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Tags Capitol riot , donald trump , protest incidents , Trump controversies , Washington DC incidents

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Old 29th January 2021, 05:14 AM   #2761
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I'm all for being lenient with Oathkeepers who help identify all the members of the group: let them go on probation and ban them from ever having a gun.

We can check in a year later and sent them all to prison, because they all with have illegally obtained a firearm.
First rat gets the cheese. Someone will flip, just like the recent news that a person from the Michigan Militia plot to kidnap and murder the governor there. It was recently announced one of militia guys has flipped and is going State's evidence.

It may only take 1, or a handful if we're talking a larger network of multiple state groups, to give testimony and other evidence to absolutely nail these people to the wall for conspiracy charges.

The arrest of the first 3 may as well been a starter pistol going off. The race to inform has begun, no prizes for second place.
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Old 29th January 2021, 07:43 AM   #2762
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Quote:
Body Camera Footage Shows Capitol Rioters Trampling Over Woman
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/28/u...-trampled.html

Body cam footage of the trampling death of Rosanne Boyland. She was crushed to death by her fellow mob members during the melee to forcibly enter the capitol.

From an interview from her friend who is seen on the body cam begging for aid:

Quote:
Winchell watched as paramedics tried reviving Boyland but she died.

“I lost a dear, dear friend, an amazing friend,” he said.

Despite his loss, Winchell doesn’t believe President Trump bears any responsibility for his friend’s death or the three others killed during the riots, instead shifting the blame onto Antifa and other “instigators.”
https://www.cbs46.com/news/friend-of...b248f9815.html

Death cult.
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Old 29th January 2021, 09:20 AM   #2763
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was she wearing a "Don't tread on me" shirt?
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Old 29th January 2021, 09:56 AM   #2764
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Well played.
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Old 29th January 2021, 10:00 AM   #2765
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/28/u...-trampled.html

Body cam footage of the trampling death of Rosanne Boyland. She was crushed to death by her fellow mob members during the melee to forcibly enter the capitol.

From an interview from her friend who is seen on the body cam begging for aid:



https://www.cbs46.com/news/friend-of...b248f9815.html

Death cult.
Sickening scenes. Absolutely sickenlng.

Hurray for the advent of body cameras.
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Old 29th January 2021, 10:03 AM   #2766
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
was she wearing a "Don't tread on me" shirt?
Close. She was carrying a Gadsden flag.

https://www.rawstory.com/rosanne-boyland-capitol/
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Old 29th January 2021, 10:15 AM   #2767
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For those who ponder whether there is a God:

Originally Posted by TJM View Post
Close. She was carrying a Gadsden flag.

https://www.rawstory.com/rosanne-boyland-capitol/
...and He has a wicked sense of humor.
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Old 29th January 2021, 10:41 AM   #2768
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Originally Posted by TJM View Post
Close. She was carrying a Gadsden flag.

https://www.rawstory.com/rosanne-boyland-capitol/
some things are too true to be funny ...
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Old 29th January 2021, 11:12 AM   #2769
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FBI is saying that the two pipe bombs were planted the night before the riot. The reward has been raised to $100,000.
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Old 29th January 2021, 02:04 PM   #2770
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Originally Posted by TJM View Post
Close. She was carrying a Gadsden flag.

https://www.rawstory.com/rosanne-boyland-capitol/
My thought since the coup attempt... Craig Ferguson has the snake tattooed down his entire right arm. I wonder how sad he's felt since then about that iconic image.

Anyone has a chance, have a read of his funny (first?) auto bio "American on Purpose". Good stuff.
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Old 29th January 2021, 02:50 PM   #2771
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/28/u...-trampled.html

Body cam footage of the trampling death of Rosanne Boyland. She was crushed to death by her fellow mob members during the melee to forcibly enter the capitol.

From an interview from her friend who is seen on the body cam begging for aid:



https://www.cbs46.com/news/friend-of...b248f9815.html

Death cult.
Quote:
Rosanne Boyland, 34, and Justin Winchell drove to Washington, D.C., to hear President Trump speak at the ‘Save America Rally.’ When Trump urged his supporters to demonstrate outside the Capitol, where members of Congress were certifying President-elect Joe Biden’s election victory, the two friends followed.

“People were in there to start stuff, but it wasn’t supposed to be a violent event,” Winchell said.
...
“She was killed by an incited event and it was not incited by Trump supporters,” he told CBS46’ Zac Summers.
Morons.
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Old 29th January 2021, 05:49 PM   #2772
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Morons.
Yes and no. Not blaming Trump, yes.

But it is possible to get caught up in a riot you did not realize was going to happen.

