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Old 17th December 2018, 04:38 PM   #81
tyr_13
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Nominated.
Thanks (and to the others with kind words in the thread).

Quote:
The problem here is that the conservative/reactionary faction of society has traded on snowflakism for the better part of a century, they've been professionally offended by the wrong coloured people sharing their space, by the wrongly-oriented people teaching schools, the wrong-gendered people sharing their bathrooms, by the wrong words in song lyrics, by the wrong pictures in magazines and home videos, by the wrong holiday sentiments, wrong belief systems, wrong clothing styles, and wrong movements of little green pieces of paper.

They've defined their lives around being offended by anything and everything, and using that offendedness to control people and culture. Now they're faced with another group whose beliefs and lifestyles are anathema to the conservatives, but who play the game much better and more effectively; and they're unable to cope with that fact.
I read something on Facebook quoting a Tweet responding to a Tweet (just to really get the hackles up of the old people) and it made a lot of sense. The original Tweet was, "The see-sawing between "we need more civility" and "we need less political correctness" is really something to behold." The response was, ""Civility" = treating white people with respect. "Political correctness" = treating anyone else with respect."

Honestly it all depends on the behavior one is demanding be done in order to 'respect' that puts it all in perspective too.

Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Side note: one of my standard answers has been "I woke up breathing today, so I figured I should go ahead and participate."

A prior dodge, "I'm here," would often get an ill reception.
"I'm here" was very popular in retail with coworkers, but you had to be careful with the public. Tone makes that one.

One I still get a lot is, 'how are you always smiling?' or something like that. My answer is, 'the acting classes helped'. They think it's a joke.
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Old 17th December 2018, 04:46 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
I read something on Facebook quoting a Tweet responding to a Tweet (just to really get the hackles up of the old people) and it made a lot of sense. The original Tweet was, "The see-sawing between "we need more civility" and "we need less political correctness" is really something to behold." The response was, ""Civility" = treating white people with respect. "Political correctness" = treating anyone else with respect."

I think that highlighted part is a little incorrect. I think the more accurate version of that would be "Civility" = Treating cis-het Christian white men with deference, vs. "Political Correctness" = Treating anyone else with simple human decency.
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Old 17th December 2018, 04:49 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
I think that highlighted part is a little incorrect. I think the more accurate version of that would be "Civility" = Treating cis-het Christian white men with deference vs. "Political Correctness" = Treating anyone else with simple human decency.
Yeah, I agree. The behavior being requested to meet those standards is disparate in an extreme way.
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Old 20th December 2018, 08:41 AM   #84
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The comedian was on Joe Rogan to talk about the incident.

I was listening to it in the background and didn't really get the whole story. But it seems at one point he was saying how he was a generation older than the audience (true) therefore he knows comedy and what is offensive much better than anyone in the room (huh?!).

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Old 20th December 2018, 06:02 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
The comedian was on Joe Rogan to talk about the incident.

I was listening to it in the background and didn't really get the whole story. But it seems at one point he was saying how he was a generation older than the audience (true) therefore he knows comedy and what is offensive much better than anyone in the room (huh?!).

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I feel a professional comic knows comedy better than a bunch of event organizers (just as event organizers understand organizing events better than a comic).

The comic's point of view in written form: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/07/o...-offstage.html
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Old 20th December 2018, 06:07 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
I feel a professional comic knows comedy better than a bunch of event organizers (just as event organizers understand organizing events better than a comic).

The comic's point of view in written form: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/07/o...-offstage.html
If I don't find something funny, no amount of a comedian telling me "It's funny!" is going to convince me to laugh.
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Old 20th December 2018, 06:14 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
If I don't find something funny, no amount of a comedian telling me "It's funny!" is going to convince me to laugh.
Very true, but irrelevant. If I don't like how my house looks after being painted it doesn't mean that the pro painters still don't know more about painting than me. I don't like Justin Bieber, but he still knows more about pop music than me.
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Old 20th December 2018, 07:23 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
Very true, but irrelevant. If I don't like how my house looks after being painted it doesn't mean that the pro painters still don't know more about painting than me. I don't like Justin Bieber, but he still knows more about pop music than me.
A painter, a musician, a comedian, or whatever aren't entitled to have people praise their work just because "they know more".

Subjectivity is an actual thing.
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Old 20th December 2018, 07:26 PM   #89
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Since when are jokes supposed to be appropriate?
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Old 20th December 2018, 07:37 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Since when are jokes supposed to be appropriate?
Me: “Who do I have to screw to get some turkey round here, Mum?”

Mum: “You’ve ruined Christmas!”
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 20th December 2018, 08:10 PM   #91
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I'm not OK with the whole yank off stage thing. Let him do his set and yank off to the audience.

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Old 20th December 2018, 09:02 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Since when are jokes supposed to be appropriate?
That's not the point. You tell a joke you think is appropriate. Your audience thinks it's inappropriate. Your joke falls flat. You failed at your job.

