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17th October 2017, 06:09 AM | #441 |
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You're pettifogging.
I've carved granite with a carbide tipped chisel and diamond tipped grinding tips. I've taken cold rolled steel to limestone, and I've used high speed steel tips to carve soft wood. I've also flacked or slabbed flint, and 'sorta' made what looks like an arrowhead. Although my experience is or skill level is not a master's level, I consider my knowledge about stone removal, shaping and polishing above anyone here... I can state with absolute certainty, that the cuts I posted were not carved with bronze and copper, or stone chisels. Unless you can use those tools to create that site, duplicate them, and mimic the building technique, I'd say it is an unfounded statement to say, "this is how these were built." I read that GT was the site where wild became, or mutated into domesticated wheat. Do you have a citation? Yes, a flood, evidenced by the scablands, inundated the world...and toppled a global civilization.Over 10,000 years has erased all but their mighty monuments and seemingly impossible architecture. Attributing these works to hunter gatherers with stone tools is utterly laughable. |
17th October 2017, 07:52 AM | #442 |
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This magic flood left behind the stone tools with which the building stones were evidently shaped, and most wondrous of all, if you are right, it turned cultivated wheat seeds into wild ones. Again, large monuments don't require advanced trchnology, they require social organisation. This has already been attained in ancient times.
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17th October 2017, 08:02 AM | #443 |
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Just a point of clarification. There are two issues with Troy which KOA seems to be combining into one.
1. Was there a city located at the point on the world? Yes there are several mounds in that area and from what we can tell there was one and possibility more than one 'city' located in that area. So yes there was a 'troy'. 2. Did this Troy have anything to do with the story told by Homer? Yes, maybe and in some fashion, but that is highly debatable. Most hold that the story told by Homer is just a a good story, all all the people, gods, etc added in for grins and giggles. So did legendary Troy exist, Homer's Troy? Highly improbable. The folks in what is now Greece may have raided or attacked one of those cities at some point but as for the rest of the story, nah. |
17th October 2017, 08:06 AM | #444 |
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17th October 2017, 09:04 AM | #445 |
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17th October 2017, 11:59 AM | #446 |
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Here are two interesting images: Perhaps our self proclaimed 'expert' can tell us about them?
The first one just requires him to read the label..... Now having examined these two images can he tell us what the 'high technology" was that was used to create these and other stones at PP? |
17th October 2017, 12:06 PM | #447 |
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17th October 2017, 04:03 PM | #448 |
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The pillars at Göbekli Tepe are limestone. There are still unfinished limestone pillars in the quarry at Göbekli Tepe, showing the construction method.
I have informed you that stone tools for making pillars were found at Göbekli Tepe. You are in denial. Are you directly denying limestone can be formed into accurate shapes with stone tools? Here is a photo of the unfinished pillar. |
17th October 2017, 04:37 PM | #449 |
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To add to that is this description of the quarry and the methods probably used to cut them out and move them.
https://tepetelegrams.wordpress.com/...-gobekli-tepe/
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17th October 2017, 09:09 PM | #450 |
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I now ask King of America some direct questions.
1) Can King of America explain why his flood only removed advanced metal tools, as he claimed existed, but only left behind stone tools at Göbekli Tepe, which have been used elsewhere to make straight limestone pillars? 2) Can King of America explain why his flood only removed all evidence of advanced agriculture (selective bred grain strains), as he claimed existed, but only leave behind hard evidence of the known wild strains in Göbekli Tepe's beer vats? 3) If the motifs and construction of Göbekli Tepe are found in nearby, later, archaeological sites, does King of America claim the hunter gatherers of Göbekli Tepe were also wiped out in this flood? If so, when? |
17th October 2017, 09:42 PM | #451 |
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18th October 2017, 03:12 AM | #452 |
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Good grief...seriously, get a helmet. I am concerned for your safety.
"Organization" = agriculture. Historians believed the we began as hunter gathers, THEN became organized into large settlements that demanded a more stable food source. GT is evidence that 12,500 we were NOT just hunting and gathering but later reverted to it. |
18th October 2017, 03:13 AM | #453 |
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18th October 2017, 03:18 AM | #454 |
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18th October 2017, 03:19 AM | #455 |
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18th October 2017, 03:22 AM | #456 |
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18th October 2017, 03:24 AM | #457 |
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18th October 2017, 03:28 AM | #458 |
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AND...I am "King of the Americas" as in Ruler of the Western Hemisphere...not "King of America"
--- I am not saying GT was wiped out by the flood. The flood date merely shows where GT began to decline, and the monuments began their creative difficulty. |
18th October 2017, 03:42 AM | #459 |
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No it isn't. Your evidence is drivel, and one of your monuments is the same age the cathedral in Constantinople, not from the ice age.
The course of progress was this. Hunting with no mass organisation > agriculture with mass organisation (and monuments) > industrial technology > advanced technology. Your notions of floods ending all agriculture and it being reinvented later is manifest tosh. |
18th October 2017, 04:09 AM | #460 |
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18th October 2017, 04:50 AM | #461 |
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18th October 2017, 05:49 AM | #462 |
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18th October 2017, 07:33 AM | #463 |
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You're just being silly now. I will address you about problems with your posts if I want, or refer them to the mods if I choose to do so.
