IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Graham Hancock , joe rogan , michael shermer , zahi hawass

Reply
Old 17th October 2017, 06:09 AM   #441
King of the Americas
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
That's an argument from your personal belief system.

You have yet another problem. You claim that all the evidence was washed away in a magical flood, yet Klaus Schimdt, the Gobekli Tepe archaeologist found the stone tools used construct it. It gets worse for you. The skull incisions found at Gobekli Tepe are also only from stone tools.

More recently archaeologists found the residue of the grains that were used there and they were all wild grains. That destroys your fantasy about pre-12,500 agriculture.

It would seem your magical flood only removed evidence relating to your fantasy claims but left all the normal evidence there.
You're pettifogging.

I've carved granite with a carbide tipped chisel and diamond tipped grinding tips. I've taken cold rolled steel to limestone, and I've used high speed steel tips to carve soft wood. I've also flacked or slabbed flint, and 'sorta' made what looks like an arrowhead. Although my experience is or skill level is not a master's level, I consider my knowledge about stone removal, shaping and polishing above anyone here... I can state with absolute certainty, that the cuts I posted were not carved with bronze and copper, or stone chisels.

Unless you can use those tools to create that site, duplicate them, and mimic the building technique, I'd say it is an unfounded statement to say, "this is how these were built."

I read that GT was the site where wild became, or mutated into domesticated wheat. Do you have a citation?

Yes, a flood, evidenced by the scablands, inundated the world...and toppled a global civilization.Over 10,000 years has erased all but their mighty monuments and seemingly impossible architecture.

Attributing these works to hunter gatherers with stone tools is utterly laughable.
King of the Americas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2017, 07:52 AM   #442
Craig B
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,841
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
You're pettifogging.

I've carved granite with a carbide tipped chisel and diamond tipped grinding tips. I've taken cold rolled steel to limestone, and I've used high speed steel tips to carve soft wood. I've also flacked or slabbed flint, and 'sorta' made what looks like an arrowhead. Although my experience is or skill level is not a master's level, I consider my knowledge about stone removal, shaping and polishing above anyone here... I can state with absolute certainty, that the cuts I posted were not carved with bronze and copper, or stone chisels.

Unless you can use those tools to create that site, duplicate them, and mimic the building technique, I'd say it is an unfounded statement to say, "this is how these were built."

I read that GT was the site where wild became, or mutated into domesticated wheat. Do you have a citation?

Yes, a flood, evidenced by the scablands, inundated the world...and toppled a global civilization.Over 10,000 years has erased all but their mighty monuments and seemingly impossible architecture.

Attributing these works to hunter gatherers with stone tools is utterly laughable.
This magic flood left behind the stone tools with which the building stones were evidently shaped, and most wondrous of all, if you are right, it turned cultivated wheat seeds into wild ones. Again, large monuments don't require advanced trchnology, they require social organisation. This has already been attained in ancient times.
Craig B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2017, 08:02 AM   #443
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,071
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
The fact that there are true stories about real cities does not mean that every story about a city is a true story about a real city.

The fact that Troy was a real place does not make it any more likely that Atlantis or Anch Morpock are real places. There are ways to determine which stories are most likely to be historical and which fictional. The story of Atlantis ticks none of the boxes for the former and all of the boxes for the latter.
Just a point of clarification. There are two issues with Troy which KOA seems to be combining into one.

1. Was there a city located at the point on the world? Yes there are several mounds in that area and from what we can tell there was one and possibility more than one 'city' located in that area. So yes there was a 'troy'.

2. Did this Troy have anything to do with the story told by Homer? Yes, maybe and in some fashion, but that is highly debatable. Most hold that the story told by Homer is just a a good story, all all the people, gods, etc added in for grins and giggles. So did legendary Troy exist, Homer's Troy? Highly improbable. The folks in what is now Greece may have raided or attacked one of those cities at some point but as for the rest of the story, nah.

Last edited by Hans; 17th October 2017 at 08:07 AM.
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2017, 08:06 AM   #444
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,071
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
I can state with absolute certainty, that the cuts I posted were not carved with bronze and copper, or stone chisels.
Absolutely certainty huh? lol Okay tells us how they did it and give us a demonstration. If you can't I can then state with absolute certainty that you are not absolutely certain.

