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Old 18th October 2020, 01:43 AM   #881
Lukraak_Sisser
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Given all three yesses, can you then explain why the discharge (removing negative charge) moves AWAY from the direction it should?

After all, in an electric system negative charge will move FROM the negative pole (the comet) TO the positive pole (the Sun). This is basic electricity, pretty simple stuff. But beyond the limited tool box of EC apparently.

You keep mentioning fluff words, but refuse to explain why in the ELECTRIC comet system electricity behaves the opposite way from every electric system ever.
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Old 18th October 2020, 02:04 AM   #882
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Given all three yesses, can you then explain why the discharge (removing negative charge) moves AWAY from the direction it should?

After all, in an electric system negative charge will move FROM the negative pole (the comet) TO the positive pole (the Sun). This is basic electricity, pretty simple stuff. But beyond the limited tool box of EC apparently.

You keep mentioning fluff words, but refuse to explain why in the ELECTRIC comet system electricity behaves the opposite way from every electric system ever.
Yawn.....

Quote:
jonesdave116
Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Where does the Sun’s plasma start and finish?
The Sun. to The heliopause. Duh!
You up to speed on Birkeland current, flux ropes, field aligned currents?

or you still a pithball sorta electricity person?

If not, best ya brush up...Birkeland Currents: A Force-Free Field-Aligned Model

Quote:
Fig. 3:

Cross-section of a force-free current. In this view the reader is looking in the +z-direction, in the direction of main cur- rent flow. The radius values shown are plotted as values of r = x/α (α = 0.075), which were used in the Euler iterative solution of (36) and (37). At the radius values shown, the axial B-field is zero-valued so the total field is only azimuthal (either clockwise or counter- clockwise circles).
This is seen in the Uyless data.

as per my post...
Quote:
Quote:
"If it can persist as far as Ulysses, there's no reason to presume that it wouldn't continue to the edge of the heliosphere (the boundary about 100AU from the Sun between the solar wind and the interstellar medium)," says Jones.
Ulysses feels the brush of a comet's tail
Best not to be so ignorant, don't ya think?
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Old 18th October 2020, 02:09 AM   #883
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In case you missed it.
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

“The 'electric comet' is physically IMPOSSIBLE to model using mainstream science! PERIOD! True story! End of story!” Indagator

Last edited by Sol88; 18th October 2020 at 02:12 AM.
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Old 18th October 2020, 02:17 AM   #884
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Given all three yesses, can you then explain why the discharge (removing negative charge) moves AWAY from the direction it should?

After all, in an electric system negative charge will move FROM the negative pole (the comet) TO the positive pole (the Sun). This is basic electricity, pretty simple stuff. But beyond the limited tool box of EC apparently.

You keep mentioning fluff words, but refuse to explain why in the ELECTRIC comet system electricity behaves the opposite way from every electric system ever.

How do you think it works?

Considering the sublimation model, the mainstream model, is a bust?

As per

2 THE NUCLEUS SHAPE
3 A HIGH DUST-TO-WATER RATIO
4 ACTIVE AREAS HARD TO FIND
5 NO DISTRIBUTED WATER SOURCES
6 SEASONS DRIVE ACTUAL ACTIVITY
7 THERMO-PHYSICAL MODELS FAIL
11 CONCLUSIONS

Have you even bothered to read the paper?
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Old 18th October 2020, 03:25 AM   #885
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Ah, so the EC model works with magic words that can make electricity behave differently in outer space (except when our machines are in outer space or are measuring things in outer space), which has never been reproduced in any way, shape or form.

Check.
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Old 18th October 2020, 03:48 AM   #886
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Originally Posted by Lukraak_Sisser View Post
Ah, so the EC model works with magic words that can make electricity behave differently in outer space (except when our machines are in outer space or are measuring things in outer space), which has never been reproduced in any way, shape or form.

Check.
Ok, if ya say so.

You can only lead a horse to water...
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Old 18th October 2020, 04:01 AM   #887
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Ummmmm......Active asteroid Bennu is.
You are so predictable. I have previously noted that if I forgot to mention that the tail should be visible like a comet’s tail, you would pounce on it, and act as if “active” asteroids have tails. And of course you did, thereby avoiding the difficult answer for the second time since I started counting. Suits me right for forgetting the word “visible”!

