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View Poll Results: Are you willing to work for free if the goods and services are free?
Yes 19 33.93%
No 26 46.43%
I don't know 11 19.64%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 18th October 2020, 04:49 PM   #1721
The Man
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Yeah whose in charge of this insidious operation. I suspect our friend doesn't know.
Worse than that, if the spy knew how to work "in the interest of richests" they could work it themselves to their own interest and become rich. Instead of having to work as a spy. So it's not only that he doesn't know it's that he's implying that bot or the spy have some authority to take action or not. Leaving those "richests" simply at their mercies. For all 'the spy' knows the wife could be a crucial element to some endeavor and must be protected. Gaetan's implication that she wouldn't be protected simply because she isn't rich once again ignores possible details that are not related directly to money.
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Old Yesterday, 07:44 AM   #1722
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Yeah whose in charge of this insidious operation. I suspect our friend doesn't know.
I'd settle for a middle management type. With hiring permission.
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Old Yesterday, 07:59 AM   #1723
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
As if being rich or poor was a matter of choice!
Being poor is a matter of choice.

When was the last time you applied for a better job? When was the last time you asked for a raise? When was the last time you reviewed your budget? Do you even have a budget?

The work you've put into getting into your situation, from educational choices, to family choices are factors in your control.

You can either work to get out of the hole you've dug for yourself, or you can scream until the world changes. We both know the path you are on, but don't kid yourself, it's your choice.

I doubt anyone here is "rich" by any definition other than yours.
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Old Yesterday, 09:39 AM   #1724
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
Being poor is a matter of choice.
If somebody would have the choice to leave in a nice house with garden and swimming pool and to leave in a getto, what choice would he make? In a system of money it can only be allowed to the 1% of the population
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Old Yesterday, 10:36 AM   #1725
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
If somebody would have the choice to leave in a nice house with garden and swimming pool and to leave in a getto, what choice would he make? In a system of money it can only be allowed to the 1% of the population
I'm not living in a house with a pool. The pool belongs to the HOA. I'm not part of the 1%.

What choices did those living in a ghetto make that led them to select their current living arrangements? Did they choose to drop out of school? Did they choose to not seek better employment or seek a raise? Did they, like you do, see their circumstances as immutable and not a result of their active choices?

You present your question dishonestly. You ignore all of the other choices the person made that limited their housing opportunities. You ignore all of the options they are actively choosing to keep them in their ghetto.

Being poor is the result of bad choices. What you do when you remove choice, is to remove freedom. To be a slave.

Maybe some self reflection would be advised. Why did you cut out everything else I said? Truth makes you uncomfortable, certainly. But it's ok to be a bit self reflective before you demand the world to change to fit your desires.

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Old Yesterday, 11:35 AM   #1726
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I know you'll ignore this, again, but if you need help punching up your resume, or CV, there are people who can help. If you need help creating a budget, again, there are people who can help. Your situation, no matter how intractable you think your position has become, there are people who can help. Asking us to change the world to fit your vision, you will not find that help anywhere.
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Old Yesterday, 12:28 PM   #1727
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
If somebody would have the choice to leave in a nice house with garden and swimming pool and to leave in a getto, what choice would he make? In a system of money it can only be allowed to the 1% of the population
Under your system they would be lucky to get a yurt.
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Old Yesterday, 01:01 PM   #1728
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
If somebody would have the choice to leave in a nice house with garden and swimming pool and to leave in a getto, what choice would he make? In a system of money it can only be allowed to the 1% of the population

Unless your assertion is that 99% of the population lives in ghettos, then your assertion, by simply its own refutation, is demonstrably wrong.

We've got a nice house (at least to us), a garden and even had a pool. We are certainly not rich and several orders of magnitude below that 1% you just asserted were only permitted such things.

The choices we made were to work and save to obtain those things. I took risks, turned down offers of new positions banking on the one I had being more sustainable. That paid off, as I would have been laid off years ago. We bought at a time when the housing market was at its highest but bought well enough within our means. That paid off, the subsequent crash actually reduced our payments to less then they would have been if we were still renting. We paid down and paid off the house last year with those savings while interest rates were still lower than what we got in at. We choose to live decade to decade, not week to week or paycheck to paycheck. My last two cars were bought new and driven for over ten years each. Saving enough that my current car I bought new, for cash. Forgoing immediate and particularly credit expenditures to stay on a budget and save for unforeseen consequences and to pay cash for major purchases when enough has been saved. Last Spring I just got my first new motorcycle after forty years of riding on the road. Selling my old one for what I had paid for it (used) back in 1992, having maintained it myself all those years. I'm already doing the regular servicing on the new one myself.
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Old Yesterday, 03:54 PM   #1729
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Unfortunately, I do not quite share the opinion that being poor is just a matter of choice, as there is great inequality, bigotry and exploitation throughout the world. Underneath the impotent ranting and simplistic rhetoric there's no denying that the world is a savage place, with many problems which those of good will would wish could be solved.

