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Old 12th February 2019, 08:09 PM   #921
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Deepak Chopra was never a Christian or a Hindu.

He is a Sufi.
Nobody said he was Christian or Hindu. He himself says he is Muslim. Are you actually reading what people write??
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Old 13th February 2019, 03:04 AM   #922
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Nobody said he was Christian or Hindu. He himself says he is Muslim. Are you actually reading what people write??


No. No, she / he is not.
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Old 13th February 2019, 08:33 AM   #923
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Bahaism is a pagan spiritualist teaching. Like new ageism...
So does that mean some of your Quran 'Energy Vampires' and/or some sort of Quran 'Divine Sinkhole' is going to destroy Bahaism?
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Old 13th February 2019, 02:56 PM   #924
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Ah yes, Deepak Chopra, what an inspiration to us all. I bet the Muslims have no one to match this guy.
Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post

How is this link to a boring video in any way a comment about Deepak?

Amazing how a speaker like the one in the video can drag out his story for soooooo long. Holy crap! We get told about him being raised by his Grandfather, and living only a couple of doors down from the Church, and he just goes on and on.
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Old 17th February 2019, 02:49 PM   #925
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"The question still remains, why are more women converting than men to Islam ?
Perhaps they realize their Soul is worth the Factual Research.

1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original
Sinners, (ie. Eve picking from the forbidden
tree){Genesis 2:4-3:24}. The Koran Clarifies it
was Adam Not Eve {Qur'an 7:19-25}

Edited by Agatha:  Edited for rule 4. For the remaining points, please see the link below.


https://jews-for-allah.org/Why-Belie...g-to-Islam.htm

Last edited by Agatha; 18th February 2019 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 17th February 2019, 03:18 PM   #926
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
10. Islam has unconfined Women and has given them
the human right to reach for the sky. There have been
Muslim Women Presidents through out the centuries,
but to this date, the oppressive mentality of the
men in the Western U.S.A. has stopped any Women from becoming
Presidents in predominately Christian countries,
while the Muslim countries have voted for and
elected Female Presidents."

https://jews-for-allah.org/Why-Belie...g-to-Islam.htm
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ment_and_State

1988 is the first date.
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Old 17th February 2019, 03:22 PM   #927
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
"The question still remains, why are more women converting than men to Islam ?
Perhaps they realize their Soul is worth the Factual Research.

1. The Bible Convicts Women as the original
Sinners, (ie. Eve picking from the forbidden
tree){Genesis 2:4-3:24}. The Koran Clarifies it
was Adam Not Eve {Qur'an 7:19-25}
Same fairy-story, different protagonists. This is like asking who was better: Batman or Superman.

Quote:
2. The Bible says "The Birth of a Daughter is a
loss" {Ecclesiasticus 22:3}. The Qur'an says both
are an Equal Blessing { Qur'an 42:49}
Both of them say a LOT worse about women than they do men.

Quote:
3. The Bible Forbids Women from Speaking in
church {I Corinthians 14:34-35}. The Qur'an says
Women Can argue with the Prophet {58:1}
As long as they don't mind their husbands beating them up. Have you seen Arabic society?

Quote:
4. In the Bible, divorced Women are Labeled as
an Adulteress, while men are not {Matthew 5:31-32}. The
Koran does Not have Biblical double standards
{ Qur'an 30:21}
Again, have you seen Arabic society? They KILL women on the SUSPICION of adultery.

Quote:
5. In The Bible, Widows and Sisters do Not
Inherit Any Property or Wealth, Only men
do{Numbers 27:1-11}The Koran Abolished this
male greediness { Qur'an 4:22} and God Protects All.
Do Arabic girls get equal treatment to Arabic boys? E.g. They have only just now been allowed drive a car. 2019!!! Drive a car! An yet they still get harassed if they go out without some "escort". 2019!!

Quote:
6. The Bible Allows Multiple Wives{I Kings 11:3}
In The Koran, God limits the number to 4 only
under certain situations (with the Wife's
permission)and Prefers you Marry Only One
Wife{ Qur'an 4:3} The Koran gives the Woman
the Right to Choose who to Marry.
Oh, well that's MUCH better! But let's forget the historical Turkish sultans with hareems of thousands of wives. Nothing to see there.

