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Old 7th January 2019, 06:24 PM   #401
GnaGnaMan
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
The hypocrisy of your statement is glaring. You made many claims that are directly contrary to the evidence and jumped to conclusions based on evidence you made up.
Are you able to support this accusation?
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Old 7th January 2019, 06:28 PM   #402
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The whole concept of a comedian getting run off the stage is not new. In the old days, it wouldn't be SJWs taking them off stage, it would be the audience pelting them with rotten vegetables. Or, hell, the manager would give them the hook.

The only difference between then and now is that they didn't have apologists on the internet whining about those poor audience members who thought it was ok.
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Old 7th January 2019, 06:43 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by GnaGnaMan View Post
Are you able to support this accusation?
Yes. You said:

Quote:
When the organizers threw him out he was arguing with an audience member that he had brought on stage.
That's not true.

Here's what the guy who made the video had to say:

Quote:
There was only one joke that got muffled laughs: how black people do not choose to be gay because that is a double jeopardy (this joke is a common joke). Aside from this, every other joke he told got a laugh from the audience.
And:

Quote:
By kicking Patel off the stage, the organizers had the counter-intuitive effect of making the entire audience feel uncomfortable. At first, I was so stunned that I didn’t really know what to think. In the video, you can see that at least the people around me were stunned. I overheard a lot of people saying things like it wasn’t even that bad or that was so rude. I found it greatly disrespectful to invite a guest to headline a show, and then tell him to leave right in the middle of his act (again, the act was similar to what was already on Youtube). After Patel got kicked off, I felt censored even though I wasn’t the person speaking because I found the jokes funny and harmless. That was the most uncomfortable, awkward I've ever felt at a Columbia event, and the only time I’ve felt that way.
So your claim he wasn't funny, or that the audience wasn't enjoying themselves is just made up by you. (Granted other people have made the same false claim.)

The video maker also stated people did support Patel not the "stooges" from the AAA:

Quote:
I was laughing hysterically, as were many people, when suddenly, during the middle of his routine, the three stooges from AAA appeared on stage out of nowhere and told him that there was a change of plans and that he had to stop. At first, everyone was confused, and it only became completely clear to me what was going on after the girl said that the tech had a dance marathon and I started recording shortly before this. There were people who were offended by the jokes, and people who were counter-offended that Nimesh was stopped.
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Last edited by qayak; 7th January 2019 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 7th January 2019, 06:46 PM   #404
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
The whole concept of a comedian getting run off the stage is not new. In the old days, it wouldn't be SJWs taking them off stage, it would be the audience pelting them with rotten vegetables. Or, hell, the manager would give them the hook.

The only difference between then and now is that they didn't have apologists on the internet whining about those poor audience members who thought it was ok.
Another difference is that in the past unfunny comedians weren't accused of being racist, homophobic, rapists, or a paedophile. Compared to that a couple of rotten tomatoes are nothing.
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Old 7th January 2019, 06:47 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
As far as I can tell, that's exactly what happened. What part did I get wrong?
He wasn't kicked out after that joke; others have pointed out that the set went on for IIRC a half hour after. The reasons given were not about a single joke either.

Your framing did not take any of that into consideration.
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Old 7th January 2019, 06:55 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by The Norseman View Post
He wasn't kicked out after that joke; others have pointed out that the set went on for IIRC a half hour after. The reasons given were not about a single joke either.
That's not true. The joke was at the 15 minute mark. His set continued for about 10 minutes before the SJWs interrupted him and the ONLY reason they gave was that joke. The woman who wrote the article later saying it was a combination of things wasn't at the show and her claim is counter to people who were at the show.
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Old 7th January 2019, 07:01 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Then let me rephrase. I think that it is reasonable for the venue to be able to stop any act and dismiss any performer for any reason.

I had assumed that you would be able to read that meaning from what I wrote, but I guess not. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify. Now, again, do you disagree?
I asked a question about should. You're answering a question about can.
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Old 7th January 2019, 07:10 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Then let me rephrase. I think that it is reasonable for the venue to be able to stop any act and dismiss any performer for any reason.
No one disputes that their right to kick him out is reasonable. It's entirely reasonable that the venue be able to stop any act and dismiss any performer for any reason.