Do they still have to laugh, because you are entitled to a positive response?

Because you are the Comedy God shining brightly upon the stage, and they are the unwashed masses and they need to bask in your Comedy God glory, because if they do not find you funny, they are horrible SJW tumblerinas out to destroy the white man and western civilization?

That honestly is what we are dealing with here. (((Cultural Marxism))) !!!eleventy!!1111
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Old 20th December 2018, 09:13 PM   #93
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"I never feel offended, so why should anyone else ever feel offended? Everyone should be exactly like me or they are weak losers!"
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Old 20th December 2018, 09:48 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
A painter, a musician, a comedian, or whatever aren't entitled to have people praise their work just because "they know more".

Subjectivity is an actual thing.
Who said anything about praise? Admitting someone knows more about something just because they do is not praise.
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Old 20th December 2018, 09:52 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
Who said anything about praise? Admitting someone knows more about something just because they do is not praise.
Right, but we're not talking about a technical understanding of the principles of comedy, we're talking about whether something's funny or not.
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Old 20th December 2018, 10:01 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Right, but we're not talking about a technical understanding of the principles of comedy, we're talking about whether something's funny or not.
And I agreed with you that subjective things are subjective, but it's irrelevant to why angrysob said "huh?" about a comic saying he knows comedy better than non-comics, which is all that I was addressing. Other posters here added on the strawmen about people giving praise or being forced to laugh because a comic said they should.

Again, I don't like Justin Bieber but if he said he knew pop music better than accountants I would have to agree with him, while still not liking his music.
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Old 20th December 2018, 10:09 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post

Again, I don't like Justin Bieber but if he said he knew pop music better than accountants I would have to agree with him, while still not liking his music.
That's still irrelevant to whoever is listening to his music.

You either like it, or you don't.

Same thing with comedy. It doesn't make you laugh? Well, then it's just not funny to you. You find it offensive? Well, then you find it offensive, and you are allowed to tell the world that. And if the world agrees with you? Then that so-called comedian gets no more work.

The free market doing it's thing. Reality is a biatch.
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Old 20th December 2018, 10:10 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
That's still irrelevant to whoever is listening to his music.

You either like it, or you don't.
Yes, subjective things are subjective. But that's not what I was addressing.
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Old 20th December 2018, 10:23 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
Yes, subjective things are subjective. But that's not what I was addressing.
Then what are you addressing? Spell it out clearly. I am open to the possibility that I'm just misunderstanding your point here.
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Old 20th December 2018, 10:28 PM   #100
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See post 96.
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Old 20th December 2018, 10:30 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
See post 96.
That doesn't really explain anything at all.

I honestly want to get your point here, but that post does not give it. Sorry.
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Old 20th December 2018, 10:36 PM   #102
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Ugh.

"but it's irrelevant to why angrysob said "huh?" about a comic saying he knows comedy better than non-comics, which is all that I was addressing."
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Old 20th December 2018, 10:41 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
Ugh.

"but it's irrelevant to why angrysob said "huh?" about a comic saying he knows comedy better than non-comics, which is all that I was addressing."
But that's not what the comic said. The comic said that he knew what was offensive better than the audience did. But he doesn't get to decide that.
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Old 20th December 2018, 10:42 PM   #104
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Angrysob: "therefore he knows comedy and what is offensive much better than anyone in the room (huh?!)."

I was addressing the "knows comedy" part.
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Old 20th December 2018, 10:43 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
Ugh.

"but it's irrelevant to why angrysob said "huh?" about a comic saying he knows comedy better than non-comics, which is all that I was addressing."
Still not making a point. But whatever, I guess?

If you have a point to make, you should be able to just spell it out for us.

"A diver knows more about diving than a carpenter" adds nothing to the debate and leaves us wondering what in the actual **** you are on about.

"Ugh", indeed...
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Old 20th December 2018, 10:45 PM   #106
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It's pretty cut and dry, actually. Not sure why it's throwing you.
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Old 20th December 2018, 10:50 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
It's pretty cut and dry, actually. Not sure why it's throwing you.
Then why is it so difficult for you to just spell it out?

If it's so easy, just make your point in one single sentence, or paragraph, or whatever.

That really shouldn't be too much to ask. Just clarify your point. Easy, right?
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Old 20th December 2018, 10:54 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Then why is it so difficult for you to just spell it out?

If it's so easy, just make your point in one single sentence, or paragraph, or whatever.

That really shouldn't be too much to ask. Just clarify your point. Easy, right?
No, it's not hard. Max took the statement by angrysoba that the comedian knows comedy and what is offensive better than his audience, and chose to focus on only the irrelevant part of that statement, which was that the comedian knows comedy better than other people, rather than on the significant part, which is that the comedian knows what is offensive better than other people.
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Old 20th December 2018, 10:59 PM   #109
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I figured it was obvious that offensive is subjective, and did not need to be pointed out. I was incorrect obviously.
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Old 20th December 2018, 11:04 PM   #110
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nevermind
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Old 20th December 2018, 11:07 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Max_mang View Post
I figured it was obvious that offensive is subjective, and did not need to be pointed out. I was incorrect obviously.
I'm just asking you to clarify what you're saying. I have no idea if I agree with you or not, because I have no idea what you are trying to say.
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Old 21st December 2018, 08:30 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
That's not the point. You tell a joke you think is appropriate. Your audience thinks it's inappropriate. Your joke falls flat. You failed at your job.