Various versions of that have happened to me. The worst: I went to a Country Joe and the Fish concert long time ago. It was at the roller derby rink. Not long after we were there cops surrounded the outside of the audience ring. They would charge into the crowd and literally bust heads with their billy clubs when they saw people light up pot. They would drag one or two people out bleeding from the head. The crowd stood up and got quite scary. There was a video playing as part of the stage. When it showed pigs driving a cop car the audience laughed. This made the cops even more active cracking heads and dragging people out, the crowd stood, made a lot of noise.

I was scared to death there was going to be a stampede.

Then Joe MacDonald left the stage walking around the audience and inviting people to follow him up onto the stage. More and more people climbed on the stage and it collapsed. No one died, couple people had broken bones and there was the billy clubbing people's heads.

I felt relieved and lucky to have gotten out of there without being trampled.

I can see those two being in the wrong place when the rioters started attacking the cops. They might not have really been part of the melee.
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Old 29th January 2021, 06:58 PM   #2773
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Yes and no. Not blaming Trump, yes.

But it is possible to get caught up in a riot you did not realize was going to happen.

Various versions of that have happened to me. The worst: I went to a Country Joe and the Fish concert long time ago. It was at the roller derby rink. Not long after we were there cops surrounded the outside of the audience ring. They would charge into the crowd and literally bust heads with their billy clubs when they saw people light up pot. They would drag one or two people out bleeding from the head. The crowd stood up and got quite scary. There was a video playing as part of the stage. When it showed pigs driving a cop car the audience laughed. This made the cops even more active cracking heads and dragging people out, the crowd stood, made a lot of noise.

I was scared to death there was going to be a stampede.

Then Joe MacDonald left the stage walking around the audience and inviting people to follow him up onto the stage. More and more people climbed on the stage and it collapsed. No one died, couple people had broken bones and there was the billy clubbing people's heads.

I felt relieved and lucky to have gotten out of there without being trampled.

I can see those two being in the wrong place when the rioters started attacking the cops. They might not have really been part of the melee.
Well, I was referring more to the "“people were in there to start stuff, but it wasn’t supposed to be a violent event,” vs "an incited event and it was not incited by Trump supporters." If Trump supporters were there to "start stuff," it's kind of moronic to then turn around and blame "stuff" that happened on someone else, especially since there's no evidence to suggest anyone but Trump supporters started anything. Not to mention, it has that whiny ring of "somebody else's fault!" from folks whose party is supposedly the one of "personal responsibility."
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Old 29th January 2021, 07:16 PM   #2774
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Yes and no. Not blaming Trump, yes.

But it is possible to get caught up in a riot you did not realize was going to happen.

Various versions of that have happened to me. The worst: I went to a Country Joe and the Fish concert long time ago. It was at the roller derby rink. Not long after we were there cops surrounded the outside of the audience ring. They would charge into the crowd and literally bust heads with their billy clubs when they saw people light up pot. They would drag one or two people out bleeding from the head. The crowd stood up and got quite scary. There was a video playing as part of the stage. When it showed pigs driving a cop car the audience laughed. This made the cops even more active cracking heads and dragging people out, the crowd stood, made a lot of noise.

I was scared to death there was going to be a stampede.

Then Joe MacDonald left the stage walking around the audience and inviting people to follow him up onto the stage. More and more people climbed on the stage and it collapsed. No one died, couple people had broken bones and there was the billy clubbing people's heads.

I felt relieved and lucky to have gotten out of there without being trampled.

I can see those two being in the wrong place when the rioters started attacking the cops. They might not have really been part of the melee.
I can sort of understand the analogy, but if the performer invites you on to the stage, there's a bit more reason to be there, isn't there? The analogy completely falls apart on entry to the Capitol.

Of course I suppose we might have to make some allowance for stupidity too. The folks at the concert had no intention beyond being a little bit naughty and rowdy, and the cops were likely gratuitously porcomorphic as usual. I think it makes a difference whether the cops attack the people or the people attack the cops.

While I am sure some of the capital crowd thought they were just there to make a big noise, they ought to have realized at a certain point - like when they broke through the police lines and invaded the Capitol, and followed the people who were chanting "Hang Pence" and writing "Kill the Press" on the wall, and vandalizing the property, that this was not what they came for. Sorry but I think anyone who entered the Capitol building, and perhaps anyone who went beyond the foot of the steps, is prima facie an insurrectionist involved in an attempt to overthrow the government, and unless they can make a reasonable case that they couldn't get out of the way without being trampled, they should be pretty well out of luck.