Quote:
7. "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not
pledged to be married and rapes her and they are
discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty
shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he
has violated her. He can never divorce her as long
as he lives" {Deuteronomy 22:28-30}
One must ask a simple question here, who is
really punished, the man who raped the woman or
the woman who was raped? According to the
Bible, you have to spend the Rest of Your Life
with the man who Raped You.
The Prophet Muhammad Says {Volume 9, Book
86, Number 101} Narrated by Aisha:" It is
essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the
marriage)".
Would the Christian men Reading this prefer the
Women they know to Be Christian or Muslim?
So it's better for a woman to be raped by a Muslim than a Christian? Because if it's a Christian they MUST get married? Perhaps you might provide any evidence of this "law" being followed, that this is actually happening.

Quote:
8. The Bible also asks Women to wear veils as in
Islam {I Corinthians 11:3-10}, this lowers the
chance of rape, (God Forbid), see statistic link
below.
Whereas in Muslim countries women are only forcd to wear the veil or else they will be punished by the Muslim Decency Police, and possibly beheaded. That's MUCH better.

Quote:
9. Women were given rights to Vote less than a
100 years ago in the (US), while the Quran (42:38) gave
Women Voting rights almost 1,500 years ago.
Do women have the right to vote in Saudi Arabia? If so, when did that happen?

Quote:
10. Islam has unconfined Women and has given them
the human right to reach for the sky. There have been
Muslim Women Presidents through out the centuries,
but to this date, the oppressive mentality of the
men in the Western U.S.A. has stopped any Women from becoming
Presidents in predominately Christian countries,
while the Muslim countries have voted for and
elected Female Presidents."
Here's a lits of modern leaders of countries who were women. How many were Muslim, and how many were Christian. Of the couple of hundred women, less than 5 were Muslim. The vast majority were Christian, or Hindu, or of no particular faith. Islam runs a very poor race in this regard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...and_government

Quote:
Ah yes. A bunch of religious lunatics with no attachment to reality. Why am I not surprised that's your source.
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Old 17th February 2019, 05:58 PM   #928
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He has been insulting his intelligence for 20 pages. He doesn't care, and most of the time doesn't even bother reading the well deserved derision of his ideas. What faith in supernatural can do to a person..
I clearly demonstrated the verses in his holy book which supports pedophilia many times. Didn't care about that either. I wonder..
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Old 19th February 2019, 05:51 PM   #929
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Errancy; Children are born pure, without sin XE "sin" (Leviticus 11:44, 19:2, 20:7) Vs Children are born wicked sinners (Psalms 58:3)

Excuse; That is what it says but that is not what it means. (Psalms 58:3) is speaking about the potential to commit sin XE "sin" , not being an actual sinner.

Rebuttal: (See Reply letter [E] in Rebuttal Chart). The language and context used is that of one who is a sinner, not of one who will be a sinner.

“The wicked are estranged from the womb” -not- “will be” (future tense), instead “are” (present tense)

“they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.”

not will go astray as adults.

Furthermore, Paul also adopts the absurdity that children are sinners by claiming;

“Wherefore, as by one man sin XE "sin" entered into the world, and death XE "death" by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned” (Romans 5:12)

Correction: The Quran corrects the fallacy that children are inherently evil or have contracted sin XE "sin" of previous generations;

“We have indeed created man in the best of moulds.” (Quran 95:4)

"Say, "Shall I seek other than God as a Lord when He is the Lord of everything?" Every person earns what is for it, and none will bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return and He will inform you regarding your disputes " (Quran 6:164)

" If you reject, then know that God is in no need of you, and He dislikes rejection for His servants. If you are appreciative, He is pleased for you. None shall bear the burdens of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you of everything you had done. He is fully aware of what is inside the chests." (Quran 39:7)

https://quranbible.org/english.htm#_Toc96948618
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Old 19th February 2019, 06:15 PM   #930
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Errancy; Children are born pure, without sin XE "sin" (Leviticus 11:44, 19:2, 20:7) Vs Children are born wicked sinners (Psalms 58:3)

Excuse; That is what it says but that is not what it means. (Psalms 58:3) is speaking about the potential to commit sin XE "sin" , not being an actual sinner.