What's not reasonable is for them to act on that power "for any reason". Only some reasons for acting on that power are reasonable. Does that make sense?
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Old 7th January 2019, 07:13 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by GnaGnaMan View Post
I heard Patel tell his side of the story on Rogan's show. I did come away with the impression that Patel had been rude to the audience.
Honestly I came away with the same impression.

Beyond that, I think we are actually talking about different things, but I'm having a hard time finding a way to express the difference between what you are talking about and what I am talking about. It's not that I disagree with what you are saying, it's that I think it's tangential to the point that I'm trying to make. Maybe I'll be able to come up with a way to express that, but while I thought it was clear from my previous posts, based on your responses I don't think it has been, and it's probably my fault.
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Old 7th January 2019, 07:52 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Yes. You said:

That's not true.

Here's what the guy who made the video had to say:

And:

So your claim he wasn't funny, or that the audience wasn't enjoying themselves is just made up by you. (Granted other people have made the same false claim.)

The video maker also stated people did support Patel not the "stooges" from the AAA:
...I asked you before to verify that the "video maker" is the same person who uploaded the video and provided the quote that you have cited.

This is the source video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN-3DByTq6k

This is the youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE_...pCGG5j2ncqgAhw

Is Veritech the source of the MTA video as well?

The people that I've quoted and cited in this thread are not anonymous. Why are you believing the only anonymous person, but not believing all the rest?
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Old 7th January 2019, 08:01 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Yes. You said:

That's not true.
I checked back with the JRE episode. The girl he was arguing with was still seated. He did not ask her on stage. I stand corrected.
I don't think that merits an accusation of lying but ok.

Quote:
Here's what the guy who made the video had to say:
Taken on board but as I said, I was going mainly by Patel's statements. He seems one of the most authoritative sources.

Quote:
So your claim he wasn't funny, or that the audience wasn't enjoying themselves is just made up by you. (Granted other people have made the same false claim.)
I'm pretty sure I did not make that claim. How would I know?
Can you show what you interpret as me making that claim?
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Old 7th January 2019, 08:04 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Honestly I came away with the same impression.

Beyond that, I think we are actually talking about different things, but I'm having a hard time finding a way to express the difference between what you are talking about and what I am talking about. It's not that I disagree with what you are saying, it's that I think it's tangential to the point that I'm trying to make. Maybe I'll be able to come up with a way to express that, but while I thought it was clear from my previous posts, based on your responses I don't think it has been, and it's probably my fault.
I have an idea what the issue may be but if I am wrong it's completely off-topic.
Does the phrase 'Sticks and stones may break my bones' resonate with what you are thinking?
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Old 7th January 2019, 08:20 PM   #413
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
No one disputes that their right to kick him out is reasonable. It's entirely reasonable that the venue be able to stop any act and dismiss any performer for any reason.

What's not reasonable is for them to act on that power "for any reason". Only some reasons for acting on that power are reasonable. Does that make sense?
I'm saying that their reason doesn't matter. Sure, they could be bigoted donkey openings, but that's largely irrelevant. If they don't want the act to go on, then the act doesn't go on. That's all there is.

It's like that time years ago when a park prohibited people from going through in Victorian period costume. Remember that? Was that reasonable? It doesn't matter. They get to make and enforce the rules. They don't want people in costume? They don't have to have them. Theatre doesn't want someone who tells bigoted jokes? They don't have to have them. It is reasonable for a venue to make rules and enforce them, and it is reasonable for a venue to stop an act and dismiss the performer for any reason.
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Old 7th January 2019, 10:29 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'm saying that their reason doesn't matter. Sure, they could be bigoted donkey openings, but that's largely irrelevant. If they don't want the act to go on, then the act doesn't go on. That's all there is.