Quote:
Fairly obvious even to the more simple amongst us that asteroid and comets are a continuum.
That is indeed fairly obvious. Mainstream science has known this for a long time. But whereas mainstream science knows that it is the amount of ice that determines if there is a - visible - tail, you have absolutely no idea what is at the ends of this continuum.

Quote:
Besides composition, which can vary, so can the charge it exchanges with the ambient plasma

Some asteroids are in equilibrium with the surrounding plasma, some not.
But you claim that they are both rocky bodies with no ice, so just why are some “in equilibrium” and others are not? Have you, and the rest of your sect, really never considered this? (You admitted previously that it was an important question, but you seem not to give it much thought)
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Old 18th October 2020, 04:11 AM   #888
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
You are so predictable. I have previously noted that if I forgot to mention that the tail should be visible like a comet’s tail, you would pounce on it, and act as if “active” asteroids have tails. And of course you did, thereby avoiding the difficult answer for the second time since I started counting. Suits me right for forgetting the word “visible”!


That is indeed fairly obvious. Mainstream science has known this for a long time. But whereas mainstream science knows that it is the amount of ice that determines if there is a - visible - tail, you have absolutely no idea what is at the ends of this continuum.


But you claim that they are both rocky bodies with no ice, so just why are some “in equilibrium” and others are not? Have you, and the rest of your sect, really never considered this? (You admitted previously that it was an important question, but you seem not to give it much thought)

There ya go

Quote:
amount of ice that determines if there is a - visible - tail,
How, considering your model the Dirtysnowball is a fail?

Amaze me, go on!

Remember,

Quote:
This may make comets and KBOs less rich in water than CI-chondrites, which have a Refractory-to-Water mass ratio close to 5.5 (Marty et al. 2016) and the water included in minerals, which is not the case for the 67P dust (Schulz et al. 2015). This constraint confirms that comets can be defined as “mineral organices” (Fulle et al. 2016b), i.e. a mixture of minerals and organics with a minor mass fraction of ices mixed among them, and provides a disentangling test for all models describing the (probably common) origin of comets and KBOs.
The Refractory-to-Ice Mass Ratio in Comets

Further;

Quote:
Even if the nucleus were composed of pure ice from a depth of 1.5 cm downwards, the entire surface of 67P would release a negligible water fraction of that observed (Gulkis et al. 2015; Keller et al. 2015b). This proves that all the water-vapour is coming from the uppermost surface layer thinner than 1 cm, i.e. the size of the largest pebbles ejected at 3.6 au inbound (Rotundi et al. 2015), and a factor of 100 thinner than the metre-sized chunks ejected at perihelion (Fulle et al. 2016). This fact further suggests that a force independent of vapour pressure is breaking the link between dust and the nucleus surface, after which the dust is accelerated in the coma by vapour drag.
Please take note of the title

Unexpected and significant findings in comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko: an interdisciplinary view

Unexpected from a Dirtysnowball model falsified that model.
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Old 18th October 2020, 04:19 AM   #889
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Steenkh,

Is the tail of a comet just gas? From all the ice.
Any dust?


Quote:
At the simplest level, a very basic question is whether comets are mostly ice or mostly rock/dirt/refractory material. Whipple’s [2] model of the dirty snowball, the first quantitative model, envisioned cometary nuclei as mostly ice, although our understanding has been evolving more toward mostly rock, particularly for 67P/C-G for which refractory/volatile ratios as high as 6 have been cited
M.A’Hearn

Steenkh, I take it you can read a dictionary? Look up evolving.
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Last edited by Sol88; 18th October 2020 at 04:54 AM.
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Old 18th October 2020, 05:48 AM   #890
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
How do you think it works?

Considering the sublimation model, the mainstream model, is a bust?

As per

2 THE NUCLEUS SHAPE
3 A HIGH DUST-TO-WATER RATIO
4 ACTIVE AREAS HARD TO FIND
5 NO DISTRIBUTED WATER SOURCES
6 SEASONS DRIVE ACTUAL ACTIVITY
7 THERMO-PHYSICAL MODELS FAIL
11 CONCLUSIONS

Have you even bothered to read the paper?
The paper has nothing to do with your failed woo. Try to stick to your failed woo. Which is the subject of this thread. Found any rock yet? Any discharges? Any EDM (lol)? No. So your woo has failed. Goodbye.
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Old 18th October 2020, 05:50 AM   #891
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Steenkh,

Is the tail of a comet just gas? From all the ice.
Any dust?