I think, given the size of the crowd outside the Capitol, that even if some stayed out just because they couldn't get in, a fair number stayed outside where they belonged, and some turned away and left. Enough to make it difficult, I think, to pretend that doing so was difficult or exceptional.
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Old 29th January 2021, 10:18 PM   #2775
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
I can sort of understand the analogy, but if the performer invites you on to the stage, there's a bit more reason to be there, isn't there? The analogy completely falls apart on entry to the Capitol.

Of course I suppose we might have to make some allowance for stupidity too. The folks at the concert had no intention beyond being a little bit naughty and rowdy, and the cops were likely gratuitously porcomorphic as usual. I think it makes a difference whether the cops attack the people or the people attack the cops.

While I am sure some of the capital crowd thought they were just there to make a big noise, they ought to have realized at a certain point - like when they broke through the police lines and invaded the Capitol, and followed the people who were chanting "Hang Pence" and writing "Kill the Press" on the wall, and vandalizing the property, that this was not what they came for. Sorry but I think anyone who entered the Capitol building, and perhaps anyone who went beyond the foot of the steps, is prima facie an insurrectionist involved in an attempt to overthrow the government, and unless they can make a reasonable case that they couldn't get out of the way without being trampled, they should be pretty well out of luck.

I think, given the size of the crowd outside the Capitol, that even if some stayed out just because they couldn't get in, a fair number stayed outside where they belonged, and some turned away and left. Enough to make it difficult, I think, to pretend that doing so was difficult or exceptional.
The analogy wasn't about the stage collapsing. That was just the end of the event.

The analogy was finding yourself in the middle of a crowd that was seriously threatening to stampede. Scary as hell.

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Old 29th January 2021, 10:49 PM   #2776
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The analogy wasn't about the stage collapsing. That was just the end of the event.

The analogy was finding yourself in the middle of a crowd that was seriously threatening to stampede. Scary as hell.
I understand that, and it's clear there was an element of stampeding, but I just don't think that the same allowance for being caught up in it can apply to those who pushed through the police lines and stormed the Capitol and rampaged through it. A pretty large number of people seem to have avoided that level of involvement, and a pretty large number of people who did enter the Capitol did not appear to be making an effort to disengage from the action.

I'm sure there will be plenty of people trying to argue that they got caught up in the stampede, and let's hope for their sake that they can convince the authorities that that's the case, or present video evidence that they were doing their best not to join the mayhem. Good luck to them. I think it will be a hard case to make if they did not manage to get loose before they went in the doors of the Capitol.
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Old 30th January 2021, 12:26 AM   #2777
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to me it appears that they’re not going after anyone that didn’t have bad intentions
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Old 30th January 2021, 01:00 AM   #2778
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Re the woman trampled to death and her friend, I'm just leaving an open mind if the friend says they got trapped in the melee and weren't trying to be part of it, I'd think they had a case. If the guy says they were part of it, then that would be different.
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Old 30th January 2021, 01:03 AM   #2779
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
First rat gets the cheese. Someone will flip, just like the recent news that a person from the Michigan Militia plot to kidnap and murder the governor there. It was recently announced one of militia guys has flipped and is going State's evidence.
The FBI should have had an agent "goon" inside that group a couple of years. Somebody in the intelligence division fell down on the job.
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Old 30th January 2021, 01:14 AM   #2780
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
.....

I think, given the size of the crowd outside the Capitol, that even if some stayed out just because they couldn't get in, a fair number stayed outside where they belonged, and some turned away and left. Enough to make it difficult, I think, to pretend that doing so was difficult or exceptional.
I agree. In addition, they had to walk with the rest of the crowd two miles to the capitol where the riot began. I can't imagine that there wasn't a lot of incendiary talk along the way which would have been an early warning flag for anyone who just wanted to protest. Very little of the riot was spontaneous.
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Old 30th January 2021, 01:17 AM   #2781
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Re the woman trampled to death and her friend, I'm just leaving an open mind if the friend says they got trapped in the melee and weren't trying to be part of it, I'd think they had a case. If the guy says they were part of it, then that would be different.
If I'm not mistaken, the video shows them on the capitol steps. That means they were part of it no matter what the guy ties to claim afterward.
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Old 30th January 2021, 02:05 AM   #2782
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Re the woman trampled to death and her friend, I'm just leaving an open mind if the friend says they got trapped in the melee and weren't trying to be part of it, I'd think they had a case. If the guy says they were part of it, then that would be different.
Doubt it. They were clearly in on the action right at the front, being caught on police body cameras when four policemen were being dragged out onto the steps and beaten up with a hockey stick and crutches. These were not passive followers who got swept along. On being injured, the nearest place for first aid was that front door where the police let the friend in with the mortally wounded woman.
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Old 30th January 2021, 02:12 AM   #2783
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Yes and no. Not blaming Trump, yes.