It's like that time years ago when a park prohibited people from going through in Victorian period costume. Remember that? Was that reasonable? It doesn't matter. They get to make and enforce the rules. They don't want people in costume? They don't have to have them. Theatre doesn't want someone who tells bigoted jokes? They don't have to have them. It is reasonable for a venue to make rules and enforce them, and it is reasonable for a venue to stop an act and dismiss the performer for any reason.
Would it be reasonable for a venue to interrupt and cancel an act on ethnic grounds? “We didn’t know that you were black. Sorry, you’re going to have to get off stage!”
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Old 7th January 2019, 10:38 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Would it be reasonable for a venue to interrupt and cancel an act on ethnic grounds? “We didn’t know that you were black. Sorry, you’re going to have to get off stage!”
That is a different issue - one that would likely fall foul of antidiscrimination law. It's a long stretch between expelling someone because they're black and expelling someone because they told a bad joke.
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Old 7th January 2019, 10:50 PM   #416
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
That is a different issue - one that would likely fall foul of antidiscrimination law. It's a long stretch between expelling someone because they're black and expelling someone because they told a bad joke.
So it isn’t reasonable for a venue to stop an act and dismiss the performer for any reason after all.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 7th January 2019, 10:51 PM   #417
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'm saying that their reason doesn't matter. Sure, they could be bigoted donkey openings, but that's largely irrelevant. If they don't want the act to go on, then the act doesn't go on. That's all there is.
In what sense does it not matter? It certainly doesn't matter in the sense that, as you say, "If they don't want the act to go on, then the act doesn't go on." No one is disputing the venue's legal right to make that decision.

But every time someone makes a decision we can also decide not only if they have the power to make that decision, but also if we disagree with that decision. We might decide that they both should have the power to decide on their own, and also that they should have decided differently than they did.
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Old 7th January 2019, 10:58 PM   #418
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
So it isn’t reasonable for a venue to stop an act and dismiss the performer for any reason after all.
The age old problem with "You can not offend"

They never seem to be able to tell you in advance what is offensive
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Old 7th January 2019, 11:07 PM   #419
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
So it isn’t reasonable for a venue to stop an act and dismiss the performer for any reason after all.
Ah, a hit, a palpable hit! You caught me in a contradiction. Alas, I am done. Thus end arthwollipot!

Or maybe I was just restricting my reference to reasons that weren't already illegal.
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Old 7th January 2019, 11:13 PM   #420
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Probably been posted already but here was a behavioural contract a Russian comic got given to sign before he did a gig on a campus in London.

He obviously opted out

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-46541002

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Old 7th January 2019, 11:14 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Ah, a hit, a palpable hit! You caught me in a contradiction. Alas, I am done. Thus end arthwollipot!

Or maybe I was just restricting my reference to reasons that weren't already illegal.
Really? Would you have claimed it was reasonable before such laws (assuming they exist) were enacted?

Again, this is not a question about what venues can get away with it is really what you as a reasonable person would think are reasonable grounds for cutting an act. If you worked at a venue and the boss said, “I want that guy off stage!” Would it only bother you to know whether you were doing something legal and if so then you would have no qualms about following the boss’s orders?
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 7th January 2019, 11:21 PM   #422
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Really? Would you have claimed it was reasonable before such laws (assuming they exist) were enacted?
Irrelevant.

Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Again, this is not a question about what venues can get away with it is really what you as a reasonable person would think are reasonable grounds for cutting an act.
I may be a reasonable person, but I have absolutely zero experience in comedy and don't even particularly enjoy it most of the time, and very little experience in theatre in general beyond some backstage work when I was younger. I don't have the knowledge or understanding of the pressures that stage managers and venue bookers work under. Sure, I could ignorantly speculate and project my own needs and desires on the manager at the time, but that's all it would be. Perhaps the theatre had received multiple complaints about comedians telling bad jokes over the previous few weeks, and the manager decided that allowing it to continue would hurt the theatre's revenues. I don't know. Just because I can't come up with a reasonable explanation doesn't mean there isn't one.

Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
If you worked at a venue and the boss said, “I want that guy off stage!” Would it only bother you to know whether you were doing something legal and if so then you would have no qualms about following the boss’s orders?
If the boss was going to fire me if I didn't, hell yeah I'd follow the boss's orders, unless that order was telling me to do something illegal. Ending someone's act and kicking them offstage is not illegal.
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Old 7th January 2019, 11:27 PM   #423
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Irrelevant.

I may be a reasonable person, but I have absolutely zero experience in comedy and don't even particularly enjoy it most of the time, and very little experience in theatre in general beyond some backstage work when I was younger. I don't have the knowledge or understanding of the pressures that stage managers and venue bookers work under. Sure, I could ignorantly speculate and project my own needs and desires on the manager at the time, but that's all it would be. Perhaps the theatre had received multiple complaints about comedians telling bad jokes over the previous few weeks, and the manager decided that allowing it to continue would hurt the theatre's revenues. I don't know. Just because I can't come up with a reasonable explanation doesn't mean there isn't one.