M.A’Hearn

Steenkh, I take it you can read a dictionary? Look up evolving.
Stop lying. No rock ever seen at a comet. And you have had plenty of opportunity to show evidence for it. You can't. All you can do is continually lie and obfuscate. Because science is beyond you.
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Old 18th October 2020, 05:51 AM   #892
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Quote:
Unexpected from a Dirtysnowball model falsified that model.
That is your own strawman, liar. Stop lying. It is pathetic.
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Old 18th October 2020, 05:56 AM   #893
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Quote:
Where does the Sun’s plasma start and finish?
The Sun. to The heliopause. Duh!
Yes, and that is a quasi-neutral plasma. Get it through your thick head that in your impossible woo the Sun is an anode. Do you know what an anode is? And what it attracts? And what it repels? So, if the cometary material is negative, which way should it be going? Duh! The same way as your non-existent current to power the scientifically impossible electric sun. Yes? And which way is that? This is like trying to teach QM to a chimp. A rather dim chimp, at that.
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Old 18th October 2020, 06:01 AM   #894
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Ok, if ya say so.

You can only lead a horse to water...
And yet you keep walking away from the stream.

Because, as I've mentioned before, if your plasma birkeland freeform fields would work, you'd be unmentionably rich as you'd revolutionize all electrical appliances everywhere.

So until you can actually PROVE that it is possible to make a discharge take a path away from the expected one, your theory hasn't got a leg to stand on.
I await eagerly the actual experimental evidence. Because even your vaunted SAFIRE cannot do what you claim.
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Old 18th October 2020, 06:02 AM   #895
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post

The comet nucleus is less positive than the surrounding ambient plasma. The comets seeks to reach potential equilibrium with the surrounding plasma.
Lol. The surrounding plasma is quasi-neutral. Fail. And there is no charge worth talking about on the comet. We might have noticed that. We did land on it, after all. Fail. And the solar wind is cut off from the nucleus for many months. Fail. And asteroids are permanently subjected to this plasma woo, and are not turning into comets. Fail.

Quote:
Unfortunately, it’s elliptical orbit consistently moves thru vary charge space effects of the solar plasma, never quite reaching equilibrium.
Hahahaha! There is no varying charge. The solar wind is quasi-neutral at 1 AU, and is still quasi-neutral at 100 AU. Fail. And asteroids on cometary orbits are not turning into comets. And you can't explain why. Fail.

Quote:
Pretty basic stuff but beyond the limited tool box of a Dirtysnowball.
Nope, scientifically impossible gibberish, invented by scientifically illiterate mythologists. Fail.
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Old 18th October 2020, 06:08 AM   #896
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Jonesdave116, now try not to be to embarrassed.

How in your, obviously better understanding of the relevant science’s than mine, do cometary “jets” work?

Prediction for the lurkers, he (mainstream) doesn’t know.

So expect a rant based on myth....
They work as they are seen to work at the comet and in the lab. Due to sublimation (observed) entraining dust (observed) and sometimes ice (observed). Do try to keep up.
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Old 18th October 2020, 06:13 AM   #897
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Quote:
Strawman.

You have no idea and nether do I.
Yes I do. Because I have read your woo. It is most definitely based on mythology woo. As plainly stated by the idiots Thornhill and Talbott. Your impossible lightning bolts come from Venus doing handbrake turns around the solar system, and getting too close to Earth and Mars. So close, that all three planets would have been turned into molten slag heaps. Something that we might have noticed, even if the cause didn't violate the laws of physics.
You believe in mythology-based woo, whether you realise it or not. Whatever you believe, it has nothing to do with science. Which is why it only attracts people who don't understand science. Like you.
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Old 18th October 2020, 06:17 AM   #898
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Quote:
Besides composition, which can vary, so can the charge it exchanges with the ambient plasma