Rebuttal: (See Reply letter [E] in Rebuttal Chart). The language and context used is that of one who is a sinner, not of one who will be a sinner.

“The wicked are estranged from the womb” -not- “will be” (future tense), instead “are” (present tense)

“they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.”

not will go astray as adults.

Furthermore, Paul also adopts the absurdity that children are sinners by claiming;

“Wherefore, as by one man sin XE "sin" entered into the world, and death XE "death" by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned” (Romans 5:12)

Correction: The Quran corrects the fallacy that children are inherently evil or have contracted sin XE "sin" of previous generations;

“We have indeed created man in the best of moulds.” (Quran 95:4)

"Say, "Shall I seek other than God as a Lord when He is the Lord of everything?" Every person earns what is for it, and none will bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return and He will inform you regarding your disputes " (Quran 6:164)

" If you reject, then know that God is in no need of you, and He dislikes rejection for His servants. If you are appreciative, He is pleased for you. None shall bear the burdens of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you of everything you had done. He is fully aware of what is inside the chests." (Quran 39:7)

https://quranbible.org/english.htm#_Toc96948618
What ARE you smoking??
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Old 19th February 2019, 07:50 PM   #931
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Errancy; Children are born pure, without sin XE "sin" (Leviticus 11:44, 19:2, 20:7) Vs Children are born wicked sinners (Psalms 58:3)

Excuse; That is what it says but that is not what it means. (Psalms 58:3) is speaking about the potential to commit sin XE "sin" , not being an actual sinner.

Rebuttal: (See Reply letter [E] in Rebuttal Chart). The language and context used is that of one who is a sinner, not of one who will be a sinner.

“The wicked are estranged from the womb” -not- “will be” (future tense), instead “are” (present tense)

“they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.”

not will go astray as adults.

Furthermore, Paul also adopts the absurdity that children are sinners by claiming;

“Wherefore, as by one man sin XE "sin" entered into the world, and death XE "death" by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned” (Romans 5:12)

Correction: The Quran corrects the fallacy that children are inherently evil or have contracted sin XE "sin" of previous generations;

“We have indeed created man in the best of moulds.” (Quran 95:4)

"Say, "Shall I seek other than God as a Lord when He is the Lord of everything?" Every person earns what is for it, and none will bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return and He will inform you regarding your disputes " (Quran 6:164)

" If you reject, then know that God is in no need of you, and He dislikes rejection for His servants. If you are appreciative, He is pleased for you. None shall bear the burdens of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you of everything you had done. He is fully aware of what is inside the chests." (Quran 39:7)

https://quranbible.org/english.htm#_Toc96948618

Sin XE? A new Windows upgrade, perhaps?
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Old Yesterday, 06:21 AM   #932
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Errancy; Children are born pure, without sin XE "sin" (Leviticus 11:44, 19:2, 20:7) Vs Children are born wicked sinners (Psalms 58:3)

Excuse; That is what it says but that is not what it means. (Psalms 58:3) is speaking about the potential to commit sin XE "sin" , not being an actual sinner.

Rebuttal: (See Reply letter [E] in Rebuttal Chart). The language and context used is that of one who is a sinner, not of one who will be a sinner.

“The wicked are estranged from the womb” -not- “will be” (future tense), instead “are” (present tense)

“they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.”

not will go astray as adults.

Furthermore, Paul also adopts the absurdity that children are sinners by claiming;

“Wherefore, as by one man sin XE "sin" entered into the world, and death XE "death" by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned” (Romans 5:12)

Correction: The Quran corrects the fallacy that children are inherently evil or have contracted sin XE "sin" of previous generations;

“We have indeed created man in the best of moulds.” (Quran 95:4)

"Say, "Shall I seek other than God as a Lord when He is the Lord of everything?" Every person earns what is for it, and none will bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return and He will inform you regarding your disputes " (Quran 6:164)

" If you reject, then know that God is in no need of you, and He dislikes rejection for His servants. If you are appreciative, He is pleased for you. None shall bear the burdens of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you of everything you had done. He is fully aware of what is inside the chests." (Quran 39:7)

https://quranbible.org/english.htm#_Toc96948618
I think you need a good, stiff drink.