If the boss was going to fire me if I didn't, hell yeah I'd follow the boss's orders, unless that order was telling me to do something illegal. Ending someone's act and kicking them offstage is not illegal.
Your reasoning earlier wasn't specific to comedy.

Is it?

Or do you think a venue can just shut a concert down if they decide they don't like the musical genre of a band?
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Old 8th January 2019, 12:15 AM   #424
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Your reasoning earlier wasn't specific to comedy.

Is it?

Or do you think a venue can just shut a concert down if they decide they don't like the musical genre of a band?
Exactly! Is it reasonable for an art gallery to invite a seascape painter to do a show and then shut it down because the artist was a seascape painter? Would it make it better if the gallery then said it was because the artist was racist but then later changed it to say they didn't know that's what the artist did? Would it then be okay for a bunch of people on the ISF to defend the gallery's actions?
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Old 8th January 2019, 12:23 AM   #425
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Irrelevant.
Why?

Quote:
Just because I can't come up with a reasonable explanation doesn't mean there isn't one.
This reveals that you do know what is meant by reasonable in this context - something that is justifiable for being fair, appropriate and proportionate - as opposed to your own definition of reasonable which is doing anything in your power that you damn well please as long as it’s legal.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 8th January 2019, 12:32 AM   #426
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Exactly! Is it reasonable for an art gallery to invite a seascape painter to do a show and then shut it down because the artist was a seascape painter? Would it make it better if the gallery then said it was because the artist was racist but then later changed it to say they didn't know that's what the artist did? Would it then be okay for a bunch of people on the ISF to defend the gallery's actions?
It would be like a concert venue hiring Metallica for a night.

Headlining them in promo's

Setting up the stage

And then kicking them off halfway through "Enter Sandman", as it's about a sleep monster and they take it on themselves to decide it might give the audience nightmares.
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 8th January 2019, 12:44 AM   #427
Roboramma
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
That is a different issue - one that would likely fall foul of antidiscrimination law. It's a long stretch between expelling someone because they're black and expelling someone because they told a bad joke.
How about on political grounds. If, for instance, it was found that the performer was a former member of the Communist Party, and the venue decided that they didn't want any damn commies telling jokes in their venue?

Would you consider that to be a reasonable decision?
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Old 8th January 2019, 01:15 AM   #428
dann
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
I dated a woman, dated her twice actually, who was completely into being raped. And I don't mean the "tie her up with a silk scarve and pleasure her" rape, I mean the "duct tape her up, beat her, choke her into unconsciousness" kind.

Not my bag and my mistake was thinking great sex every night with multiple orgasms would satisfy her. It did briefly but she was soon back to begging for the rapongs.

Nor my bag. And in your situation, I would have dumped her immediately. I had a girlfriend who wanted me to say disparaging and humiliating things to her during sex. I didn't feel like doing it, and it would have ruined the sex for me. Not for her, obviously.
However, you seem to confuse fantasy role playing with the actual thing: She asked you to have a certain kind of sex so it could under no circumstances be rape! (Unless she was under age, which she obviously wasn't, in which case it would have been statutory rape.) And by the way, it's the favourite excuse used by rapists: 'She was asking for it!' No, she wasn't, and they don't usually mean it literally. What rapists usually mean when they say this is: 'She turned me on so she must have wanted me to rape her.' (And I'm not saying that there aren't cases where a woman literally asks for it, later regrets, and then accuses a guy of being a rapist.)
Similarly, in my case, it wouldn't have been abuse: When she wanted me to say certain things to her during sex, she didn't actually want me to think and mean those things, nor would she have wanted to hear me say those things to her out of bed.
Like I already said: role playing! (And I wasn't into that kind of pretense.)

Quote:
By your standards, not only is she a misogynist she is also a creator of rapists! She had three children, two male, one female. I suppose you think that at least tge boys are rapists and the girl a probable rape creator in her own right.

No, not at all! And again, you need to consider carefully what actually happened! It wasn't rape. And I have no idea why you suddenly involve her children in this! Did they have anything to do with this? Were they in the bedroom with you? Did she raise them to be misogynists, rapists or victims or rape?
Your thinking is neither here nor there!

