DA. Yes you are right. The media this event is getting will at least result in a serious investigation.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

14th September 2020, 06:36 AM	#7
uke2se Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 14,181	This seems to be very much a not-US-centric problem with Police. There was a case a year or two ago in Sweden where a young kid with Autism and Downs Syndrome was gunned down by Police. The court ruled that the officers were in an "imagined self-defense situation" and acquitted them. Not really the same situation as the horribleness described in the OP, but another paragraph of an ongoing story.
	__________________ Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list. "If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1 Last edited by uke2se; 14th September 2020 at 06:37 AM.

14th September 2020, 07:31 PM	#8
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 46,999	The policeman who kneed the victim, Tim (he has now been named in the media) has been stood down and I think there is a strong case for him to be charged with assault. The Premier of Victoria made reference to this event in his daily press conference. This event isn't going away. There are reports that Tim is still in a coma and his life is at risk. I haven't tried to contact his parents at this stage.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

14th September 2020, 09:00 PM	#9
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 26,516	Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey I'm not familiar with Australian policing. Is it likely that a cop that brutalizes a member of the public like this will face meaningful consequences? Criminal charges, or just some work-discipline? I would not be surprised if no police are ever convicted of any criminal offense. Be ready to hear some police officer defend what happened. What is said may be fiction. Edit. I have just done a google search and there I could not find many examples of police being convicted of criminal offences while doing their job.
	__________________ This signature is for rent. Last edited by rjh01; 14th September 2020 at 09:11 PM.

14th September 2020, 09:01 PM	#10
Venom Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: United States Posts: 4,901	I don't think this "____ while ____" joke works outside the U.S. The backdrop of these parody threads is usually racial tensions in the U.S.

14th September 2020, 09:17 PM	#11
Shadowdweller Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,015	Originally Posted by Venom I don't think this "____ while ____" joke works outside the U.S. The backdrop of these parody threads is usually racial tensions in the U.S. Ramming a (self-hospitalized) mentally ill (disturbed?...bipolar having issues?) gentleman with a motor vehicle and then stomping on his head, sending him into a coma isn't exactly a joke.

14th September 2020, 11:02 PM	#12
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 46,999	Originally Posted by Shadowdweller Ramming a (self-hospitalized) mentally ill (disturbed?...bipolar having issues?) gentleman with a motor vehicle and then stomping on his head, sending him into a coma isn't exactly a joke. It wasn't meant to be a joke, but I didn't want it to sink without a trace, hence the clickbait (which didn't work anyway). Apologies.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

14th September 2020, 11:07 PM	#13
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 46,999	Originally Posted by rjh01 I would not be surprised if no police are ever convicted of any criminal offense. Be ready to hear some police officer defend what happened. What is said may be fiction. Edit. I have just done a google search and there I could not find many examples of police being convicted of criminal offences while doing their job. You don't have to look too hard. Same jurisdiction and a couple of suburbs away from Epping: https://www.news.com.au/national/vic...f6029be580660b Quote: Edney, 30, was sentenced to an adjourned undertaking of 12 months and fined $1000 for hitting the victim six times with a baton and placing his foot on the victim’s head. McLeod, 35, was sentenced to an adjourned undertaking of 12 months and fined $3500 for spraying the victim in the face at close range with capsicum spray, punching him in the stomach, and encouraging another officer to spray the victim with a garden hose while he filmed. Hilgart, 42, was sentenced to an adjourned undertaking of 12 months and fined $1000 for spraying the victim with the garden hose so it could be filmed.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

15th September 2020, 02:30 AM	#14
rjh01 Gentleman of leisure Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Flying around in the sky Posts: 26,516	Originally Posted by lionking You don't have to look too hard. Same jurisdiction and a couple of suburbs away from Epping: https://www.news.com.au/national/vic...f6029be580660b Your case proves my point. None of the three police offices will have convictions recorded for their crimes that “horrified” a Heidelberg magistrate. The reason is so that they would have a better chance of staying as police officers. I would not want those police officers knocking on my door.
	__________________ This signature is for rent.