Your personal incredulity isn't evidence.....
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2017, 09:04 AM   #445
steenkh
Philosopher
 
steenkh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 7,259
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
I've carved granite with a carbide tipped chisel and diamond tipped grinding tips. I've taken cold rolled steel to limestone, and I've used high speed steel tips to carve soft wood. I've also flacked or slabbed flint, and 'sorta' made what looks like an arrowhead. Although my experience is or skill level is not a master's level, I consider my knowledge about stone removal, shaping and polishing above anyone here... I can state with absolute certainty, that the cuts I posted were not carved with bronze and copper, or stone chisels.
Next you'll tell us that the Egyptians were not using stone tools?
__________________
Steen

--
Jack of all trades - master of none!
steenkh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2017, 11:59 AM   #446
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,071
Here are two interesting images: Perhaps our self proclaimed 'expert' can tell us about them?



The first one just requires him to read the label.....






Now having examined these two images can he tell us what the 'high technology" was that was used to create these and other stones at PP?

Last edited by Hans; 17th October 2017 at 12:02 PM.
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2017, 12:06 PM   #447
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,071
Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
Next you'll tell us that the Egyptians were not using stone tools?
While he's at that could you also ask him how the Sumerians were carving diorite without iron?
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2017, 04:03 PM   #448
Matthew Ellard
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,094
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
I've carved granite with a carbide tipped chisel and diamond tipped grinding tips.
The pillars at Göbekli Tepe are limestone. There are still unfinished limestone pillars in the quarry at Göbekli Tepe, showing the construction method.

I have informed you that stone tools for making pillars were found at Göbekli Tepe. You are in denial.

Are you directly denying limestone can be formed into accurate shapes with stone tools?


Here is a photo of the unfinished pillar.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Göbekli Tepe unfinished pillar.jpg (76.2 KB, 3 views)
Matthew Ellard is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2017, 04:37 PM   #449
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,071
Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
The pillars at Göbekli Tepe are limestone. There are still unfinished limestone pillars in the quarry at Göbekli Tepe, showing the construction method.

I have informed you that stone tools for making pillars were found at Göbekli Tepe. You are in denial.

Are you directly denying limestone can be formed into accurate shapes with stone tools?


Here is a photo of the unfinished pillar.
To add to that is this description of the quarry and the methods probably used to cut them out and move them.

https://tepetelegrams.wordpress.com/...-gobekli-tepe/



Quote:
he location for the quarries was not chosen without reason. The limestone surrounding Göbekli Tepe is banked, strata of about 0.60 – 1.50 m thickness are divided by fault lines. This means that you just have to dig around a work piece, not also beneath it. As limestone goes, the material at Göbekli Tepe is pretty hard and cristalline, and there are no carstic phenomena. Which means that it is a first class raw material for sculpting and masonry. Even the hardest limestone is however so soft that it can easily be worked by flint tools.
Quote:
Ethnographic records from the early 20th century report that on the Indonesian island of Nias 525 men were involved in hauling a megalith of 4 cubic meters (considerably smaller than at GT) over a distance of 3 km (considerably more than at GT) to its final location in 3 days using a wooden sledge (Schröder 1917). That such a large number of participants is not necessarily caused by the labour involved exclusively, shows another example from Indonesia. In Kodi, West Sumba, the transport of the stones themselves used for the construction of megalithic tombs is ritualised and asks for a large number of people involved as witnesses (Hoskins 1986).



Last edited by Hans; 17th October 2017 at 04:41 PM.
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2017, 09:09 PM   #450
Matthew Ellard
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,094
I now ask King of America some direct questions.

1) Can King of America explain why his flood only removed advanced metal tools, as he claimed existed, but only left behind stone tools at Göbekli Tepe, which have been used elsewhere to make straight limestone pillars?

2) Can King of America explain why his flood only removed all evidence of advanced agriculture (selective bred grain strains), as he claimed existed, but only leave behind hard evidence of the known wild strains in Göbekli Tepe's beer vats?

