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Tags Brad Raffensberger , donald trump , election fraud charges , Georgia elections , politics scandals

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Old 4th January 2021, 08:21 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
As much as I wish that were true, it won't.

I'm not saying she will win or lose the election, I don't believe it will matter. She was already going to live or die with Trump. Most of the votes in Georgia have already been cast.
It seemed like it with the news reports on record numbers of early votes, but they amount to about half of the active registered voters.

Still it's very promising.
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Old 4th January 2021, 08:21 PM   #202
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i think trump exposes the myth that success in the US is based on ability, hard work, or merit.
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Old 4th January 2021, 08:26 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
It seemed like it with the news reports on record numbers of early votes, but they amount to about half of the active registered voters.

Still it's very promising.
I'm not getting my hopes up, but neither am I predicting doom.
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Old 4th January 2021, 08:27 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
OK, another thing unhinged about that phone call:

Flipping Georgia doesn't do it for Trump. It doesn't even come close. Any communication he has with Pennsylvania is going to be 10 times worse if it hasn't already been. (Frankly I can't keep up, which is his goal).
If he got Georgia to flip, he has proof that his claims of voter fraud were correct all along. He would tell these other states that he has been saying they had voter fraud and now Georgia confirmed his claims and his claims are true in other states as well.

Even if those states don't go for it, he can bring it to Congress. Tell them they were about to confirm the Georgia electoral votes even under objection and now it has been proven that they were wrong. They were going to approve invalid votes. He would try to convince member of Congress that they are about to make the same grave error for the other contested states.

Maybe get them to go with the Cruz plan for a 10-day audit. Or at least get the to reject the votes from the contested states to get Biden under 270. Then have Pence declare that the "whole number of electors" is actually 538 and not 538 minus the rejected votes and declare nobody got a majority, sending it to the House.

Or failing that, ask the Supreme Court to expedite the pending case now that a state has confirmed election fraud. And so on...
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Old 4th January 2021, 08:40 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
If he got Georgia to flip, he has proof that his claims of voter fraud were correct all along. He would tell these other states that he has been saying they had voter fraud and now Georgia confirmed his claims and his claims are true in other states as well.

Even if those states don't go for it, he can bring it to Congress. Tell them they were about to confirm the Georgia electoral votes even under objection and now it has been proven that they were wrong. They were going to approve invalid votes. He would try to convince member of Congress that they are about to make the same grave error for the other contested states.

Maybe get them to go with the Cruz plan for a 10-day audit. Or at least get the to reject the votes from the contested states to get Biden under 270. Then have Pence declare that the "whole number of electors" is actually 538 and not 538 minus the rejected votes and declare nobody got a majority, sending it to the House.

Or failing that, ask the Supreme Court to expedite the pending case now that a state has confirmed election fraud. And so on...
IMO, this is essentially a sound analysis

Georgia is the flipped state with the smallest number of votes to "find" - he will see it as the first "domino" state, if he can knock that one over, he hopes it will know the rest over.
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Old 4th January 2021, 08:41 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'm not getting my hopes up, but neither am I predicting doom.
Cautiously optimistic here.
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Old 4th January 2021, 08:48 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'd argue that this call changed the political environment a lot going into the count on Monday. I think it absolutely takes the wind out of the sails of the Republicans challenging the votes. Sure, they still will challenge the votes but the debate is going to make them look awful. I bet more than a few Senators are questioning their decision to challenge the vote.
This call is going to totally mess up my electoral count bingo list.
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Old 4th January 2021, 08:58 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
If he got Georgia to flip, he has proof that his claims of voter fraud were correct all along. He would tell these other states that he has been saying they had voter fraud and now Georgia confirmed his claims and his claims are true in other states as well.

Even if those states don't go for it, he can bring it to Congress. Tell them they were about to confirm the Georgia electoral votes even under objection and now it has been proven that they were wrong. They were going to approve invalid votes. He would try to convince member of Congress that they are about to make the same grave error for the other contested states.

Maybe get them to go with the Cruz plan for a 10-day audit. Or at least get the to reject the votes from the contested states to get Biden under 270. Then have Pence declare that the "whole number of electors" is actually 538 and not 538 minus the rejected votes and declare nobody got a majority, sending it to the House.

Or failing that, ask the Supreme Court to expedite the pending case now that a state has confirmed election fraud. And so on...
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
IMO, this is essentially a sound analysis.

Georgia is the flipped state with the smallest number of votes to "find" - he will see it as the first "domino" state, if he can knock that one over, he hopes it will know the rest over.
Seconded.
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Old 4th January 2021, 09:02 PM   #209
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Stacy Abrams was in an interview today on MSNBC. She described how purging of voters rolls disenfranchised as many as a million voters when she ran against Kemp for governor of GA. Kemp had Raffensperger's job at the same time he was running for governor.