Quote:
The joke is funny because it is predicated on older women's tendency to complain that men are only interested in youth.

No, it's not. It's predicated on the idea that young women are attractive and older women aren't, so the rapist is an idiot for not raping attractive young women instead of unattractive old ones.
(He may also have continued the joke along the lines that old women want to be raped and should be grateful when they are. Another misogynistic, rapist apologetic, excuse for a joke. But again: I don't remember if that's how it continued, and I'm not going to look it up.)

Quote:
From there it's funny on several levels; rapists not getting the memo, older women not happy about that kind of equality, etc.

Yeah, right! There aren't any "levels" to the 'joke', unfortunately. It's as simple and one-dimensional as I have described it. Ron Tomkins can probably give you the link to the youtube video.

Quote:
Maybe not your taste, and not Carlin's best, but it is a well crafted joke.

I think most comedians nowadays would disagree with you, but I'm not going to ask them. You seem to have misinterpreted the joke to the same extent that you misinterpreted what went on with your former girlfriend who was into rape role playing.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th January 2019, 01:22 AM   #429
dann
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
So you think Jefferies was talking about material he did in 2016-2017 as his "earlier" material that he aged out of and not the stuff he did when he first got into comedy?The rape joke segment I posted was from 2016.

Yes, in view of the Me-Too movement and the many cases of celebrity sexual coercion that have come to light in the meantime, I wouldn't consider that unlikely, but I don't know. You'd have to ask him.

Quote:
I think you are dreaming.

Dream on, qayak. You seem to misinterpret comedy and comedians the same way you misinterpret rape fantasies and raising children ...
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th January 2019, 01:51 AM   #430
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
The joke is funny because it is predicated on older women's tendency to complain that men are only interested in youth. From there it's funny on several levels; rapists not getting the memo, older women not happy about that kind of equality, etc.

Maybe not your taste, and not Carlin's best, but it is a well crafted joke.
Ugh. I haven't seen a clip but from your description I don't see anything funny about it at any level. And I'm not in the business of being easily offended.

ETA: Started the clip. Did not finish. It wasn't funny.

Last edited by Minoosh; 8th January 2019 at 01:56 AM.
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Old 8th January 2019, 03:11 AM   #431
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Probably been posted already but here was a behavioural contract a Russian comic got given to sign before he did a gig on a campus in London.

He obviously opted out

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-46541002
Wow. How will that snowflake survive in the real world?

Imagine if he gets invited to family or corporate venues.

Or imagine that he comes back from the west with a gay joke. [russian accent]"I was in west and saw man kissing man. Both were police and did not beat each other up!"
They'll put him in prison and throw away the key.
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Old 8th January 2019, 03:26 AM   #432
dann
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Originally Posted by GnaGnaMan View Post
Wow. How will that snowflake survive in the real world?

Imagine if he gets invited to family or corporate venues.

I saw it, too!
(And I like the way you turn the snowflake argument against him, the poor victim of censorschip! )

Quote:
Or imagine that he comes back from the west with a gay joke. [russian accent]"I was in west and saw man kissing man. Both were police and did not beat each other up!"
They'll put him in prison and throw away the key.

No, I don't think so. In Russia, they would probably consider it to be a joke that shows how utterly depraved and decadent they are in the West!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th January 2019, 03:30 AM   #433
cullennz
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Originally Posted by GnaGnaMan View Post
Wow. How will that snowflake survive in the real world?

Imagine if he gets invited to family or corporate venues.

Or imagine that he comes back from the west with a gay joke. [russian accent]"I was in west and saw man kissing man. Both were police and did not beat each other up!"
They'll put him in prison and throw away the key.
Interesting take on it.

a) There is no mention of him making gay jokes

b) He didn't bother signing as he didn't want to sign this.

Not sure what "family or corporate" venues you go to.

Fairly boring by the sounds

Don't see why you don't applaud his taking into account the peoples " sensitivities

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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

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Old 8th January 2019, 03:39 AM   #434
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Because you obviously didn't read the link

Quote:
"I'm from Russia, I joke about Novichok and I joke about the fact that I'm Russian and my wife is Ukrainian - that's a whole big issue right now," he says.

