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Old Yesterday, 02:28 AM   #2361
Emre_1974tr
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
Hm, Emre chose not to comment about innocent infants being horribly destroyed in natural disasters.

Is this a sort of not fighting a battle you are bound to lose?
I have already explained these issues in my articles I have linked.

Allah knows what you would do even if you were tested forever.

By the way, everyone will die. He went straight to paradise.

If a person is perfect, he is not created in this world at all, he is created directly in paradise. God already knows what you choose of your own free will.

Even the best person in this world is actually more or less problematic. That's why he was first created in this universe. Otherwise, he would have been created from the very beginning in the hereafter universe called the Lord's Floor.

Please read my articles.

Last edited by Emre_1974tr; Yesterday at 02:47 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 04:41 AM   #2362
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
I have already explained these issues in my articles I have linked.

Allah knows what you would do even if you were tested forever.

By the way, everyone will die. He went straight to paradise.

If a person is perfect, he is not created in this world at all, he is created directly in paradise. God already knows what you choose of your own free will.

Even the best person in this world is actually more or less problematic. That's why he was first created in this universe. Otherwise, he would have been created from the very beginning in the hereafter universe called the Lord's Floor.

Please read my articles.
Again, this is utter nonsense. It does not even make sense of itself. Not forgetting that you fail to answer questions, and do not respond to comments. Mostly you quote yourself. This is spamming, Emre. Please stop it before you get in trouble.
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Old Yesterday, 04:49 AM   #2363
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Even the best person in this world is actually more or less problematic.

As George Carlin said, "results like these do not belong on the resume of a supreme being."
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Old Yesterday, 04:55 AM   #2364
steenkh
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The Qur'an corrects the mistakes of the false Injil/Torah

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
I have already explained these issues in my articles I have linked.

Allah knows what you would do even if you were tested forever.

By the way, everyone will die. He went straight to paradise.

If a person is perfect, he is not created in this world at all, he is created directly in paradise. God already knows what you choose of your own free will.

Even the best person in this world is actually more or less problematic. That's why he was first created in this universe. Otherwise, he would have been created from the very beginning in the hereafter universe called the Lord's Floor.

Please read my articles.
No, thank you. I have more than enough of your opinions here on this forum.

But I gather from your comments that Allah knows that the babies will turn into wicked beings, and that he punishes them even before they have a chance exercise their free will, and do something evil.

I do understand why you prefer to lead us to a third-party web site, rather than tell us your idea right here.

I also note that your god is not only evil, but also unjust. But hey, he makes the rules, and he decides what what is good, and what is bad, right?

ETA: I have had this discussion with Christian fanatics too, and they ended up in the same corner. It makes the whole point of life on Earth pointless, because this god could just populate heaven and hell directly without having people live their lives of misery on Earth. But he seems to like imposing natural disasters and suffering on humanity.
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Last edited by steenkh; Yesterday at 04:58 AM.
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Old Yesterday, 08:16 AM   #2365
Emre_1974tr
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
No, thank you. I have more than enough of your opinions he.
1- All the links I have given are my articles. I do not direct to another site, I link to my article as per the rules of this forum.

2- You continue to ask such questions because you have not read my writings. I explain these very issues in my articles. God creates only perfectly good people directly in paradise.
The good people created on earth have some imperfections and they pay for it by suffering in this world. And the bad people created in this world may have some virtues and they are rewarded for that by enjoying some blessings in this world. The wicked also face themselves in this world and realise why they are going to hell. So they have no right to object in the hereafter.
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Old Yesterday, 08:20 AM   #2366
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- All the links I have given are my articles. I do not direct to another site, I link to my article as per the rules of this forum.

2- You continue to ask such questions because you have not read my writings. I explain these very issues in my articles. God creates only perfectly good people directly in paradise.
The good people created on earth have some imperfections and they pay for it by suffering in this world. And the bad people created in this world may have some virtues and they are rewarded for that by enjoying some blessings in this world. The wicked also face themselves in this world and realise why they are going to hell. So they have no right to object in the hereafter.
If your "articles" explain things as you have explained them here then reading them would be futile. If you wish to have a discussion here then do so. Otherwise stop wasting everyone's time
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Old Yesterday, 08:52 AM   #2367
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
All the links I have given are my articles. I do not direct to another site, I link to my article as per the rules of this forum.
It's suspicious that you really, really want us to go read what you've written at another forum. If you want to discuss your claims about Islam with the people in this forum, write them in this forum.