It is not, however, anywhere near as simple as Gaetan would have it. Not everything is available to everyone, and not everyone wants the same thing. There is a very large territory between the ghetto and the swimming pool, and although the poorest cannot always choose as they would like, there are choices to be made, even by them, and for a great many it is a matter of choice, and the shortsighted adolescent sort of choices Gaetan seems to favor are not only ineffectual and counterproductive, but they fail drastically and dramatically to address many of the very real evils that do exist in the real world.

Like The Man above, I'm hardly among the one percent, but I'm pretty well off, and certainly better off than most in the world. Having lived frugally much of my life, I find myself now with plenty of money, but for reasons of choice that I doubt Gaetan would understand, I prefer to live very modestly in the country, spending very little on luxuries and services. I'd rather have some money to give away and fall back on than a pool.

Gaetan's plan to remove choice might, in some coarse utilitarian sense, result in some improvement for some, but would result in a different sort of slavery for many, while likely resulting in little actual improvement for many others.

It's tempting, at least as a thought exercise, to imagine how one might improve the lot of the masses in the world, and to invent social cures, but if you're going to do it in any but the most cursory, juvenile manner, it requires more than the scanty imagination we've seen from Gaetan, who, aside from having a woefully inadequate understanding of how the world works, seems unable or unwilling to learn anything.

Here, for example, I would suggest a little thought exercise for Gaetan. If (as your preceding post suggests) you believe that an answer to some of the world's woes might be found in substituting suburban houses with a pool and a garden for the overcrowded urban spaces in which so many find themselves, do some math. Don't just blurt out the same old platitudes. Figure out what area such dwellings would occupy on the earth, if everyone among the billions of earth's inhabitants had one (and don't forget the services, the roads, the shops, and whatnot) and then try to figure out where they would fit, how the people would eat, and what, in short, would be left of the "sweet spontaneous earth" after your plan has turned it into a vast interurban parking lot.

While explicitly refraining from attempts to understand or criticize anyone's character here, I would modestly suggest that a serious minded person who does not want to appear to others as a troll, a crackpot or a fool would do well to take that exercise seriously and refrain from response until it's been attempted.
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Old Yesterday, 06:21 PM   #1730
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According to researchers, between 300,000 and 500,000 people die each year in the United States from sleeping pills prescribed by doctors. Who will do justice to the dead? Who is going to judge the doctors who prescribed these drugs? Who will judge those who approved them. It is obvious that the health care system is corrupted to the bone to allow these drugs to be sold. The guy has a health problem, trusts his doctor who prescribes a molecule for him and 2 years later his liver and kidneys are finished and the guy end with cancer, who will be accountable? Studies prove that vitamin D, C, and zinc are essential for the immune system to fight viruses like Covid, but for doctors these nutrients or all plants are useless because they cannot be patented by the pharmaceutical industry . Covid is a vast global drug pharmacy conspiracy to sell vaccine, people who have died from Covid have died from lack of care and the corrupt health care system is the cause. What it costs to supplement the elderly with nutrient deficiencies and a worn out, aging digestive system, these supplements cost next to nothing. Pharmacies have hundreds of billions of dollars in revenues and billions in profits so it doesn't seem in their budget to squeeze millions into bribing well-placed people all over the world. Even the instigators of the mask say they have no proof of its effectiveness, it contributes to infections and the media does not talk about it because the government is giving millions in media advertising to tell people to wear it, it is in fact chain corruption, it is useless but the goal is to subdue the population, to scare people to sell the vaccine, but the vaccine against the flu is useless, it is only effective at most 40% and that of an effectiveness limited to 3 months, in other words it would be necessary to vaccinate the whole population every 3 months, imagine the profits of the pharmas. In addition, vaccines contain toxic products that put people at risk for their health and the government sees this as the miracle solution. The state shut down businesses and businesses, put us in debt and bankrupt people, robbed people of jobs, cansel cancer care and surgeries for months, and caused more harm, than in the end will prove that it was for nothing, you cannot get rid of a flu virus. There is a natural and inexpensive drug like chloroquine but studies on this drug have been torpedoed by prostitutes in pharmacies so that they offer us their very expensive junk food. I can't wait for a journalist or a member of Parliament to stand up and have the courage to denounce this systemic corruption, it's like the domino effect, it only had to bribe a few well-placed individuals at the start and all followed
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Old Today, 07:16 AM   #1731
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Unfortunately, I do not quite share the opinion that being poor is just a matter of choice, as there is great inequality, bigotry and exploitation throughout the world. Underneath the impotent ranting and simplistic rhetoric there's no denying that the world is a savage place, with many problems which those of good will would wish could be solved.
I was being overly simplistic as nuance is lost on my target.