"I make fun of British people and that's a kind of 'Hey I'm a foreigner and that's what I've noticed about you guys'."

Still, he's certain that offence can be found in almost any comedian's set.

"If you choose to find offence then there's plenty of room to do so," he says.

"I didn't turn down this gig because I'm some racist, homophobic, xenophobic, ableist comedian. I turned down this gig because if you sign a contract like that, you're exposing yourself to someone's bad interpretation.

"If someone writes a contract like that, the chances are that they will be hypersensitive, vigilant and trying to catch you out. I'm just not interested in that."
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 8th January 2019, 04:04 AM   #435
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Interesting take on it.

a) There is no mention of him making gay jokes
Whoosh?

Quote:
Not sure what "family or corporate" venues you go to.

Fairly boring by the sounds
The kind where people avoid swearing and don't tell off-color jokes. I didn't know that there was another kind. Do you have examples?

Quote:
Don't see why you don't applaud his taking into account the peoples " sensitivities
He was offered a job and turned it down. I don't see why that's praise- or newsworthy. If someone refuses to work at a fast food joint because they hate the uniform I wouldn't applaud that either. People make these choices all the time and I support their right to do so.
I think there's way more people who'd condemn that as lazy and entitled than would applaud that choice.
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Old 8th January 2019, 04:12 AM   #436
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Originally Posted by GnaGnaMan View Post
Whoosh?


The kind where people avoid swearing and don't tell off-color jokes. I didn't know that there was another kind. Do you have examples?


He was offered a job and turned it down. I don't see why that's praise- or newsworthy. If someone refuses to work at a fast food joint because they hate the uniform I wouldn't applaud that either. People make these choices all the time and I support their right to do so.
I think there's way more people who'd condemn that as lazy and entitled than would applaud that choice.
You brought up gay jokes from nowhere. This is your point


I don't even know family functions that hire comedians. Corporates I have been to have not been so sensitive.

It is news worthy because it shows how stupid campuses have got. To the point of demanding signatures on behavioural contracts.

With big lists of " 'ISM" and no detail about what jokes are bad "ISM" and not just highlighting everyday differences between people
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by cullennz; 8th January 2019 at 04:13 AM.
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Old 8th January 2019, 05:24 AM   #437
dann
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I don't even know family functions that hire comedians.

It's not that unusual. You should invite this guy for your next family function!

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 8th January 2019, 05:37 AM   #438
GnaGnaMan
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
You brought up gay jokes from nowhere. This is your point
I made a joke about the hypocrisy of snowflake criers. You don't think it's funny, let's move on.

Quote:
It is news worthy because it shows how stupid campuses have got. To the point of demanding signatures on behavioural contracts.

With big lists of " 'ISM" and no detail about what jokes are bad "ISM" and not just highlighting everyday differences between people
You're out of the loop. Employee code of conducts are a widespread. It's not a campus thing.
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Old 8th January 2019, 05:46 AM   #439
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Ugh. I haven't seen a clip but from your description I don't see anything funny about it at any level. And I'm not in the business of being easily offended.

ETA: Started the clip. Did not finish. It wasn't funny.
Same here. It's too peachy. He's telling us about how we should react to things. Works great if you are primed to agree with the author but coming from this thread, I am primed to be critical of people telling me what to do and feel.

ETA: The bit about the gerontophiliac rapist is particularly unfunny. Replace the old woman with a man and you just have a senior being astonished that someone is gay and would prefer to rape a man over a woman.
If you know about gerontophilia it's just an old man on stage who grew up in more sheltered times.
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Old 8th January 2019, 06:04 AM   #440
dann
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On Jokes (the actually funny ones) and the People Who Don't Get Them

According to Wikipedia, this is what a comedian is:
Quote:
A comedian or comic is a person who seeks to entertain an audience by making them laugh. This might take many forms including jokes, satirical observations, amusing situations, acting foolish (as in slapstick) or employing prop comedy. A comedian who addresses an audience directly is called a stand-up comedian. Other practises include the sitcom, sketch comedy and improv genres.