You have mentioned the Precolumbian site at TiwanakuWP. We are told that The name by which Tiwanaku was known to its inhabitants may have been lost as they had no written language. The ancient inhabitants of Tiwanaku are believed to have spoken the Puquina language.With regard to Puma PunkuWP We are informed that it is a large temple complex or monument group that is part of the Tiwanaku Site near Tiwanaku, in western Bolivia. It is believed to date to 536 AD and laterwhich makes it about the same age as Hagia Sophia in Constantinople, not from the Ice Age. Now what is your source for your ice age timeline? Tell me what it is, and why you think it is important, in your own words. I never sit down and watch videos because posters tell me I should. What is there that makes you believe the video, or book, or journal, or whatever your source happens to be? That's what I require to know. |
18th October 2017, 07:37 AM | #464 |
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18th October 2017, 08:25 AM | #465 |
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Really, then why did you make these statements?
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So in your statements you seem to be pretending that you DO know all about these stones - but now you don't? Tsk tsk. The first one, is quite famous. If someone who is flouncing about making authoritative statements about Puma Punku stonework and doesn't recognize it immediately is - clearly not the expert they are pretending. The second image is of the quarry where said stones came from. Again not knowing that makes one believe you are a fellow here not for information and a discussion but instead; A gnarly fellow who lives under a bridge and likes to waste other peoples time. You also did not address your being wrong about how Troy was found, by Calvert not the other more famous guy. Wanna give me a reason to continue this discussion or should I just wave goodbye to the fellow sulking under said bridge? |
18th October 2017, 08:56 AM | #466 |
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18th October 2017, 09:39 AM | #467 |
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Because you can start by telling me what facts are alleged in the video and why you think the source is trustworthy.
I find this often. Very unusual ideas are evidenced by a guru on you tube. Magic energy machines and speculative archaeology are examples of subjects where videos are habitually produced by posters promoting belief in them. But I for example would never say. "Read such and such book" without saying what it contained as evidence and why I thought it significant, and which passages are most worthy of attention. A video is not itself a source, it is a medium, and usually a very time wasting and exasperating one. With a book you can look at references on pages and paragraphs and think about what you have read. So who says what, and why should I pay attention? |
18th October 2017, 10:05 AM | #468 |
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18th October 2017, 10:06 AM | #469 |
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18th October 2017, 10:28 AM | #470 |
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That won't work. You have to produce your argument and the evidence that sustains it, as people do when they cite written material as a source. It's not a question of not examining evidence, like people who refused to look through Galileo's telescope at the satellites of Jupiter.
If Galileo had offered them the telescope without saying how it worked, what phenomena they would see, and why Galileo thought they were significant, and why he was convinced that his optical instrument was trustworthy, then they would have been justified in telling Galileo to stick his telescope up his bum. But Galileo explained his evidence clearly and even wrote a treatise describing the whole thing. So where is your Siderius NunciusWP? Galileo's text ... includes descriptions, explanations, and theories of his observations.Where are these indispensable aspects of your arguments? |
18th October 2017, 03:15 PM | #471 |
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18th October 2017, 03:48 PM | #472 |
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My expertise comes from my stonework, not comparative analysis of ruin sites' stone makeup.
In order to identify what tools are necessary to make a certain cut, I need to know what kind of stone it is, and what time period it is supposed to have come from. Cutting descending squares into diorite can NOT be done with bronze, copper, or stone chisels. |
18th October 2017, 04:15 PM | #473 |
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This stone also was not chiseled...It was cut with a very precise 'saw.'
Most likely the pedestal was carved afterwards... |
18th October 2017, 04:17 PM | #474 |
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18th October 2017, 07:02 PM | #475 |
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If you haven't studied Göbekli Tepe why are you pretending there was a magical flood there? What was the date of this magic flood?
The pillars of Göbekli Tepe are limestone. I can see why you are so totally confused about the construction techniques used at Göbekli Tepe. You can't identify different basic types of stone. |
18th October 2017, 07:21 PM | #476 |
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You're conflating issues.
There was nothing magical about the scablands flood. I am sure many died and were displaced. It literally marks the downfall of a global civilization that made monuments that dwarf our best efforts. Take heed, we live upon a bubble. As for actual impossible stone removal, I was referring to Puma Punku and the ruins supposedly created without a written language and copper and bronze or stone chisels. *They were not carved... |
18th October 2017, 07:26 PM | #477 |
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You mean the rock naturally split along a flat axis like thousands of other natural rock formations?
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18th October 2017, 07:30 PM | #478 |
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18th October 2017, 07:44 PM | #479 |
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The Scabalands Flood was in Washington USA and happened when glaciers melted 13,000 year ago. Göbekli Tepe is in modern Turkey. You are on the wrong continent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channeled_Scablands Washington wasn't inhabited 13,000 year ago. Didn't you know? Mesopotamia was over irrigated after the start of agricultural evolution and the salt tables rose and ended farming. It is from measuring the legacy minerals, archaeologists can date this. Yet these is no evidence of this at Göbekli Tepe, further indicating there was no advanced agriculture. (The Old testament was by herders and is anti-agriculture and Lot's wife metaphorically turned into a pillar of salt for "looking back" at the over-irrigated and barren Jordan agricultural river plains.) |
18th October 2017, 09:09 PM | #480 |
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I apologize but since you haven't read Protzen's appropriate materials on stone working you simply aren't worth talking to. Let me know when you've read that.
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