But it is possible to get caught up in a riot you did not realize was going to happen.

Various versions of that have happened to me. The worst: I went to a Country Joe and the Fish concert long time ago. It was at the roller derby rink. Not long after we were there cops surrounded the outside of the audience ring. They would charge into the crowd and literally bust heads with their billy clubs when they saw people light up pot. They would drag one or two people out bleeding from the head. The crowd stood up and got quite scary. There was a video playing as part of the stage. When it showed pigs driving a cop car the audience laughed. This made the cops even more active cracking heads and dragging people out, the crowd stood, made a lot of noise.

I was scared to death there was going to be a stampede.

Then Joe MacDonald left the stage walking around the audience and inviting people to follow him up onto the stage. More and more people climbed on the stage and it collapsed. No one died, couple people had broken bones and there was the billy clubbing people's heads.

I felt relieved and lucky to have gotten out of there without being trampled.

I can see those two being in the wrong place when the rioters started attacking the cops. They might not have really been part of the melee.
I've been to many rock concerts and trouble would often break out at open air concerts, I don't recall any indoor ones, with gatecrashers, people pushing and general ill will. I've also been on many demonstrations and to sporting events. When trouble broke out it was very easy to avoid it. Especially at football matches, some of the fans up north are incredibly rough and would often start street brawls for no reason at all. You just avoid them. Cross the road, walk the other way. Or run.

The ones near the back at Capitol Hill would have been more the watchers and enablers whilst the ones at the front were undoubtedly the active participants.
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Old 30th January 2021, 02:18 AM   #2784
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It's reported today that the police officer who died, Brian Sicknick will 'lie in honor' at Capitol Hill.

Quote:
Brian Sicknick, a police officer who died during the pro-Trump siege of the US Capitol on 6 January, will lie in honour at the same location.

Sicknick 42, was injured while "physically engaging with protesters", police said. He died the following day.

He was one of five people to lose their lives in the riot, which led to Donald Trump's second impeachment.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer said he would lie in honour in the Capitol.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55866716


What does that mean? That his body lies in an open coffin until the funeral or that he will be buried there?

Is Capitol Hill consecrated ground?
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Old 30th January 2021, 02:38 AM   #2785
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It's reported today that the police officer who died, Brian Sicknick will 'lie in honor' at Capitol Hill.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55866716


What does that mean? That his body lies in an open coffin until the funeral or that he will be buried there?

Is Capitol Hill consecrated ground?
Open coffin? Perhaps, I suppose - but it does mean that his body and coffin will be kept there for some period of time for viewing - normally open to the public (COVID-19 is notably not normal), and usually for a few days maximum.

It's an honor usually reserved for presidents, military leaders, and "the unknown soldier" lost in various wars, along with a few highly respected congressmen (the most recent being veteran Sen. John McCain, and civil rights hero Rep. John Lewis) or civilians (Rosa Parks...Billy Graham I guess...).

I assuming this will be at the Rotunda, which means that everyone involved is expected to show the highest respect as well.

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Old 30th January 2021, 04:02 AM   #2786
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Capitol Rioter Recorded Herself Saying ‘We Were Looking’ for Nancy Pelosi to ‘Shoot Her in the Friggin’ Brain’: DOJ

*headdesk*
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Old 30th January 2021, 04:10 AM   #2787
Vixen
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
What is chilling are their laughing faces. Reminiscent of the Manson family: a sense of entitlement to do what they are doing and even filming it for posterity. The sheer number of females.
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Old 30th January 2021, 04:22 AM   #2788
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
It's reported today that the police officer who died, Brian Sicknick will 'lie in honor' at Capitol Hill.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55866716


What does that mean? That his body lies in an open coffin until the funeral or that he will be buried there?
....

No, no, it's the same as "lying in state" for an official. The closed coffin is displayed in the Rotunda, and people can pay respects. A high and rare honor.

Like for Sen. McCain:
https://www.voanews.com/usa/john-mcc...final-farewell

and Pres. Bush:
https://www.npr.org/2018/12/04/67322...-lies-in-state

Last edited by Bob001; 30th January 2021 at 04:25 AM.
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Old 30th January 2021, 04:33 AM   #2789
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Trump did not cause it! He merely brought the box of matches and threw it in the audience!