I've never done stand up, but I have some experience in the field of comedy from writing (and occasionally performing in minor roles) in school plays. When I wrote school plays, I often discussed the jokes with my (high school) students (16-19-year-olds) because I knew that some jokes would get laughs even though they weren't really, truly, funny. I explained to my students why that was so in order to get their feedback on whether or not we should keep that kind of jokes in the plays. We kept some and eliminated others.
Nowadays, when I watch comedians perform, I can sometimes tell when they don't really feel comfortable with some of the jokes they tell: They appear to know that the jokes will make many people laugh even though they aren't really, truly, funny.

So what's the difference? Some people in this forum will probably consider this to be the definiton of a good joke: It makes people laugh, i.e. if it has the effect of making people laugh, then it's a joke.
I tend to disagree:
I remember people in ISF discussions about the definition of pornography using the same criterion: If somebody can use it for masturbation, then it is pornography. And my counter argument, that a shoe doesn't become a hammer because you can use it to drive in nails, didn't sway them at all: They will go to their graves insisting that a Sears catalogue was pornography if it was used as such. Whatever ...

I recently saw a performance by a group of comedians where one of them got a lot of laughs from the audience by calling a Danish Conservative politician and Minister for Foreigners and Integration Inger Støjsender. It's a pun on her actual family name, Støjberg: støj = noise (Støjsender = noise maker or maybe jamming device). And the joke is just as unfunny as Trump's nicknames for people he doesn't like.
Now, it's not that I like Inger Støjberg, on the contrary, and I would have appreciated a good joke about her, but this wasn't one, and the comedian looked embarrassed about the joke, and it probably didn't help him that he looked me straight in the eyes at the time, probably because I was one of the very few in the audience who didn't laugh. (Some of my friends did ... and very loud!)

In order to make it clear what I mean, let me tell you two Danish jokes, one racist, the other one anti-racist (and rather subtle). It makes my task so much easier that the two jokes are actually one and the same:

Quote:
A young boy is at the age where he asks his parents questions all the time.
- Dad, how come I'm so dark compared to the other kids?
- Son, that's so you can better hide in the thicket of the trees and shrubbery without being noticed by the prey.
- OK, Dad, so how come my eyes are so big and round?
- My son, that's so you can better spot the prey on the savannah.
- I see, Dad. But how come my legs are so long?
- Son, when you're hiding in the shadows and have spotted the prey, you can use your long legs to run out on the savannah and catch it.
- So how come my arms are so long?
- Son, that's for holding on the prey when you've caught up with it on the savannah.
- But Dad, how come my mouth is so big?
- My son, that's so you can better tear out the throat of the prey when you've caught it and are holding on to it with your long arms.
- But, but, but ... Dad! How come I live in Copenhagen?!

My guess is that it started as a racist joke with the very unfunny punchline meaning that foreigners, 'darkies', unlike pale-skinned Danes, don't belong here, but a(n actually) funny thing happened when I told it to my anti-racist friends: They laughed because the son's final question reveals the stupidity of the father’s racist, socio-biological explanations to his son.

Notice that I’m not objecting to rape jokes. I’m objecting to very bad rape jokes, and Carlin’s is one of those, which qayak seems to be aware of when he admits that it’s “not Carlin's best,” but it sure as hell also isn’t ”a well crafted joke.”

I guess that the snowflake comedians won’t survive for long in the comedy business anyway, but those who do will have to adapt to the more subtle tastes of modern, well-educated audience. They should consider it a challenge to do so! Jim Jefferies seems to think so, too! It shouldn’t be too difficult for a professional comedian to come up with a joke about the misogynistic old-or-unattractive-women-want-to-be-raped platitude. It also shouldn’t be too difficult for them to make a joke about the black-people-were-made-to-stay-in-Africa stupidity. I mean, what are all the white descendants of Europeans doing there?

Yesterday, a Danish journalist was actually reported to the police for racism by conservative snowflakes because she had described the colour of Danes as ”the colour of pigs”! In the meantime, she has apologized, even though we actually are the colour of (Danish) pigs! (Well, currently I’m not since I just returned from the Canaries, but the rest of the winter I usually am.)
A Danish family on the beach and a Danish pig. (They have obviously spent some time in the sun, otherwise they'd be much paler, both the people and the pig!)

Man, maybe I should become a comedian in my next life. There’ good material everywhere, and yet some of the professional comedians resort to the tired old clichés, but, of course, some of the ISF’ers appear to be the grateful audience of those unfunny jokes!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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