I don't think Gaetan is a victim of any circumstance beyond their own creation. His or her lack of resources is a reflection on the choices they have made.

There are places in the world where there is nothing you can do, really, to improve your situation too much. But Gaetan and I, and most others here, do not live there.
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Old Today, 07:19 AM   #1732
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
According to researchers, between 300,000 and 500,000 people die each year in the United States from sleeping pills prescribed by doctors. <snipped wall of text>
Do we need to add your sleeping pill addition to the things holding you down?

We were talking about reasons you are, by your own admission, poor. Then you assault us with this nonsensical wall of text. Really, is your insomnia that bad? You can be honest with us, we are all friends here and wouldn't mind seeing you get out of the hole you find yourself in.
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Old Today, 08:01 AM   #1733
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Have we given up on blaming money for all the world's woes and started sharing paranoid lies about medicine instead?
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Old Today, 08:41 AM   #1734
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
According to researchers, between 300,000 and 500,000 people die each year in the United States from sleeping pills prescribed by doctors. Who will do justice to the dead? Who is going to judge the doctors who prescribed these drugs? Who will judge those who approved them. It is obvious that the health care system is corrupted to the bone to allow these drugs to be sold. The guy has a health problem, trusts his doctor who prescribes a molecule for him and 2 years later his liver and kidneys are finished and the guy end with cancer, who will be accountable? Studies prove that vitamin D, C, and zinc are essential for the immune system to fight viruses like Covid, but for doctors these nutrients or all plants are useless because they cannot be patented by the pharmaceutical industry . Covid is a vast global drug pharmacy conspiracy to sell vaccine, people who have died from Covid have died from lack of care and the corrupt health care system is the cause. What it costs to supplement the elderly with nutrient deficiencies and a worn out, aging digestive system, these supplements cost next to nothing. Pharmacies have hundreds of billions of dollars in revenues and billions in profits so it doesn't seem in their budget to squeeze millions into bribing well-placed people all over the world. Even the instigators of the mask say they have no proof of its effectiveness, it contributes to infections and the media does not talk about it because the government is giving millions in media advertising to tell people to wear it, it is in fact chain corruption, it is useless but the goal is to subdue the population, to scare people to sell the vaccine, but the vaccine against the flu is useless, it is only effective at most 40% and that of an effectiveness limited to 3 months, in other words it would be necessary to vaccinate the whole population every 3 months, imagine the profits of the pharmas. In addition, vaccines contain toxic products that put people at risk for their health and the government sees this as the miracle solution. The state shut down businesses and businesses, put us in debt and bankrupt people, robbed people of jobs, cansel cancer care and surgeries for months, and caused more harm, than in the end will prove that it was for nothing, you cannot get rid of a flu virus. There is a natural and inexpensive drug like chloroquine but studies on this drug have been torpedoed by prostitutes in pharmacies so that they offer us their very expensive junk food. I can't wait for a journalist or a member of Parliament to stand up and have the courage to denounce this systemic corruption, it's like the domino effect, it only had to bribe a few well-placed individuals at the start and all followed
So how come the bad guys supporting the elites don't shut you down for threatening their existence? I mean you claim they read EVERYTHING why would they let you post this? Don't they control the internet too? Is ISF immune to their power?
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Old Today, 08:44 AM   #1735
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Have we given up on blaming money for all the world's woes and started sharing paranoid lies about medicine instead?
My totally unsubstantiated guess, Gaetan suffers from insomnia and is currently being ravaged by it's effects. Every idea sounds good. By the time modern medicine got into the picture, paranoia already took hold. So we've got the blame the world for their current economic perils, and look, pills!
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Old Today, 09:13 AM   #1736
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
According to researchers, between 300,000 and 500,000 people die each year in the United States from sleeping pills prescribed by doctors.
Once again no, the study cited explicitly does not say that. The deaths were only associated with, not causally attributed to, only the mere prescriptions themselves. No attempt was made to discern if said prescriptions had even been filled , let alone any pills actually taken. Certainly people with sleeping issues sufficient for a doctor to even write a prescription, may have a higher tendency to die sooner than someone without such issues.

Once again, please make at least some effort to at least try to understand your own citation or stop simply repeating your, now apparently deliberate, misunderstanding.


Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post

Who will do justice to the dead? Who is going to judge the doctors who prescribed these drugs? Who will judge those who approved them. It is obvious that the health care system is corrupted to the bone to allow these drugs to be sold. The guy has a health problem, trusts his doctor who prescribes a molecule for him and 2 years later his liver and kidneys are finished and the guy end with cancer, who will be accountable? Studies prove that vitamin D, C, and zinc are essential for the immune system to fight viruses like Covid, but for doctors these nutrients or all plants are useless because they cannot be patented by the pharmaceutical industry .
Check your stores, such supplements are a major industry, primarily because they are less regulated. In the US alone and in 2018 supplements were nearly a 31 billion dollar industry.

Revenue of vitamins & nutritional supplements production in the United States from 2018 and 2019 (in billion U.S. dollars)*

Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Covid is a vast global drug pharmacy conspiracy to sell vaccine, people who have died from Covid have died from lack of care and the corrupt health care system is the cause. What it costs to supplement the elderly with nutrient deficiencies and a worn out, aging digestive system, these supplements cost next to nothing. Pharmacies have hundreds of billions of dollars in revenues and billions in profits so it doesn't seem in their budget to squeeze millions into bribing well-placed people all over the world. Even the instigators of the mask say they have no proof of its effectiveness, it contributes to infections...
Nonsense, that would require the virus to be sustained and perhaps even multiply in the mask itself. The worst a mask can be, for a virus, is simply ineffective.

Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
... and the media does not talk about it because the government is giving millions in media advertising to tell people to wear it, it is in fact chain corruption, it is useless but the goal is to subdue the population, to scare people to sell the vaccine, but the vaccine against the flu is useless, it is only effective at most 40% and that of an effectiveness limited to 3 months, in other words it would be necessary to vaccinate the whole population every 3 months, imagine the profits of the pharmas.
Well, they don't do it, because the flu is seasonal. As the virus that causes it survives better in cold dry conditions. Thus profits aren't the only driving factor, lack of necessity precludes profit those off season months.


Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
In addition, vaccines contain toxic products that put people at risk for their health and the government sees this as the miracle solution. The state shut down businesses and businesses, put us in debt and bankrupt people, robbed people of jobs, cansel cancer care and surgeries for months, and caused more harm, than in the end will prove that it was for nothing, you cannot get rid of a flu virus.
Covid-19 is a SARS virus (SARS-CoV-2, Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome CoronaVirus 2). A Baltimore class IV positive-sense single-stranded RNA virus. While the flu is caused by an influenza virus of the negative-sense single stranded RNA virus family Orthomyxoviridae.


Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2


Orthomyxoviridae

So not "a flu virus"

Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
There is a natural and inexpensive drug like chloroquine but studies on this drug have been torpedoed by prostitutes in pharmacies so that they offer us their very expensive junk food. I can't wait for a journalist or a member of Parliament to stand up and have the courage to denounce this systemic corruption, it's like the domino effect, it only had to bribe a few well-placed individuals at the start and all followed
Actually, the limited positive studies were torpedoed by the researchers themselves. By failing to adhere to reputable methodologies.

Is there any conspiracy theory you won't profess or any statement of fact that you can't get blatantly wrong?
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Old Today, 11:03 AM   #1737
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i didn't mention but all that conspiracy is for money profit, if it wouldn't be that this virus would just be a simple flue.
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Old Today, 11:52 AM   #1738
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
i didn't mention but all that conspiracy is for money profit, if it wouldn't be that this virus would just be a simple flue.
As I already mentioned, and cited, it isn't even the same type of virus as what causes the flu. Heck, just the name of it, Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome CoronaVirus 2, would tell you that. So even without money, you are demonstrably wrong.
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Old Today, 12:54 PM   #1739
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
If somebody would have the choice to leave in a nice house with garden and swimming pool and to leave in a getto, what choice would he make? In a system of money it can only be allowed to the 1% of the population
Wrong again:

No pool, but this is the view out the back of my place in S.F.





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Old Today, 01:05 PM   #1740
Leftus
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
i didn't mention but all that conspiracy is for money profit, if it wouldn't be that this virus would just be a simple flue.
Removing money from the equation wouldn't change a thing. Right now, it's not the vaccine makers getting rich. Or the scientists. Or anyone, really. It's a conspiracy without money or profit!

Also, why are we on covid, did you suddenly become rich and not tell us? I thought we were friends. Did your housing and income shortcomings all of a sudden disappear? Tell us how you did it please. Or did I come too close to the truth and your CIA masters dictate a subject change. Do they have a gun to your head? If so, in your next post, make a point, back it up with actual facts, and spell check it. That will be your distress signal. For anyone else, we will just agree with you.

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