I wonder if any of these guys will reflect on their voter suppression efforts after this.
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Old 4th January 2021, 09:11 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
IMO, this is essentially a sound analysis

Georgia is the flipped state with the smallest number of votes to "find" - he will see it as the first "domino" state, if he can knock that one over, he hopes it will know the rest over.
Also, Georgia leaked the call. I wonder if other States may have similar calls but haven't dropped them in the media? Trump may be doing the same thing in all the close calls, but only one State so far has a leaker.
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Old 4th January 2021, 09:11 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
This call is going to totally mess up my electoral count bingo list.
Keep in mind that 5 minute speeches are allotted for each politician in the 2 hour period and they can't repeat. So we have 12 people speaking for objecting to the votes and 87 against. Perdue won't be present as he is not a Senator unless his re-election is certified which it won't be in time if he wins.

So it will be 3 or 4 Senators at most speaking for the objection and and 18 speaking against during each session. The House has more nutjobs supporting the objection. Still, they will be outnumbered 2.5 to 1.
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Old 4th January 2021, 09:13 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Also, Georgia leaked the call. I wonder if other States may have similar calls but haven't dropped them in the media? Trump may be doing the same thing in all the close calls, but only one State so far has a leaker.
Raffensperger was only going to use it if Trump lied about him.

In other words, he knew he was going to leak the call.
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Old 4th January 2021, 09:30 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Raffensperger was only going to use it if Trump lied about him.

In other words, he knew he was going to leak the call.
So how many other States you reckon might have a thumb drive still waiting to meet the media?
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Old 4th January 2021, 09:38 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
So how many other States you reckon might have a thumb drive still waiting to meet the media?
I have no idea. It wouldn't surprise me that after Trump is out, some of those calls will surface.
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Old 4th January 2021, 09:54 PM   #215
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Bill Kristol and Brian Williams on MSNBC just now agree that both Cruz and Hawley are aiming for the 2024 POTUS run. Apparently they think it makes them look tough.

Cruz cloaks his attack on Democracy in a supposed rational plan to have an election commission look at the situation. I suppose that is convincing to some of the non-Trumpanzees in the GOP who haven't totally gone over the cliff but are still too stupid to realize more than enough investigating has been done and there is no evidence there of any election fraud.

Kristol thinks it will come back to bite them all.
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Old 4th January 2021, 11:13 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
It also raises the interesting question of how this gets dodged 18 times. The logistics of it.

I mean, you can only be in a meeting or whatever so often before it becomes obvious.
Trump is a master at not grasping the obvious.
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Old 5th January 2021, 12:05 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Keep in mind that 5 minute speeches are allotted for each politician in the 2 hour period and they can't repeat. So we have 12 people speaking for objecting to the votes and 87 against. Perdue won't be present as he is not a Senator unless his re-election is certified which it won't be in time if he wins.

So it will be 3 or 4 Senators at most speaking for the objection and and 18 speaking against during each session. The House has more nutjobs supporting the objection. Still, they will be outnumbered 2.5 to 1.
The highlighted is something I have wondered about. Loeffler said she would vote with the Cruz crowd. Isn't she in the same boat? Or is there some weird issue about special elections?
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Old 5th January 2021, 01:10 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
The highlighted is something I have wondered about. Loeffler said she would vote with the Cruz crowd. Isn't she in the same boat? Or is there some weird issue about special elections?
Yeah, the difference is she's appointed to the seat. Purdue's full term expired Sunday.
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Old 5th January 2021, 01:12 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Yeah, the difference is she's appointed to the seat. Purdue's full term expired Sunday.
That's kind of what I figured. So when does her term expire? I thought she was up for election so her term expired at the same time.
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Old 5th January 2021, 01:18 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
The highlighted is something I have wondered about. Loeffler said she would vote with the Cruz crowd. Isn't she in the same boat? Or is there some weird issue about special elections?
Perdue's terms ends January 3. He is in the runoff election because he didn't get more than 50% of the vote. The vote was very close and a Libertarian candidate got a small amount of the vote, but enough to keep Perdue from getting 50%.

Johnny Isakson was elected in 2016 with a 6 year term expiring January 2023. He resigned due to health reasons at the end of 2019. Loeffler was appointed by Governor Kemp to fill his seat, which doesn't expire until January 2023. But that is only a temporary appointment requiring an election for that seat at the next election.