3) If the motifs and construction of Göbekli Tepe are found in nearby, later, archaeological sites, does King of America claim the hunter gatherers of Göbekli Tepe were also wiped out in this flood? If so, when?
Matthew Ellard is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th October 2017, 09:42 PM   #451
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,071
Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
I now ask King of America some direct questions.

1) Can King of America explain why his flood only removed advanced metal tools, as he claimed existed, but only left behind stone tools at Göbekli Tepe, which have been used elsewhere to make straight limestone pillars?

2) Can King of America explain why his flood only removed all evidence of advanced agriculture (selective bred grain strains), as he claimed existed, but only leave behind hard evidence of the known wild strains in Göbekli Tepe's beer vats?

3) If the motifs and construction of Göbekli Tepe are found in nearby, later, archaeological sites, does King of America claim the hunter gatherers of Göbekli Tepe were also wiped out in this flood? If so, when?
Yes Nevali Cori demonstrates a number of remarkable similarities to GT.

Map showing the location of GT to NC and a number of other sites that may have had a connection to GT



Pillars at Nevali Cori similar to GT


Last edited by Hans; 17th October 2017 at 09:56 PM.
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 03:12 AM   #452
King of the Americas
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
... Again, large monuments don't require advanced trchnology, they require social organisation. This has already been attained in ancient times.
Good grief...seriously, get a helmet. I am concerned for your safety.

"Organization" = agriculture.

Historians believed the we began as hunter gathers, THEN became organized into large settlements that demanded a more stable food source.

GT is evidence that 12,500 we were NOT just hunting and gathering but later reverted to it.
King of the Americas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 03:13 AM   #453
King of the Americas
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
Next you'll tell us that the Egyptians were not using stone tools?
Not just stone tools.
King of the Americas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 03:18 AM   #454
King of the Americas
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Here are two interesting images: Perhaps our self proclaimed 'expert' can tell us about them?

https://i.imgur.com/Dssmx1H.jpg

The first one just requires him to read the label.....



https://i.imgur.com/3azFq4G.jpg


Now having examined these two images can he tell us what the 'high technology" was that was used to create these and other stones at PP?
I don't know anything about those stones, their make up, or design.

Maybe you could tell me what kind of stone it was, then I could say what would be required to form or shape it.
King of the Americas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 03:19 AM   #455
King of the Americas
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
While he's at that could you also ask him how the Sumerians were carving diorite without iron?
Interesting...post some images.
King of the Americas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 03:22 AM   #456
King of the Americas
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
The pillars at Göbekli Tepe are limestone. There are still unfinished limestone pillars in the quarry at Göbekli Tepe, showing the construction method.

I have informed you that stone tools for making pillars were found at Göbekli Tepe. You are in denial.

Are you directly denying limestone can be formed into accurate shapes with stone tools?


Here is a photo of the unfinished pillar.
For the love of bacon, I said the images I posted for Puma Punku were not carved with bronze, coper, or stone hammers without a written language.

GT is evidence for civilization. Puma Punku is evidence of a vanished technology
King of the Americas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 03:24 AM   #457
King of the Americas
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Yes Nevali Cori demonstrates a number of remarkable similarities to GT.

Map showing the location of GT to NC and a number of other sites that may have had a connection to GT

https://i.imgur.com/bVGN8fu.jpg

Pillars at Nevali Cori similar to GT

https://i.imgur.com/G6zH97W.jpg
Similarities...?

Question, are the Great Pyramid and the Pyramid of the Sun similar? Does this similarity indicate a connection?

Last edited by King of the Americas; 18th October 2017 at 03:30 AM.
King of the Americas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 03:28 AM   #458
King of the Americas
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
AND...I am "King of the Americas" as in Ruler of the Western Hemisphere...not "King of America"

---

I am not saying GT was wiped out by the flood. The flood date merely shows where GT began to decline, and the monuments began their creative difficulty.

Last edited by King of the Americas; 18th October 2017 at 04:13 AM.
King of the Americas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 03:42 AM   #459
Craig B
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,841
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Good grief...seriously, get a helmet. I am concerned for your safety.

"Organization" = agriculture.

Historians believed the we began as hunter gathers, THEN became organized into large settlements that demanded a more stable food source.