Quote:
16:67 And of the fruits of the date-palm, and grapes, whence ye derive strong drink and (also) good nourishment. Lo! therein is indeed a portent for people who have sense.
Just be sure to be sober by the time you pray:

Quote:
4:43 O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter, nor when ye are polluted, save when journeying upon the road, till ye have bathed. And if ye be ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have touched women, and ye find not water, then go to high clean soil and rub your faces and your hands (therewith). Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.
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Old Yesterday, 06:23 AM   #933
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Fun fact: The Koran does not exclude the possibility that Jesus was the son of God.

Quote:
39:4 If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created.
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Old Yesterday, 06:30 AM   #934
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Allah does not approve of earning your red wings:

Quote:
2:222 They question thee (O Muhammad) concerning menstruation. Say: It is an illness, so let women alone at such times and go not in unto them till they are cleansed. And when they have purified themselves, then go in unto them as Allah hath enjoined upon you. Truly Allah loveth those who turn unto Him, and loveth those who have a care for cleanness.
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Old Yesterday, 07:32 AM   #935
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What happened to Muslim female presidents? Are you like so many posters here, when presented with evidence contrary to their claims or someone points out holes in their arguments, that you quickly change topics?
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Old Yesterday, 07:50 AM   #936
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Sin XE? A new Windows upgrade, perhaps?
I think he means "e.g." but it's so incoherent it's impossible to tell.
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Old Yesterday, 08:05 AM   #937
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Furthermore, Paul also adopts the absurdity that children are sinners...
You are patently incompetent at reading and understanding scripture, even that of your own religion. The "errors" you purport to find and the "corrections" you propose are simply your own ignorant misunderstandings, mistranslations, and misinterpretations.

Now be a good boy and go read up on the Christian doctrine of original sin so that you can represent it accurately and correctly next time instead of embarrassing yourself with these infantile exegetics.
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Old Today, 03:41 AM   #938
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"Errancy; Women are not property, except in the Bible (Exodus 21:7-11) A father can sell a daughter into slavery XE "slavery" to pay a debt. A daughter sold into slavery is not released at the end of six years as is an ordinary male slave.

Excuse; None available.

Correction: Fortunately, for all of us, God gave us our rights and freedom in the Quran over 1400 years ago. We do not have to be enslaved to the laws of the Bible:

God says: “O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women XE "women" against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.” (Quran 4:19)

Regarding a parent’s debt or poverty, we are commanded in the Quran not to slay children to alleviate poverty:

“Say: Come I will recite what your Lord has forbidden to you-(remember) that you do not associate anything with Him and show kindness to your parents, and do not slay your children for (fear XE "fear" of) poverty - We provide for you and for them” (Quran 6:151)"

https://quranbible.org/english.htm#_Toc96948618

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Old Today, 06:48 AM   #939
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
Women are not property, except in the Bible...
Thank you for reminding us what a shining example radical Islam gives for the proper way to treat women.

Quote:
Exodus 21:7-11
Excuse; None available.
Just admit you don't have a clue what the Bible actually said there.
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Old Today, 08:22 AM   #940
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
"Errancy; Women are not property, except in the Bible
Are we talking about the same Koran? I don't think we are. You seem to know even less about the Koran than the average Christian knows of the Bible.

Let's start with the passage that says a woman is only worth half a man.

Quote:
2:282 And call two witness from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not at hand, then a man and two women
Raping married women you claim in conquest is just fine with the Koran.

Quote:
4:24 And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.
The Koran gets pretty weird in its rules for raping slave women or forcing them into marriage.