Quote:
You continue to ask such questions because you have not read my writings.
False. I have read many of your articles. They're absolute rubbish. They're just longer, more tedious versions of the same logical and doctrinal errors you're making here.

And it's also wrong to say the reason we're questioning you here is because we haven't read them. We're asking you questions to challenge the claims you've made in this forum. It's not that we don't know what your claims are. We do. It's that we don't agree with your claims and are asking you questions to illustrate that disagreement, give reasons for it, and see whether you're intellectually honest enough to engage in a real conversation.

When you're so very desperate to drive traffic to an external site instead, we suspect your motives.
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Old Yesterday, 09:00 AM   #2368
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
The good people created on earth have some imperfections and they pay for it by suffering in this world. And the bad people created in this world may have some virtues and they are rewarded for that by enjoying some blessings in this world. The wicked also face themselves in this world and realise why they are going to hell. So they have no right to object in the hereafter.

Pretty unpleasant character, this god of yours.
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Old Yesterday, 09:07 AM   #2369
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
1- All the links I have given are my articles. I do not direct to another site, I link to my article as per the rules of this forum.

2- You continue to ask such questions because you have not read my writings. I explain these very issues in my articles. God creates only perfectly good people directly in paradise.
The good people created on earth have some imperfections and they pay for it by suffering in this world. And the bad people created in this world may have some virtues and they are rewarded for that by enjoying some blessings in this world. The wicked also face themselves in this world and realise why they are going to hell. So they have no right to object in the hereafter.
So, in your words, the abomination you worship can and does create people in a place there is no suffering at all, but actively chooses to not do so with this world and then punishes his creations for the flaws it intentionally introduces.

Nice. Why is such a horror worth worship?
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Old Yesterday, 09:31 AM   #2370
Emre_1974tr
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
So, in your words, the abomination you worship can and does create people?
No, you choose evil of your own free will. God doesn't make you problematic. He knows what you will choose even before He creates you, so you are created in the universe you deserve.
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Old Yesterday, 10:00 AM   #2371
JayUtah
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Allah knows what you would do even if you were tested forever.

By the way, everyone will die. He went straight to paradise.

If a person is perfect, he is not created in this world at all, he is created directly in paradise. God already knows what you choose of your own free will.
But the baby isn't tested forever, and didn't do any of the things that might have occurred had he lived longer. If the baby was predestined to die as a baby, then it doesn't matter what other alternative outcomes one could think of. You're now telling us that God will judge us and allow or impose consequences either according to what we actually did, which—according to you—is inevitable, or according to what he knows would have happened should some cherry-picked circumstance hypothetically have been different—of which there are an infinite number.

This is a tautology. If the wicked can't escape punishment because they did punishable things, why can we not imagine an alternate outcome for them, given different circumstances, in which they didn't do punishable things? If a teenager who tortures animals for fun is killed early in life and punished for his evil, why can't we say that in a hypothetical later life he may have repented and become a respected imam? See, we can play those games all day.

You haven't really thought about this. You're just winging it and making up ad hoc rules to get around the obvious core contradictions in your beliefs.

You wrote
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Suffering in this world serves a similar purpose as suffering in hell. To give everyone what they deserve. The pleasures of this world and paradise serve the same purpose. To give you what you deserve
Regardless of whether the baby's soul went straight to paradise after death, the baby suffered a horrible death in this life at the hands of Allah. You're telling us the baby got what he deserved because that's what suffering in this world is for. That the baby wasn't punished in the afterlife doesn't address the obvious absurdity of your theory for his suffering in this life. If the innocent can be punished in this life undeservedly, but then compensated in the afterlife, then suffering doesn't play the role in this life that you say it does. If predestination can include unrealized hypotheticals, then that cuts both ways.