GT is evidence that 12,500 we were NOT just hunting and gathering but later reverted to it.
No it isn't. Your evidence is drivel, and one of your monuments is the same age the cathedral in Constantinople, not from the ice age.

The course of progress was this. Hunting with no mass organisation > agriculture with mass organisation (and monuments) > industrial technology > advanced technology. Your notions of floods ending all agriculture and it being reinvented later is manifest tosh.
Craig B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 04:09 AM   #460
King of the Americas
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
No it isn't. Your evidence is drivel, and one of your monuments is the same age the cathedral in Constantinople, not from the ice age.

The course of progress was this. Hunting with no mass organisation > agriculture with mass organisation (and monuments) > industrial technology > advanced technology. Your notions of floods ending all agriculture and it being reinvented later is manifest tosh.
MY evidence...? I have not been to, or studied GT.

Nor is that the timeline the video discusses.

Please address the actual evidence presented here for discussion, and leave 'me' out of your rebuttal.
King of the Americas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 04:50 AM   #461
Craig B
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,841
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
MY evidence...? I have not been to, or studied GT.

Nor is that the timeline the video discusses.

Please address the actual evidence presented here for discussion, and leave 'me' out of your rebuttal.
Leqve "you" out of a rebuttal of this?
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Good grief...seriously, get a helmet. I am concerned for your safety..
Is this another of your jokes?
Craig B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 05:49 AM   #462
King of the Americas
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Leqve "you" out of a rebuttal of this? Is this another of your jokes?
Address the video's timeline, not your problem with my posts.
King of the Americas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 07:33 AM   #463
Craig B
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,841
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Address the video's timeline, not your problem with my posts.
You're just being silly now. I will address you about problems with your posts if I want, or refer them to the mods if I choose to do so.

You have mentioned the Precolumbian site at TiwanakuWP. We are told that
The name by which Tiwanaku was known to its inhabitants may have been lost as they had no written language. The ancient inhabitants of Tiwanaku are believed to have spoken the Puquina language.
With regard to Puma PunkuWP We are informed that it is a
large temple complex or monument group that is part of the Tiwanaku Site near Tiwanaku, in western Bolivia. It is believed to date to 536 AD and later
which makes it about the same age as Hagia Sophia in Constantinople, not from the Ice Age.

Now what is your source for your ice age timeline? Tell me what it is, and why you think it is important, in your own words. I never sit down and watch videos because posters tell me I should. What is there that makes you believe the video, or book, or journal, or whatever your source happens to be? That's what I require to know.
Craig B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 07:37 AM   #464
King of the Americas
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
...

Now what is your source for your ice age timeline? Tell me what it is, and why you think it is important, in your own words. I never sit down and watch videos because posters tell me I should. What is there that makes you believe the video, or book, or journal, or whatever your source happens to be? That's what I require to know.
The video that began this thread.

*How can we discuss information that you refuse to review???

Last edited by King of the Americas; 18th October 2017 at 07:41 AM.
King of the Americas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 08:25 AM   #465
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,071
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
I don't know anything about those stones, their make up, or design.

Maybe you could tell me what kind of stone it was, then I could say what would be required to form or shape it.
Really, then why did you make these statements?

Quote:
These cuts were NOT carved with chisels...
Quote:
Not Puma Punku...but also NOT carved with stone chisels...
Quote:
I can state with absolute certainty, that the cuts I posted were not carved with bronze and copper, or stone chisels.
Quote:
Whatever process or tools that shaped the stones at Puma Punku, are gone, lost to time.

The stones were NOT carved or fashioned by people without a written language.
lol

So in your statements you seem to be pretending that you DO know all about these stones - but now you don't? Tsk tsk.

The first one, is quite famous. If someone who is flouncing about making authoritative statements about Puma Punku stonework and doesn't recognize it immediately is - clearly not the expert they are pretending. The second image is of the quarry where said stones came from. Again not knowing that makes one believe you are a fellow here not for information and a discussion but instead;

A gnarly fellow who lives under a bridge and likes to waste other peoples time.

You also did not address your being wrong about how Troy was found, by Calvert not the other more famous guy.

Wanna give me a reason to continue this discussion or should I just wave goodbye to the fellow sulking under said bridge?
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 08:56 AM   #466
Tolls
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 5,229
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
The video that began this thread.