Quote:
4:25 And whoso is not able to afford to marry free, believing women, let them marry from the believing maids whom your right hands possess. Allah knoweth best (concerning) your faith. Ye (proceed) one from another; so wed them by permission of their folk, and give unto them their portions in kindness, they being honest, not debauched nor of loose conduct. And if when they are honourably married they commit lewdness they shall incur the half of the punishment (prescribed) for free women (in that case). This is for him among you who feareth to commit sin. But to have patience would be better for you. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Even when women aren't outright owned in the Koran they're still forced into a subservient position:

Quote:
4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
Back to women being property, a man can rape any of his slave girls he wants according to the Koran.

Quote:
70:29 And those who preserve their chastity
70:30 Save with their wives and those whom their right hands possess, for thus they are not blameworthy;
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Old Today, 09:14 AM   #941
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Even when women aren't outright owned in the Koran they're still forced into a subservient position.
In marked contrast to the rules for Israelites set out in Ex. 21. Indenture, at the time, was a fact of life. It was based on the heretical notion that one's labor has economic value. One wasn't sold into slavery, but one could agree to enter indenture as a way of paying debts one could not otherwise afford. (I still accept certain forms of agreed-upon labor in lieu of rent for my tenants.) The notion that Ex. 21 describes some form of involuntary servitude or chattel slavery is bizarre.

The reason the rules differ between men and women is that indenture served a different purpose in each case. For men, the indenture was a form of debt payment. The term was limited in law to protect the servant from usurous exploitation of his labor. It was up to the servant to determine whether he wished to continue in that condition after the expiration of the agreed-upon term, not as a continuing obligation but rather as the perpetuation of a situation that he enjoyed.

For women, the indenture was intended as a prelude to marriage. The girl was expected eventually to marry into the receiving family, and the prenuptual indenture may have been a form of dowry in lieu of goods. This let poor families stand on equal ground in the community. The relevant prescriptions in Ex. 21 specify what happens if the prospective marriage doesn't work out. If the girl elects to stay on anyway, she must be treated as a daughter -- not as a servant. This status must be maintained even if the household takes on another indentured girl. She becomes a full-fledged member of the household. The indentured girl may not simply be disposed of as property, "sold to foreigners."

The reason Emre can find no "excuse" for this Torah passage is that he's gotten it almost completely wrong. The relevant passages of Ex. 21 specify the rules that protect the servant under the conditions of voluntary indenture. They are laid upon on the host, not allowances for the mistreatment of servants or for treating them like property. The gist of this passage is that they cannot be treated as property, even if the deal goes south.
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Old Today, 10:59 AM   #942
Emre_1974tr
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
"Errancy; Women are not property, except in the Bible (Exodus 21:7-11) A father can sell a daughter into slavery XE "slavery" to pay a debt. A daughter sold into slavery is not released at the end of six years as is an ordinary male slave.

Excuse; None available.

Correction: Fortunately, for all of us, God gave us our rights and freedom in the Quran over 1400 years ago. We do not have to be enslaved to the laws of the Bible:

God says: “O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women XE "women" against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.” (Quran 4:19)

Regarding a parent’s debt or poverty, we are commanded in the Quran not to slay children to alleviate poverty:

“Say: Come I will recite what your Lord has forbidden to you-(remember) that you do not associate anything with Him and show kindness to your parents, and do not slay your children for (fear XE "fear" of) poverty - We provide for you and for them” (Quran 6:151)"

https://quranbible.org/english.htm#_Toc96948618
And;

As I wrote in my Turkish article, the Qur'an banned slavery.

You can't take a person's pen without permission also.

http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2011/...kaldrmstr.html
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Old Today, 11:22 AM   #943
JayUtah
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
As I wrote in my Turkish article, the Qur'an banned slavery.
What is described in Ex. 21 is not slavery. It is indenture, an early form of employment. The errors in your interpretation were explained to you at length. You are obviously incapable of understanding them.
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Old Today, 11:26 AM   #944
halleyscomet
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Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr View Post
And;

As I wrote in my Turkish article, the Qur'an banned slavery.

You can't take a person's pen without permission also.

http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2011/...kaldrmstr.html
Then your article in Turkish is a bald faced lie. I gave examples of the Koran describing rules for slavery, who could be enslaved, and who could rape their slaves as they wished.
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