And no, the article you linked in that post doesn't answer the challenge. It just restates—at absurdly tedious length—the same dilemma without resolving it according to the issues I've raised. Think more, write less.

Quote:
Please read my articles.
Please think about the subjects before you write them. You don't understand Islam, which is likely why the other Muslims at the forum where you have written your articles won't often engage you. You don't understand that larger issues of religion and philosophy in which Islam lives. You don't understand logic or basic critical thinking. The people in this forum can help you with that. But if you approach the subjects from the position of believing you know everything already, people will either mock you or ignore you. They won't simply agree that you're a skilled theologian.
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Old Yesterday, 10:04 AM   #2372
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, you choose evil of your own free will. God doesn't make you problematic. He knows what you will choose even before He creates you, so you are created in the universe you deserve.
You're not answering the questions. You're just restating the problematic propositions over and over again as if you don't understand the problem. And no, your articles do not answer the questions. They just restate the problematic statements at annoyingly tedious length.

You don't seem to understand how predestination works in Islam. You don't seem to understand what "free will" actually means. You seem to have simply bought into the common gloss in Islam that free will simply means whatever you need it to mean in order to resolve what Islam admits is an inherent contradiction that only Allah can properly understand.
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Old Yesterday, 10:20 AM   #2373
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
I have already explained these issues in my articles I have linked.

Allah knows what you would do even if you were tested forever.

By the way, everyone will die. He went straight to paradise.

If a person is perfect, he is not created in this world at all, he is created directly in paradise. God already knows what you choose of your own free will.

Even the best person in this world is actually more or less problematic. That's why he was first created in this universe. Otherwise, he would have been created from the very beginning in the hereafter universe called the Lord's Floor.

Please read my articles.

Again... cluelessly... you think you are "explaining" Allah... and all you are doing is exposing how much of a sadistic mephitic putrid filth he is.

Sorry man... but your "articles" and your posts... all... serve nothing more than to obliviously show the extent of stench and grotesque filth that is the concept of a God your Allah is.

Let me ask you a question... what do you think should be done to an engineer who deliberately makes a machine he knows for sure before he makes it, that it is going to cripple its users when they use it??

What do you call a person who makes harmful things and sits and watches while people are getting harmed by the things he made?

What you are describing is a monstrous sadistic criminal... and you are calling this villain your Allah and trying to threaten us that unless we kiss his mephitic orifice like you, he will do further sadistic crimes on us for refusing to swallow the filth that you're peddling on behalf of this celestial brigand you are hawking.

Your Allah is nothing but a pathetic meaningless cesspool of disgusting filth and pernicious garbage... according to the propaganda you are pushing and proselytizing.

No one is falling for your 1400 years old desert feces that you are trying to peddle as your Allah...

If your Allah were real and he were not the sewage you are flushing out he would make you stop slandering his reputation the way you are.

So the fact that he is not stopping you from demonstrating how much of a disgusting fetid feces he is, is proof that he is indeed nothing more than a sadistic villainous scum... or he does not exist.

So thanks for persistently making sure that people understand that fact... but I am not sure you appreciate that this is all you are doing.



.
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Old Yesterday, 01:27 PM   #2374
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
No, you choose evil of your own free will. God doesn't make you problematic. He knows what you will choose even before He creates you, so you are created in the universe you deserve.
Why does he create the evil persons in the first place. Are you telling us that your all-powerful god cannot choose what he creates? Why kill evil babies instead of choosing not to create them at all?

Does your god get pleasure out of torturing people? Perhaps he creates humans in order to have somebody to punish, but he doesn’t want to punish good people, so he also needed to create heaven for those?
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Old Yesterday, 01:38 PM   #2375
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Men create gods in their own image.
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Old Yesterday, 02:27 PM   #2376
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
It is not inevitable.
If God knows exactly what you will do, how is that not the very definition of inevitable?
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Old Yesterday, 02:34 PM   #2377
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Explains a lot

Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Men create gods in their own image.
Men also create gods in their own imagination.
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