*How can we discuss information that you refuse to review???
Because You Tube vids are a pain in the arse to deal with on a point by point basis.

That's why, in general, it is preferable to provide written sources.
Or argue your own point.
Tolls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 09:39 AM   #467
Craig B
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,841
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
The video that began this thread.

*How can we discuss information that you refuse to review???
Because you can start by telling me what facts are alleged in the video and why you think the source is trustworthy.

I find this often. Very unusual ideas are evidenced by a guru on you tube. Magic energy machines and speculative archaeology are examples of subjects where videos are habitually produced by posters promoting belief in them.

But I for example would never say. "Read such and such book" without saying what it contained as evidence and why I thought it significant, and which passages are most worthy of attention. A video is not itself a source, it is a medium, and usually a very time wasting and exasperating one. With a book you can look at references on pages and paragraphs and think about what you have read. So who says what, and why should I pay attention?
Craig B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 10:05 AM   #468
King of the Americas
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Because you can start by telling me what facts are alleged in the video and why you think the source is trustworthy.

I find this often. Very unusual ideas are evidenced by a guru on you tube. Magic energy machines and speculative archaeology are examples of subjects where videos are habitually produced by posters promoting belief in them.

But I for example would never say. "Read such and such book" without saying what it contained as evidence and why I thought it significant, and which passages are most worthy of attention. A video is not itself a source, it is a medium, and usually a very time wasting and exasperating one. With a book you can look at references on pages and paragraphs and think about what you have read. So who says what, and why should I pay attention?
Watch the video or review this thread for such data.
King of the Americas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 10:06 AM   #469
King of the Americas
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Because You Tube vids are a pain in the arse to deal with on a point by point basis.

That's why, in general, it is preferable to provide written sources.
Or argue your own point.
Maybe you should take part in other discussions?

This one is intended for those who watched the attached video.
King of the Americas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 10:28 AM   #470
Craig B
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,841
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
Maybe you should take part in other discussions?

This one is intended for those who watched the attached video.
That won't work. You have to produce your argument and the evidence that sustains it, as people do when they cite written material as a source. It's not a question of not examining evidence, like people who refused to look through Galileo's telescope at the satellites of Jupiter.

If Galileo had offered them the telescope without saying how it worked, what phenomena they would see, and why Galileo thought they were significant, and why he was convinced that his optical instrument was trustworthy, then they would have been justified in telling Galileo to stick his telescope up his bum. But Galileo explained his evidence clearly and even wrote a treatise describing the whole thing.

So where is your Siderius NunciusWP?
Galileo's text ... includes descriptions, explanations, and theories of his observations.
Where are these indispensable aspects of your arguments?
Craig B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 03:15 PM   #471
King of the Americas
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
That won't work. You have to produce your argument and the evidence that sustains it, as people do when they cite written material as a source. It's not a question of not examining evidence, like people who refused to look through Galileo's telescope at the satellites of Jupiter.

If Galileo had offered them the telescope without saying how it worked, what phenomena they would see, and why Galileo thought they were significant, and why he was convinced that his optical instrument was trustworthy, then they would have been justified in telling Galileo to stick his telescope up his bum. But Galileo explained his evidence clearly and even wrote a treatise describing the whole thing.

So where is your Siderius NunciusWP?
Galileo's text ... includes descriptions, explanations, and theories of his observations.
Where are these indispensable aspects of your arguments?
My apologies sir, I have nothing further to discuss if you have not reviewed the provided material.
King of the Americas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 03:48 PM   #472
King of the Americas
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
...




lol

So in your statements you seem to be pretending that you DO know all about these stones - but now you don't? Tsk tsk.

The first one, is quite famous. If someone who is flouncing about making authoritative statements about Puma Punku stonework and doesn't recognize it immediately is - clearly not the expert they are pretending. The second image is of the quarry where said stones came from. Again not knowing that makes one believe you are a fellow here not for information and a discussion but instead;

A gnarly fellow who lives under a bridge and likes to waste other peoples time.

You also did not address your being wrong about how Troy was found, by Calvert not the other more famous guy.