Perdue is not seated because the term for his seat has expired and nobody has yet been elected to fill the new seat. Loeffler remains seated because the term for that seat does not expire until 2023, but the person filling that seat can be changed by this election. Loeffler remains in that seat until there is a new person elected.
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Old 5th January 2021, 01:19 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
That's kind of what I figured. So when does her term expire? I thought she was up for election so her term expired at the same time.
It doesn't expire per se. She stays until the special election is settled.
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Old 5th January 2021, 02:58 AM   #222
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A Tonight Show with Stephen Colbert tonight had this funny satirical opening:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE



For anyone who can't see it because it's blocked in your countries:
It's a parody using the song I just called to say I love you: I just called to steal the election.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 5th January 2021 at 02:59 AM.
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Old 5th January 2021, 03:24 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
A Tonight Show with Stephen Colbert tonight had this funny satirical opening:

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I AGREE



For anyone who can't see it because it's blocked in your countries:
It's a parody using the song I just called to say I love you: I just called to steal the election.
Brilliant!
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Old 5th January 2021, 03:54 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Suddenly View Post
All I would hope for is that someone was actually in the office when this happened.

I mean, the look on their face when they hear me say "The President? Again? Can you tell him I'm in an important meeting" and see me hang up the phone with an exasperated manner and then asking "I'm sorry. Where were we?"
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Old 5th January 2021, 03:59 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
A third option is that he's out of his ******* mind and utterly unable to distinguish fantasy from reality.
I think the evidence is overwhelming that he is seriously mentally ill/disabled. He is only not in treatment because his wealth has shielded him from the consequences of his illness.
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Old 5th January 2021, 04:11 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
A Tonight Show with Stephen Colbert tonight had this funny satirical opening:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE



For anyone who can't see it because it's blocked in your countries:
It's a parody using the song I just called to say I love you: I just called to steal the election.
Please tell me that was written by Randy Rainbow.
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Old 5th January 2021, 04:12 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
If he got Georgia to flip, he has proof that his claims of voter fraud were correct all along. He would tell these other states that he has been saying they had voter fraud and now Georgia confirmed his claims and his claims are true in other states as well.

Even if those states don't go for it, he can bring it to Congress. Tell them they were about to confirm the Georgia electoral votes even under objection and now it has been proven that they were wrong. They were going to approve invalid votes. He would try to convince member of Congress that they are about to make the same grave error for the other contested states.

Maybe get them to go with the Cruz plan for a 10-day audit. Or at least get the to reject the votes from the contested states to get Biden under 270. Then have Pence declare that the "whole number of electors" is actually 538 and not 538 minus the rejected votes and declare nobody got a majority, sending it to the House.

Or failing that, ask the Supreme Court to expedite the pending case now that a state has confirmed election fraud. And so on...
His advisors and aides may have a plan and are trying to steer him in a particular direction but Trump is not coming up with any plan. All he knows is that he wants to be reelected so he will shout, scream, sulk and lash out at anyone as that is all he knows and since his father died all he has ever had to do to get his own way.
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Old 5th January 2021, 05:40 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Just hypothetically speaking, how would you feel about someone who believed their choice was between a witch or a clown, and that a clown President would be more fun for the next four years?
We had such a horrid choice for Governor of Louisiana a number of years back: Edwin Edwards vs. David Duke. The slogan was "Vote for the crook! It's important!" Which we did.
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Old 5th January 2021, 05:58 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I think the evidence is overwhelming that he is seriously mentally ill/disabled. He is only not in treatment because his wealth has shielded him from the consequences of his illness.
Narcissism and similar personality disorders are considered by a lot of practitioners to be functionally untreatable, and people who have those conditions more rarely seek treatment because they don't perceive that there's anything wrong with them.
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Old 5th January 2021, 07:37 AM   #230
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Are there any Senators or Congresspeople who plan to contest the election results of their state? I was just wondering how that would go. For example, someone from Georgia stands up and says there was voter fraud in Georgia during the exact election that put them into Congress?

I still can't figure out Ted Cruz. He's out front now in this election challenge, but he has been personally accused by Trump of rigging an election when he beat Trump in the Iowa(?) primary back in 2016.
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Old 5th January 2021, 07:44 AM   #231
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No one yet has mentioned one of my favorite quotes from the transcript. It provides insight into how Trump evaluates lawyers.