Some asteroids are in equilibrium with the surrounding plasma, some not.
And the tiny few that are seen to be active are in the main belt, on ~ circular orbits. However, the ones on the same orbits as comets are not seen to be active. Weird, huh? And you can't explain why. Due to not understanding any relevant science.
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Old 18th October 2020, 06:21 AM   #899
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Quote:
Dirtysnowballs, where the ice? In your incorrect assumption, that’s where...
Liar. One, the dirty snowball has been dead for decades, as has been pointed out to you numerous times. However, you continue to lie about it. Due to being a liar. And secondly, there is plenty of ice. Which has been documented numerous times. And you just keep ignoring it, and continue to lie. Due to being a liar with no understanding of even basic science.
All you have is lies and obfuscation. You have no science, no mechanisms and no evidence.
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Old 18th October 2020, 06:24 AM   #900
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Quote:
Comets are charged rocky bodies discharging in the solar plasma.
Liar. Continuing to lie about something is not going to make it come true. No rock, no discharges. No EDM (lol). If it's there, show us the detections, or stop lying. Simple, yes? My guess? You are incapable of stopping lying. It is all you have left. Rather pathetic, yes?
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Old 18th October 2020, 12:04 PM   #901
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Liar. One, the dirty snowball has been dead for decades, as has been pointed out to you numerous times. However, you continue to lie about it. Due to being a liar. And secondly, there is plenty of ice. Which has been documented numerous times. And you just keep ignoring it, and continue to lie. Due to being a liar with no understanding of even basic science.
All you have is lies and obfuscation. You have no science, no mechanisms and no evidence.
Dead ya reckon?

Well I think you and steenkh should sit down and have a chat.

See if you can at least be consistent.

Quote:
That is indeed fairly obvious. Mainstream science has known this for a long time. But whereas mainstream science knows that it is the amount of ice that determines if there is a - visible - tail, you have absolutely no idea what is at the ends of this continuum.
Of a dead Dirtysnowball model...

In the mainstreams blinkered, view. There is a difference between comets and asteroids.

And it’s all about the mythical ice!

So, jonesdave116, what model is the correct model?

Considering mainstream peer reviewed papers indeed assign more water to rocky asteroids than icy comets?




Quote:
At the simplest level, a very basic question is whether comets are mostly ice or mostly rock/dirt/refractory material. Whipple’s [2] model of the dirty snowball, the first quantitative model, envisioned cometary nuclei as mostly ice, although our understanding has been evolving more toward mostly rock, particularly for 67P/C-G for which refractory/volatile ratios as high as 6 have been cited [3,4]
Good onya’s.

Quote:
How dust can leave the nucleus surface is still not understood (Gundlach et al. 2015).
Unexpected and significant findings in comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko: an interdisciplinary view

Really? With all those experts including the arm chair variety here?

Best get ya act together, jonesdave116.
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Old 18th October 2020, 12:21 PM   #902
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I’ll give ya tip.

The dust is charged and being electrostaticly blown of the surface.

This constitutes and ELECTRIC CURRENT. A discharge from the nucleus to the Sun (solar plasma)

This is how the comet loses mass, as per
Quote:
V. MASS LOSS DUE TO ELECTROSTATIC BLOW-OFF

Let us next consider the total mass loss from a long period comet traversing the region of the supersonic solar wind (¿/<70 AU). This is difficult to calculate accurately because the escaping charged grains them- selves constitute a current, and a proper calculation of the mass loss rate.
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Old 18th October 2020, 12:26 PM   #903
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The rest is jonesdave116 pathetic attempt at setting up strawmen.

Liar, liar pants on fire.... grown up, mate.

Comets AND asteroids are rocky objects exchanging charge with the solar plasma.

Quote:
All objects in space exchange charge with their surroundings, mainly due to the collection of charged particles impacting the object and emission of electrons via the photoelectric effect and secondary emission.
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Old 18th October 2020, 02:17 PM   #904
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Talking about mythology and religion....


What a tangled mess
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Old 18th October 2020, 03:10 PM   #905
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Yes I do. Because I have read your woo. It is most definitely based on mythology woo. As plainly stated by the idiots Thornhill and Talbott. Your impossible lightning bolts come from Venus doing handbrake turns around the solar system, and getting too close to Earth and Mars. So close, that all three planets would have been turned into molten slag heaps. Something that we might have noticed, even if the cause didn't violate the laws of physics.
You believe in mythology-based woo, whether you realise it or not. Whatever you believe, it has nothing to do with science. Which is why it only attracts people who don't understand science. Like you.
Shall we start a thread on Immanuel Velikovsky

This thread is about the ELECTRIC COMET. Not it’s origins or history.

Comets are charged rocky bodies discharging in the solar plasma.

I don’t and neither do you, have any idea where they came from.

The Rosetta mission blew the Dirtysnowball out of the water, as you state jonesdave116.