Wanna give me a reason to continue this discussion or should I just wave goodbye to the fellow sulking under said bridge?
My expertise comes from my stonework, not comparative analysis of ruin sites' stone makeup.

In order to identify what tools are necessary to make a certain cut, I need to know what kind of stone it is, and what time period it is supposed to have come from.

Cutting descending squares into diorite can NOT be done with bronze, copper, or stone chisels.
King of the Americas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 04:15 PM   #473
King of the Americas
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
This stone also was not chiseled...It was cut with a very precise 'saw.'

Most likely the pedestal was carved afterwards...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Al-Naslaa-Rock-Formation3-1-1.jpg (99.0 KB, 4 views)
King of the Americas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 04:17 PM   #474
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 60,375
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Where was Atlantis?
Way Down Below The Ocean,
Where I Want To Be
She May Be....
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 07:02 PM   #475
Matthew Ellard
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,094
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
I have not been to, or studied GT.
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
I am not saying GT was wiped out by the flood. The flood date merely shows where GT began to decline.
If you haven't studied Göbekli Tepe why are you pretending there was a magical flood there? What was the date of this magic flood?

Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
I've carved granite with a carbide tipped chisel and diamond tipped grinding tips
The pillars of Göbekli Tepe are limestone. I can see why you are so totally confused about the construction techniques used at Göbekli Tepe. You can't identify different basic types of stone.
Matthew Ellard is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 07:21 PM   #476
King of the Americas
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
If you haven't studied Göbekli Tepe why are you pretending there was a magical flood there? What was the date of this magic flood?

The pillars of Göbekli Tepe are limestone. I can see why you are so totally confused about the construction techniques used at Göbekli Tepe. You can't identify different basic types of stone.
You're conflating issues.

There was nothing magical about the scablands flood. I am sure many died and were displaced. It literally marks the downfall of a global civilization that made monuments that dwarf our best efforts. Take heed, we live upon a bubble.

As for actual impossible stone removal, I was referring to Puma Punku and the ruins supposedly created without a written language and copper and bronze or stone chisels. *They were not carved...
King of the Americas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 07:26 PM   #477
Matthew Ellard
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,094
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
This stone also was not chiseled...It was cut with a very precise 'saw.
You mean the rock naturally split along a flat axis like thousands of other natural rock formations?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Rocks straight edge.jpg (62.0 KB, 4 views)
Matthew Ellard is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 07:30 PM   #478
King of the Americas
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,513
Originally Posted by Matthew Ellard View Post
You mean the rock naturally split along a flat axis like thousands of other natural rock formations?
So,, you're the funny one...
King of the Americas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 07:44 PM   #479
Matthew Ellard
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,094
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
There was nothing magical about the scablands flood.
The Scabalands Flood was in Washington USA and happened when glaciers melted 13,000 year ago. Göbekli Tepe is in modern Turkey. You are on the wrong continent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channeled_Scablands

Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
I am sure many died and were displaced.
Washington wasn't inhabited 13,000 year ago. Didn't you know?

Mesopotamia was over irrigated after the start of agricultural evolution and the salt tables rose and ended farming. It is from measuring the legacy minerals, archaeologists can date this. Yet these is no evidence of this at Göbekli Tepe, further indicating there was no advanced agriculture.

(The Old testament was by herders and is anti-agriculture and Lot's wife metaphorically turned into a pillar of salt for "looking back" at the over-irrigated and barren Jordan agricultural river plains.)
Matthew Ellard is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th October 2017, 09:09 PM   #480
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,071
Originally Posted by King of the Americas View Post
My expertise comes from my stonework, not comparative analysis of ruin sites' stone makeup.

In order to identify what tools are necessary to make a certain cut, I need to know what kind of stone it is, and what time period it is supposed to have come from.

Cutting descending squares into diorite can NOT be done with bronze, copper, or stone chisels.
I apologize but since you haven't read Protzen's appropriate materials on stone working you simply aren't worth talking to. Let me know when you've read that.

Quote:
Wanna give me a reason to continue this discussion or should I just wave goodbye to the fellow sulking under said bridge?
You have failed to do so to my satisfaction you are downgraded to the jester of Newfoundland.

Last edited by Hans; 18th October 2017 at 09:11 PM.
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:34 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.