CNN
"President Trump did not cause the attack on the Capitol on January 6," freshman Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, the controversial Georgia Republican, told her supporters this week.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/29/polit...iot/index.html
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Old 30th January 2021, 05:01 AM   #2790
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Originally Posted by Tero View Post
Trump did not cause it! He merely brought the box of matches and threw it in the audience!

CNN
"President Trump did not cause the attack on the Capitol on January 6," freshman Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene, the controversial Georgia Republican, told her supporters this week.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/29/polit...iot/index.html
Did you see this sickening display of sisterhood between MTG and Katie Hopkins the day after the riots? Reassuring hand clasps in girlihood:

https://twitter.com/funder/status/13...958620160?s=20

Scott Dworkin:
Quote:
Here's Marjorie Taylor Greene the day after the Capitol riot saying "it was a hard thing we did yesterday, but I wouldn't do anything else. I wouldn't do anything else." This video is beyond disturbing.
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Old 30th January 2021, 05:31 AM   #2791
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Katie Hopkins was not familiar to me.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...d-from-twitter

aaand I can strike that out from list of people to even find out about.
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Old 30th January 2021, 09:43 AM   #2792
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
What is chilling are their laughing faces. Reminiscent of the Manson family: a sense of entitlement to do what they are doing and even filming it for posterity. The sheer number of females.
Exactly. They're (mostly) white men (the "lowest difficulty setting" of life) and of course they feel entitled to do whatever they want to maintain that privilege in the face of uppity women, gays and brown people.
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Old 30th January 2021, 09:51 AM   #2793
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
No, no, it's the same as "lying in state" for an official. The closed coffin is displayed in the Rotunda, and people can pay respects. A high and rare honor.

Like for Sen. McCain:
https://www.voanews.com/usa/john-mcc...final-farewell

and Pres. Bush:
https://www.npr.org/2018/12/04/67322...-lies-in-state
The dead officer was a big Trump supporter, according to most reports.
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Old 30th January 2021, 10:05 AM   #2794
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
The dead officer was a big Trump supporter, according to most reports.
And it was Trump supporters who viciously murdered him.

Seems like a good group of people.
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Old 30th January 2021, 10:08 AM   #2795
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
The dead officer was a big Trump supporter, according to most reports.
Regrettably, so are 77 million+ other Americans. But apparently he wasn't crazy about it. He sure didn't deserve what happened to him.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ic/6595549002/
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Old 30th January 2021, 10:10 AM   #2796
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
And it was Trump supporters who viciously murdered him.

Seems like a good group of people.

There is nothing unlawful about someone being a Trump supporter. What is wrong is a Trump supporter indulging in violent and seditious behaviour.


It's no surprise that people in the armed forces and the quasi-military, such as the police tend to be more right wing leaning than average, given the training of loyalty to the state drilled into them. In the UK they all swear an oath of allegiance to the Queen.
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Old 30th January 2021, 10:22 AM   #2797
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
And it was Trump supporters who viciously murdered him.

Seems like a good group of people.
At least one of them able to give an object lesson in the ability to adhere to a principle, in spite of personal opinion.

Should have a statue built, so that it can be torn down later.
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Old 30th January 2021, 11:48 AM   #2798
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Originally Posted by Distracted1 View Post
At least one of them able to give an object lesson in the ability to adhere to a principle, in spite of personal opinion.
Sadly ironic that one of the rare examples of a Trump supporter who was also a decent person was murdered by the treasonous rabble with whom he chose to associate. One wonders if he would have rethought his political position had he survived the brutal attack that Trump aimed at him.

Quote:
Should have a statue built, so that it can be torn down later.
And if the government doesn’t agree to build a statue in his honor, storming the Capitol in a murderous rampage and beating cops to death is always an option.
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Old 30th January 2021, 12:17 PM   #2799
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Morons.
"People were in there to start stuff, but it wasn’t supposed to be a violent even" is really prime.
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Old 30th January 2021, 12:23 PM   #2800
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Open coffin? Perhaps, I suppose - but it does mean that his body and coffin will be kept there for some period of time for viewing - normally open to the public (COVID-19 is notably not normal), and usually for a few days maximum.

It's an honor usually reserved for presidents, military leaders, and "the unknown soldier" lost in various wars, along with a few highly respected congressmen (the most recent being veteran Sen. John McCain, and civil rights hero Rep. John Lewis) or civilians (Rosa Parks...Billy Graham I guess...).

I assuming this will be at the Rotunda, which means that everyone involved is expected to show the highest respect as well.
They is a precedent for honoring Capitol police fallen in the line of duty:'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_U...pitol_shooting

I wonder why it took so long. My own betting is some GOP are opposed since they seem to want to make before forget this ever happened to please Dear Leader.
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