Quote:
Trump: No, they were 100 percent for Biden. 100 percent. There wasn't a Trump vote in the whole group. Why don't you want to find this, Ryan? What's wrong with you? I heard your lawyer is very difficult, actually, but I'm sure you're a good lawyer. You have a nice last name.
But, but I'm just curious why wouldn't, why do you keep fighting this thing? It just doesn't make sense.
Seriously, though. I've read through the entire transcript and Trump's way of speaking is clearly abnormal. He goes off on non-sequiturs like this quite often.
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Old 5th January 2021, 07:54 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by Monza View Post
Seriously, though. I've read through the entire transcript and Trump's way of speaking is clearly abnormal. He goes off on non-sequiturs like this quite often.
I think we all know that by now from hearing him speak often enough, and yeah, even allowing for the fact that most people's speech looks ridiculous on the page, it is often really impossible to tell where he is even going when reading something he has said. He barely gets halfway into a thought before he is off on another one.

It's an odd mixture of demands, threats, flattery, fawning and bigging himself up all at the same time.
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Old 5th January 2021, 07:59 AM   #233
Darat
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Originally Posted by Monza View Post
No one yet has mentioned one of my favorite quotes from the transcript. It provides insight into how Trump evaluates lawyers.



Seriously, though. I've read through the entire transcript and Trump's way of speaking is clearly abnormal. He goes off on non-sequiturs like this quite often.
Listen to him when he is trying to read how many votes he needs. I can imagine he is squinting at his sharpie scribbled number, then when he needs to add one to that figure he pauses as he tries to do the maths. Listen also for how he says “votes” both times. It is as if he has no comprehension of what the word means. It really does convey someone who has cognitive problems - whether that is because of old age or a disease or even being stupid is a question for debate.

Given the apparent decline over the last 10 years (by viewing him talking in older recordings) I wouldn’t be surprised if he isn’t suffering with vascular dementia:

Quote:
NHS England

Symptoms of vascular dementia

Vascular dementia can start suddenly or begin slowly over time.

Symptoms include:
  • slowness of thought
  • difficulty with planning and understanding
  • problems with concentration
  • changes to your mood, personality or behaviour
  • feeling disoriented and confused
  • difficulty walking and keeping balance
  • symptoms of Alzheimer's disease, such as problems with memory and language (many people with vascular dementia also have Alzheimer's disease)

These problems can make daily activities increasingly difficult and someone with the condition may eventually be unable to look after themselves.
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Old 5th January 2021, 08:02 AM   #234
BobTheCoward
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Has there been any confirmation if it was a lawsuit meeting or not?
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Old 5th January 2021, 08:03 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
Please tell me that was written by Randy Rainbow.
Randy only spoofs using Broadway show tunes.
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Old 5th January 2021, 08:14 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Just hypothetically speaking, how would you feel about someone who believed their choice was between a witch or a clown, and that a clown President would be more fun for the next four years?
I'd think they were idiots for believing witchcraft is real.
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Old 5th January 2021, 08:38 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by Monza View Post
Are there any Senators or Congresspeople who plan to contest the election results of their state? I was just wondering how that would go. For example, someone from Georgia stands up and says there was voter fraud in Georgia during the exact election that put them into Congress?
Here in GA, our newly elected Representative Greene is planning to contest the results. She has already said only the Presidential results were fraudulent, not the rest of the votes on the same ballots. She's a special one, a QAnon quack who has already gotten into shouting matches with Reps from her own party.

Originally Posted by Monza View Post
I still can't figure out Ted Cruz. He's out front now in this election challenge, but he has been personally accused by Trump of rigging an election when he beat Trump in the Iowa(?) primary back in 2016.
Yeah, Cruz knows that the people falling for the fake fraud claims aren't smart or aware enough to remember he was accused by the same guy for the same rigging 4 years ago.
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Old 5th January 2021, 08:38 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Listen to him when he is trying to read how many votes he needs. I can imagine he is squinting at his sharpie scribbled number, then when he needs to add one to that figure he pauses as he tries to do the maths. Listen also for how he says “votes” both times. It is as if he has no comprehension of what the word means. It really does convey someone who has cognitive problems - whether that is because of old age or a disease or even being stupid is a question for debate.
...
That was exactly the impression I had.
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Old 5th January 2021, 09:04 AM   #239
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Old 5th January 2021, 09:26 AM   #240
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by Monza View Post
No one yet has mentioned one of my favorite quotes from the transcript. It provides insight into how Trump evaluates lawyers.

Seriously, though. I've read through the entire transcript and Trump's way of speaking is clearly abnormal. He goes off on non-sequiturs like this quite often.
It's much worse listening to that call. The transcript doesn't do it justice. Trump at times seems slow with dementia and at other times like a coked up Charlie Sheen. But the Secretary and his lawyer barely got a word in.

As for listening to the whole thing. I both recommend listening to it and not listening to it. Listen to it to comprehend just how wrong, desperate and nuts Trump is and don't listen to it because it is painful realizing this country made this moron President. I cringed through the whole thing always wanting to stop.
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