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Old 18th October 2020, 03:12 PM   #906
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Liar. One, the dirty snowball has been dead for decades, as has been pointed out to you numerous times. However, you continue to lie about it. Due to being a liar. And secondly, there is plenty of ice. Which has been documented numerous times. And you just keep ignoring it, and continue to lie. Due to being a liar with no understanding of even basic science.
All you have is lies and obfuscation. You have no science, no mechanisms and no evidence.
Talking about obfuscation, which model are the mainstream using now then, jonesdave116?

Is that crickets I can hear from you again...

No answer is an admission from you that both the Dirtysnowball model is a failure and mainstream have no viable model.
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Last edited by Sol88; 18th October 2020 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 18th October 2020, 06:40 PM   #907
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Quote:
The big, black, roundish, carbon-rich space rock—taller than New York's Empire State Building—was around when our solar system was forming 4.5 billion years ago. Scientists consider it a time capsule full of pristine building blocks that could help explain how life formed on Earth and possibly elsewhere.
Rocky Asteroid Bennu

Pristine building blocks of how life formed on Earth?

Quote:
Comets are pristine remnants from the formation of the solar system that are comprised of minerals, rock and mostly ice, much like a dirty snowball.
comets

Steenkh, what’s the difference between a comet and an asteroid, again?
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“No rock. Any charge separation is limited. The electric field is pointing in the wrong direction. Currents are doing nothing.” Jonesdave116.

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Old 18th October 2020, 09:53 PM   #908
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
There ya go



How, considering your model the Dirtysnowball is a fail?

Amaze me, go on!

Remember,

The Refractory-to-Ice Mass Ratio in Comets

Further;



Please take note of the title

Unexpected and significant findings in comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko: an interdisciplinary view

Unexpected from a Dirtysnowball model falsified that model.

Yet another post bringing irrelevant criticism of mainstream science instead of addressing why there are differences between comets and asteroids when your religion tells us that they are the same. That would be non-answer number 4. Keep it up!
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Old 18th October 2020, 09:54 PM   #909
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Steenkh,

Is the tail of a comet just gas? From all the ice.
Any dust?


M.A’Hearn

Steenkh, I take it you can read a dictionary? Look up evolving.

Number 5! You certainly must have a problem when you so diligently want to avoid discussing it.
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Old 18th October 2020, 09:57 PM   #910
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Rocky Asteroid Bennu

Pristine building blocks of how life formed on Earth?

comets

Steenkh, what’s the difference between a comet and an asteroid, again?

You tell me! In your religion they are the same, but cannot explain why they look different.
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Old Yesterday, 12:00 AM   #911
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For no reason whatsoever, I throw in this image of comet 21P/Giacobini-Zinner, taken from a ground based telescope in the H2O+ bandpass at 7025 Ångström, with superposed the projected magnetic field data from ICE.



Image taken from Slavin et al. [1986].
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Old Today, 04:55 AM   #912
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Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
You tell me! In your religion they are the same, but cannot explain why they look different.
Bunny pictures allowed now tusenfem?

Nice cross section of a Birkeland current, as described by Don Scott.



Anyhoo, steenkh, take note. That is a cometary tail. If we fly the same instruments “down wind” of, especially an active asteroid though any obstacle to the solar wind will set up an electric field.

This, depending on various factors will produce a “tail” on all charged rocky bodies discharging in the solar plasma.

Ice or no...
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Old Today, 05:53 AM   #913
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Nice cross section of a Birkeland current, as described by Don Scott.
How can that be a Birkeland current????
It is a cross tail current, perpendicular to the magnetic field, separating the differently directed magnetic fields in either hemisphere of the tail.
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Old Today, 12:44 PM   #914
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Originally Posted by SDG View Post
It appears to me that a comet could resemble a Langmuir probe in a plasma discharge. ...
That is wrong, SDG.
A Langmuir probe is a scientific instrument.
Plasmas do not discharge because they have high conductivity. They have currents.
Comets are made of ice and dust that by itself is electrically neutral. They do not perturb EM fields. One of Sol88's many lies is that the mainstream prediction of the solar wind electrostatically charging dust on the surface of nuclei and theoretically ejecting some dust is part of the electric comet delusions. That temporary charging when comets are roughly 3 to 5 AU from the Sun and before the coma blocks the solar wind from the nucleus, will perturb the real solar electromagnetic field around the comet.

The Thunderbolts cranks have a delusion thunderbolts between the Sun and comets. The EC model is built on a delusion that the Sun has a massive charge, that charge creates an undetected massive radial solar electric field, that imaginary electric field charges up comets and there are thunderbolts (electric discharges) between the Sun and comets.
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