Do they still have to laugh, because you are entitled to a positive response?
No, they don't have to laugh. You're totally right: If a joke falls flat and they don't laugh, the comedian didn't do a good job making a joke that's funny.

That's not what we're arguing here though. A comedian got kicked off in the middle of his set for "being offensive", when what he was saying wasn't even offensive in the first place (Since, anyone who understands the joke, know that the joke is not making fun of gay and black people, but rather quite the contrary, it's defending them)

Now the only question is: Did you also not understand the joke? I don't think you could try to explain us what the joke was about.
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Old 21st December 2018, 08:40 AM   #113
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You guys are being offensive, get out of this thread!
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Old 21st December 2018, 08:46 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
You guys are being offensive, get out of this thread!
I am offended by this post! Get out!!
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Old 26th December 2018, 05:23 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
That's not what we're arguing here though. A comedian got kicked off in the middle of his set for "being offensive", when what he was saying wasn't even offensive in the first place
..."offense" is subjective. And as you weren't at the performance, you aren't in a position to judge whether or not the performance was offensive or not.

Quote:
(Since, anyone who understands the joke, know that the joke is not making fun of gay and black people, but rather quite the contrary, it's defending them)
You are making the mistake of assuming that single joke was the reason why he was asked to leave the stage.

Originally Posted by reappropriate
Mainstream media has focused on a joke that Patel told during his set, but it has utterly failed to report other important details. For example: about 30 minutes into Nimesh Patel’s set, he started badgering a woman in the audience about what her parents did for a living. She responded multiple times that she had nothing to share about her father because she hasn’t been in contact with him for a while. To the audience it was apparent that she was uncomfortable with the attention and the invasion of her privacy. Yet, Patel continued to push, even despite the growing silence that took over the audience.

...

Patel persisted in asking multiple inappropriate questions of this audience member, like “Why don’t you know [your father]? Why aren’t you talking to him?” An attempt at comedy quickly soured into unprovoked personal harassment of a student.

...

It was at that moment when the three show directors from Columbia University’s Asian American Alliance (AAA) went on stage and let Patel know that his set was ending early.
More at the link.

http://reappropriate.co/2018/12/im-a...sCaaJxDV4f7nW8
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Old 26th December 2018, 07:28 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
..."offense" is subjective. And as you weren't at the performance, you aren't in a position to judge whether or not the performance was offensive or not.



You are making the mistake of assuming that single joke was the reason why he was asked to leave the stage.



More at the link.

http://reappropriate.co/2018/12/im-a...sCaaJxDV4f7nW8
Obviously, the student who didn't want to talk about her father just doesn't understand comedy as well as the guy on stage does.
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Old 26th December 2018, 08:54 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
You are making the mistake of assuming that single joke was the reason why he was asked to leave the stage.



More at the link.

http://reappropriate.co/2018/12/im-a...sCaaJxDV4f7nW8
Wow - it sounds like the single joke wasn't even A reason why he was asked to leave the stage. This account completely flips the story on its head - he was asked to leave because he was in the middle of harassing an audience member with bizarre personal questions.
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Old 26th December 2018, 09:16 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
..."offense" is subjective. And as you weren't at the performance, you aren't in a position to judge whether or not the performance was offensive or not.
Neither are you, by that logic. But I'm basing myself on the information given by the comedian himself when interviewed and asked about the incident. That is as accurate as an account that someone who wasn't there, can aspire to have.
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Old 26th December 2018, 10:56 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Neither are you, by that logic.
...have I made a judgement on whether or not something was "offensive?" I'm not in the position to make that judgement: so I haven't. So my logic appears to be holding up.

Quote:
But I'm basing myself on the information given by the comedian himself when interviewed and asked about the incident. That is as accurate as an account that someone who wasn't there, can aspire to have.
Patel wasn't the only person who was there. We have other accounts. We can not only "aspire" to listening to those other accounts, we can actually listen to those other accounts. You are welcome to uncritically accept the narrative provided by the "aggrieved" party. I won't judge you for that. But the very least you could do is acknowledge that maybe Patel isn't in the best position to give an "unbiased version" of what happened.
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Old 27th December 2018, 09:21 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by banquetbear View Post
You are making the mistake of assuming that single joke was the reason why he was asked to leave the stage.

More at the link.

http://reappropriate.co/2018/12/im-a...sCaaJxDV4f7nW8

Yeah, events make a lot more sense in that context. Patel's comments on the incident are much more clearly self-serving nonsense, and his actions rather disturbing in light of the bigger context.
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